OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: evo550 on September 10, 2007, 09:18:54 pm
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There was a thread on the old forum on the prices people are paying for Vintage mxer's, I will admit I was a bit of a fence sitter at the time when people started to voice there opinion on what they considered silly prices people where asking for bikes, at the time most of the desirables where hovering around the $4000 to $5000 mark I thought, OK, thats expensive but they will peak at that price. How wrong I was, not 12 months later a Mega 2 goes for almost $11500 on "E", and someone else wants and will probably get $7500 for some evo huskies.
Are these bikes really worth that? I know I will hear the "Thats market value" arguement (although I think your insurance company or the bank might dissagree).
I honestly believe that the constant price rise of bikes will be detremental to the sport, I personaly know of two people who have turned away from the sport because of bike prices, they now race the vet class at modern events on 3 year old 250 two strokes that they bought for less than they could pick up a open class pre "85 bike.
Seen a vet class lately, they are chockers..........not quite the same as a vintage meet.
I'm sure the guys who kicked it all off back in the early '90's did it to encourage a relaxed, CHEAP form of dirt bikes, (enter Firko)
Thoughts anyone?
*Amendment to the above Mega 2 price it's $11300.........but reserve not met!!!!!
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IF YOUVE GOT ONE GOING CHEAP LET ME KNOW CAUSE I CANT AFFORD 11,500 FOR A MEGA 2
SO BUT I WOULD LIKE TO OWN ONE AND THEY ARE JUST TOO EXPENSIVE FOR ME
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like anything whats for sale is only worth what people are willing to pay
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Surely what we do isn't just about racing/riding a bike. If that's all I wanted to do then you're right. I'd just get a good second hand two stroke, race it and abuse it. Our bikes are very personal and I believe say an awful lot about ourselves. Just look at the thread on the best looking MX bike and see how much passion there is there. I can understand someone paying 13G+ for a 490 Maico. If that was what I wanted to show to the world what I thought was the "it" of dirt biking I'd be diggin' the cash out now. Most people have an idea of what floats my boat and I've spent ridiculous amounts of cash on it but as I say on my web site, "it's the bike they can bury me with!"
It's about the passion and you can't put a price on it....... :)
And how could you spend hours staring at your CRF 250? Eeurgghhh! :-[
As for getting it dirty? Well I have a swell preasure washer...
And breaking it? Well I have swell suspension.......
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as I have stated once before it is our generation (over 40's) that's driving interest and these insane prices..I feel if you wait till our generation passes then the prices should come back to more realistic figures ;) seriously..
so much as I like the old bikes the prices of used much much newer models is also attractive for anyone who simply rides for the enjoyment of riding..an RMZ450 would run rings around my old RM in every department except for resale value..go figure..
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I seen that maico when it was hovering on 7grand evo550 and i shook my head.
Its a nice bike but as Ive said with the moderns . thats a lot of money to go play n the dirt with.
Sure some people have the cash and wont mind paying OVER the generally accepted value but there is always people who will open the wallet.
Am sure there are many valid reasons and complex mathematical formula that can make paying what seems to me an extraodinary amount but i guess its not my money so none of my business.
I will keep playing with my budget bikes and think my own thoughts about what bikes the rich kids are playing with and know Im having just as much fun if not more with my heaps of shit... atleast I wont be scared to get them dirty or take that iffy decision and risk breaking them... ... and still have enough for a carton of bench racing lubricant left in the wallet.
Vive la difference'
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im preety certain there will be another one shortly 81 gs 490 or a 77/79 400 see what happens
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Yeah Paul i agree with you....
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AT414, you're 100% right, but how many people stop and think "Hmmm... $12k for an old bike, or $5k for a two year old one? Hmmm... I'll grab the '05 model thanks Eddie"...
Yes, I know that there's heaps of valid reasons why you'd spend the extra on the Maico, but no matter how strong their interest is, lots of people will find more valid reasons to spend less money on the newer bike.
How do you get lower prices? I've got no idea how - the current prices are driven by a market experiencing economic boom times which is going to remain a relentless, unstoppable force while-ever the boom times exist. I'm waiting (not hoping) for the inevitable bust, that will see values plummet (along with people's ability to afford them) but apparently that makes me a pessimist. :)
I read Doc's post and initially thought "I'll be surprised if that prediction comes true" - look at all of the older (road) bikes and cars - their values are still held high (and increasing) even though the people with the obvious connection to them aren't around to appreciate them.
