OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Ji Gantor on March 16, 2009, 06:24:51 pm
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With the Nationals coming up it may be time to start the scrutineering topic.
What do the Scrutineers look for.
I am no expert on this topic but I will get the ball rolling. I am sure there will be a heap of members that will enhance what I write here. I hope that may be we might even get the good oil from the scrutineer him or herself.
a) Class of bike (like Pre 75) which will include wheel travel........,
b) Blocked handlebar ends,
c) Play in steering head bearings,
d) Play in wheel bearings,
e) Foot peg springs,
f) leaking fuel tanks,
g) General unsafe bikes and
h) Helmet and safety clothing,
There would be more than what I have just listed but at least make sure your bike and safety clothing complies to these basic ones.
Ji
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the wheels turn and its in the right class entered
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spoke tightness. ball end levers. and that the throttle returns and doesnt stick.
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Hi LWC3077,
Are yes, to check spokes they run a screw driver around the wheel to listen for low pitch or loose spokes.
Very good.
Ji
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Probably won't be at the Nationals...but, what do they look at regards to safety clothing? Just to see if you have any or would they go further than that?
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some complain about using a screwdriver on spokes as it can wear off that precious plating. and if you use your bare hand, some of the punters like to lockwire the spokes together making for sharp little nasties for the scrutineer. i like to squeeze em like.... um, well, y'know.. :)
ball end levers a must.
bar ends plugged a must.
throttle return a must.
no feul leaks a must.
good steering bearings a must.
brakes that work a must.
the rest? well i'm sure theres more but safety or a safe bike is the important thing to me.
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Hi LWC3077,
Are yes, to check spokes they run a screw driver around the wheel to listen for low pitch or loose spokes.
Very good.
Ji
I don't mind getting dirty- I use me fingers-looking for just loose spokes.
I wouldn't run a screwdriver-personally its a bit like running keys up a paint job on a BMW.
carbie cap top thingee is done up tight. :o
and the most important job :o the big tick on the paper work :P u r ready to ride tick ;D
alison
oops sorry vandy010 -lockwire the spokes together making for sharp little nasties for the scrutineer.
ahh ,is that common practice at the Nats :o
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Hi MX?,
There are rules about safety clothing and if you are getting your race license you are asked a question about your safety clothing. The helmet is always checked to see it has passed the approved standard.
Ji
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Hi vandy010,
Thanks mate, are you a scrutineer?
Ji
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Okay, here is a question that confuses a few people every race meeting.
Does your bike require a chain guard over the counter shaft sprocket?
Ji
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Here is another question,
Will the sound meter come out to test the noise level of bikes?
Ji
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At a national event alot of the time is spent ensuring bike's meet eligibility critera ie. numbers/backgrounds, suspension travel, numbers of back, ensuring bike meets cut off date, noise testing things like that.
General consensus is that if you turn up to race for a National title that you won't have loose spokes :P
When was the last time you saw Craig Anderson's bike having it's spokes rattled by some bloke in a flannie with a screw driver in his hand.
You will need your name and number on your back
Don't forget to put the letter infront of your race number
bike meets 89 db noise test :o
bike complies with period........if oyou want to argue make sure you can back it up with proof.
correct number plate background colour.
Ensure you have all your paper work done, that includes one day licences done before the event not on the day. That may include competence testing.
Ji,
A front sprocket needs a cover if it's more than 30mm from the outside of the swingarm pivot.
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bike meets 89 db noise test
holey moley keeps goin down ;)
cheers alison
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Foot pegs 12.8.5.1 a well rounded and no dangerous edges due to wear
b Hinged or pivoted Controlled by a return spring
centre stands 12.8.4.1 a-b-c-d MUST BE REMOVED
Chain drive protection 12.8.8 .1
2
3
4
5
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Luis, can't see how anyone would reject you cause the sprocket was welded on. They may have a bit of second look but I doubt it would be a knockback issue. As for drug testing, if you wish to bring them along there's always someone who'll test them for you :D seriously though, testing can happen anytime anywhere along the way or at the event ;)
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Scrutineering Hmm, Hypotheticly how does a scrutineer get on if he passes a bike as being fit to race at the start of a race day , then later in the day a wheel collapses on a scrutineered bike causing injury or worse . An Investigation proves that the wheel should never have passed scrutineering in the first place. Is the scrutineer legally liable ???
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Is that the sound of a can of "ACME WORMS" opening....... :D
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Bill, that's fine as you sign on the line at briefing saying 'you accept your bike maybe damaged or worse and you yourself may also be damaged or worse' there is small print and wording so the collective powers that be asses are covered..or at least till someone contests liability..which will happen..sadly :-\
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Very good alison....I was being a bit cheeky ;D ;D trying to get a bite from someone, obviously no one cares.
