OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: firko on January 11, 2009, 12:51:13 pm
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Those of you who are sheeties, boilermakers or work in the metal trades in general might get a nostalgic smile out of this. IOh for those great old pre occupational health and safety days. Not a pair of goggles or an "idiot proof" machine guard in sight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69dAG2cYkDA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69dAG2cYkDA)
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The very same year they were getting bombed and shot at by Japs,Krauts and wogs so i don`t figure a piece of sheetmetal in the eye was anything to worry about
But , like you i miss the simpler ways just to make a quid
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Cool, Thats inspired me to go out the garage an start beating some metal around ;) Damb beer fridge's out there :P
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G'day viewers my son Tom starts his apprenticeship as a sheet metal worker tomorrow 12/1/09 I'm real happy ;D 8) ;) jimson
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Good on ya Tom ,well done jimson
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This how it's done in 2009, Wasp you can see why I want a black belt in Solidworks
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=iaJnetmfizc&feature=related
Good luck Tom
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G'day viewers my son Tom starts his apprenticeship as a sheet metal worker tomorrow 12/1/09 I'm real happy ;D 8) ;) jimson
Congratulations Tom,the world will be your at your feet when you have finish,Enjoy.
Steven & Alison WA
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As much as Solidworks and other CNC programs are undoubtably the new way of doing it , I truly hope that young Tom learns all of the old fashioned manual marking off skills and hand tooling skills shown in the 1942 video and that I learned as an aprentice. All the computer power in the world can't replace a good tradesman.......Go for it Tom, it's a great and interesting trade with all sorts of future job potential.
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Well said Firko , we have two of those Solid Works wizzards in YSS . Its great , its fast and we would not be where we are without it. But .... . first you need the Idea , then you need the scetch and when its all designed and prototyped , you still need the old tradesman to finish the product off. So one without the other is a very slow process. The future problem will be , where do the old tradesmen get their expirience from ?
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ENGINEER IDENTIFICATION TEST;
You walk into a room and notice that a picture is hanging crooked.
You...
A. Straighten it.
B. Ignore it.
C. Buy a CAD system and spend the next six months designing a solar-powered, self-adjusting picture frame while often stating aloud your belief that the inventor of the nail was a total moron.
The correct answer is "C" but partial credit can be given to anybody who writes "It depends" in the margin of the test or simply blames the whole stupid thing on "Marketing."
SOCIAL SKILLS
Engineers have different objectives when it comes to social interaction.
"Normal" people expect to accomplish several unrealistic things from social interaction:
*Stimulating and thought-provoking conversation
*Important social contacts
*A feeling of connectedness with other humans
In contrast to "normal" people, engineers have rational objectives for social interactions:
*Get it over with as soon as possible.
*Avoid getting invited to something unpleasant.
*Demonstrate mental superiority and mastery of all subjects.
FASCINATION WITH GADGETS
To the engineer, all matter in the universe can be placed into one of two categories: (1)things that need to be fixed, and (2)things that will need to be fixed after you've had a few minutes to play with them. Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems. Normal people don't understand this concept; they believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
No engineer looks at a television remote control without wondering what it would take to turn it into a stun gun. No engineer can take a shower without wondering if some sort of Teflon coating would make showering unnecessary. To the engineer, the world is a toy box full of sub-optimized and feature-poor toys.
FASHION AND APPEARANCE
Clothes are the lowest priority for an engineer, assuming the basic thresholds for temperature and decency have been satisfied. If no appendages are freezing or sticking together, and if no genitalia or mammary glands are swinging around in plain view, then the objective of clothing has been met. Anything else is a waste.
LOVE OF "STAR TREK"
Engineers love all of the "Star Trek" television shows and movies. It's a small wonder, since the engineers on the starship Enterprise are portrayed as heroes, occasionally even having sex with aliens. This is much more glamorous than the real life of an engineer, which consists of hiding from the universe and having sex without the participation of other life forms.
DATING AND SOCIAL LIFE
Dating is never easy for engineers. A normal person will employ various indirect and duplicitous methods to create a false impression of attractiveness. Engineers are incapable of placing appearance above function.