But then again, if you look beyond the prices of the glory machines (GTHO/XU1/MC490/good pre-75 MXers etc), and there are a lot of significantly older/rarer cars and bikes that can be bought for relatively little money - I'm not talking pocket money, but still relatively cheap compared to it's newer (but still old), more common counterpart.
I'm not suggesting that your beautiful original CR-RZ or RM-S is ever going to be worth $500 in the future - but in the longer term, your nice-but-not-wonderful YZ-E or CR-RD won't be particularly valuable simply by association.
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That 490 actually reached $12,350 and the reserve wasn't met!! I'd seriously consider selleng mine for that even though i vowed to never sell it.
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I'm pretty sure Good vintage bike prices are like land prices-
They NEVER come down! ;)
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wait a couple of weeks and say that again maico 31 . funny thing about all these high prices is when the old forum was running i asked firko about buying a 490 he said to look at a few place over seas i check out there web sites and with in the space off a 8 mth to a year the prices doubled ive been saveing money for awhile now to do just that and every time i get near it the prices jump the way its going im going to have give it a miss even basket cases are expensive >:( any leads any body
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couple of you guys are right, you dont need one, if you just wanted to race ill sell you no end of pre 75 Dt 250/dt1 for $500, but when you start wanting somthing special you have to pay, thats not killing the sport, you want it you pay, if not get a Dt shitter and go racing. Same as the XU1, GT's but unfortunatley you add the workwide appeal of these bike models and the price benchmark has to follow the gloabal market price, not just the local trends
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$500 for a Dt shitter????......... Your bloody dreamin freaky ;D
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just paid $400 for a yz 125 g model for my daughter to race next year, you will allways have people prepaired to pay whatever for a bike, but i dont consider these few have any real impact on what we have as a sport, just because they have the rarest, paid a arm for bike,dosnt make them the fence post to aspire too. all the classic riders i know prefer the challenge of the resto, and dont believe everything you read i think evil net distorts the truth with so much dummy bidding, just ask your mates to bid ,thats easy
Cheers
Trev
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Quoting Chopper Reid "Whinge Whinge Whinge f*^#ng Whinge".
Doesn't matter if you think quality is shite but nothing should be expensive these days.Just pull it apart measure it,take or send the dimensions to China and then you will have 1000's of them.
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Spare a thought for guitar players, I wondered when this little hobby of mine would strangely reactivate - just like vintage mx did!. I was having a look at vintage guitar prices, Yep, same thing as the bikes. I once had a '74 Stratocaster & paid about $700 for it in the mid '80's, well I saw just the neck off one at ebay with starting bid $700.
As for my old SG Yamaha - Vintage guitar magazine quote "the days of picking these up for several hundred bucks are long gone."
Now there are countless cheap guitars thanks to our Chinese friends, good build quality but the vital "vintage" ingredient is missing. Lets face it they aint got SOUL.
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Still cant understand why people get their Tits in a tangle about prices ::) You want it you pay it ;)quite simple really. It isn't always stinking rich foreigners who will pay what ever for somthing , its a matter of priorities .
To me i love my Girlfriend & my kids X 4 but i have a philosophy that LIFE AINT A PRACTICE you dont get a second go :o So if you want it now and somones got it then go and get it ;)
Last time i checked they were still printing money and the bank still wants to lend it :)
Sure the bank owns more of the house than i do but i cant take that bastard or the bikes with me when i go so i might as well enjoy it while im here.
GO ON spoil yourselves spend your kids inheritence ;D get yourself that Maico :o
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It's only the bikes with some signifigance, history, rarity or legend status which command the high prices, not your garden variety vmx'er. No point bleeding about the prices, it's the way it is. I would suggest anyone who is getting frustrated with pricing, take the bikes off their watch list and reduce their amount of stress. I have sold bikes for lot's of money and bought bikes for lots of money, not that I have plenty, just wanted them bad enough to pay the price. I have a nice collection of "garage queens" which cost me a lot of both time & money, and then the not so pretty race bikes which are relatively cheap to buy and run. Just have a look at the prices of art, sometimes millions of dollars, usually for something that looks like my 4 year old daughter painted! I bet no one is getting uptight about that kind of thing. The prices will only get higher in my opinion. Lets face it if you want a modern motocross bike you have literally thousands to choose from, but if you want a 1974 Ossa Phantom, well that's another story altogether. It is most certainly a crazy world. That' s my 5 minutes on the soap box.
