OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Doc on December 23, 2008, 05:54:08 pm
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well now that depends..a few posting of late has left one pondering...example..
a perfectly good resto'd TM400 gets passed in for $3850US and then there's this local XR75 that's not even original or a full resto attracting bids which would purchase something like that TM or a u-beaut RM400/370/250/125, CR500/250/125, KX500/250/125, YZ490/250/125 the list goes on but you get the idea. Keep in mind the reserve on the XR has not even been met! ::) It's not the actual bike or how good it was that dictates the price but moreso how much sentimentality is involved with potential buyers ;) I don't really believe this model is a great investment longterm as I believe the interest will decline once the generation who are now in their 40's and 50's grow older. Maybe I'm wrong, not getting personal but anyone got a crystal ball? :D
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Honda-1973-XR75-K0-Matching-numbers-mint-XR-75_W0QQitemZ130276405945QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycles?hash=item130276405945&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Honda-1973-XR75-K0-Matching-numbers-mint-XR-75_W0QQitemZ130276405945QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycles?hash=item130276405945&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)
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It's the old story Doc ...if you have a coulpe of bidders who want the bike badly, it becomes a bidding war. As far as how much is it worth FN - varies day to day - and a shit load has something to do with the MOON PHASING ;D
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Gees they can have my 1973 SL70 that really is original, complete, running and fun to ride around, for lets say a cheap offer over $3000 USD! ..... ;). :DTell um to post a message here...... Cheers Tim :D :D :D :D :D
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EBAY
IS IT JUST ME
OR HAS ANYONE ELSE SEEN BIKES
GO FOR A SILLY PRICE
ONLY TO TURN UP 3 MONTHS LATER
FOR SALE AGAIN ???
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Yeah i've seen that a few times from the same seller in Vic.
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Yes it is not just you. Sometimes the seller states a reason but Hmmmm others are very suss.
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Many E bayers have more than one account which they use to bid on their item, as well as having friends etc bidding up the price. I know i guy who always puffs the price this way. I've seen some strange bids on cars and bikes. Tell 'em their dreamin'!
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Doc in regards to the XR75 K0 not being a good investment , go out and buy the latest motorcycle retro mag in which I think is of equal quality to VMX mag and theres roughly about 10 pages on the grandfather of XR's ,over the last few years theres been big write ups in VMX, Motorcross journal and I even remember seeing a great article in a Aussie Minibike mag only a couple of years ago on the XR75. Theres allot of big bore VMX bikes that havent had as much coverage in these types of mags as the XR75, every one of them states the XR's were the bike that started it all for a whole generation of dirt bike riders and was Honda's first real dirtbike, I think it is a worthy bike be it a minibike to be put into the collectors catagory along side those bikes you mentioned. XR75's do have heritage on there side as not only as a play bike but also as a serious race bike back then. People think "small bike small money" ," big bike big money" which shouldn't be the case.
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oh I see where you're coming from miniwheels. The XR did put a lot of kids bums on seats over a couple of generations. I don't have a problemm with the bikes commanding big money but the bikes should at least be rare. The XR75 Honda is not a rare bike although in the the condition of the nice KO pictured they are harder to find. They basically remained unchanged in the early years and they wearn't the be all and end all of minibikes but they were the first mini that was a true scaled down version of larger machines. I can appreciate the value of any bike, mini's in particular, I own 7 or 8 minis myself I would not part with any of them. 1 of these is an XR75 but what I don't understand is why the big bucks for such a common bike..sentimentality has to be why not so much the collectabilty. My question is will the sentimentality fall off after our generation passes which get's me back to my comment of I don't feel they are a good long term investement. Short term they appear gold but long term I am not so sure. I love mini's but I would not pay over $2k regardless of year, model or make. Horses for courses. There's a beaut Beamish RL250 on ebay for less than the XR75 and although neither of these bikes really interest me a great deal I'd be going the cheaper RL as being the more collectable although the markets presently states otherwise.
