OzVMX Forum

Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: Tim754 on January 13, 2009, 01:07:22 pm

Title: TM250 1975
Post by: Tim754 on January 13, 2009, 01:07:22 pm

Likely opening a can of scalded worms here.. but , how is the 75 TM250 so radically different from the 74 one, as to stop it being taken as a "follow on type" model. I honestly have missed the discussion. Please just the facts as I will except them. Tim754

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Marc.com on January 13, 2009, 01:14:22 pm

http://www.vintage-suzuki.com/brochures/1975_Suzuki_TM250.jpg

BNG....bold new graphics

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Tim754 on January 13, 2009, 01:16:47 pm

That's what I was studying.. Please continue.

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Freakshow on January 13, 2009, 02:19:18 pm

Rear swing arm, thats it.  parently its differant width and shock pos by a few mm,

from what i can tell, got both here, but only look differant if you squint. 
I have put it down to just one of those things, if you can get it changed, i got a few 75 here i could flood the market with and get a few more folks on the track racing.  ultimately its not a Rm, but then again its a 75 model and them the rules, ( AKA the MX250B etc)

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Maico31 on January 13, 2009, 02:26:11 pm

The shocks are moved on the swingarm and also the top mount on the frame giving them more rear wheel travel than the '74 model.

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Marc.com on January 13, 2009, 03:02:03 pm

Just ride it anyway, whats a few mms between friends.  ;

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Freakshow on January 13, 2009, 04:26:09 pm

YEs you would think if you limited the travel to 4 1/2 inch shock there wouldnt be a problem, but the rules are there.

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Marc.com on January 13, 2009, 04:39:42 pm

I think it is in the spirit of the event to restamp the frame  ;D

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: JC on January 13, 2009, 05:54:18 pm

Gear ratios are also slightly different.

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Doc on January 13, 2009, 06:48:44 pm

Contentious to say the least. It should be a flow on and so should an MX250B. Does seem very silly with these '75 models (and some '76) still out there but not ridden at all due to being placed within the wrong era :-\ in my eyes a TM is a TM is a TM no matter how I look at it or what year model designation it carries. A '75 model is not going to put a cat among the pidgeons but mearily add to the numbers as Freaky says.       

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Freakshow on January 13, 2009, 08:18:21 pm

Our in our case DOC just adding more pigeons, right

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: oldfart on January 13, 2009, 09:03:04 pm

Are you blokes trying to  wind me up again, as this has been discussed at great length on another post 
The out come is .... It's a 75 model and thats it
Rear swing arm shock mount is moved up arm , swing arm beefed up also . Top shock mount moved forward

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: VMX247 on January 13, 2009, 09:25:47 pm

Are we being Nice in 09 Mr Wasp,ya gotta a sting happening  8)

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Marc.com on January 13, 2009, 09:28:54 pm

Quote from: Doc on January 13, 2009, 06:48:44 pm

A '75 model is not going to put a cat among the pigeons but merely add to the numbers as Freaky says.       

too true, numbers are everything, not like there is a HUGE technical advantage, no more than changing to aftermarket swing arm and shocks gives you.

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: YSS on January 13, 2009, 09:35:59 pm

If you realy want to race it , race it in the right class . Unless winning is everything to you . Then you just bought the wrong bike , simple is it ?

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Tim754 on January 13, 2009, 11:52:08 pm

Oldfart has concisely answered my question Thank you. I can see the differences clearly now.
PS Did I mention anything about wanting to ride a 1975 TM in Pre75? NO I DID NOT!!!!  I just wanted to know (as asked) what differences there are!!!!!  It IS a pre78 or pre80 bike OK.
  F*** me ! It is Tim754 here, many must realise by now I am a  bit of stickler for bikes/sidecars being raced in their correct bloody classes!!!  >:(

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Doc on January 14, 2009, 09:19:56 am

jeez some people get a bee in their bonnet over little discussions ;) Everyone is entitiled to their own opinion and my opinion is the rules need an overhaul. Ask me if I really care if this ever happens or not and no, I couldn't give a damn as I've decided I'm going to do my own thing. Being old fuddy duddies isn't ever going to attract more numbers. I read recently in a large online MX forum that the general concencious amongst the current generations of mx'ers is that vintage racers are nothing but a cranky bunch of old guys on old bikes.. Sorry but I don't fit this catagory but I can sort of see why remarks like these do hold some substance ::)

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: firko on January 14, 2009, 09:55:04 am

Wow...an online eligibility argument and nobody told me!.....I'm hurt. :'(
Doc...that modern forum describing vintage racers as cranky old farts wouldn't be the ADB forum by any chance?` If so, that "discussion" has some behind the scenes political history and no, I'm only involved in a minor peripheral way.  ;) It's one bloke with influence who happens to have a beef with a couple of vintage folks, manipulating the forum for a little mischief. The "cranky" description rings a lot of bells with regard to that particular individual.
Over the years I've had a lot of contact with a riders in the modern motocross scene through my magazine work and if the truth be known, most of them don't know that vintage racing exists, let alone describing us as cranky old farts. Those that do know of vintage motocross are often surprised by how cool the bikes are and are genuinely interested.....Like all forums Doc, the threads can be very easily hijacked by devious folks with certain agendas.