Cheers,
K
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The 490 maico recently on Ebay is worth 13K + any day of the week.
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i just spoke to him on the phone to see how much 15k , no ifs no but, looks like im still a bit short for money the hunt goes on ive got 10 wont be long now
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You could get out of it much cheaper that that if your not too worried about having correct matching numbers. One option would be to buy a 250 and convert it to a 490.
For example, a tidy 1981 Maico 250 in Brisvegas sold the other day for $3550. And the only difference between a 490 and a 250 is the top end of the motor (ok pipe, carby, crank too). All the bits to convert it to a 490 appear fairly regularly on evilbay and occasionally a complete 490 motor comes up.
It will still cost a few grand on top of the price of the 250 but it will be a whole lot less than $10K.
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= a clutch and primary gear 21 /39 , ignition = i think some off the gear may be different
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And the cases are different also, the studs are about 8mm further apart. The best you could do would be to make a 250 into a 440...
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Doh, I knew there would have to be more...
Anyway, you could certainly accumulate the bits to build one.
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I will go along with ya about the $11,300 Maico, thats a bit over the top. As for the other prices you quoted, $4,000 to $6,000 for a "good" VMX bike either pre85 or what ever, I don't see that as being to over the top. I've not long completed a resto on my 79 RM400N, full ground up resto which didn't leave me any change out of $5,000 not to mention the bloody sweat tears and hours that I put in. Maybe you would be best restoring a basket case your self, you may have some ideas on how to restore a VMX bike to race ready condition that will better suit your budget. I recently seen some where that a Phase3 XY GT Falcon went up for sale with a price tag of......wait for it....the cool million bucks!!! When these things hit the show room floor at your local Ford dealer back in 70/71 you could buy one for around $5,000. I'm sure there were more Phase 3 Falcons out there than Maico 490 Mega2's were brought into the country.
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Maico roller on ozzy evilbay now at a decent price guys,, get it before its gone ;D
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As a Maico nut I want to weigh in on this one.
That 490 was shit hot but I must say as per Michael Katon in THE CASTLE - tell him he's dreaming !!! Just a few TOO many $$$'s
If anyone paid $15K in OZ i'd be very surprised but if he gets it good luck to him. As other posters have pointed out the cost to resto any old MX can be (but doesn't have to be) quite staggering. If you are happy to have an old dunger then good luck to you - it probably won't cost much at all and will often, but not necessarily have looks comensurate with what you spend on it.
That 490 on the other hand was a ground up show queen resto. Go and get a quote to have a wheel professionally rebuilt including the new rim, spokes, blasting and powder coating of the hub, new tyre tube bearings etc PLUS add the labour and then shit yourself - that wheel will cost $600 to $700 easily. Like another poster said too - what is that guys labour worth. I know only too well how long it takes to rebuild top shelf bikes and the guy deserves to get that back don't you think?
As far as comparing it with the 250 that sold for $3550 it's like comparing strawberries and dog turds. The 250 was plainly based on the enduro (GS) model by the engine and frame numbers alone. It was plainly a well used old bike whereas the other was virtually new, but............... and hear is the good bit..............
Before we get all snooty the enduro bike (GS) is a great way for most of us to get a really good Maico for a fraction of the price and there are heaps of GS's in OZ. Contrary to what one guy said the 490 barrel will bolt straight onto the 250 cases and vice versa. The main differences are internal gearing (both primary drive and gearbox and these vary between 250's and 490's too), GS's ran the Bosch ignition (external flywheel) which are good gear, crank, pipe and carby assemblies are different of course between 250 and 490 but the same between MC and GS for the given capacity. Enduro frames have predominately the preferably 'roundback' top tubes as opposed to the MC's which had the strange "Megaform" type although later MXers had the 'roundback' frames. Additionally, and very easily corrected if you want to have the appearance of a genuine MC, is the enduro ranges additional bracketry and tube work - all of which can be easily and quickly removed with final work being done with a file and emery cloth to produce an almost exact copy of the big buck frame.
