OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: ss2fly on May 04, 2009, 02:39:39 pm
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Hi Guys, I have a 1972 TS125T that my father bought new and later gave to me... I have recently rebuilt the origional engine using the NOS parts i had in stock, goes beautifully too I might add..
I still have a NOS set of cases and barrel and I have decided to use this as a basis for another engine to fit in the existing frame for some more fun ;D
What i want to know from you lot are ALL the options available to me using the cases at a minimum....
What it will need is the following:
RETAIN FULL LIGHTING CAPABILITY AS i USE IT ON THE ROAD AS WELL AS THE DIRT.
USE PERIOD PARTS ( AS CLOSE TO AS POSSIBLE...)
GO HARD!!!!!
Thats about it.
Pros and cons for RM / TM top end, piston, pipe etc...???
What is the deal with primary drive swaps and all that other stuff people seem to go on about???
The engine is a 4 stud head with piston port control NOT reed control.
I am leaning towards a TM barrel, head and piston with the TM hop-up carb I have mated to a TM pipe of some description....
I dont think a RM top end will fit as the TS is ony a 4 stud set up???
What do you guys think? I am open to any option for this rebuild but i do want it to go HARD!!!! (for a 70's 125...) I dont race it but i do LOVE riding it.
Thanks
Andy.
I
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TM barrel is the way to go and there are readily available aftermarket pipes too. Use a 28mm carb, forget about primary swaps just fit a TM gearbox (very little difference to TS box but uses the same shafts) most TM parts are "bolt on fit" . See Doc's projects for a little info and inspiration.
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a TS125 T is a 1980 model
a 72 TS125 is 'J' model
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LWC, ordinarily you would be right but the TS125T was a 1972 model as well. It came to NZ too, I think it was a Japanese market model. It had chrome guards (front one low-mounted) and a different heat shield on the exhaust, horizontal slots rather than the big holes on the J (and L etc). I remember two colours, gold with black tank stripe and orange with white. So SS may well be right. Just my 2c worth...
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yup the 1972 TS125T is the rarest of all the TS125's. An inbetween model made for mainly the JDM in low numbers compared to the other models. The differences mainly due to Japans registration requirements at the time I believe. Very few came to Australia as we had the regular J model also but my neighbor as a kid had the 125T model. It would almost be worth restoring and buy another one to do with as you please. All the TM stuff will bolt on and simply swapping the cylinder, head, carb, exhaust, ignition from a TM and fit a pod style airfilter will have it singing. The internal gear ratios swap over also and the with the straightcut primary drive from the RM125 you will need to swap as whole assemble (primary gear and clutch basket) the kickstart gear is internal and doesn't run the idler gear to the primary drive like a lot of other models. Good luck with the project, I love any of the TS series but the pre'75 125's and 250's are my favorites 8)
(http://m4vn6w.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p6AF6SCY-0iGzI5GTCWxMMZTGpWH5ovAmZneQWspjZPw-1yKW7bGckt7LxLHKTR7D6GJYttKhtf3HmDdVodsQ9w/1971%20TS125T.jpg)
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i never knew that. How many were made? would it be worthwhile to keep it all original then?
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Hey, it is faintly reassuring that I was right and not having a senior moment ;D
There are quite a few of those TS125Ts in NZ.
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Doc, you are right on the money as usual! ;)
I have enough parts to virtually restore it and Im about to start soon.
I think I will go the TM route as it all bolts up.
I will fit a TM barrel and head with a new piston etc.... also the 28mm carb i have and a good pipe (vintage iron or similar...)
As for the gearbox, I will leave it standard as Im not going to race it I think the primary drive will be fine.
All I need to get started is a doner engine that i can swap all the parts into the new cases and a TM barrel, head and inlet manifold.... any one willing to help???
I will remove the existing engine and put it away as it is the origional and I want to keep it that way, therefore i wont be pirating any parts from it.
This bike will get a full restoration in the future but will also serve as a test bed in the mean time.
I am currently trying to negotiate another TS125T at the moment so will see how that goes...
Any tips / hints or long kept secrets regarding this conversion?
Thanks
Andy
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Forget a TM cylinder, a TS cylinder can be made to outperform a TM with surprising ease. The TM primary may be a different ratio that's why people would swap them.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cylinder-Jug-1974-Suzuki-TM125-TM-125_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a4Q7c65Q3a10Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a200QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem250405625844QQitemZ250405625844QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cylinder-Head-1974-Suzuki-TM125-TM-125_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a4Q7c65Q3a10Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a200QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem250405625321QQitemZ250405625321QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
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Lozza, very interested in the idea of porting the TS barrel. I have a brand new unused on in the shed.
do you have the specs or details for this job. I have access to a fully equipped machine shop with all the necessary tools.