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: bigk on January 14, 2009, 10:27:37 am

I have found that vintage riders are generally the other way round, cool, relaxed, easy going & friendly. Sure there are 1 or 2 who can be a bit "cranky" in certain situations, but it's by far not the norm. I find modern racers to be the cranky uptight  ones, after all most of them are racing for the sheep station ($2 trophy) at the end of the meeting. My interest in modern racing took a big down turn last season when I was blatantly taken out in the first lap of practise for gods sake! I had the line but the guy behind me was on a mission to win the practise and he just T boned me and we both went down in a screaming heap. He got up and f*&$ed off, while I was left tangled up in my bike. No injuries, but twisted front end, broken gear lever, broken brake lever. This guy was not an over eager 16 year old either, but over 40 and should have known better. It's the Walt Disney Goofy & Mr. Speed thing. Some people pull a helmet on and disengage the brain. Vintage racers are usually not like that, if you need to give someone a bit of room, you do.
Cheers,
K

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Husky500evo on January 14, 2009, 11:05:43 am

I have found the same thing in the past , when I have raced my Evo bike in the vets class against over 35 year olds on modern bikes . That class is full of has-been wannabe's & is the most dangerous place to be at most motocross meetings . These older guys on moderns get their egos bruised if you pass them on a 25 year old bike & come back at you at the next corner , riding over their head . I find it far safer & more enjoyable riding in with the young guys on moderns , in the open clubman class , as they usually show a bit of respect & sometimes make comments on how cool the older bikes are .

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: PJR on January 14, 2009, 12:51:49 pm

There are bikes that 'probably' should be allowed in pre 75 VMX but you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. I would imagine that a '75 TM would be kosher if the rear subframe was modified back to 1974 standards or if all of the mechanicals transferred over to an earlier frame. My mate has been racing a '75 TM 250 in a '73 frame since 1990 and not a single person has ever said a word about it. In fact his TM400 has a '76 TS400 engine and he actually trophied on the pig at the Nats at Ravenswood a few years ago. Drakeford was the scrutinneer too and we all know he was a tough scrutineer but he still missed it, or didn't care  ;).

I occasionally race modern vets class and agree that old racer agression is far angrier than with the young blokes. Like BigK, I've been T boned or taken out by a couple of testosterone overloaded old farts on a mission. It's as if they're going through some sort of mid life crisis and have to prove their macho to the missus in the pits. It's a much nicer vibe at the vintage races where it's mainly about the bikes and not about the ego.

For some wanker on a forum calling vintage riders cranky and saying that his opinion represents the overall thoughts of modern racers is stretching it a little Doc. Most mod racers don't have any clues about vintage racing and wouldn't have an opinion either way. Even when I've raced my CR480 against the moderns, it's only the older blokes who show the slightest interest in the bike, and that's usually a comment on the drum brakes.

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: VMX247 on January 14, 2009, 01:19:51 pm

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I have actually seen woman get off on there husbands having there macho midlife crisis on a modern bike.Sometimes its down right embarrassing and other times a wee bit sad  :o
Then again I have seen this scenario switch too.  :o
ps and is wasn't me  8)


As long as the bike is at least 3/4 parts pre class,the scrutineer would be on a balancing act,would he not. ???

After December 31st 1974, they stopped making bikes   :-* 

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: paul on January 14, 2009, 01:51:07 pm

not sure if id watch the race or the pits , :o :o :o :o :o pits i think
were would you look  waspy  old twat with little cofirmation  or a old twat on a modern bike

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: VMX247 on January 14, 2009, 01:55:47 pm

its a figure of speech, not the actual act  :-\
trust you Wasp   8)

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on January 14, 2009, 02:31:39 pm

off topic but whats new around here for 09!  I had a short foray into modern MX recently as a local club tried to help us get the EVO's off the ground by hosting some races for us.  All I will say is that the atmosphere and help around a Vintage meet is way, way better than at a modern meet - geez I didn't realise every race was for the Australian titles!!!!  Complete strangers would help out at a Vintage meet and they later became good friends (mind you the ribbing I am getting at the moment about kidney belts makes me wonder!!!).

 :P :P :P :P


Rossco

Title: Re: TM250 1975
Post by: VMX247 on January 14, 2009, 02:43:33 pm

MX/VMX Politically they are the same,but socially they are not.
This of course is because of the age different and we are all just maturer. ;D

junior mx:gone are the days of saving every penny to buy a bike ,now its who is going to best at SX tricks on the weekend.