I am more than happy to build a bitsa 490 based on a GS250 frame for my son to race, if his busted/plated, rebusted/replated collarbone ever heals that is !!!
By early new year I will have cranked out at least three very genuine andtotally restored MC490T's if anyone is interested so stay tuned and in the meantime just enjoy what you can afford and have FUN.
See at the back of the pack !!!
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so early next year more torture (CRANCKED OUT MEANS FOR SALE OR SHOW)
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and as some of the guys said if you were to do one of these restos and check out what it cost some of the prices are good value for money. I have my 78CR currently at $5750 - nearly a garage queen, new wheels, spokes etc (as above) blah blah blah and because it was my first resto I didn't know where I could save and the bike actually cost me around $1K more than that to do. Because it was so "pretty" I went and got another to make a rider and the resto was entirely different? Should I be selling the 78 for less - will I sell the 78 for less - I dont think so. It can sit and wait until the prices go up further and I can get what I want as I thought it was a good deal - just need somebody else to think the same!!!
cheers
Rossco
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Maicomc490t do you actually own a 490 Maico? If you do go and measure the distance between the cylinder studs in the cases on a 490 then measure a 250 and you will see that the 490 is 92mm apart and the 250 is 86mm apart which means that the 490 cylinder DOES NOT fit straight on to a 250. Anyway i'm happy about the high prices cos that means all my bikes are going up in value for a change.
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G'day Paul - Nope, not for show!!!
All three will be definitely for sale and as good as the one on ebay guaranteed!!! After that there are plenty more to follow so if you miss out there will be enough to go round and paint the tracks red with Megas !!!
As for the Honda with Ross and Vicki couldn't agree with you guys more - Over the years I have restored some beutiful Ducati's and have NEVER factored into the deal the little extras, the labour and the hassles chasing stupid little parts.
At the same time I don't blame others for despairing and being horrified at the cost (in their eyes) and going off to race in the Vets at the local club on moderns. There are plenty of cheap rides out there but you have to find em - hence my post about modifying a 250 or 490 Maico into a near enough full blown MX version. All I ask is if you sell one TELL the person buying it what it started out as cos it really shits me when good people get ripped off in any fashion (I know cos an A--hole did that to me with a 490 in the US with $4KAU gone to one North Carolina scumbag but thats a story for another time - eh T. Paul Schmieding of 28 Lee Circuit Concord NC ya bastard!!!)
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Hi Maico31 - as to the 490 barrel not fitting the 250 cases???
I do have more than one '81 490 and 250 as well - ask Firko.
I have just been into the workshop to make sure I wasn't dreaming and yep I'm right and took two pics to prove it but the damned site wouldn't cop the file download send me you email address and I will happily post them to you). First I put a standard 490 barrel onto 250 engine #MT350**** and as I knew it would it fitted perfectly. To make sure it wasn't a fluke I also put a 490 reed barrel on GT250**** engine ('81 GS250 bottom end - the subject matter of my post re conversion from GS to MC and of course it fitted as I said it would, because for 1981 the factory changed the hole pitching. The 81 250 engines like their predecessors just ran a narrower crank and crankcase stuffers within the 400 / 490 crankcases - the only real difference is the engine numbers stamped on them. Previous Magnum engines used common stud pitching for 250, 400 and 450 and used crank stuffers and a narrower crank on the 250's as per the '81 and 82 range but the pre '81 stud pitching is narrower longitudinally and transversly which is where you are coming from)
If anyone wants comprehensive measurements I am happy to provide same but just fitting the parts as above is proof enough.
1981 490 cylinders do fit 250 bottom ends and vice versa - completely interchangable.