PM me if you want with as much info as you can or are willing to share!!
Awesome, thanks
Andy
PS, CG, I saw those items on Egay, not too keen to import stuff from the US at the mo, would rather get it from NZ (TMBILL???? hint hint... ;) ) or Aussie....
Cheers.
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the primary drive swap does have a little to do with ratios Loz as the primary drive on a TS is 16t/57t and on the TM it's 17t/57t. Both clutchbasket gears are 57T but it's also about replacing helical cut gears for the reduced drag of the straightcut type ;)
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So I take it the TM gears are straight cut? I know the TS ones are helical....
Whats involved in this swap?
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involved in the swap is finding an RM125S or M clutch basket with the matching primary gear, a new clutch cover gasket and 650ml of fresh oil ;) I made an error too, while the TM125 has 17/57t primary it's still helical cut and it's only the RM125S and M thats straightcut with the ratio of 18/61t ;)
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Beauty! I'll start hunting now.....
Thanks mate
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no probs, TMBill is the man to talk to though as he taught me a few new tricks with the 125's ;)
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I have a set of gears and the clutch basket from a RM125S trouble is you got to buy the rest of the disassembled RM125s too. Everything there except the pipe (Lost... stolen)
Condition roughish needs a good resto $750 Tim754
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I dunno about the more HP story as a straight cut primary adds almost 2 HP to a 60HP Banshee(according to the manufacturer), TM125 even in our wildest dreams,would be lucky to see high 15HP in standard nick ;D ;D. Ratio is different which might work in with the box better.
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Im unsure about it to the more I think about it. I dont think it is worth it for this particular project. Unless one fell into my lap...
Now Lozza, about porting the TS barrel...... tell me what you know please...
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Anyone else have any ideas about porting a TS barrel to achieve more HP than a Tm as suggested by Lozza?
I want to research this before I commit to a TM barrel etc.. and find I can do some work on my spare barrel with better gains.
I realise other people have done a lot of R&D but i dont have the time and why re-invent the wheel ?
Its just for my own fun, not any financial gain. I just want to go faster on the road where the bike spends 99% of its time.
If this avenue of enquiry fails to bear fruit, i guess I will have to go the TM way.... would be a LOT more satisfying to port my own barrel and use that though!!
Come on guys, any idea????
Thanks
Andy.
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The TM bolts on, porting takes time and expertise, as you've said you are not racing it.
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if you want to go faster on the road, then why not just fit a smaller rear sprocket or a larger front sprocket?
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I think it's more a case of he'd like the bike to be more snappy all over wheelstanding away from the lights 1st thru 3rd when required ;) least I think I'm assuming correctly :P I'd go the way cyclegod mentioned, fit as much TM stuff as possible and you'll have more snappier HP without forsaking any reliability ;) one of the TM and TS series main attributes was the fact they were/are super reliabilty.
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Got it in one Doc, as usual... I want it to be snappier all over the rev range, particulary the top end without sacrificing the bottom end... :-\
I will probably go the TM way as it all bolts up...
This is the current plan:
- TS125T bottom end incl gearbox, crank, electrics, clutch
- TM125 barrel, head, piston (all standard for now)
- TM125 Hop-up carb (28mm) - already have it 8)
- Standard pipe for now (will probably tame the engine for road use)
- RM125S primary drive setup (possibly, depending on availability)
What do you guys think about that plan?
Any other mods or ideas?
It needs to be usable and snappy and of course reliable (I ride it to work every day ;D )
Im 99% settled on this plan but it is open to ideas......
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the stock pipe will strangle the TS but it will be quiet. I know a guy who uses a TS pipe on his TM for practice as his neighbors spaz otherwise. It works okay but the power is down considerably according to said owner. Never tried it myself ;)
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Add to the above list a vintage iron pipe or similar ( dont give a stuff about the noise, Im a cop, whose gonna do anything about it? ;)
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dont give a stuff about the noise, Im a cop, whose gonna do anything about it?
yor Mama dats who!! :D the pipe on my TM is a TM pipe with a half decent silencer and it's not loud at all. Much better than the terrible boooooooaaaaaaaaar noise you get from the stock pipe ;)
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oooooooooooowwwwwww I want that sound!!!!
