OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: ChrisACT on February 12, 2009, 08:37:21 am
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Hey there,
I'm building up a DT2 engined road bike and I was wondering if anyone has ever converted a DT2 engine to 12V electrics?
If so, what did you have to do to it?
Regards,
Chris
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i'd imagine Chris, that you'd just source a later model DT/cdi/stator/flywheel set-up and the rest would kind of fall into place. although my advice/experience ain't worth too much when it comes to lights/indicators and rego~legal stuff as i usually rip all the lights off my bikes and keep em simple.
:)
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Fair enough. Didn't realise the later ones were 12V. I thought they were all 6V. That makes it easier. I was hoping to put something a little more grunty on it though. Would be nice to have lights that actually help when it gets dark.
Anyone know if an RZ350 flywheel would fit on the crank? It's the same style of flywheel.
The ignition is going to be a programmable unit anyway so the CDI is not an issue.
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have a look here,
http://www.powerdynamo.biz/deu/systems/lists/yamaha.php
http://www.roadandraceignitions.co.uk/
http://www.rexcauntracing.com/pages/ig_bsa.html
I would recommend the Power dynamo/MZB systems as I have fitted them to bikes before and they are very high quality. Although there isn’t one listed for your exact model the later DT kit may fit or if you can have a good read of their site, they say they can make a system for you if you provide them with some information.
How much power do you need?
If you just want a 12 volt light then quite simply stick a 12 volt AC regulator on and that’s usually all you need to do.
If you need 12 volt DC to run a DC ignition, then that’s an entire different kettle of fish. You DT would most likely not have enough power to efficiently run a DC system and a 12 volt regulator/rectifier so you would need coils rewound for more out put, or a different stator or even a better flywheel.
I would highly recommend www.bettabikes.com they will have answers for you and can even build you a system from scratch or modify your existing one.
having mucked around with suzuki electics for a while, i have found most of the crank tapers are the same, so the yamaha DT crank shaft ends could also be the same for most of the range.
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Thankyou. That's very helpful.
I'm looking at running a 12V ignition and twin headlights from an FZR250. I would also like to be able to run high wattage bulbs than stock so I'm looking for something with substantially more output than stock. I'll run LED indicators so that will reduce the load when they are operating but the headlights and ignition are the big ticket items for current draw.
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Cannot find a listing with 12v electrics for any Australian DT250. The early AT2 125s had 12v due to their electric starter.
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Cannot find a listing with 12v electrics for any Australian DT250. The early AT2 125s had 12v due to their electric starter.
A big heavy starter/generator ;).
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DC to DC is the way to go, maybe a YZ 125/250 with the electrex stator, rec/reg and battery. Just what are these programable ignitions you speak of.............................
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The Powerdynamo system that LWC3077 linked to cranks out 180Watts (which would be plenty) and fits the DT250A. The DT2 runs the same crankshaft (according to the microfiche it's the same part number anyway) so it should fit the DT2 crank.
The programmable ignition system I'm planning to use is the Ignitech system. This guy I know reckons they're tops but I'm still waiting for him to organise a group buy on them. :P
I'm also looking at using the 2000-2001 YZ250 38mm carb. It has a TPS and electric powerjet which the Ignitech system can interface with.
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which was the powerdynamo kit you were looking at?
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The programmable ignition system I'm planning to use is the Ignitech system.
I'm also looking at using the 2000-2001 YZ250 38mm carb. It has a TPS and electric powerjet which the Ignitech system can interface with.
All on a poor old humble DT :o :o :)
Let us know how it all goes. ;D
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http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/systems/7238/7238dcmain.htm. The original listing says 100W but then it reckons it's 180W. I dunno. Maybe it's only 100W.
It's listed as a DT400 kit but then says "should equally fit DT250A, DT360A, DT250B, DT250C, DT400C and possibly MX360A, MX360B, MX400B, MX400C (but this remains to be confirmed). "
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The programmable ignition system I'm planning to use is the Ignitech system.
I'm also looking at using the 2000-2001 YZ250 38mm carb. It has a TPS and electric powerjet which the Ignitech system can interface with.
All on a poor old humble DT :o :o :)
Let us know how it all goes. ;D
It's sort of a DT. A bit of a road project. I think it's fair to say that the only DT parts on this bike will be the engine, frame and maybe the swingarm. The wheels, front end, brakes and headlights will be from the FZR250. So, it'll be a bit of a Frankenstein bike.
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ok gotcha. yeah with the 70AC vs 100 watt system they reckon the stator is the same but just the regualtor is different? it doesnt make sense unless the regulators are regulating what is comming out of the stator. its sounds like the 100wDC/70w Ac are just quoting what regulator they come with and what they are regulated to. Normally the AC out put would be more than the DC. rectification to DC typically equates to power loss of 1/3,so if they have a stator that produces 100 watt DC therotically it could produce 150 watts AC. this is what i want to ask them as i prefer a AC light system and i want ask if i buy any of their 70 or 100 watt systems, what is the raw AC output, so then i can fit my own higher rated AC regulator.
do you have a website for the Ignitech system?
ahh found it easy
http://www.ignitech.cz/english/aindex.htm
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im wondering how your going to combine the ignitech programable CDI with the power dynamo system? the power dynamo system from what i can tell uses a all in one CDI unit and ignition coil? its a bit hard to tell, i would like to see detailed wiring from the each coil on the stator. Maybe you can get them to build a system with out ignition side of things and to use the ignitech ignition system?
