OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: XR Pilot on April 06, 2009, 12:41:43 am
-
Hi all,
New member here. I'm starting a rebuild on a TS185 project and this place seems to have more than its fair share of TS185 experts and seems a fitting place to ask my questions ;D
The bike in question was purchased on ebay a couple of weeks back for the grand total of $76. Its a 7/78 model, so if my search is correct then this makes it a "C" model, the last of the 185s before the ER models. The bike runs, and all gears are there (without any load anyhow, no chain on it at the moment). I spent today cleaning all the crap out of the oil injection tank, cleaning out the oil lines and checking the pump, which is now fine. Thankfully it looks like the oil injection has been used for the life of the bike, which probably explains why it seems to have reasonable compression, it starts second kick when cold. It also seems to idle fairly well. It doesn't rev high at startup and seems to return to idle in a normal amount of time after giving the throttle a blip, so preliminary checks seem to say the crank seals are still ok. In general the parts that are there seem to be in fair to good condition, which brings me to my main point. The missing bits...
I am in need of a tank, seat, all plastic guards and covers and a set of foot pegs. Does anyone with prior experience know if the 185ER bits will fit this bike? I realise anything can be made to fit with enough work, but I'd prefer close to bolt on, thank you ;) I also have a TS185L ('74) in the shed in bits I could use the seat/tank and pegs off but I would prefer not to. Speaking of ER bits, does the centre port engine in my '78 share many parts with the ER incase I'm hunting ebay or the wreckers for parts?
I am also in need of one of the oil injection banjo bolts, the one that feeds the cylinder. Does anyone have one they could take off a damaged cylinder for me? I, ummm, had an accident with the current one removing the pipe whilst making sure it wasn't blocked :'( This and finding a seat/tank is my main problem preventing me from riding the bike at the moment, aside from both exhaust studs being broken off in the cylinder that will need to be removed and replaced. The exhaust is currently held on by wire from its previous owner. I'd like to get it to a rideable stage to teach a few friends how to ride and then I plan on stripping it back, tidying it up and registering it for a cheap commuter as it still has its compliance plate :D
Sorry for the somewhat rambling first post here as I am fairly tired, but I appreciate any and all help I can get in bringing this old bike back from the dead :)
-
Here some links to some TS parts...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-TS185-Fuel-Tank-NOS-TS185C-TS185N-NEW-GAS-TANK_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35586QQihZ015QQitemZ250349246321QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
The tank is expensive but I would suggest that you find a good TF185 tank as they fit the frame well and carry an additional 4 litres
Side covers, take your pick...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Genuine-Suzuki-TS185-Side-Cover-NOS-TS185C-B-1977-1979_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35583QQihZ024QQitemZ370116015727QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/79-Suzuki-185-Plastic-Side-Cover-TS185-Left-77-78_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35583QQihZ019QQitemZ290269601379QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-TS185-Side-Cover-NOS-NEW-Panel-TS185B-C-77-79_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35583QQihZ020QQitemZ300253445383QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-79-SUZUKI-TS185-TS-185-VINTAGE-LEFT-SIDE-COVER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35583QQihZ024QQitemZ370103421844QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Genuine-Suzuki-TS185-Side-Cover-NOS-TS185C-B-1977-1979_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35583QQihZ019QQitemZ4606303734QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Rear mudguards, take your pick...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-TS185-PE-TS-TC-Rear-Fender-NOS-PE125-TS400-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35584QQihZ019QQitemZ4585551790QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-TS185-TS-TC-PE-Rear-Fender-Genuine-NOS-JAPAN_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35595QQihZ013QQitemZ230224738928QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-TS185-Rear-Fender-NOS-Genuine-TS185-FENDER-77-79_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35600QQihZ024QQitemZ370120740894QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-TS185-PE-TS-TC-Rear-Fender-NOS-Genuine-FENDER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35584QQihZ024QQitemZ370064985984QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-TS185-PE-TS-TC-Rear-Fender-NOS-TS-Genuine-FENDER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35584QQihZ020QQitemZ300254943336QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/77-SUZUKI-TS185-TS-185-EXHAUST-MUFFLER-HEAT-SHIELD-AK6B_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35581QQihZ002QQitemZ120119297727QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-TS185-TS185ER-Muffler-Cover-NOS-Exhaust-Protecto_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35596QQihZ020QQitemZ4643095041QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Early seats won't fit and neither will ER seats but TF seats will, footpegs are the same as later ER type, engine parts form ER's will fully interchange except exhaust (doesn't have heat sheild mounts) most of the body work from the TF185's will fit as the TS185 B/C frame was the basis for that model. I hope this stuff helps you.