Right you lot, you all know what I need, so help me out with some bargains.... ( TMBILL....... ;) )
The plan is in motion....
Another question....
I have a 28mm carb from the hop-up kit for the TM125, If I make a manifold and fit it to my bog stock '72 TS125T will it go any better?
Just an idea while I get parts together....
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Well, I got stuck in today and made a manifold for the TS and fitted the 28mm Mikuni carb.....
It runs like a pile of crap!!!
Will run ok with the choke on but once you open it, the bike runs ok for about 10 seconds then dies. You can keep it going if you hold the throttle open at about 3/4.
Any less than that and it dies.
It doesn't matter where the needle clip is set it still does it.
I guess it is because the standard TS engine cant handle the bigger carb or is there something else I am missing.
I realise this carb will work onders on the new engine I am building, I was just mucking around till I get all the bits for the engine.....
Let me know what you all think..
Cheers
Andy.
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is the carby new or used?
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SS, you'd have to double check what jetting the 28mm carb has and work on something in between the full blown kit jet sizes and the stock sizes. Without de-resticting the airbox and the exhaust the difference with a bigger carb would be minimal and not worth the effort. You're right, the std motor doesn't have the flow needed to make the bigger carb work effectively. If you build the other motor using a TM cylinder, head and decent pipe then the carb will be needed. I'd say if the carb is a TS kit (hop up) carb it's probably only a 26mm as that is what the TM has standard. Measure it right up near the slide/throttle valve area as the bore may taper out towards the cylinder giving the impression it's a 28. Good performance will come but patience is needed till you have all or most of the right bits ;)
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I figured as much Doc. The carb is definately 28mm. I got it from a bloke in NZ and he got it with his TM when he bought it brand new, never got round to using it. So from that I can only assume it has the needle and jets etc that they came with standard.
I will get the TM bits together, biff it all together and go from there.
I'll put the standard carb back on the old bus (still pulls 9500rpm in standard form...)
By the way, where can i get a new clutch kit from for the TS ? And does it come with the steel plates as well as the fibres or just the fibres..??
Thanks
Andy.
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Hey Doc sell him ya twin cylinder TS will ya, better road performance, and still a traily with out wasting good TM parts on a road bike. ss go out and find a good old T250 or T305 Genuine 100MPH+ go and build the TS/TM for off road play.
OK I take Road bikes and try to turn them into off road/ dirt/ speedway bikes, but always have sniffed at wasting off roaders by turning them into asphalt eaters. 8)
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SS, I have a second chance offer on a clutch disc set on ebay US at present, it's $10.95US + about $14.00US postage. If you want it I can grab it and have it posted to you directly? It's only the fibres, the steel plates will probably only need a bit of a rough up to be good again. The plates are still available from suzuki but the price will be more than $30US I can assure you, probably closer to $15au each plate. Let me know if you want them and we can take it from there ;)
Tim, I plan to finish the GTS185 1 day so it's not for sale. I personally wouldn't mind an ol' T305 or similar to play with...as a street bike that is not some weird far out trailie conversion :D
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Tim, this TS has been in my family since new. It has been ridden all over the country by my Dad and by me both on and off road, a true adventure bike...
I use this as my primary type of transport mainly due to my love of riding any bike but also as my wife has the car usually.( plus i normally find the odd gravel road to play with on the way home..... ;D)
The reason I am doing this is basically cause I can!!! I also want to wipe the snobby grin off the bastard on the modery bike who looks at me with disgust on my old "farm bike".......
I realise I could go out and by something of the same era and it would be more practical but who want to be like everone else?
And why buy it when you can build it?
There is no better feeling than sticking one up them!!!!
I muck around with these old bangers beacuse i love them and get an enormous amount of satisfaction in acheiving my goals.
You can keep your twin cylinder road bikes......
Im staying with my faithfull old TS125 !!
Anyway, enough ranting, Im just passionate about VMX bikes and in particular my old banger.
Andy.
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Doc, I'll let you know about the clutch in the next day or so, I'm waiting to see how much they are over the counter at my local Suziki dealer. I will probably collapse in shock but one is always hopefull.....
Thanks for the offer, very decent of you.
Andy
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No probs Andy, it's just I was 'contemplating' buying them but I aready have a few spare sets. Thing is they fit near all Suzuki's under 200cc and over 100cc. Might grab them anyway so they'll be here in a few weeks if you need them. if not I'll use them sooner or later anyway ;)