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Doc i think the XR75KO is collectible because it was the first one and this bike has already been restored at some time. It costs a fortune to restore an XR these days because of the rarity and prices of NOS parts. The '73 and '74 XR75's were the bike to have in those days and they dominated mini racing. I wanted one so bad at high school cos all my mates had them but i ended up with a brand new TM75 instead which started my love affair with Suzukis in the 70's.
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No worries Doc, everybody's has there opinion and its great you see the other side of the debate. For me theres nothing better than people coming up to you and sharing a story about there racing days on a XR or saving up there hard earned from there paper round as a teenager for a year and so on to get there dreamed XR back in the good ol days, to me for example a RL250 doesn't have that same effect as an XR that people can relate too so hence I think the price of the RL ?????.Over the years I have met plenty of father's my age (48) that have had father/son project XR's they have rebuilt as there sons first bike that I reckon will carry the torch in the future for the XR so to speak. K0 XR's in original condition aren't that common anymore especially in Australia as much as you may think, it took me 5 years of searching to find a good one about 7 years ago.
If you think a K0 XR is over the top in price just wait until an original Jeff Ward C&J framed XR75 comes up on Evil bay in the USA ,I think the winner will have to mortgage his house!!!!!.
Merry Xmas.
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THE XR 75 WAS ONLY DOMINANT
UNTIL YZ80C
STILL OK 3 YEARS AT THE TOP
MY FIRST REAL BIKE WAS GT80B
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In Juniors, I had TM75. then my neighbor got XR75, then I got YZ80C. Then we both moved to YZ125 C,X,D,E's
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yeah I gots to admit I am a little biased, my first real bike I purchased was a new RM80B. Many of my friends had XR's and I had a K2 breifly in the early days but I just couldn't get overly caught up in them. I'd already owned a TS100 for 12 months and I couldn't justify spending my hard earned cash on a mini that was slower than the bike I already had hence I bought the RM80. I had experience with the GT80 yams but found the wheelbase too short which made the bike too twitchy at speed. Same goes for the MC1-A 90 kawasaki's. The TM75 and SL70's, which I'd also ridden quite a bit I'd never really considered because of their 'non real bike' design and woeful suspension and power output. The quickest mini's I'd ridden pre RM days was a Deckson Eagle and an Indian 80 with the indian having a hands down win in the handling department. YZ80B/C were around but these too didn't have quite the zap or peakiness the RM80 had. Jeff Wards XR might go for heaps and but it carries somewhat more history than a regular resto hence it will sell accordingly. In theory it's a 1 off and a very well known 1 off at that. More akin to buying a genuine factory racer rather than something 1 once owned. I honestly do love minis. Right at this moment I'm in the middle of an RM50N rebuild. I said I have 8 or so mini's but I don't have any kids whatsoever to ride them so that kinda states my affliction towards the minibikes is not based on a father son project of interest but a genuine liking of all things little ;D My XR won't be a stocker by a long shot but will be very typical of the mid 80's era since it's fitted in a YZ80K chassis ;) $2K for a mini is about the max I'd go but then $2k for anything is my limit so it's not like I'm picking on the little beasts, just the ones I consider a little overpriced :P only local exception to this rule is the scaled down mini's KB pumps out of his workshop such as the (XR) HL80 replica recently shown on the forum. A far cry from a stocker from any year but in my eyes far more appealing and desirable also 8)
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This is interesting, especially Doc's comment on the generation thing. I also think that high prices will drive a lot of people to cheaper alternatives. I was keen on getting an egg yolk yellow SL70 because I was on a nostalgia trip as it was my first bike. Now that there $3,000+ do I still want one just to scratch a nostalgic itch. Uuumm .. no. I saw a mint unrestored one in the states and have the photo, that's enough.
I was talking to a guy at a swapmeet recently about Kawasaki Z1900's. He wanted one but the prices where too high, so he bought one of the new Eddy Lawson replicas for less money. He said it go's better than an old Z1 and when he gets nostalgic he just goes and looks at a Z1 which is what he was doing when I spoke to him.