TM bill,
That's why we have insurance. In saying that the scruteener should only be looking for stuff that doesn't meet g.c.r. requirements. "spokes that make a different noise when hit with a screwdriver" and "Sloppy wheel bearings " aren't listed.
Should a scruteener be able to knock you back because of something like that? No. They could be getting themselves into trouble by saying "You have 1/2mm play in your s/arm pivot, you can't ride" It's not a listed rule and they can't make them up on the day.
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And What Trouble would thay get in to ????????????????????
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Hi evo550,
A front sprocket needs a cover if it's more than 30mm from the outside of the swingarm pivot.
How is this measured?
So if spokes and bearings are not on the list why are they checked at every club race meet?
Are you a scrutineer?
Is there such a thing as an official or accredited scrutineer?
Ji
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And What Trouble would thay get in to ????????????????????
no trouble,
1:you ask very politely to go fix it- please. :-*
2:all you can do for the safety of your fellow VMXer.
3:If all else fails-show em the hand gun under ya jumper. ;D
4:Level 4 scrutineers are well trained in PR work ;)
alison
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ALL Licensed MA officials personally are fully indemnified and insured against legal action. Yep I hear the but but buts! If you have bothered to sign up, pay for then complete and PASS the MA Stewards license course, I welcome your but but buts... if not and your not at least a Supreme court Judge ......................
JI Yes to your question about eligibility and functional scrutineers. For the Titles you should be at least level 3/ level 4 accreditation. You can ask to see the Officials License , it has their accreditation level for whatever disciplines on the back.
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Come on guys this is about getting your bikes ready and what is required to pass scrutineering.
Lets talk about that not who is to blame if things go wrong.
So is there a guide line for the scrutineers to look for?
If so where can I get a copy?
Ji
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Manual of Motorcycle sport and .....common bloody sense.
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Okay talking about the pros like Craig Anderson,
Will there be fuel sampling and testing?
Ji
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Foot pegs 12.8.5.1 a well rounded and no dangerous edges due to wear
b Hinged or pivoted Controlled by a return spring
I assisted with scrutineering at the tassie nats and informed a competitor that his footpegs did not have a return spring.His reply was that they only had to be self returning,seems as he may have bluffed me :-[
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Hi Tim754,
Can this manual of motorcycle sport be found on MA's web site?
I am sure I don't want to know where I have to go to find the other thing.
Ji
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Hi gorby,
See, this is what I am talking about.
If there is an accredited scrutineer than should not they and they only be performing such tasks and that said there must be a book of rules that give them guidance.
We should all take a look at this guide line so we all comply not only at the Nationals but at every club race meet.
Ji
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Yes on their web site or if you have a license it could be posted to you if you request. Fuel? look this is one of the last bastions of free reign on fuels, 91,95. 98 unleaded 102,116 + avgas , methanol , secret additives...... Shhhh don,t make a fuss or that will be rooted too! 89 decibels ... good grief farcical...
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Thanks Tim745,
I will not be asking to see their badges but it is good to know that some of our brothers and sisters have done a course and know what they are doing.
Ji
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Hi Tim745,
It is just that evo555 I think said that Craig Anderson does not get his spokes checked. I figure from that we are in the same scrutineering legue as him. So that said I know they have their fuel checked and the sound level meters is in use for them.
Ji
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Ji , read the Ma manual .....starting at All DICIPLINES page 91 most of what has been discussed is explained in the following pages
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Actually Ji there are quite a few Accredited MA Stewards and Officials right here on this forum ;). PM me if you like about any pressing scrut question and I will try to steer you on the correct course. Cheers Tim (Tim will do ..754 part pertains to a beloved light weight small bore gutless VMX sidecar I own)
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Hi Tim745,
PM sent.
Ji
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Hi Oldfart,
Would I have been sent that book with my race license?
Thanks
Ji
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Ji at the modern MX nationals they don't scrutineer the bikes at all. They know that at that level the bikes will be right.
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Ji
If you have a race licence you should have already read what they will be looking for at scrutineering
http://www.ma.org.au/Content/MA/FormsRules/Generalcompetitionrules/Manual_of_motorcycl.htm
cheers
Noel
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Ji, YES and 2009 manual was issued before Xmas.
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Ji at the modern MX nationals they don't scrutineer the bikes at all. They know that at that level the bikes will be right.
sort of right. ;D regardless of wether or not they have one there- the 4 positions for mx nats have to be filled.Also riders/guardians have to fill in a declaration. 8)
cheers alison
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12.8.8.5 A counter shaft sprocket which is more
than 30mm from the outside of the swing
arm pivot, must be covered.
