OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: E74 on January 02, 2009, 10:07:14 pm
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I am just finnishing off my CR125RA, just waiting on the Novation "works" swingarm and the Ohlins shocks and then I can assemble the bike, the only thing concerning me now is the Mugen Banzai kit that will be fitted which makes the bike watercooled, though the kit was available when the bike was current does this push the bike out of evo class?, Not gunna be happy if it does.... :(
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Man, for all of the debate surrounding the finer details of Evo, this is dead simple:
Evo bikes must be air cooled.
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we would probably let you run
up here in qld as we race for fun ;D
but nathans right you would struggle at state and nat events :'(
and i dont mean struggle riding it
you would not get through scrutineering :'(
better bring it to cd6 ;D
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"Proof of eligability lies with the entrant" so goes the rule. You will need photographs/race report/magazine article of it being raced in the period.Good case for log books.
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Are you going to run it at a national event? Other than that, run it. It is as period as it gets and is an evo bike. I personally would not have a problem even at a national event. I dont think its wrong, just a matter of the headache associated with people that have nothing better to do than protest.
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It is as period as it gets and is an evo bike. I personally would not have a problem even at a national event. I dont think its wrong, just a matter of the headache associated with people that have nothing better to do than protest.
Evo doesn't talk about/define a period - just air-cooled, drum-braked, and no linkage.
I agree in principle - it wouldn't offend me if someone wanted to race such a beast... And let's face it, very few of us would ever get the opportunity to see a Mugen bike being ridden, much less raced. Personally, I'd love to see it.
But emotion aside, it doesn't meet the Evo rules, so it would have to race as a pre-85 bike.
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well thats just stupid, this means I can run my YZ125D with Noguchi watercoolong kit in pre 78, but I can't run the Banzai Mugen in Evo ??? ??? ???, No wonder none of the trick bikes never make it to the track, too many scruitinazi's out there , and I certainly don't have the temprement to deal with them,... >:(
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OK it is a big pain to you 74 and yes some specials certainly are hard done by, but that was how the class rules were envisaged and so written. Too be brief but easier to understand by all. Tim754
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Don't slit your throat just yet mate. A majority of people would welcome it with open arms and common sense would prevail . Who in there right mind would have an issue with it. It IS an evo bike, just with period trick bits on it. You have just found a rare issue that needs to be addressed in the rules, to except period upgrades which include water cooling. I feel the swingarm would be of more concern as i dont think it is a period knock off. Those factory looking arms (i am talking out my arse here as i only think that this is the case) as you have bought were from 81 on. Please correct me if i am wrong here.
To ask the same question again, would you take it to a national event? Would you figure in the top three placings if you did?
Bring it and bring it often i say. A beautiful thoroughbred needs to be out there .
I will be keen to see the end result.
If it is too hard and you want to move it on upon completion, i will sell a kidney to own it if i have to :D
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i thought you lost a kidney over the
jump at stanmore last week ;D ;D
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Evo - AIR COOLED, drum brakes, no linkage.
If you cannot understand that then you should not debate eligibility.
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well thats just stupid, this means I can run my YZ125D with Noguchi watercoolong kit in pre 78, but I can't run the Banzai Mugen in Evo ??? ??? ???, No wonder none of the trick bikes never make it to the track, too many scruitinazi's out there , and I certainly don't have the temprement to deal with them,... >:(
No you can't run a water cooled bike in pre-78 - there's a rule in there that specifically prohibits water-cooled bikes.
Look, I've been (and remain) quite critical of the wording of the rules, but their intent is well supported among the punters: To get bikes out there racing, and keep those bikes representative of the bikes that were racing 'in the day'. The 'no water cooling' bit is simply designed to stop people adapting later model production bits and otherwise creating ultra-fast 'specials' that never existed in the day. This is historic racing, remember.
AFAIK, you're the first person to seriously want to build and race a bike that's been converted to water-cooling in the history of Australian VMX - so don't go sprouting off about scrutinazis or the idiocy of the rules, because its simply a new issue that needs to be addressed, and you sound like you're having a tantrum....
