OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tim754 on October 24, 2008, 06:25:42 pm
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Tim Derrick aka Tim754 Here.
I am going to state my views on this the most contentious issue of all. For both solo and sidecars.
If it is made prior to the first of January 1975 it is Vintage/Classic head in the sand. golden age, VMX This will not change in my eyes with the passage of time.
After that like pre78 sorry ,pre80 pre85 pre90 etc IT IS NOT. Call it something else as some do already.
If I could work out how have a poll again I would have had Agree or Do Not Agree as the two responses. Now please respond agree or don't agree if you like but try leaving your real name and how about NO long wordy reasons why. ;)
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agree'd ;) (with reservations as to what vintage really means) my bikes = old bikes and classics maaaaaaybe, but in my eyes they're not vintage ;)
oops..late edit. Chris Wright aka Doc
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Loved the sixty's cause I was born.
Alison Wendy
AGREE
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Agreed 100% Walter Preisig
YSS 100% disagred , the more shocks the merrier :D. Jokes aside there is a big gap between the two eras.
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Agree 100% ;D Garry A Bailey jimson or shithead what ever makes you happy :-*
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Sorry Guys, I disagree
The word "Vintage" to me means something from the 40's or beyond. We have all used the word to mean what we want it to mean and now it seems we don't like it being stretched to suit something else ???
Vintage......
old-fashioned or obsolete:
representing the high quality of a past time:
A group or collection of people or things sharing certain characteristics
Old or outmoded.
Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal
Geoff Morris
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DON'T AGREE!!, that would mean half of the bikes designated as 1975 models would comply (being built in 1974) and the other half built in the following year would not, how would you determine if a 1975 YZ250B was built in 1974 or 1975, you couldn't.
Fair enough if they were designated year model bikes, but "being made" before january 1 1975 is just plain confusing and impossible to police.
as far as "Vintage" is concerned, you can control the termonology about as much as you can control time, can you control the "Vintage" of wine?
So what would we call this website??, oldmxbikesfrombefore1990.com?
We also have the right to privicy
E74
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short travel twin shock, long travel twin shock and then everything else
motors control the time
pre 75 is classic, its like music or cars , each has a style period you can classify :)
what was the question ?
TImbo to do a pole go to the section and next to where you push the new topic/thread the next button over say "new poll" just push that and away you go
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Tim Pm sent
Cheers
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Agree and disagree.
If we're arguing over the word "vintage", then I'm happy to agree - but I don't really give a rat's either.
If we're arguing over whether a bike made after 1974 has a place in the broader "old dirt bike scene" (and the assertion is that they don't), then I definitely disagree.
Nathan Senior, 1976 model.
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E74 Your privacy is respected as I did write "your name if you like" .Glad someone did the old hair split about designated 1975 models too . My mistake not immediately nailing those bikes out of the era too. Regarding the words Vintage and Classic maybe better we drop them immediately from Historic Scrambles and Motocross Racing and Presentation.
Oldfart PM read Maybe you could post it here ? (your privacy respected) and my reply too ,as it is very relevant to the thread, Tim
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Any chance you could all get together & agree how to fix the World Economic Crisis problem ??? ie the drought, poverty, unemployment, global warming, frozen self funded retirement funds, drugs and this annoying pimple that keeps coming up on my arse ??? Maybe you should all just enjoy your old bikes & dont get too wrapped up in the viscious world of VMX :o
Mr Maico # 54 ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Make me boss of the world...I fix all 8) Tim
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:D I think calling our bikes 'vintage' or 'classic' makes us feel better..if not, Take Bex BEX! ;) Recommended by 9 out of 10 Doctors before, after and during vintage riding ;D
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Sorry if I sounded abrupt, I have been involved with motocross, enduro's and everything inbetween for the last 30 odd years and the very thing that f*cks the whole thing up is politics,.. I have seen it too many times, and I am just not interested in listening to it anymore.
So i'm with you two shocks, I just want to enjoy my old bikes and if I get disqualified for some scruitinazi bullshit I really don't give a shit and I will certainly voice it :o
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Hey E74 its coming too the end of the season ,so that makes it silly season and Santa is gearing up for fast dispatch :o
Its OK to go off :o political wise ,we haven't got to the Christmas carols yet ;D
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yeah, I've sorta stuck the hoof in the mouth on the odd occassion of late and I apologize to anyone offended. I'm really keen to get out there and get some 'hours' on my bikes and this is my main reason for steering away from the vmx scene. I just want to ride, ride and then ride some more and not complaining but for less buck I can get a heck of a lot more 'differing' ride time on bikes that are otherwise sitting dormant in the garage. Nothing like riding with a hundred or more enthusiasts at organized meetings but for me riding has always been an individual thing I did cause I love it and rarely was it a competitive thing, whether I'm with 1 riding buddy or a dozen I still get the same enjoyment from simply going riding and coming across all types of different scenario's out in the sticks. 5 years ago I'd have laughed at anyone calling my bikes vintage, they're not vintage they're just old bikes I've become very attached to ;)
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I'm with Chris (Doc), when it comes to just enjoying a ride on my "old bikes" even if they are only 8 years old or 35 years old.