Okay, looking down does this mean that if the sproket is sideways more than 30mm past the swingarm pivot bolt or cap it has to have a guard?
Ji
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Okay, I have just read those rules and yes I did read them before doing my race license test now I come to think of it.
Even your mudguards have to be a certain size.
Ji
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Yes and then proceed to the # above to get an Idea of what products you can use to fix it
metal having a thickness 1.6mm mesh with holes no larger than 10mm
Fibre glass having a minium thickness of 3mm
Even the size of bolts to be used
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Scrutineering Hmm, Hypotheticly how does a scrutineer get on if he passes a bike as being fit to race at the start of a race day , then later in the day a wheel collapses on a scrutineered bike causing injury or worse . An Investigation proves that the wheel should never have passed scrutineering in the first place. Is the scrutineer legally liable ???
Tim's covered the guts of this, but I'll add some padding:
If you are trained/qualified and you follow written procedures, then you'll be OK.
You risk a shit-storm if you are unqualified, or you 'make it up'.
MA (or your boss, or whoever is supposed to be in charge) will have to answer the other questions about whether your qualifications were actually suitable, etc.
So in Bill's example, if the scrutineer passes something that is clearly not safe, and it turns to pooh, then the scrutineer could be personally liable. I say "could" because there's still a lot of issues surrounding responsibility, whether the problem was/should have been found by the scrutineer, why it actually failed, etc.
In a lot of ways, the scrute avoids a lot of the responsibility for passing something that's not right, simply by bringing it to the rider's attention.
CAMS scrutineers sign off log-books with "NAFF" - No Apparent Fault Found... The used to write "OK", and then "No Fault Found" - I'm sure you can all imagine the (possible) legal arguments that brought us to writing NAFF instead...
Interestingly, CAMS are now moving to "Targetted scrutiny" - circuit cars only get checked once every 4 race meetings, plus the occasional random check. The responsibility to present a safe and legal race car, is back on the competitor.
The chance of legal action (justified or not) is far greater if someone dies - and that's basically just because competitors know and accept the risks and so they're are less likely to try to sue somebody. A grieving family, on the other hand, is often a relatively soft target for an ambulance chasing lawyer...
I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.
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And What Trouble would thay get in to ????????????????????
no trouble,
1:you ask very politely to go fix it- please. :-*
2:all you can do for the safety of your fellow VMXer.
3:If all else fails-show em the hand gun under ya jumper. ;D
4:Level 4 scrutineers are well trained in PR work ;)
alison
There are different levels of Scrutineers ??? surley not ::)
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This is all great stuff. I'm learning heaps!
Ji. Can we do a special on say clutch adjustment. How to remove a spark plug? How not to confuse your rim-lock with your valve?......
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Now, Now, back to the topic before the warden turns off the lights.
Reading those rules are kinda fun.
So many interesting ones to talk about.
One interesting rule that has been discussed is that the pros sign a stat dec stating that they have self assessed their bike. Can we do that?
Ji
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Nathan's spot on,
the job of the scruteener is to ensure the bike and safety equipment complies with the rule book, as a level 2 scruteener i don't go looking for anything else, if I see something I will bring it to the riders attention, but it's not my job to not allow them to ride if they have a dent in their rim.
As a level 2 clerk of course, If a rider came to see me because the scruteener said he/she couldn't ride because 2 of their spokes sounded different, I would have to over rule the scruteener and let them ride(then toddle back to the scruteener and tell them to find a reason that IS in the book ie maybe thier numbers aren't the right size)
TM,
their are 4 levels of official's
Level 1 are able to assist.
Level 2 came run a club event
Level 3 does National Title events
Level 4 does World titles
12.8.9.2 Valve caps must be fitted for all competitions ??? ???
Ji,
Depends what the supp regs say.
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Hi evo550,
Your last reply, I feel, puts the scrutineer issue to bed.
So does that mean at a club meet if the scrutineer starts looking at bearing play or spokes a rider very nicely can tell them to stick to the code and assess only those things stated in the MA manual?
Ji
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last year i attended the MAQ course for scrutineering.
given the general direction this thread has taken should be a pretty good indicator as to WHY the first half of the days training involved all the LEGAL crap that we as scrutineers are subject to.
Ji, if you can find a problem at scrutineering, feel free to push it to the limits, take it to court, then wait and see where our sport is in a few years time. better still, take yourself along to Motorcycling Australia and get yourself on the committee that writes up all the rules for scrutineering.
or, just settle down into your lounge chair with a nice cup of earl grey and read the MOMS
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Hi vandy010,
I am not trying to go down the legal road, take a good look at my postings.