Fortunately, engineers have an ace in the hole. They are widely recognized as superior marriage material: intelligent, dependable, employed, honest, and handy around the house. While it's true that many normal people would prefer not to date an engineer, most normal people harbor an intense desire to mate with them, thus producing engineer-like children who will have high-paying jobs long before losing their virginity.
Male engineers reach their peak of sexual attractiveness later than normal men, becoming irresistible erotic dynamos in their mid thirties to late forties. Just look at these examples of sexually irresistible men in technical professions:
* Bill Gates.
* MacGyver.
* Etcetera.
Female engineers become irresistible at the age of consent and remain that way until about thirty minutes after their clinical death. Longer if it's a warm day.
HONESTY
Engineers are always honest in matters of technology and human relationships. That's why it's a good idea to keep engineers away from customers, romantic interests, and other people who can't handle the truth.
Engineers sometimes bend the truth to avoid work. They say things that sound like lies but technically are not because nobody could be expected to believe them. The complete list of engineer lies is listed below.
"I won't change anything without asking you first."
"I'll return your hard-to-find cable tomorrow."
"I have to have new equipment to do my job."
"I'm not jealous of your new computer."
FRUGALITY
Engineers are notoriously frugal. This is not because of cheapness or mean spirit; it is simply because every spending situation is simply a problem in optimization, that is, "How can I escape this situation while retaining the greatest amount of cash?"
POWERS OF CONCENTRATION
If there is one trait that best defines an engineer it is the ability to concentrate on one subject to the complete exclusion of everything else in the environment. This sometimes causes engineers to be pronounced dead prematurely. Some funeral homes in high-tech areas have started checking resumes before processing the bodies. Anybody with a degree in electrical engineering or experience in computer programming is propped up in the lounge for a few days just to see if he or she snaps out of it.
RISK
Engineers hate risk. They try to eliminate it whenever they can. This is understandable, given that when an engineer makes one little mistake, the media will treat it like it's a big deal or something.
EXAMPLES OF BAD PRESS FOR ENGINEERS
* Hindenberg.
* Space Shuttle Challenger.
* SPANet(tm)
* Hubble space telescope.
* Apollo 13.
* Titanic.
* Ford Pinto.
* Corvair.
The risk/reward calculation for engineers looks something like this:
RISK: Public humiliation and the death of thousands of innocent people.
REWARD: A certificate of appreciation in a handsome plastic frame.
Being practical people, engineers evaluate this balance of risks and rewards and decide that risk is not a good thing. The best way to avoid risk is by advising that any activity is technically impossible for reasons that are far too complicated to explain.
If that approach is not sufficient to halt a project, then the engineer will fall back to a second line of defense: "It's technically possible but it will cost too much."
EGO
Ego-wise, two things are important to engineers:
* How smart they are.
* How many cool devices they own.
The fastest way to get an engineer to solve a problem is to declare that the problem is unsolvable. No engineer can walk away from an unsolvable problem until it's solved. No illness or distraction is sufficient to get the engineer off the case. These types of challenges quickly become personal -- a battle between the engineer and the laws of nature.
Engineers will go without food and hygiene for days to solve a problem. (Other times just because they forgot.) And when they succeed in solving the problem they will experience an ego rush that is better than sex--and I'm including the kind of sex where other people are involved.
Nothing is more threatening to the engineer than the suggestion that somebody has more technical skill. Normal people sometimes use that knowledge as a lever to extract more work from the engineer. When an engineer says that something can't be done (a code phrase that means it's not fun to do), some clever normal people have learned to glance at the engineer with a look of compassion and pity and say something along these lines: "I'll ask Bob to figure it out. He knows how to solve difficult technical problems."
At that point it is a good idea for the normal person to not stand between the engineer and the problem. The engineer will set upon the problem like a starved Chihuahua on a pork chop.
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That sounds familiar ;D
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A good read is a Kevin Cameron article(available in a book called TDC a collection of his columns from Cycle World) called "Old World Craftmanship" will dispell any myths about old and new skills.
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The Engineer has a dream, the Tradesman makes it a Reality.
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i'm with you old fart.
Tradesmen rethink/rectify the problems that engineers create that don't work.
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Thanks for the congrats for young Tom. He said no computers in the work shop just some big ass lathe the size of a big car ;D THAT WILL COME IN HANDY ;D I think he spent the day polishing stainless as they do a lot of work for boats :) jimson
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Hey Mark, thats a great read. Most of it is so 'close to the bone' - I can vouch for that. Hilariously true at times. Does one good to have a good laugh at oneself.