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I guess the real issue is that it potentially only puts out 100W, which won't be enough. The headlights I was going to run are 55W x 2 on high beam. I imagine I need something along the lines of 150W.
I've shot an email off to bettabikes. I'll see what they have to say.
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maybe you could use 2 x 35 watt halogen globes? I know Betta bikes is busy at the moment as i got a SR 500 system down there now and they havent got to it yet. i would be asking power dynamo exactly what that system puts out ignoring their regulators and say you can use your own higher rated one. thats what im going to do.
also might be something usefull here
http://www.electrexworld.co.uk
also dont forget to see what PVL do
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My last bike had one 35W halogen in it. It was truly pathetic in terms of light output. But we'll see. With any luck, I'll be able to find a way of having enough grunt.
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yeah i know what you mean but there are some new type 35 watt globes that arent too bad. thats the advantage of AC, you have more power.
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I suppose the obvious thing to try would be to see what kind of stator and flywheel are on the FZR250. After all, it would be able to power it's own headlights. Maybe there is a way of adapting it to run on the DT2 crankshaft.
I have a complete FZR250 as a donor bike. The engine is shagged. Only 90psi in each cylinder after supposedly 34,000kms. More like 134,000kms. But not my problem. Was a cheap donor bike. Everything else on it is in great nick apart from a crack on one side of the fairing. S'pose I should yank the ignition cover off it and see what's in there. I doubt it would work but ya never know unless ya look.
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modifying/changing things to suit different crank tapers or changing crank tapers is possible. i know Betta Bikes has experience with that sort of thing.
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http://www.cmsnl.com/img/partslist/generator-fzr400a-1990_bigYAU1136C-1.gif (http://www.cmsnl.com/img/partslist/generator-fzr400a-1990_bigYAU1136C-1.gif)
That's the generator from the FZR400. I assume it would be very similar if not the same as the one on the FZR250.
It's the same style of flywheel as the DT2. Just a matter of whether or not it fits. Although, the FZR does rev to 18,500RPM. The DT2 will be lucky to see anything north of 9,000RPM even with the fairly serious port job and pipe I plan to run on it. Mind you, being a smoker, it won't often rev under 4,500RPM unless I'm stopped.
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Someglowing endorsements of "betta" bikes service CLICK HERE (http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=647.0).Crank tapers are normaly a 12deg included angle just the diameter varies, so if you can count to six and set the compound slide on the lathe your half way there.
Ignitech's run DC/DC those German ones are HV types, beside you don't want to messing around with all that hi-tech stuff Leith,it will do your head in ;D Might know where one of those TPS/Solenoid equiped carbs are Chris. ;)
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Interesting, Lozza. So, about this carb .......... :D
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OK, really old thread here but progress is being made, albeit slowly.
I've been in touch with the lads at PowerDynamo (http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/systems/7238/7238dcmain.htm (http://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/systems/7238/7238dcmain.htm)) over in Germany as to whether or not their DT250A kit will fit a DT3.
It's starting to look like it will. Certainly the stator base plate will fit. It's now just a matter of determining whether or not the rotor fits the crank.
But earlier in this thread the question was asked how much current will the new system crank out. The website was a bit vague and had two different figures quoted.
Well, I have it from the horses mouth now.
They have two different rotors available. They can provide an internal trigger or an external trigger.
So with the small rotor (103mm) and an internal trigger you get 100W
With the small rotor and an external trigger you get 150W
The large rotor (112mm) and an internal trigger you get 180W
The large rotor with an external trigger you get 220W.
The difference is mainly strength of magnets and that one magnet is missing for the internal trigger.
Oh and the exchange rate is slightly more favourable now than it was when I started this thread. 252 euros for the whole system is about $340 plus shipping.
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Problem solved.
My DT3 already has a DT250 ignition on it proving that they are interchangable, provided you swap both the stator and rotor over. You can't mix and match. The DT3 rotor has 6 small magnets. The DT250 rotor has 4 larger magnets. They are also slightly different diameters although they weigh the same.
Therefore, the Powerdynamo DT250/DT400 system will fit a DT1/DT2/DT3/RT1/RT2/RT3.
I'll be going for the 220W external trigger system. I'll see if they can bung an extra dynamo coil in it seeing as I'm not going to use their magneto CDI and would prefer more 12V power to run the Ignitech system.
Worst case scenario, I'll have 220W to play with.
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I'm two days too late (in the two year old thread...) to offer anything useful on the original questions, but I will say "what about fitting HID lights"?
Compared to halogens, they'll drop the elecrical power requirement to about one-third.
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I'm two days too late (in the two year old thread...) to offer anything useful on the original questions, but I will say "what about fitting HID lights"?
Compared to halogens, they'll drop the elecrical power requirement to about one-third.
Hey Nathan,
Yeah HID's could be an option except that the stock DT250 lighting coil only cranks out 30W at 6V.
I've got to do a 12V conversion anyway to run the ignition. May as well have plenty of grunt while I'm at it.
Also, HID's are slow to react when switching from low beam to high beam. And then there's the extra weight of the ballasts. Not very heavy I know but I'm trying to make this bike as light as possible. Plus I'd have to find somewhere to hide the ballasts too.