I have been trying to get members off the legal questions and back onto the "Is My Bike Okay Sir" question.
So please lets drop the who is to blame stuff !
Before the warden hears us and turns off the lights !
I may be interested in becoming a scrutineer does it cost much and how long does it take?
I have inner piece but I don't think I am going to start reading Woman's Weekly !
Ji
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earl grey's cool 8) apparently...
all MAQ courses are free. check out the Motorcycling Aust website and you can link your way through to find out when and where courses are held. scrutineering was a 2 day course over a weekend and then you just roll up at a club event and put your name down as a scrutineer and build it up from there. you'll need to get a MAQ logbook where either the chief scrutineer will sign and date or the Clerk of the Course will. the more events you scrutineer, the more your logbook reflects your experience, the higher level of MAQ official you become.
jump in and get your feet dirty so to speak.
it's all good!
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Hi vandy010,
Cool I think I will.
Ji
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And What Trouble would thay get in to ????????????????????
no trouble,
1:you ask very politely to go fix it- please. :-*
2:all you can do for the safety of your fellow VMXer.
3:If all else fails-show em the hand gun under ya jumper. ;D
4:Level 4 scrutineers are well trained in PR work ;)
alison
There are different levels of Scrutineers ??? surley not ::)
Yep sure is -as you know Bill.
Everything in life has different levels. ;) ;D
alison
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Here is a really cool rule.
12.8.3.1 Exhaust systems must:
a) Be fitted with silencers,
b) Terminate at a point not more than
25mm beyond the rear extremity of
the rear tyre tread,
c) Be attached as closely as practicable
to the machine and in a manner
that does not, in the opinion of the
Scrutineer, create a hazard to other
competitors,
d) Where separate silencers are fitted,
have a minimum of 2 mountings
or locking screws on all machines
which have a capacity in excess of
85cc,
e) Where silencers are re-packable,
have safety wired securing bolts.
I have to ask, How many bikes have their silencer bolts safety wired?
And how many of them have 2 fixtures?
Ji
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12.8.9 Tyres
12.8.9.1 Tyres must comply with the following:
a) Metal studs, spikes, chain, rope or
other non-skid attachments may
not be used unless permitted by the
relevant SR.
b) Treads on tyres must be at least
1mm deep on any part of the tyre
I guess this is for road bikes but still. This would allow a rider to turn up with a near bald tyre.
I am not poking fun at the rule makers, they have a tough job, just seeing what is in the rules.
Ji
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12.8.7 Kick Start Levers
12.8.7.1 Kick start levers, other than transverse,
must be folding.
Every bike I have played with so far has lost the ball and spring from the kick starter, thus allowing it to flop about. I would think that this rule only looks at weather the lever foldes not weather it is retained during the race.
Ji
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12.8.10 Mudguards
12.8.10.1 Either a rear mudguard or a seat must be
fi tted which extends at least 20 degrees
to the rear of a vertical line drawn through
the rear wheel axle.
12.8.10.2 Mudguards must be made of a material,
which is not liable to cause personal injury
if deformed.
Does this mean that fibreglass and alloy mud guards are non-complying?
Ji
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12.8.2 Fuel Tanks
12.8.2.1 Fuel tanks may be constructed from any
material that has been approved by the
Australian Standards Association as a
petrol or fuel container material.
Does this rule mean that a scrutineer is only to check that a fuel tank is made of the right stuff and not if it is leaking from a seal, hole or osmosis?
Ji
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12.4.5 Engine Capacity Tolerances
12.4.5.1 Unless otherwise specifi ed in the following
table, the actual engine capacity of a
machine competing in a capacity class
may not exceed the prescribed capacity
for that class by more than 2%:
CLASS PERMITTED
EXCESS
Sidecar
Cycle car machines
except Road Race
5%
Period 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Historic Road Race,
Classic Dirt Track and
Classic Motocross
So this allows a 250cc bike to be 262.5cc,
Okay what about stroking?
I guess some one would have to know that another rider has breached the rules, but has any one ever had their engine pulled down at a race meet to be measured?
Ji
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Are things quiet at work Ji ?
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Suggesting that at the nationals we get say 300 riders.
And lets say on average they bring 3 bikes each.
That would mean that the scrutineers have to get through 900 bikes.
Checking suspension travel and other class criteria and then the safety issues can we assume each bike will take 5 minutes?
If so that will take 75 hours.
So to get the job done we will need 20 scrutineers taking 4 hours without a break.
If this is right I and many more should do the scrutineer course to lend a hand.
Ji
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You checky bugger XR.
It is my coffee break.
Keep well
Ji
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but has any one ever had their engine pulled down at a race meet to be measured?