I could add the biggest frustration for an engineer - when bean counters curb/veto his preferred design/fix-it cos they won't spend the necessary $$$. Most famous example is the space shuttle Challenger
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G'day fellas thanks for encouragement :) yesturday arvo while i was standing there buffing back the hand rails on a 40ft boat copping mouthfull after mouthfull of wax and fine little hairs off the buffing wheel i was thinking to myself "What am i doing this for again?" .Today i relised why (http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg99/Tombailey18/100_1682.jpg)
I learnt to tig weld ;D ;D ;D i can just picture it now alloy swingarms,bashguards,tanks,exhausts even frames :D and another good thing i get to drive on my L's with dad every morning and scare the S@#$t out of him to haha ;) Tom
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Good on ya Tom. That weld is a lot better than on a certain Aussie brand silencer and you've only been doing it a day!
Keep it up mate, tig welding is the art of the metal industry. Some people try their whole lives and never get it. You're on the way. Will brazing and oxy welding be a part of your course, or are those skills on the outer?
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Thanks firko its a great feeling ;D i learnt to oxy weld,mig weld,stick weld and braze last year at school ;) .My dads got a bigger grin on his face then me :D
Tom
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In our sons class at the beginning of last year all the students got to do probably the same as you Tom and the best welder was the emo guy,can't chop wood ,town boy and he was just like an artist drawing away,amazing stuff,he's going to go far with his welding.
may the gift be with you ;D
great weld pic above ,your on a roll. 8)
ps don't scare ya dad too much ;) ;D
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As a sheetie by trade, welcome to the A team Tom. The only advice I can offer is to learn the correct old school marking out principles before you even think about getting into the cad programs. It'll all make much more sense to you if you are aware of the bacic drafting principles behind every design. Perfect your tig welding also as there are so few good tig welders out there. There are a lot who reckon they're shit hot but trust me when I tell you that good tiggers are as rare as shit and can name their own price. If you get the opportunity try and learn to weld titanium and magnesium. It's extremely difficult until you finally get thre technique right but once you do you have become a member of a very exclusive club. You'll have the trickest bike in the paddock by the time you're into your second year!
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haha thanks old phil im going to be finished buffing up the boat rails tomoz thank god :D and my work mates said i should be able to help them start welding up boat petrol tanks and stuff soonish. I've already started thinking bout making an aluminum frame and swingarm and slipping my spare "81 cr125" engine in for a bit of fun ;D Tom
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I'm also a sheetie by trade & have to agree with Old Phil.
CAD programs are a good tool but you need to know what your marking out, trouble is young guys don't get a lot of experiance at this these days as a lot of parts are designed in the office & precut & bent when the tradesman recieves them.
Polishing can be a real chore but it's good to know how to go about it. If you can perfect your TIG welding then the firm will find you too valuable to have you spend time on polishing.
Stainless site work is where the moneys at.
I could use a TIG welder here to help me but all the good ones are making good money on site.
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Go Tom ! ;D Trades people will be more and more like gold as time goes forward. Cheers Tim754
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I work in the maintenance dept of a winery, and all the other guys in the dept are excellent tig welders. Fortunately I have a great boss, and even though I am the site electrician, he is happy for me to learn to TIG weld. The practice piece that I am working on in my spare time will eventually be a SS exhaust system for one of my 500 Yamahas.
CJ
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Good luck with your trade too Tom !
I know there are a lot of tradies on this site. I did fitting / maching / toolmaking back in the 70's and it definitely has given me an edge in life.
I would hate to be one of those poor guys who don't know one end of a hammer, spanner micrometer or whatever - absolutely nothing wrong with getting your hands dirty to make a living !!!
Just some advice -
Don't just sit at home at night - see what other courses are on offer and do the lot. An all rounder is hard to beat especially when jobs get tight. I did a journeyman's course in panel beating at night tech for something to do - you combine that with being sheetie and we'll be watching you on Foxtel some day making all manner of trick stuff !!!