Competing in my first moto-x in many years in VMXWA's series of race meetings I have come to the realisation that, while I enjoy riding with similar people on similar machines, I can't do it every time or on every track.
The problem my club faces is that WA is a HUGE state and not everyone wants, what should be a day trip, turning into a camping weekend so numbers decline somewhat. My clubs home track is a 460km round trip for me (and I live in Perth!) so I can only afford to go once per year, other tracks such as Collie, Bunbury & Manjimup are just TOO far away and the rest are on average about 140km from home.
Next year I plan to only do the natural terrain tracks ( Wandering, Dyback park, York, Clackline) and one trip to Narrogin, this fits my budget and my physical limitations (Beverly track is now a no go thanks to it's ten 2M high table-top jumps per lap) nicely but I still want to ride more often. Suburban encroachment and logging have seen Perths nearest public riding areas dissappear or shrink to useless status so I hope to encourage the club commitee to letterbox drop some flyers with local farmers to see if alternative natural tracks can be aquired even if it's once per year.
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CG travel is a very interesting subject.
Our local mx club has mostly Perth based members and the VMXWA has people from all over,so if there is an VMX event down south its less for us, more for you.visa versa.
Some of our round trips for VMX(camping a must) can be 500km.
Extra costs are beverages on board for camp night ;D
I think alot of WA folk have been born and bred to travel. 8)
Next year our son wants to ride modern in the south west.
OH for the LOTTO life.
cu
alison
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Tim Derrick aka Tim754 Here.
I am going to state my views on this the most contentious issue of all. For both solo and sidecars.
If it is made prior to the first of January 1975 it is Vintage/Classic head in the sand. golden age, VMX This will not change in my eyes with the passage of time.
After that like pre78 sorry ,pre80 pre85 pre90 etc IT IS NOT. Call it something else as some do already.
If I could work out how have a poll again I would have had Agree or Do Not Agree as the two responses. Now please respond agree or don't agree if you like but try leaving your real name and how about NO long wordy reasons why. ;)
Yeah - but nuh! I'm (a little bit) like Nathan, I like to justify my reasoning.
Just ignore it if it looks too long and scroll to the bottom line.
So, seeing as you're asking... I think of 'Vintage' as referring to Model T Fords and Sopwith Camels; that sort of era.
You know, back when the World was black & white?
However, the name 'Vintage MX' has been adopted and I'm not about to challenge it.
For me the MX Golden Years are the mid to late 70's and that's for no other reason than that being 'my time' in the sport.
MR Motocross was at it's peak, it was televised and the sport was buzzing!
I first hopped on a bike back on ANZAC Day 1976.
Following on my first and second race bikes, the RM125B and the KX250A4 were the moderns of their time.
These bikes and that era are my little piece of nostalgia, and that's not to say the other (and earlier) eras and bikes are any less deserving.
Back then I had little knowledge of the pre '75 bikes; anything earlier was just 'old bikes'.
Back then I had pretty much the same attitude as todays youth hammering MX tracks on their moderns.
I don't think they care (I certainly didn't) for anything earlier than their own bikes.
And reading through the 'QVMX pre 90 thread' I suggest many of us can be accused of that.
Agree or disagree...nah, I think earlier than '79.
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Always believed 30+ years made for vintage, nothing less so would disagree and say pre 78 would now be in the fold
Ross Merrick (1962)
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How about Historic Motorcross, just like in historic road racing and adopt a "period system" such as below;
Period 1 = Pre '65
Period 2 = Pre '75
Period 3 = Pre '78
Period 4 = Pre '85
Period 5 = Pre '90
You can the just keep adding periods for any other significant technological change that occour.
These same periods (classes) could also be used for Historic Enduro events.
This will get rid of all the arguing about the definitions of "vintage" and "Classic".
Edit: I have just seen a post in another part of the forum titled "Obsolete". Maybe the sport should be called OBSOLETE MOTORCROSS!
Colin Jay
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How about Historic Motorcross, just like in historic road racing and adopt a "period system" such as below;
Period 1 = Pre '65
Period 2 = Pre '75
Period 3 = Pre '78
Period 4 = Pre '85
Period 5 = Pre '90
You can the just keep adding periods for any other significant technological change that occour.
These same periods (classes) could also be used for Historic Enduro events.
This will get rid of all the arguing about the definitions of "vintage" and "Classic".
Edit: I have just seen a post in another part of the forum titled "Obsolete". Maybe the sport should be called OBSOLETE MOTORCROSS!
Colin Jay
Thats a great idea if the tracks would not chop up and no man made jumps ;)
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I'd like to think all VMX tracks would be pre '75 friendly.
However, as the sport accepts newer bikes and younger riders it's inevitable requests for bigger jumps will be put forward.
It may be a solution to add/delete sections of track as they do for the Juniors.