Ji
this happened at the Tassie Nats last year when a dispute was lodged against a fellow QLD bike.
the motor was pulled down and measued and found to be OK.
the other guy got beat fair and square,
end of story.
nice maths on the duration of time to scrutineer all them bikes ji.
got me stuffed how they've ever done it in the past :o
so whens the next course?
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Hi Vandy,
Now if that bike was stripped due to a complaint from another rider the other rider has to pay for the work, is that right?
I don't know how long it takes to get the job done, but I just started to think about it from a managers point of view and WOW we will need a lot of scrutineers or more time or may be it does not take 5 minutes per bike. I posted those figures to let riders know how much they get from their non-paid scrutineers.
Ji
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The scrutineer will only check the obvious things at the begining of the event or pay particular attention to a bike if is brought to his attention.
At the nationals there are also other officials checking that the bikes are period correct but internal checks are only done on protest
I think the cheif stewart accepts the Protest.
There is a fee to lodge the protest.
Then the onus is on the owner of the bike that has had the protest lodged against it to prove that the machine is with in the prescibed regulations.
The responsability for your ride lays with you and it is not the scrutineers responsability to make sure your not cheating , if you cheat you are only letting yourself down.
We were at the Tassie event and the protest was a protest , all checks were carried out , the bike was legit and it was a happy ending. The best rider on the day won and won well.
Costs to prove that the bike is legit is the owners responsability
That just about covers it. If not its pretty close.
Shoey
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what Shoey said ^^^
Now if that bike was stripped due to a complaint from another rider the other rider has to pay for the work, is that right?
i know when a dispute is lodged, it cost about $70 or so. a measurer/chief scrutineer {in this case} is then called in to do the detective work. as for, who pays for the damaged gaskets and stripped head nuts on that old pile of classic junk during the "stip down"? i'm unsure.
in order to lodge a dispute, aperson would need to be pretty pissed off or certain they had a genuine reason so yeah, i'd imagine a situation like that could get a little tricky.
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When I made that comment I had just finished reading this rule.
12.5.1 Measurements at Meetings
12.5.1.1 A Steward of a meeting may direct the
measurement of the capacity of the
engine of any machine, to be carried out
at the conclusion of the meeting. Until the
measurement is completed the machine
must remain under the control of the RCB.
12.5.1.2 If an engine is measured at the request
of a rider or entrant, the rider or entrant is
liable for the cost of the measurement.
12.5.1.3 If an engine is measured for the purposes
of a protest, the party against whom the
decision is made is liable for the cost of
the measurement, and the machine may,
if the engine is found to be oversize, be
retained until such cost is paid.
So the Stewart can take on the cost of labour and the owner even if proven right pays for his own parts.
Does this mean you can protest agaisnt anybody you like.
I can not image how a protest against you would make you feel and how it would affect your riding.
I am still only looking for how all this works, I am not starting any fights.
Ji
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O.K.Ji,
STOP READING THE RULE BOOK!!!!! Unless your life depends on you taking out the Australian pre 85 open title.
If you just want to enjoy every odd Sunday flogging around in someone's paddock then lose the rule book.
Turn up to a meeting with your bikes, quick shade and esky and let the "How cool is this" atmosphere wash over you, the rule book will become a distant memory, your stress levels will drop drastically (Earl grey or beer also work a treat) and the reason you became involved with old dirt bikes will come flooding back to you.
PEACE 8)
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Look every body I am calm.
BP is down and heart rate is only 72.
What, are the rules by which our sport is governed taboo?
The more I learn the better person I am.
I will be riding this weekend at Kerry God willing but I don't see what that has to do with this.
What is the problem with finding out about how the rules are interpreted in regard to scrutineering.
I am not trying to provoke anyone nor am I trying to be disrespectful.
Is this a forum where free discussion is shunned.
Please lets all explore the rules that may help and save time for the volunteers at the Nationals by having our bikes ready to go without fuss.
Ji
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The reason I want you to stop reading the rule is that you run the real risk of knowing more than the officials running the meetings, not a good look 8) ;)
Q. What, are the rules by which our sport is governed taboo?
A. Have fun!!!
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Hi evo550,
Okay, I see your point.
Freedom of speech is very important to me and I love that old quote,
"I disagree with every thing you say but I would fight to the death for your right to say it"
Ji
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just a small one I had to go through - I suffer from asthma and use a puffer. I had to get a doctors approval document signed and registered with MA in case random drug screening found I was using a puffer - something as inoccous as a puffer but better to be sure than sorry.
Rossco
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Hi Ross.....,
That is what I am trying to get out of this topic.
Issues that people have not even thought about.
If some one just wanted to put me off my riding and protested about my engine size I would want compensation when they found out my bikes have stock bores. Wouldn't you, especially when I think it is in the rules. I am not talking about MA paying I am talking about the protester paying.