Cheers, Dave
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well thats just great now there comeing outta the wood work ANY WAY HERE MY EMAIL show me the bike /numbers correct and i will email you a pic of the cash [email protected] TALK TURKEY
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WELL FIRKO YOUR UP
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Hey Dave those measurements i quoted i got from measuring my 490 and 250 engines. When i built my 490 i bought a complete engine from the US because i had already been told that a 490 cylinder doesn't fit the 250 cases but the 400 and 440 cylinders will fit the 250 cases. Might go measure my '80 model 440 cases and see what i come up with there. Cheers
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Gulp! I was trying to avoid this one. For the record, Dave (Maico490t) does indeed have three '81 490 Maicos and at least one 81 250 (I sold it to him) and a shitload of 490 cases, frames, barrels and stuff. He's a nice bloke and I'm sure he and his son will end up racing them once his son has eased off the modern racing a tad.
I didn't want to get involved as I know both Maico 31 and Dave and thought that Maico 31 was correct. I was certain in my own mind that there is no way a 250 cylinder will go on to 490 cases. I would have bet my sweet bippie on it.
However, now Dave says that he's tried it in his workshop and that they fit it's thrown a wobbly into the mix. If Daves right (and I can't see why he'd bullshit about this), I've been telling everybody that they don'tfit for years. I know for sure that in the pre 75 engines that the stud spacing between the 250 and 400/440 is diferent and therefore not interchangable so I naturally assumed that the same would be true for the even bigger 490 barrel.
Dave, send me those photos and I'll post them for you.
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Hi All,
In the interest of maintaining the integrity of the original thread I am going to shift the 250 / 490 interchangability issue to the main MAICO forum so it is relevant to those who like the German breed.
I'll also get the pics off to Firko for him to post there.
Cheers, Dave
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just out of interest sake what would the approx price of these bike be ;D and im definatley interested so any info would be appreasiated sorry my spellllings atrouious ;)
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Rightio,
I gots to know. Because I'm guessing at 12k plus I'll never ride one, what makes a Maico 490 so good that people go apeshit bananas over them and pay crazy money? Seriously, no cynicism or anything. Why?
The only analogy I can think of is that as long as I can remember I've wanted a bevel 900ss duke. Why? Dunno. Something about it being a race bike with lights maybe. Something about it being the first big roadbike I rode. (Thanks Davie) But they are slow, heavy, uncomfortable, unreliable and presently stupidly overpriced. 15k plus. Forget it. My LeMans 3 is twice the bike but you can't give 'em away. Is it just that we've become such consumer sheep? I see it everyday, as I work out of the CBD. People who find there worth in wearing 300 buck shoes and 200 buck shirts, made in China by some poor exploited bloke. Me, I seriously would like to find that chinese bloke and apologise to him. Because I worry that the majority of the great unwashed couldn't give a silent fart about him.
I don't understand. Maybe I should stop cleaning bits with solvent... :)
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FBC, that's a damn good post. As consumers we're sheep, in so many different ways. If the 2nd best option is 95% as good as the best, we'll only pay 60% as much as we'd pay for the best...
As to the Maico 490, I've never ridden one (though I am forever in Shoey's debt for a blat on his 440), but as I understand it: It's a bike that handles very well for its age and has The Motor Of All Time. You can pick holes in other aspects of it (brakes!), but the motor excuses them. Maybe some of the really new 450s have a better engine, but it was at least equal to an early '00s KTM big bore 4-stroke (there's an article on the Klub Kevlar site). But the ol' Maico does it reliably with three moving parts compared to the newer KTM's 500 moving bits...
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Not one BuT twO GREAT qUOTES :o)
I don't understand. Maybe I should stop cleaning bits with solvent... :)
;) ;D
FBC, that's a damn good post. As consumers we're sheep, in so many different ways. If the 2nd best option is 95% as good as the best, we'll only pay 60% as much as we'd pay for the best...
aLTHOUGH IM STILL WORKING THROUGH YOURS naT ::) ??? ;D
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My rave about them started about 2 years ago. A family friend intro'd me into vmx with a basket case.He told me it was the shit. I wondered why i bought this old piece o' shit. It handles unreal, it trucks out of a corner like a 4stroke and it hole shots all by itself...i just hang off the back like a rag doll . This is what i look like after every ride ;D ;D ;D.
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i suppose you only live once so i bought that 490 maico today never had one so now i have ;D
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Well done Paul, live the dream !
now get that thing down to a Viper Meeting !
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Paul Just watch Hoony ,If he is hanging around like ya new best mate it,s cause he wants to ride IT.