(http://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2008/07/14/bikepics-1353032-full.jpg)
-
XR, pretty sure the banjo bolt is still available for about $8 from Suzuki. I'd have a bolt but it maybe easier to just slip into a zooki shop and order one if they haven't got it in stock ;) part number 09360-06009
-
all the 77 onwards center port motors are the same, except for inlet port size and carburettor size, plus i found a slight difference in exhaust port. So yes you can basically use any ER 79 onwards model engine parts as they are all the same.
-
Wow, I wasn't expecting replies this quick :)
cyclegod (or should that be ebaygod ;D) - Thanks for those links. I'll keep them handy for my next pay. I think I'll pass up that tank you listed though, its a little expensive for me :o I've just done a quick net search and according to a stock list for a nearby wrecker they have a TF185 for parts, so I think the seat and tank from that sounds like a goer. The larger tank will be most welcome, and I'm not shooting for originallity on this build. Thanks for the photo too, it helps knowing what the finished result should look like. I've included an ebay sale photo for you so you can see what I am in for. Theres a bit of work to be done, frankly if it was a non-runner I wouldn't have bothered.
Doc - A new banjo bolt for $8 sounds good to me. I'll check next time I call into the local bike shop, they are a Yamaha dealer but can order zook bits.
LWC3077 - Thats good to know, thanks for the info. Is the inlet and carby larger on the 77/78s or the ERs? Is there much to be gained by fitting the ER parts? The main reason I ask is if I can't easily repair the damaged exhaust studs on the cylinder (unlikely but possible) then I will look at finding some ER bits.
Heres what it looked like on the ebay ad. Aside from the welded on gearshift lever the motor seems to be in reasonable shape, the cases don't show any chain damage or cracks etc. A compression test and repairing the exhaust studs is next on the to-do list
(http://i8.ebayimg.com/05/i/001/39/fd/ef23_1.JPG)
(http://i10.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/39/fe/1344_1.JPG)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/15/!BOf44GgBGk~$(KGrHgoOKi4EjlLm,WWnBJvBbnBq-Q~~_1.JPG)
-
Look here to find part numbers and diagrams, very handy to have when walking into a Suzuki parts dealer or eBay.
http://www.alpha-sports.com/suzuki_parts.htm
-
Hi XR I have a set of foot pegs if you want then they are off a 83 ER.
-
cyclegod - Bookmarked in favourites. Thanks again :)
Big John - PM sent.
-
XR, beware the footpeg bracket that bolts up under the motor with the 4x 8mm bolts. These brackets have a tendancy to bending and then breakaway relegating the rider much excruciating pain and denting of the fuel tank with ones anatomy :o It would really pay to whip the bracket off and lay some decent welds just for peace of mind. Keep an eye on the footpegs for any sign of drooping because this is the the only warning you will get if any ;)
-
i know there was a difference in port sizes because some time ago i rang a wrecker for a TS185ER barrel, but when i got it, i found that it had smaller inlet port and the exhaust port was different. the barrel was marked ER but it wasnt. It was off a 77 or 78 model which used the smaller 26mm? carby and smaller porting but the 79 onwards uses 29mm and larger port.
keep in mind that the alpha-sports catalogues are US and in US their 79 TS was still the same as the 78 model but other countries had the newer TS-ER models in 79. to look at ER spec stuff look at the US 80/81 models. They were the same as our ER model but didnt carry the ER suffix and sensibly were still called a plain TS. i will never know why they were an ER in other countries.
i have 77/78 barrel on STD bore if you need one. it just needs a decent beadblast and paint and i thiunk it needs a 6mm helicoil for the banjo bolt. it was the one i paid $90 for from a wrecker but it was the wrong one. its yours for $40 plus post if you want.
-
Doc - I've noted that for future reference, I can't imagine steel tanks would have much give in them :o I've got the peg bracket unbolted at the moment so I'll brace it before it goes back on.
LWC3077 - I'll keep your offer of a barrel in mind if I can't get the studs repaired on the current cylinder. I'm not sure if its on an overbore or not as I'm yet to take the head and barrel off. I'll make sure to check out the 80-81 catalogues too if I'm checking out ER part no's, thanks for the info :)
Since posting I decided to remove the engine from the frame. I've unbolted the pipe/coil/cdi etc without hassle and all but one of the engine bolts has come free. I've ran into a snag with the bolt that goes through the cases underneath the exhaust port - its stuck solid and seems to have welded itself on the nut side to the cases, if that makes sense. I've tried a search to see if anyone has some tips for removing stuck bolts but couldn't find anything, does anyone have any ideas? It won't turn and I've tried giving it a few taps with a hammer and drift but it won't budge, and I am afraid of cracking the cases if I hit it hard enough. I'm thinking of using a small propane torch to heat the cases around the bolt with a low-heat, and then whilst it is hot using a rattle gun with a good quality impact socket. Does anyone have any other/better ideas?