Ji
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just an opinion on the sprocket cover one as well - I had a simple cover made up to go over mine and passed OK at the last Nats - saw lots of guys head back to the pits to try and fabricate something at the last minute. Rather than discuss 300mm here or there I would put one on to ensure nothing untoward after travelling such a long way to get to a meet?
Rossco
PS - the NATS are an awesome event - looking forward to heading to another this year - already prepping the bike ;D
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Ji
Are you going to ride the Nats?
Noel
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Hi Noel,
Yes, God willing.
Ji
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Evo,I came in very late on this thread, so I spent some time going through the current GCRs as I had never seen anything on mandatory name & number on race jersey at major events. Couldn't find any reference, however, I found in All Diciplines 12.8.6.4 that cutout lanyards 1m long are mandatory. I've watched a few national MX events, seen riders take a tumble, and restart their bikes without finding & jamming a lanyard contact back in. Have I misread the rules, or is this one too hard to enforce?
Could someone clarify both these, because with the Nats in my back yard this year, I wouldn't like to show up unprepared.
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Evo,I came in very late on this thread, so I spent some time going through the current GCRs as I had never seen anything on mandatory name & number on race jersey at major events. Couldn't find any reference, however, I found in All Diciplines 12.8.6.4 that cutout lanyards 1m long are mandatory. I've watched a few national MX events, seen riders take a tumble, and restart their bikes without finding & jamming a lanyard contact back in. Have I misread the rules, or is this one too hard to enforce?
Could someone clarify both these, because with the Nats in my back yard this year, I wouldn't like to show up unprepared.
Mike, its only the above disciplines (in the box above 12.8.6.5)of sidecars and in solos it's speedway.
cheers alison
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...I will be riding this weekend at Kerry God willing ...
I'm going to Kerry for a bit of a look. What's your race number Ji?
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Mike,
Alison's right the lanyards are for sidecars and speedway the book should list the disiplines.
The back number one has thrown me, found where it is required for juniors but not for seniors.
As I said to Ji please don't read the rules too much as you run the risk of knowing more than the officials ;)
The nationals at Ferny Hills, I'm out that way tomorrow, might check out the track, whats your adress ;D
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From what i remember tassie nats had 100 riders and 150 bikes but that was last year so my memory fades :D , the whole bike scruit went through in 1 maybe 2 hours didnt it ? was prity easy and clean sailing based on odds or even i think. so dont worry about the calculations youl be able to eat youor lunch.
As far as Tony Cavell's Beeza went your right the protester just got outgunned by a class rider, cause he didnt just smash the field on the 250 but on all the other classes and bikes he rode in. should have saved his hard earned but it was his right to pay up and roll the dice to ask the question - makes the sport fair and transparent to do so.
I was with Tony when someone handed over the $70 and what they did to test it was clever in that the dispute was capacity based, so all the smart testiing guy had to do was fill up a can with 250cc of oil and poor it in the spark plug if he could see it, it was under and it was so all that needed was for tony to drain out the the oil, no gaskets, no strip downs, no cost to him. Only the inconvienice that he still had 2 rides to go in the next half hour with out a rest.
I thought the testing was handled very cleverly and very professionally i must say, it was fast painless and done in a very simple and painless way that both parties where happy with the outcome.
As far as the name on the jersey thing goes i had both names on mine and numbers and i reckon i was one of about 10 guys in the hundred that did, so i dont think youll have any problems, if in doubt put your number on it at least, but dont do it till your number is excepted incase someone else gets it first and you have to change ( hey pete 52 )
If Dave tanner is doing the eligibility he knows what is right or wrong so dont try and slide stuff in tot he wrong era other wise you will get pulled up, do the right thing and you will sail through, be sure you bike has no missing spokes, throttle that returns and any obvious saftey things, like sprocket covers, unless your 100% youll be running 1-4, you'll just, get do your head in with stuff that in the end wont make a differance to you enjoying the NAtionals, if i can pull a ride up there this year ill be winging it , get the basics done to the bike, everything else can be fixed on the day IF its a problem.
you cant plan for all things or all drongos, but i think the majority of vmx'ers would just be glad you turned up and just rode in the right class, the rest as i said is the small stuff, so dont sweat it. :)
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Ah Rossco,at the tassie nats we considered a urine sample to test you for drugs but
no one would volunteer to hold the sample bottle ;D ;)
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Ah Rossco,at the tassie nats we considered a urine sample to test you for drugs but
no one would volunteer to hold the sample bottle ;D ;)
i caught him a few times out the back with a cough bottle,
then he retired hurt or somthing lame didnt he,
but not 5 mins later i saw those MA testers come round with the breath tester things, so i still wonder to this day ?