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guess what ? there another in brisbane fark i must have the bug
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Hey Paul - well done and who cares about the money - you now own a 490 !!!
In my job I have seen more than my fair share of dead people, many of them young and many of them probably shared one thing. That would be that they harboured a desire to do something, or own something at least once in their lives - something they may never have achieved !!!
Bottom line here - if you wait around long enough and do nothing to get what you want in life (eg own a particular bike) the Grim Reaper will get you while you are still wondering what it would have been like to own or do whatever.
We are all dead a long bloody time - I say go for it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
***********************See you at the back of the pack !!!*****************************
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Paul Just watch Hoony ,If he is hanging around like ya new best mate it,s cause he wants to ride IT.
Shhh !!!!! bloody quiet you, and get back in your yamaha temple !
and bloody well said maicomc490t
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i reckon all bikes are going up. ive noticed a obvious rise in prices for the British bikes the past couple yrs. The 650/750 triumphs have gone up quite a lot recently and Vintcents, well they are just stupid 70 grand!!!!! i think investors are getting into it. also the 70's jap bikes are going up eg T500 suzukis and XS 650 yamahas are really going up and getting sought after. The complete resto of a T500 im doing will be worth a bit but the owner isnt getting it done to sell and make money. i cant see any prices of bikes/parts comming down any time soon
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For sale by reserved tender... Original 1949/50 650T Triumph Thunderbird with matching Dusting Sidecar Imported by Pratts motorcycles Melbourne (still has genuine Pratts badges) for Vic Police. Reported to be earliest known S/car combo of its type example in Australia . Runs Complete except for police Siren ( Some turd nicked it :-\) Has Alternator and Generator Lucas electrics, runs but needs full restoration. Ok start at...... $16000.00....... Tendered for 30 days. Tim 754 No Shit
Would consider straight swap for complete Wasp or EML or Hagon VMX outfit ,can't help myself can I. ::)
NOW SOLD................................
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I must have this book!! Look at the price! This must be the rarest book in the know universe!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motocross-Journal-Priemier-Issue-Rare-MX-Husky-CZ-Maico_W0QQitemZ120185441313QQihZ002QQcategoryZ34240QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motocross-Journal-Priemier-Issue-Rare-MX-Husky-CZ-Maico_W0QQitemZ120185441313QQihZ002QQcategoryZ34240QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
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http://http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300178091872&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BID_Stores_IT&refitem=300176784915&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget
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I normally stay away from ebay whinging, BUT can you explain these;
$455 for this....
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/0b95_1.jpg)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBX:IT&item=300176261600&_trksid=p3984.cALLBUY.m311.lVI
You get a shiney new piston but there not a redeeming feature to it.
And $610 for this.....
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/9c24_1.jpg)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBX:IT&item=300176264630&_trksid=p3984.cALLBUY.m311.lVI
I just don't get it. If you were buying these as 'paddock bashers', as a parts bike, a 'do up and run around' or as a full on resto I can't see the value.
And there is definitely no bling factor or starry eyed nostalgia.
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Sigh......Because someone, somewhere who has a penchant for DT 400's or DT whatever the blue one is, has probably got a tent for a pair of pants because they can now finish off that bike that they had all those years ago........ ::)
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http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Honda-XR75-K3-VMX_W0QQitemZ220179563514QQihZ012QQcategoryZ102690QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Nice - but $3000 - and yes I know it is worth what someone will pay but 2 years ago this would get you a nice running pre 75 something or other!!!
Rossco
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Sigh......Because someone, somewhere who has a penchant for DT 400's or DT whatever the blue one is, has probably got a tent for a pair of pants because they can now finish off that bike that they had all those years ago........ ::)
Madness. Surely this is a product of desperation/ignorance, rather than pant tents?
The other things is that bikes have a bit of a value spike from now to mid~late January - I quess this is due to the 'once a year warriors' looking for a sub-$1000 shitter to take down the bush with their mates.
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For a change, here's a rare eBay bargain.