Dave Mac
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Yes totally agree... maicomc490t
With the job losses in the West... loads more people are now enrolling in TAFE (further education) class's to get that extra certificate that is needed, as the competition/paperwork is a real thing in a interview
now days.....more the merrier... 8)
example: 16 years working in a high rise building as business managers secretary.....throws job in..............
looks for new job..............has not one certificate in Business studies...........
so she doesn't get the job applied for............. some other 19 year old gets it :-\
Actually this started 10 years ago,Steven had electrical trade then that became electrical engineering. :-\
cheers Alison
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http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=6186.msg61261;topicseen#msg61261
Hows it going Tom ???
bit of info/ideas in the above for you Tom on welding....
cheers
Mum of an ET student ;D
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Yeah Tom how are you doing?
My 'boy' is loving the panel beating with his indenture now signed etc, and is hoping he can do a night course in spray painting (I'm hoping he does too, lol ;))
I've promised him a hand with some expensice gear for pulling dents out of tanks and other stuff - not that I would ever call on him to use it for my restos (much)
All of the trades are going to be able to command good money and sadly if we enter an economic flat-line it may well be the tradies who come out of it best of all.
Dave Mac
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I work in the maintenance dept of a winery,
Now if that was a brewery it would be my dream job ;D
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Here you go jimson/Tom,,,,Bit of Overseas work if needed ;D
Ethanol pipeline an economic boon for US
JACQUI FATKA
21 Jan, 2010 10:22 AM
A PROPOSED ethanol pipeline would be an economic boost for the US, creating almost 80,000 direct, indirect and induced jobs across the country, a new report demonstrates.
In 2007, Magellan Midstream Partners LP began assessing the feasibility of an 1800-mile ethanol pipeline running from Midwest ethanol production facilities to distribution outlets in the Northeast (Feedstuffs, Feb. 28, 2008). POET, the nation's largest ethanol producer, joined the effort in early 2009 (Feedstuffs, March 23, 2009).
The two have formed a joint venture to assess the feasibility of the pipeline, which would start in Davison County, S.D., and end in Linden, N.J.
"Pipelines are the most cost-efficient, safest and most reliable mode of transportation for liquid energy," Magellan chief operating officer Mike Mears said.
When completed and operational, this pipeline would have the capacity to ship 240,000 barrels of ethanol per day. This amounts to more than 3.6 billion gal. of ethanol, or about one-fourth of the ethanol mandated for use in 2015 by the renewable fuel standard provision of the Energy Independence & Security Act of 2007.
POET has a network of 35 plants in eight states that produce more than 1.8 billion gal. of ethanol annually, and many of its plants are on the pipeline route.
Magellan and POET will invest more than $4 billion to develop and construct the ethanol pipeline between 2010 and 2014, when it is scheduled to become operational.
Economic impact
A recent report from consulting firm LECG LLC shows that the majority of the jobs created from the ethanol pipeline will be in the construction and transportation industries, with more than 50,000 jobs coming from construction alone.
The pipeline project would provide approximately 1100 permanent jobs after construction is completed. Magellan estimated that 143 jobs will be directly associated with ongoing pipeline operations.
The report notes that the largest share of expenditures and job creation is associated with construction activities that take place in years four and five of project development. Spending and job creation in the first several years of the project are primarily associated with project development, permitting and engineering.
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Those of you who are sheeties, boilermakers or work in the metal trades in general might get a nostalgic smile out of this. IOh for those great old pre occupational health and safety days. Not a pair of goggles or an "idiot proof" machine guard in sight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69dAG2cYkDA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69dAG2cYkDA)
I get a smile out of American Chopper when the Pauls and everyone else are blazing and grinding away without a pair of goggles in site. God bless the USA nobody getting pissy pants about a few welding sparks.
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All of the trades are going to be able to command good money and sadly if we enter an economic flat-line it may well be the tradies who come out of it best of all.
Dave Mac
I am enjoying the economy going down a bit, I am getting to fire a few tradies who were over paid and under skilled. getting a lot more people to my door who act like they want and value a job. I think a little recession will be great to sort the chaff from the wheat.
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I often have to think twice when I pick up something to cut or grind if i'll would be able to ride as well with only 1 eye-or not ride at all with none-so I put the glasses on. And the ear muffs so I can pick up a knock in the roaring XS engine at speed down a main straight.(amongst all the other banging and crashing!!)