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if I didn't love you guys so much I would call you wankers!!!!!
;D
Numbers on riders was stipulated by the hosting club I believe not in GCRs and falls under the (can't remember the technical terms) rules and regs of the day as made by the club ie such as number of laps etc.
Dave Tanner was good on eligibility - Gorby and the boys scrutineered, straight through to Dave (who gave me the Spanish inquistion over my YZB!!!! ;D) and then off you go. Noise testing by random draw.
Gorby - I thought I was going to miss you (from the oteher thread that you won't be there) but now I think maybe not? ;)
cheers
Rossco
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I'm thinking the back numbers on juniors are only used as they are smaller riders and for extra visual for the time keepers/lap scorers,I know they have transponders for timing,but the time keepers still need that extra sight.(maybe thats why) :-X
I liked the below bibs.They where a pretty special touch. :o Are they used in US etc ??
I have since seen them signed separated at the shoulder,then frame along side the programme event cover.
Looks real impressive framed for memories sake.
Bit of work for the committee to make these bibs-well appreciated though. ;D
More pics in VMX mag No 26.
Alison
opps back to scrutineering ;D
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can't help myself - had to put a sidecar one in too. ;D
alison
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Can someone find the rule that says the clubs can over-ride the GCR's esp regarding
1) insisting a rider use a club number even when he or she has an MA competitors number
2) riders having to have a number on their jersey - I know that juniors must display a number but seniors? A lot of riders wear under jersey body armour so does that mean you can be compelled to have numbers on your back? If so the bib idea is far preferable and surely can be included in the riders annual membership fees and be outsourced so the poor old committee can be left to do important things.
Dave Mac ???
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Can someone find the rule that says the clubs can over-ride the GCR's esp regarding
1) insisting a rider use a club number even when he or she has an MA competitors number
2) riders having to have a number on their jersey - I know that juniors must display a number but seniors? A lot of riders wear under jersey body armour so does that mean you can be compelled to have numbers on your back? If so the bib idea is far preferable and surely can be included in the riders annual membership fees and be outsourced so the poor old committee can be left to do important things.
Dave Mac ???
The number displayed for MA on your bike plate is what you are running in the state.MX
Any other would be your club membership number.vmx 8)That's how I perseve it.
Jersey rules, just another fashion statement I'd reckon . ;D
cheers alison
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your race numbers, your state number accepted by the secretary who's putting you in the program that goes for Nats as well, in which case its a first in first served on that one, unless your top 10, you'll get what you request if someone didnt get in before you.
Your supposed to use full lenght back protectors in DT not cages so the number thing is a given you got space on your back use it, and makes for cooler looking PHotos ;D
Having said that, Id like a bib Ali, where do you get them ? bonus with that system is you can change the numbers on race days etc if needed, rather than the confusion if you turn up with duplicate numbers like interstate rides etc.
Plus they look Kewl i reackon , like speedway helmet covers , they look prity spesh too ! :D
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Freaky - one of our club members made these up for us. Allison may have Paul's details but I don't think they would be hard to do - just have some consdieration for those people that wear big, thick armour ;D and make the straps a little longer eh! Helmet Skinz - same as the speedway helmet covers you mention - can be customised to suit now.
cheers
Rossco
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Great ill have some .....................
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Can someone find the rule that says the clubs can over-ride the GCR's esp regarding
1) insisting a rider use a club number even when he or she has an MA competitors number
2) riders having to have a number on their jersey - I know that juniors must display a number but seniors? A lot of riders wear under jersey body armour so does that mean you can be compelled to have numbers on your back? If so the bib idea is far preferable and surely can be included in the riders annual membership fees and be outsourced so the poor old committee can be left to do important things.
Dave Mac ???
The clubs aren't over-riding the GCR's Dave. The "Supplementary" Regulations are just that...additional to the GCR's and therefore can be what ever the organiser sees fit.
Cheers
Shaun
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Great ill have some .....................
Don't know who did them up Freaky/scouts honor.
I suggest you go to a canvas/sewing shop for the bid which will have to be cut out of vinyl,
and a screen printers/graphics place for your numbers/name 8)
or a cloth one can be bought from the sports shop,those B/Ball & Netball bibs. ;D
cheers alison
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I hope they do issue number bibs at the Nats, they do sound cool as a keep sake.
Ji
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im not sure about the netball bib idea alison, although the skirt might be alright............
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Freaky - I don't need to tell people to wake up to you - looks like you do a good enough job of getting yourself into trouble anyway!!!!!