I know this bike isn't for everyone but it is a very rare piece of kit. It's a genuine late fifties 250 BSA C15MX. This is the bike that the Jeff Smith 1964 World Championship 441 Victor was based on and is the precesessor of the B44 and eventually the B50. It's BSA's first production unit construction scrambler. I didn't try hard enough and was outbid in the last breath. Although the bike wouldn't have been a very competitive racer, it is a unique piece of motocross history and would have made a very cool Classic Dirt pose bike and collectors item. It was a steal believe it or not at $1025.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320186529896 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320186529896)
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Considering what price I have seen others go for these seem reasonable
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190178202680&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320180326334&rd=1
But this one will go ballistic..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBI%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220178483391&rd=1
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really, i got one of those BSA fibre glass tanks!. no one wanted it at a swap meet. maybe i should put it on ebay then! we sold one of those C15's at a swap meet for around $700-$800. went with a heap of spare engines and other stuff. it went to WA. was ideal to build a C15 mx bike but was hard to sell as most people thought it was just a crap 250 BSA and couldnt see the potential.
by the way i reckon that bike is mid 60's
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Even though I've got three projects on the go at once, I'm kicking myself for missing this one by one bloody bid. A mate has three or four C15 engines I could have picked through and a Wassell aftermarket seat for the model. Most of the hard to get stuff like the tank and the trick magneto and drive are there. The C15MX came out in the late fifties and the tank is, or should be alloy. I assumed the one on the bike for sale was the original tank painted.
Mike Green in California races a pretty quick C15MX http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/C15MXMarch03.jpg (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/C15MXMarch03.jpg)
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so you thought it was a genuine C15 S or scrambles bike. I thought it pretty much could have been any C15 just with that tank and no lights. Who knows what previous owners done to it and the item description doesn’t say much and sellers can claim the bike they are selling can be anything! If I was interested in it I would of definitely asked for the engine and frame number to see what exact model it was because it may not of been the genuine MX model. The trials models looks pretty much same as the MX model and has the same alloy tank but has lights as well. That could of also been the standard road model with that tank stuck on it. In the photos I didn’t really pay much attention to the tank to see it was alloy, but ive got one that’s a very similar shape in fibre glass which is a period aftermarket tank for C15 trials/mx bikes. I now know what you mean about the alloy ones being worth heaps. The genuine one on the B44 GP I’m restoring is the true GP tank with the push in bung type cap and when a customer saw it the other day he wanted to buy it but we said its definitely not for sale. Many people who build replica B44 GPs using Faber frames etc just use the victor enduro/special tank which is still alloy but has a folding type alloy cap and they are much easier to find than the GP tanks. You can actually buy replica/repro tanks from places like Sammy Miller in UK. That extra case on the right side of the C15 on ebay is certainly not original. As Firko says it looks like they changed it from a distributor to a magneto. I’ve never seen that as a factory set up in any of my many BSA books so must be a home conversion. That frame with that oil tank came out in 1963 so that bike would be no older than that. The exhaust originally tucked in behind the frame too. A lot of the small british bikes like the C15 don’t interest the general british bike fans as most are into the big 500-850 bikes but bikes like the C15/B40’s etc are becoming quite popular with the vintage mx/trials crowd so if you got one for sale but cant sell it you gotta get it advertised to the right market and the people who like those smaller offroad bikes will pay pretty good money for them. Pretty much all british offroad bikes are now desirable, highly sought after and collectable now, when several yrs ago you probably couldn’t give them away, so they shouldn’t be given away for cartons of beer anymore! Over all since the alloy tank is worth a couple hundred I think the buyer got a fairly goodish deal.
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I bow to your knowledge Leith. I was relying on my Brit bike loving mates knowledge and what little I know about the C15.
It's all history now anyway and now that I've had time to think I'm kind of glad that I missed it. With the three big dollar builds going on in my shed right now and two others waiting in the wings it would have been a long time before I got to it.
Apparently the Magneto conversion was a locally produced item. My mate has one on a B40 engine he got in an old slider frame and it's a very neat job, similar to the American ARD conversion.
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i got some very good BSA books with heaps os data, specs, info etc on most models and a lot of the engine numbers and frame number so if you ever need to know anything just ask.
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"HUSQVARNA TITANIUM WORKS PARTS" Item number: 120195888720
Is it possible to tell if something is titanium just by looking at it?
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Ed
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Yowzers!!!!!.....
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