Based on the responses so far, its clear that most people are happy for a bike using period parts to be raced in the Evo class. So if you genuinely want to race the bike, then its up to you to put in a submission to the Historic Commission explaining what you want them to allow, and why they should allow it.
Yes its some work for you, and success is not assured, but if really is important for you to race this bike in the Evo class, then its a minor hassle - sure it'll take a few hours at the PC, but compared to the time you'll spend building the bike, I'm sure those few hours will be trivial....
Alternatively, you'd be more than welcome at ANY race meet in the country to simply turn up and race with the pre-85 bikes. And if you're not chasing throphies, then there's no bad point for you.
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Don't slit your throat just yet mate. A majority of people would welcome it with open arms and common sense would prevail . Who in there right mind would have an issue with it. It IS an evo bike, just with period trick bits on it. You have just found a rare issue that needs to be addressed in the rules, to except period upgrades which include water cooling. I feel the swingarm would be of more concern as i dont think it is a period knock off. Those factory looking arms (i am talking out my arse here as i only think that this is the case) as you have bought were from 81 on. Please correct me if i am wrong here.
To ask the same question again, would you take it to a national event? Would you figure in the top three placings if you did?
Bring it and bring it often i say. A beautiful thoroughbred needs to be out there .
I will be keen to see the end result.
If it is too hard and you want to move it on upon completion, i will sell a kidney to own it if i have to :D
Ok, Yes I would consider racing it at the nationals, but Conondale is a long way to travel from Sydney to find out I couldn't ride it, Top 3 ??, maybe, but probably not this year (Too much going on with work and just not fit enough yet)
The whole thing would do my head in so i'd probably just bring a back-up bike to make sure I got a ride,
PS.. it will be at CD6 and your more than welcolme to take it for a lap or two 090....... ;)
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well thats just stupid, this means I can run my YZ125D with Noguchi watercoolong kit in pre 78, but I can't run the Banzai Mugen in Evo ??? ??? ???, No wonder none of the trick bikes never make it to the track, too many scruitinazi's out there , and I certainly don't have the temprement to deal with them,... >:(
No you can't run a water cooled bike in pre-78 - there's a rule in there that specifically prohibits water-cooled bikes.
Look, I've been (and remain) quite critical of the wording of the rules, but their intent is well supported among the punters: To get bikes out there racing, and keep those bikes representative of the bikes that were racing 'in the day'. The 'no water cooling' bit is simply designed to stop people adapting later model production bits and otherwise creating ultra-fast 'specials' that never existed in the day. This is historic racing, remember.
AFAIK, you're the first person to seriously want to build and race a bike that's been converted to water-cooling in the history of Australian VMX - so don't go sprouting off about scrutinazis or the idiocy of the rules, because its simply a new issue that needs to be addressed, and you sound like you're having a tantrum....
Based on the responses so far, its clear that most people are happy for a bike using period parts to be raced in the Evo class. So if you genuinely want to race the bike, then its up to you to put in a submission to the Historic Commission explaining what you want them to allow, and why they should allow it.
Yes its some work for you, and success is not assured, but if really is important for you to race this bike in the Evo class, then its a minor hassle - sure it'll take a few hours at the PC, but compared to the time you'll spend building the bike, I'm sure those few hours will be trivial....
Alternatively, you'd be more than welcome at ANY race meet in the country to simply turn up and race with the pre-85 bikes. And if you're not chasing throphies, then there's no bad point for you.
No tantrums here buddy, where did you get that from>??????. Just asking the question before I drag a bike for 1200klm's that I can't ride,
Fortunately I have enough bikes in the stable that I can just peel anouther one out and ride that,... ;)
Unfortunately, no one will see the Banzai in action at the nationals...... :(
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Here:
well thats just stupid, ... No wonder none of the trick bikes never make it to the track, too many scruitinazi's out there , and I certainly don't have the temprement to deal with them,... >:(
I kinda figured you weren't typing with your fists, with tears streaming down your screwed up face, but the language was sounding pretty emotional. :)
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So far in my limited experience, if you turn up with a bike you think is right
to ride in a particular class they let you ride. (With the warning that if another competitor
protests and you lose the protest you will have to wear it).