I've recently had a big debate with a mate of mine about this topic. He collects and restores old Harley's. He's fastidious on using original parts. No repo stuff for him. Even if he builds a '48 custom he will only use genuine period correct custom parts that where available in '48. I told him that I wonder how the value will hold in the longterm future when the guy's who are into them now are too old to care and the next generation wont care or wont and can't pay the big dollars. Most of his bikes are worth around $30,000 to $50,000 each. He got a bit upset and told me it would never happen, and that if he sold his bikes he would ship them to Vegas and put them in the auction to catch the big fish. But what happens when everyone sells their old bikes and flood the market with them?
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it's all crystal ball and hypotheticals crashnbern.. I don't mean to sound negative but I guess I throw most others in with myself and my way of thinking which may not be the case. Point I make is as an investment I really am not overly interested or would even consider purchasing something that was made before 'my time'. If so it would have to be cheap and I'd probably try to pass it on for a profit to someone who did care if hypothetcally I could find someone willing to pay the bigger $. I have no issue at all with someone having the cash to pay big for a little bit of their history but if you were born from 1985 onwards then by the time you were into minibikes which is about 13/14 or 15y/o at an average, 30 years later you'll be very fond of say '98 to 2000 models and they will be the 'old' bikes by future standards. It won't matter a zac as we'll probably be belly up anyway by then but it all sort of comes back to the wonderful childhood or adolesent memories and what we feel they are worth. When you do finally get the bike of your dreams it probably won't quite live up to the expectations or memories. Nice to have but... Tough call, some people simply collect, some ride and some do both but 9 times out of 10 this majority is only interested with bikes built after they were born. The vintage movement for XR75 honda's and all 70's and 80's models is fueled by people like us and it's in it's prime..we won't live forever and I feel the 'majority of this excitable' market for these '70's models will follow suit.
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Don't know what your old bikes worth............but a new 09 back brake lever for a KX is $180. :-[
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I agree with you Doc. As I said to my Harley collecting friend. In twenty years time when he wants out of his old bikes, the guy's who are his age will want out too. Who's going to buy them. The new generation of cashed up 40 year olds might be into old evo harley's from the 90's. Harley's might even be passe by then. I've owned Harley's since I was 18. When I was in my 20's there where a lot of guy's my age riding them. I don't see scores of 20 odd year old's riding them now.
I think this applies across the board to most makes of bikes.
Sure their will always be the guy who wants something from before his time and will pay the dollars. But there will be less of them.
I spend a lot of time trying to speculate the motorcycle market, as I have no interest in stocks or real estate.
Honda Z50's from the 70's pull good money. $2,000 for a tidy one. A Z50 from the 80's pull $600. In ten or so years the kids from the eighties will be on a mid life nostalgia trip and the price may go up. The other thing to factor is motorcycles boomed in the 70's. Hence why were all here. But in the 80's the market declined. So will there be as many of the next generation into them. I spent some time at a swap meet recently with some younger guy's who grew up in the 80's. They are into their cars and bikes, but they were chasing and collecting 80's BMX bikes and riding gear because that's what was big in their day. They had no interest in dirt bikes and were bemused at me buying old dirt bike junk.
But thing always change. I drive a Cadillac, most of the people in the Cadillac club are 50'+. But a lot of rappers feature old Cadillacs in their video clips and now and lot of guy's in their 20's are getting into Caddy's. I sold my last one to a twenty year old who bought it for his first car. But an old caddy is still cheaper than a used SS Holden. So for a young guy it's a cheap alternative, when his mates pay $30,000 for a used Holden and he pays $12,000 for a Cadillac with way more street cred. You also see a lot of young guy's cruising in old Holdens and Fords from before their time. But only because they are still cheap.
If the price surpasses the price of a late model used car they will probably drop out.
So you can speculate all you want, but like Doc says it's all crystal ball stuff, but with unexpected twists and turns.
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nostalgia plays a big part alright, if you ever spot a pair of those old wrist breaking balls on a string we called Klik-Klaks then you watch the price they sell for..bloody unbelievable!! :o I wouldn't give them to any kid to play with these days unless I wished them some serious wrist injuries :D
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A Z50 from the 80's pull $600.
11 variety's to choose from :P
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Honda-Z50-J-Z50R-Fuel-Gas-Tank-NEW-Rare-Vintage-OEM-Bko_W0QQitemZ120531719529QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1c10401569