;D
Rossco
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Hi Vandy,
Will the scrutineer be looking for safety wired screws on silencer screws as per
12.8.3.1 Exhaust systems must:
d) Where separate silencers are fitted,
have a minimum of 2 mountings
or locking screws on all machines
which have a capacity in excess of
85cc,
e) Where silencers are re-packable,
have safety wired securing bolts.
Ji
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Ji,
i'll be awefully dissapointed if they don't!
yet they still failed to mention that we should use Stainless Steel lockwire to prevent possible rust infection should we graze ourselves on said lockwire. ;D
my apologies ji,
you did call me out specifically.
as others have mentioned. get youself down to a local meeting, go through the scrutineering process with your bike, live the dream for that one glorious day, enroll in a MAQ scrutineers course, change the brand of tea you drink, forget them CZ thingies and grab your mits on a Yamaha {cause they always pass scrutineering right?}.
my seriousness for all this waffle is somewhat challenged...
my apologies once again......... :)
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Hi Vandy,
Why do members think I have not been at the track.
I was at the Conondale classic, Nudgee and Tamborine tracks last year. I also was at Kerry last weekend. My bike does not have a counter shaft sprocket cover, nor does it have safety wire silencer screws. The scrutineers at all these meetings have checked spokes, bearing play and tyre pressure which are not part of the rules that I can see and yet have not said a thing about the sprocket cover nor the safety wire.
Can you now see why I am asking these questions.
Thanks for the safety wire tip.
Ji
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Ji i have never had safety wire on any of my mx bikes other than to hold the grips on and have never been questioned. I have occasionaly been pulled up for no sprocket cover over the years but only at NSW events. The safety wiring of silencers seems more like a road racing rule. If the scrutineers went through everything in the book on every bike we'd need an extra day just for scrutineering!
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Thanks Johnny,
This is why I am asking.
It seems that the rules are applied only at the Nationals, outside of that it is just what ever the scrutineer saw being checked last time at the track.
Ji
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Ji I think Johnny is right about safety wire and also the time factor involved in scrutineering.the main issues will be the safety ones and any obvious eligibility concerns.As safety wiring is a good practise anyway it wont hurt to do it.At nat level Id reckon sprocket covers are a must have item.Safety wiring looks pretty pro also.
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Lets be honest, In the field it would be very hard to drill a hole in the silencer screw. The screw head height is only 3mm and the safety wire is 0.8mm diameter.
My silencer only has one screw so I will have to add another.
My Maico AW never had a sprocket cover from the factory and there is only one hole at the top of the crank case for a breather hose where a fixture can be installed. It is not an easy thing to do.
Ji
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OK Ji those might be things to discuss with 211 Kawa on his thread in Competition.What's wrong with those Maico guys?Didnt they know not putting a sprocket cover on their bikes in '77 would cause problems for us at the 2009 Oz vintage nats?
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Hi Shortshifter,
I have already asked 211 Kawa this question and he will only be checking class stuff.
I think I have worked out how to do it.
I have images of Maico's and other makes of bikes that were raced last year and they also never had a cover. Some covers I have seen I don't think would pass this rule, not that there is much detail to it.
If we say that it is to protect fingers from danger than we only have to cover the back section of the cog where a finger could get dragged in. So the cover should start at the centre of the counter shaft and shield back past the end of the cog by say 15mm?
Ji
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How about this one Ji? A nice example of a homemade cover on a Maico.
I saw it at Connondale last year.
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Hi Wombat,
Sorry I missed you at Kerry.
It was a pretty unusual track with all the up hills, down hills and off chamber everything else. Great learning track.
That Maico is a 74-75 mine is a 77. The fixture hole in the top of the crankcase had to be drilled in and I am not sure about the bottom fixture. I do not want to modify my engine to comply with this rule. I have decided to use the breather hose hole at the top as a fixture point and extend the leading foot peg bolt as the bottom fixture. This way there is no modification to the engine or chassis.
Thanks for the image of that other Maico I love to see how others have solved this problem.
I hope to see you at the next round.
Ji
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I am unsure why members think I am whinging about making a sprocket cover. I need to know the rule and how it is interpreted other wise I can not design the cover to comply with the rules. I want to make a cover that just complies, no more and no less. Like on all race bikes FIM state that the weight can not be less than 85 kilos. Great, all the factory engineers know to comply with this rule all they have to do is make the bike weigh slightly more than 85 kilos. I think I read some where that most of the top bikes weigh in at 85.9 kilos. Again as a bike restorer/builder to make this cover I need to know how this rule will be applied. The design I posted in reply 106 I feel makes the grade but I would love to hear the opinion from a level 2 scrutineer.
Ji
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How about this cover will it pass?
Ji
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Does this one comply with the rule?
Ji