So it would seem that in this day and age of VMX, you would be judged by the competitors
before the wording of the rules. ;D
Noel
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thats dissapointing that a correct period watercooled kit for that bike is not allowed even if there is proof that is is a period accessory part (which i know there is). but i guess rules are rules. perhaps the rules can be changed to include the aftermarket watercooled kits from Fox, Lop, shinobi, Mugen etc? what about home made conversions too? they could be allowed. people certainly were doing there own watercooled conversions ( barrels as well, not just heads) back in the 70's to early 80's and ive even got old magazines that tell you how to do it.
but i guess the bottom line is EVO - NO water cooling so you cant argue with that.
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When you reply to eligibility questions you should always remember that someone may spend a great deal of time and money based on the opinions that you give.
Evo is not a period class. It is a technology class. And watercooling is a technology that is not allowed in Evo.
Your Mugen stuff is valuable and so you probably do not want to waste it on a bike for the back of the Pre-85 pack.
It should go onto a garage queen rather than a race bike.
The money you get from selling it can be put towards a competitive Evo race bike.
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maybe there should be a class in the 77-80 region roughly, where you ARE allowed to use what was available at the time
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Your Mugen stuff is valuable and so you probably do not want to waste it on a bike for the back of the Pre-85 pack.
It should go onto a garage queen rather than a race bike.
The money you get from selling it can be put towards a competitive Evo race bike.
No problems to accept the rules and I already have plenty of competitive Evo bikes, It will be a real neat thing to ride at Classic dirt and at my private track,
It will still be competitive Pre 85 and even more fun if I can get it at the pointy end ;D,.................. one thing for certain,..........It aint never going to be for sale ;)
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"Evo is not a period class. It is a technology class.,"
nicely put
I haven't seen it worded that way before,
but they have removed the wording of" no age cut offs" and that generally stops pre 78 bikes and earlier riding in Evo
so it does make one think about the " period" from '78 on,
I wonder if this really was the intention at the time ??
On the other hand I also feel a well set up Evo 125 bike is competitive in Pre 85 125 field on the type of tracks that are prepared for Vintage events in Australia.
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Any chance we can see some pics of this bike E74?
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Any chance we can see some pics of this bike E74?
Soon Hoony ........ ;)
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No worries 74 look forward to it, i'm sure it will be a smick one as are all your bikes.
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Evo - AIR COOLED, drum brakes, no linkage.
If you cannot understand that then you should not debate eligibility.
Lucky for me my high school education wasn't a total waste of time as i understand the eligibility.
Doesn't take it away from the fact that it is an evo bike with a period kit on it. It is also true that it should have to be sorted through the proper channels so it can be run 'legally' as this is a one in a million case so to speak. Obviously things like this just weren't considered when the rules were written.
It should go onto a garage queen rather than a race bike.
The money you get from selling it can be put towards a competitive Evo race bike.
Why should he have to park it in his shed? Or sell it? I would rather see one trick bit of gear on the line than a gaggle of converted dt's or the like.
You've done it now E74, i will hunt you down for that ride! Just make sure there isn't too much fuel in the tank when you hand it over. ;D
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Still progressing with this baby but I doubt it will make it to CD6 , anyway these arrived today, what a master that Karl Landrus is, I think I'm gunna sleep with this tonight :D
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n208/hemiy09/mugenarm001.jpg)
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That arm looks bloody good.. roughly how many aussie dollars landed here?
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Around $1450, not including the brake stay @ about $160
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check out the welds :o looks good ;)
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Crikey! :o Not cheap but a nice piece of work. Definately worth it if you're building a watercooled 125 Mugen.
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im very impressed with his work.....but just dont mention carls name to firko... ;D
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Doing short moto's does watercooling really give that much of an advantage anyway, not like 40 min races.
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Yes
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Like?
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Less heat soak, more compression
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look if it was a mugen i owned and had issues with what to run it in bump the bugga up a class an go pre 85 they 80 model with water bucket head will be a ball tearer anyway and im sure your not going to have issues sitting at the podium when all is said and done