-
soak with penetrating oil for a day or so first.
-
I've given it a spray with WD40 while I'm thinking about the problem, but I don't know if it is going to help much as it doesn't look like there is much of a gap, if any, between the thread and cases for the oil to work its way into. I'll give it another good soak shortly since there is no harm in trying.
-
if it doesnt work then yes i would be trying all the things you have already suggested. you will be surprised how things can become free after a good soak in oil.
-
never had a prob with using a good drift and a firm wack with a hammer. can soak all nite but still no replacement of a good well placed shock to loosen any screw.
Brass drifts for small shocks. steel for hard shocks.
-
Small update, I tried giving the bolt a firm whack with a steel drift but it didn't budge and I didn't want to crack the cases, so instead I tried moving the bolt back and forth with a breaker bar. It felt like it started to move, and it was moving further each time. Unfortunately I had the bike layed on its side at the time so I couldn't see the other end of the bolt, which wasn't moving. End result is the bolt has sheared its head. The engine is still in the frame but if I drill about 2-3mm off the end of the bolt I will be able to remove the engine from the frame, at which point I am going to contact the local machinist to see if he can drill the bolt out for me.
-
little bit of heat goes a long way, if you have one of those propane heating torches from the Cheapas autos, then get it out of the frame, heat the case a little and try tapping it GENTLY again. You get this where you combine steel and alloy with cadnium plating, then add a few years of water.
My blacksmiths tip on heating is don't get alloy things hotter than 120 degrees, spit on parts as you are heating them and you sooi find where 100 degrees is. Also heating and WD40 works wonders.
-
G'day XR could you put a picture up of the said problem I can't work it out as if the bolt is for the engine mount it should go through a plate into the engine and through the plate with a nut on the end.If you've broken the bolt it should be free to exit the whole. jimson
-
Brake fluid is what you use if the bolt is rusted on to alloy cases.
If a small section of the bolt is on the other side weld a nut onto it ........then soak the F.....ker in fluid giving it a squirt and bang each time. Time is costing you nothing ....but impatient will lead to $$$
-
Thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate it. I will get a picture up within the next few days, but basically the bolt has fused to the cases due to them being dissimilar metals. I can't remember the name for it.
jimson - I'm not sure if you've seen a newer TS185 motor or not, but its not like the old motor that uses 2 seperate removable plates, one is removable (which I have removed) but the other one is welded to the frame. This side is the one that the bolt head sheared off, and because there is *just* enough metal on the bolt still inside the metal plate, I can't lift the engine up to clear the lower mounting plates to lift the engine free from the frame. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words :)
oldfart - Brake fluid sounds like its worth a try. Another option is getting a friend to press the bolt out, but I am paranoid about cracking the cases. As you say time is nothing, but all it takes is one slip up to destroy a pair of undamaged cases.... :'(
-
Use your propane torch to heat the engine cases around were the bolt is seized. With the higher expansion rate of the ally, it should eventually break the bond with the bolt. This is when you apply the lubricant and work the nut still attached back and forth until the lub can get in (says Mrs Marsh) and it starts to loosen fully. Then you can try driving it out with a pin punch.
Then if all else failes, go the press, but make sure you support it close to where the pressure is, ideally a hollow tube just big enough for the nut/bolt to fit through.
-
XR if the bolt is only a flyshit from coming away from the mount then 'my' next move would be to bend the frame tab out slightly with a shifter(s) to clear the bolt so to at least remove the motor for more carressing. The mounting plate is only crappy mild steel and can easilly be repaired and no-one will ever know ;) sounds rough but it's effective and will make life a lot less stressful ;)
-
how big is the bolt you can get a tool called easy outs that screw into bolts after you drill a hole in them mechanics use them to get busted bolts out search easy outs on ebay you can pick up cheap sets the are an invaluable tool they are threaded so when you tighten them into the bolt the bolt spins the opposite way highly recommend trying them if there is enough bolt to work with thanks Michael.
-
A few spares for you in this lot...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SUZUKI-MOTORBIKE-X-3-BIKES-FOR-PARTS-Motorcycle_W0QQitemZ130298607737QQihZ003QQcategoryZ32074QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem