OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: LWC82PE on March 23, 2009, 09:54:21 pm
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can any one confirm what the finish on the Takasago rims is? im not sure if its silver anodizing or clear anodizing? im leaning towards clear but i would like to know for sure. im thinking of the period 79-82
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When I was in at Anodisers last week we spoke about the same finish.....his conclusion is that they have been fashed dipped . Much the same fininsh as per Rm / Pe swing arms
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yeah but silver or clear? i was looking at a 09 model KLR650 today and the Takasago rims on that have the same finish as the original PE/RM rims and we were thinking that they are clear annodized. ive compared a freshly stripped rim to a non stripped one and it looks like it could be clear as you the finish is quite glossy and reflective. I was always going to get them done 'bright silver' but now im thinking that could be wrong and i should go with clear.
ive looked at the rims and swingarms and the swingarms dont seem as glossy/bright like the rims.
what exactly is 'flash dipped'?
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not dipped for as long ....
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what effect does that have on the finish? silver or clear ???
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Not a gloss finish nor a satin .... brings out the colour of product being plated
I will post a pic of my arm tonight
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Here you go
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well that looks exactly like my swingarm does and i requested 'bright silver annodizing' It doesnt look like the rims did originally though. I think they are 2 different finishes. You still havent clarified if 'flashed' is a clear or silver finish.
have you seen brand new Excel rims? That to me is the same finish on the old suzuki rims and i think its a CLEAR annodizing
I also have to get some TT500 DID rims done but they look totally different to the Takasagos. The DID's are more of a dull satin silver colour and not bright/shiny/glossy looking like the Takasagos.
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Anodising is an electroplating process, not dipping as such. the concept is plating a pure aluminium onto the base alloy, there is no "clear" anodising but a natural aluminium appearance, colouring is achieved as the part is dipped into dye (colour) of the customers choice (the depth and intensity of the colour varies depending on how long the part is left in the dye) the part is then sealed with a commercial water based sealer although this is not entirely necessary. The principal of anodising is a protective coating ie; Pure Aluminium has a low structural strength, but it does however have a high corrosion resistance. The alloy is protected by galvanic action, as the coating is anodic to the alloy. The Aluminium alloy composition increases strength by bonding Aluminium with the alloying agents in the atomic lattice, enhancing slip resistance within the structure. Pure Aluminium has is often alloyed with other elements to increase its strength and hardness.Aluminium alloy is particularly susceptible to inter-granular, general/pitting, exfoliation and stress corrosion. This is due to electrochemical differences that exist between the precipitates (inter-metallic compounds) and the bulk alloy, creating anodic and cathodic areas. Once an electrolyte, such as water, comes into contact with the alloy, the corrosion process will begin. In short a clear coat of lacquer over a natural anodised finish will appear the same as OEM finish ;)
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well that looks exactly like my swingarm does and i requested 'bright silver annodizing' It doesnt look like the rims did originally though. I think they are 2 different finishes. You still havent clarified if 'flashed' is a clear or silver finish.
have you seen brand new Excel rims? That to me is the same finish on the old suzuki rims and i think its a CLEAR annodizing
I also have to get some TT500 DID rims done but they look totally different to the Takasagos. The DID's are more of a dull satin silver colour and not bright/shiny/glossy looking like the Takasagos.
Interesting thread. I have often wondered the same. Excell are takasago aren't they so it most likely will still be the same finish as years ago compared to say DID rims.
I dont think the swing arm and rims are done the same way. The swing arm looks as though it has some kind of silver coating without a glossy finish where as the rims look like they are polished and then clear laquered. laquered or annodized ? I dont know but I would defo say the two items are processed differently.
Just looking at my bike (81 RM) right now and the finishes are defo different colours. The swing arm is obviously a shade of silver coating but the rims just look laquered.
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ok so your thinking the rims are clear annodized, which is what im leaning towards doing. yes Excell is Takasago. Excell is just the model name of the rims which are their top line rims.
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The people I talk to are the ones that plate Excell rims and do my work
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are Excell rims made in austalia now and not japan? if thats the case i never knew that. what did those people who do the Excell rims say that the clear or silver ones are done in? clear or silver annodizing? if i can get the general consensus that they are a gloss clear finish then thats what i will do.
Rocket frog, you seem to know a bit about this. Are you an anodiser? what do you suggest i request the annodizers to do? you say there is no such thing as clear annodizing?
clear paint or laquer is out of the question, i require the original finish i dont believe the original finish is clear paint as it doenst come off with paint striper and had to be sent to the annodizers to strip.