The older bikes would race the 'friendly' section and the gnarly jumps and scary stuff would be an additional area opened up as the 'vintage moderns' lined up for the start.
I suppose that's 'progress' if newer machines are to race at the same tracks as the twin shockers. :-\
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i remember at ACUSA park one year they had deviations/shortcuts for the older pre 75 bikes. That day there was everything from vintage right up to modern solos and sidecars all on the same track.
i also think there is too much of a gap to have a class pre 78 then jump to pre 85. that is too much of a big gap. bikes from about 81-84 are miles ahead of 78,79, 80 bikes in the suspension department
i would maybe have pre 78 then a pre 85 twinshock only class and then a pre 85 single shock or something like that.
you could maybe have pre 81 which allows the RM- T to compete with other twinshocks but then you have a problem of the 1980 uni track kawasakis??. if its pre 80 that means the RM-T's have to compete against the full floaters up to 84 and i dont think that is right. I dont know, there just seems to a problem in this area of around 1980 when linkage bikes came out.
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Me ?? I now call it Historic Motocross. Again this thread slipped down the wordy path, A simple yes or no, was all I asked. No justification needed and certainly no abusive phone calls to my house!!!!!! Graeme feel free to remove this . too
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That is sad, you really know how to attract them Tim.
Even if you did put up a poll you would have us explaining our reasoning any way.
To clarify, I'm not against using the word "vintage" even if you changed the name I would still call it vintage MX as that is what rolls of the tongue, I am just against anyone claiming ownership of the word. It just reminds me of the recent fight over the word "ugg"
I see no reason to have enemies over this sort of disagreement.
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We know that thug , Tim dont let him get to you , you have done nothing wrong. We can all agree to disagree on this forum. If he does it to me again , I will tape him and report him .
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It's really sad to think that any one of us would go that far.
We've all has disagreements and probably typed things we've thought better of afterwards, but that's taking it waaaaay too far.
I know it can't really happen, but I'd love to see the person that would do that sort of thing publically exposed. >:(
btw I reckon that to be vintage, it should be 30+ years old.
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Does that mean us 50+ years olds are now dinosaurs or at best useless ancient relics??? :D
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How about Historic Motorcross, just like in historic road racing and adopt a "period system" such as below;
Period 1 = Pre '65
Period 2 = Pre '75
Period 3 = Pre '78
Period 4 = Pre '85
Period 5 = Pre '90
You know. the more I think about this, the more I like it. It's simple, easy to understand and, like Colin says, easily added to when needed. It'd fit in nicely under the overall 'Vintage Motocross' generic title.
I wonder if the 'phonecall guy' is the same bloke who rang and slagged me a couple of times after I wrote something or other that he didn't agree with on this forum. The funny thing is I have a pretty good idea who it is after recognising his voice while having a conversation with him at CD4 where he sucked up so bad I thought he was going to kiss me :-*. He used to be a regular but doesn't pop up very much any more. He sent me some doozie PMs as well. Don't worry about the pathetic twerp Tim, I believe that Karma will eventually catch up with him. Thankfully our sport is largely populated by decent folk who wouldn't sink so low. Didn't you have a similar situation a few years ago?
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Looks a fair plan to me too. Unfortunately I did have another gutless wonder incident but that was sorted out by Telstra and the Federal police... At a substantial cost to the creep/s.
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expose the lil forkers for they should not be in the "vintage' or "veteran" movement we have enough old ladies and politics without having freaks that call peoples homes. ???
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Glade you got him . This forum dosent need dickheads like him.
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without having freaks that call peoples homes. ???
Wasnt me man, this freaks too tight to pay for phone calls :D :D ;D
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Definitely was not out pet "Freak" ;) would miss the hours spent racking my brain trying to decipher some of Freaky posts, forget simpleton stuff like cryptic crosswords or mensa soduku he really poses a challenge !!! Cheers ;)
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Actually im bi polar, sometimes the chap that starts the post isnt the guy that finishes it and the bitsin the middle is ma brain switchin over.
he he he
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Actually im bi polar, sometimes the chap that starts the post isnt the guy that finishes it and the bitsin the middle is ma brain switchin over.
he he he
GOOD TO SEE YOU ARE INFLUENCED BY MA Freaky,,,,,geez I'm pickn now ;) ;D 8)
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Cruel aren't we Stevens (VMX247) shoulder and ribs most likely hurt like f**k and us buggers are making him laugh :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
See Vmx Sidecars Steve did the endo bit and is feeling the shitfull broken shoulder bit..ouch..... :-[
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its me Tim,,, Alison,just having a free dig at Freaky ;)
cause I know how much he gets on with MA rules etc ;D
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Since this thread is already highjacked , I wish you a speedy recovery too .
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Thanks YSS,just heard from the passenger and he has broken two bones in his hand and separated the knuckle on his fore finger. Steven
This topic has not really been hijacked as we are still writing about Vintage/Classic Nortons hehehehe ;) ;) Alison