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Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: asasin on March 02, 2009, 03:32:34 pm

Title: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: asasin on March 02, 2009, 03:32:34 pm
Has any one ever struck a Wisco Piston that was round insted of oval?.I got my RM barrel rebored to a NOS 432 p8 Wiseco and it ran for 2 minutes and seized ( only around the bottom half of the skirt) Sent it back to enging guys who upon much crastination said that the Piston was round.
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: Lozza on March 02, 2009, 07:42:27 pm
Was it an old Wiseco in a blue box?
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: lc4 on March 02, 2009, 07:52:59 pm
I'm told a lot of the Wiseco stuff is now made in good ol CHINA  ::)
Title: Re: Wiseco piston that is round
Post by: Marc.com on March 02, 2009, 08:50:32 pm
Yeah the Chinese do special oval bores to go with those pistons.  ::)

But the Wiseco pistons I have are oval and tapered, says on the box which point to measure from, basically in line with the pin on the opposite side. Likewise crown has taper toward it and skirt. Diameter will be nominal bore - minimum clearance, or it is on the MX250 piston
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: asasin on March 03, 2009, 06:57:05 am
It was a new. old piston judging by the box so should be USA made.I have asked for it back to measure it myself,and ordered a new one  >:( They are going to measure new one against old one to see if there is a problem .It seems very weird as Wisco pistons have never been a problem when ive used them before.
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: Lozza on March 03, 2009, 07:05:30 am
After thinking about this the person who did the rebore should have measured the piston before hand. I'm thinking that the 'round' piston story maybe a cop out.If it was in a sky blue box these old pistons expand rapidly when heated, they should be baked for 2-3hours at 200C and then bored to size off that.
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: Doc on March 03, 2009, 08:14:05 am
personally never seen, had or heard of a problem with Wiseco slugs John (excepting the early blue box dykes type ring pistons as Lozza mentioned) I run NOS wiseco's in near all my engines and would be inclined to also say the bore job may have been sus.  :-\
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: asasin on March 03, 2009, 02:58:24 pm
Thanks Guys I thought it was a bit odd, I have built lots of race engines ( and blown up a few !) I have never seen a piston seize like this one, I Think they got the taper wrong, Thanks for the info re blue box ones. It wasnt one but I have a DT one like it  spare for my Cooper.
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: asasin on March 04, 2009, 02:03:19 pm
Went into engine shop today, they showed me the piston and measured it in frunt of me. It has 2 thou of oval,the new one had 3.5 thou. So we thought we would use the new one , only problem is that the new one was 4 thou smaller than the old one,both 86 mm pistons with same part number.So now I have a beautifully ported and speced barrel that is knackered.Lesson learnt!
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: Doc on March 04, 2009, 03:30:18 pm
I have 2 of these #432 kits on the shelf. Will measure them out of curiosity. I don't ever work in 'thou' period..metric weights and measures only for this black duck ;)
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: Doc on March 04, 2009, 03:58:22 pm
measured 2 wiseco pistons 4.3 and 4.5 thou respectively depending on how I held my tongue whilst 2 stock suzuki pistons both measure a touch over 3 thou. Physically measure the piston yourself with your own calipers as the measurement can easily vary a couple of thou via a little pressure on the calipers.   
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: Freakshow on March 04, 2009, 04:29:56 pm
why did you bore out to P8 ? if i'd spend money on porting id start at a sleeved P1.   or am i missing somthing here....
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: Lozza on March 04, 2009, 05:18:48 pm
You need to measure with a micrometer, still say the shop should have picked that up before hand.Measure twice cut once.  Doc I'm a metric man but for some strange reason piston clearences or small measurements I like to work in thousands of an inch ???
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: LWC82PE on March 04, 2009, 05:29:57 pm
i would not be surprised if you have found a piston not machined right. i had a dud pair of hepolites in a 750 triumph i could not  work out why they kept seizing. my self and my reborer have delt with these pistons for many years, and know what they are like and they are have been the best pistons to use in Triumphs and had always been good up until now so my borer probably didnt do a check as he would have done hundreds of these rebores for hepolites in Triumphs. After stripping the motor and measuring the pistons to work out what the heck was going on i found that there was no taper on the pistons. Phoned the supplier and they said thats the first time they have come across that in 30 or 40 years with these pistons and then gladly sent over a new set free of charge that had been machined correctly.
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: STW996 on March 04, 2009, 05:55:11 pm
To use a piston straight out of the box with out measuring is a dangerous exercise at the best of times little long if you have spent money having a barrel modified. I use the micrometer but unless you are very good with them can get yourself in trouble, the old feeler gauge in the base of the barrel to measure is still a good way to measure and hone the cylinder to suit the piston (if you can't get another piston), Wiseco pistons are generally good but can differ from piston to piston. If you had a workshop do the work they should warrant what they have done as it is the first rule of engine building to measure ALL parts used.
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: Doc on March 04, 2009, 06:45:06 pm
John, did it score the bore? Either way all is not lost. While 56mm is max for the 125BCNT it's std bore for TM/TC/TS/CR125's ;) you just need to do some ring locating pin relocating to stop it hanging up in the ports.
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: LWC82PE on March 04, 2009, 06:47:01 pm
just something on that, when you re loate the pins, do you just drill a tiny hole and jam in the pin? how do you know the pin is going to stay in there and not work loose?
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: Lozza on March 04, 2009, 06:59:34 pm
Having the ring between the ring peg and the bore helps, so does a good interference fit on the peg ::)
Title: Re: Wisco piston that is round
Post by: asasin on March 05, 2009, 12:03:14 pm
Thanks Doc the RM S piston I have just replaced twigged me to that but it comes up 60 thou short in the barrel ,so would have to lathe 60 thou off bottom , may be a way out though.The rebuilder was helpfull after all and has re honed it for free and suggested I take a small "slice" off each side of the piston and try again. Interesting that my RM B book suggests 3 thou clearance weras Wisco reccomend 2 . i will give it a shape up and try again, then go the TM piston way
Cheers
John