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Rims are stripped and re done in OZ the meet the market flavour of the month ;)
Ring up Your local Anodiser and get the good oil
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I have had a few takasago rims annodized after being stripped and polished and was fairly disappointed to see the consolodation joint turn up darker than the rest of the rim, in addition to that, one gut I spoke to wont annodise DID rims because they actually split where they are joined when they're being done.
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i have had that problem before after welding up cracks, then getting them re-annodized and the crack re-appears after annodizing. it think the thing to do is heat treat after welding, but the annodising still reacts with the fresh filler rod anyway, so any rims from now on that are cracked i just bin. its not worth spending hours on polishing and then get them annodized then the crack re-appears.
i have had DIDs done in silver and some takasagos done in gold before and they didnt come back cracked at the joins and i had done no welding them, so im confident on getting any rims done that havent been cracked and re-welded.
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Leigh.
Have you heard or do you now of Buchanan wheels in the US.
They are importers of Takasago rims in the US.
They have a good reputation.
I emailed them and asked the finish question.
This was their reply which is interesting and informative.
"John,
The takasago rims are silver anodize with a clear coating over the anodize. We don't offer re-anodizing service on used rims. The only thing we can do is polish them for you. The estimated cost for polishing an used rim is $90.00 each.
Regards,
Angel
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:45 AM
To: Tech Support
Subject: Takasago excel rims
Hi there.
I am in the UK and wondered if you could help me with some advice.
I want to restore some old 1980's takasago rims which are scratched and stained.
Can you tell me the process that takasago use to finish the alluminium rims ? The ones I mean are the silver finished ones, not chrome or gold or blue, just the natural silver colour. I notice they have a different finish to other manufacturers.
Are they polished and laquered or are they anodized somehow. Or maybe a different process altogether.
If you could help me that would be great.
John."
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so i wonder what the clear coating over top is? its obviously something more substancial than clear paint
i just bought a NOS 1980 suzuki takasago front rim so i will send it to the annodizers and ask if they can copy that finish
PS -name spelt Leith pronounced Layth ;)
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No Lieth I am not an anodiser, but I have dabbled with Annodising at home. I recommend preparing several test coupons from an old rim that you dont mind cutting into sections. Get your annodiser to trial different plating times record the results until they match the finish you require, as the duration of plating time has an effect on the depth of colour (this is not as important if you require a coloured finish- but then the coloured finish will require further experimentation to achieve the depth of colour you desire because dwell time in the dye also effects the final job appearance). If you have an old rim to experiment on, apply a small amount of sodium hydroxide at 40% WW (caustic soda) to the surface with a cotton tip and observe the behaviour of the reaction.The metal initially fizzes a white colour if pure aluminium (annodising ) is present, and will turn a dark grey to black when the solution begins to react with the base alloy. This blackening is termed "smut" and what you are witnessing is the copper within the alloy reacting with sodium hydroxide. Fresh water rinse and apply vinegar (acetic acid 10% WW)to neutralise the reaction, then repeat fresh water rinse and dry. When the vinegar is applied, you will notice that the smut disappears. Weldments often annodise a darker colour because the filler used in the weld does not match the base alloy-It is more than likely the reason that weld repairs fail as well. Depending on the composition of the alloy, annodising will appear different in colour for any given process, the protective coating will still be present in the end, but asthetically, may not be what you were hoping for. 4000 alloy has a high silicon content which aids flow characteristics in casting and is often chosen as a weld filler for its low melting point and flow. I suspect that the silicon is cause for darker appearance as I have trialled annodising cast alloy with the result of being dark and not readily accepting a colour (except black). The bottom line is that you will need to experiment a little to find out suzuki's secret recipe for the OEM finish, but a plater who is willing to trial a few settings can get the finish right. Provide a sample of the correct finish and some test samples of the same rim type and see what can be done I say ;)
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good stuff, i have a cracked PE rim i had gold annodized and is basically an ornament. i will get it stripped, polish it a bit again and then cut it up into sections to get some sample annodizing done on it and see what happens.
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PS -name spelt Leith pronounced Layth ;)
I knew that. didn't notice my typo. sorry mate.
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Just descovered a new company in the UK.
They say you can get clear annodize.
http://www.realitymotorworks.com/Anodising/anodising.htm
http://www.realitymotorworks.com/index.htm