OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: Jens on September 15, 2008, 03:06:29 am
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Hello folks!
Needing some advice on my latest project. Found me self a cheap -82 DR 400 this summer and since I already have a -80 125 RM chassis I thought what the heck, why not combine these two to make me the perfect thumper! Maybe this is the wrong way to go? Seen a couple of DRM conversions (only on paper though) before and they have all been based on RM 250/500 chassis (same chassis I belive) so my question is, is it possible at all, any big differences between a 125 chassis and a 250/500? The same wheelbase, ridehight etc etc or? If someone is sitting a 125 and a 250/500 I'll be glad to get some messurements and ofc DRM builders please point me in the right direction.
Full throttle folks!
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Jens the DR 400 motor is too tall to fit into a RM frame .
Dr 400 frames are as close as they get to Rm frames , ;)
type Dr 400 into search colum ....RH corner ( above )
Option 1 ..... Do as I have done cut and shut a Dr 400 frame and add Rm parts.
Option 2 ..... Rm or PE 250 -400 frame ( 1980 ) by removing and adding the DR engine craddle.
Bazza DRM 400 Read VMX mag # 24 page 45
Oldfart DRM 400
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Mine worked out well too:
SP370 engine loop of frame, SP370/DR400 motor and airbox
RM250C (1978) front end, swingarm, tank, wheels, seat, sidecovers and rear subframe
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Thanks for the tips mates!
Oldfart, I did give it a try searching old posts for DRM´s but the only project i did find was a DR 400 engine into a PE 400 frame, looking smooth. So my question is, could you either point me to pics of your bike in older posts or even, if I may be so bold asking, fit a couple of pics into this post as well?
Jens
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Option 3
Wait till CD6 where I should have a replica Hallman-Suzuki frame on show.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Hallman-Suzuki-1b.jpg)
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That looks GOOD!! :o ;D It will certainly be easier to get a new tank than those YZc HL replica's ;)
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are going to make it just by going by that photo or do you have a frame to copy?
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Option 3
Wait till CD6 where I should have a replica Hallman-Suzuki frame on show.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Hallman-Suzuki-1b.jpg)
Now you tell me, just after I gave away all my SP 'junk' ::).
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That is very nice. I only found out very recently that they made those kits. I remember when I had an SP370, I was always reading about trick SP/DRs. Dirt Bike had a few good articles on RM/PE/DRs, and ADB had a nice looking one in it at some stage. My SP was used for trailriding and enduros and I recall it being a fun bike.
It had a plastic tank, Boge shocks, Protec cam, S+W valve springs, Hi-Comp piston, 36mm carb, lightly ported head and a nice pipe. Set up like that it was about as fast as a stock TT500, handled better, was easier to start and good fun. Of course, it was also slower than my mate's IT400, far heavier than my other mates PE250, and to say it handled better than a TT500 is perhaps not much of a recommendation. But it was neat to ride, and to have slung that engine in a Hallman chassis would have been way cool.
Look forward to seeing it!
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I did a little research in this area some time ago. Apparently Dick Mann made 25 frames to suit the DR370 engine in the late 70's, but I have never seen one or even had anyone confirm their existance despite a LOT of emails/phone calls. Rick Sieman had never seen one and Dick Mann never returned any of my emails. Makes me want one even more........... ;)
If you want to be put off by the idea of building a DRM, talk to Rick Sieman about his evil project.......... ;) He eventually sold that to the head of Maico at the time................
Graeme Boyd does have a C&J frame to suit that he won't sell. He had mentioned making a copy of it once............ :-\
I've also got the Motocross action Test of the Hallman DR370. PM me if anyone wants a copy.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1063360/IMAGE0001Web.jpg)
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GMC is that the frame you had at CD5 and some chap from Suzuki of New Castle was comparing to my set up .
The posted pic looks nice :)
Go to suzuki pages # 2 half way down DRM 400
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"Some guy from Suzuki of Newcastle" is Graeme Boyd....... ;D
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Hagon also made a monocoque frame for the DR/SP engine that I assume is similar to the Yamaha Hagon that Jonesy has.
We'll all die of old age before Graeme Boyd either sells any of his hoarded collection or makes a copy of his C&J. He's got some tasty stuff but none of us mere peasants will ever see them...
Below: Jonesys Hagon Yamaha. Martin Hagon has a DR400 powered version that he races in the UK.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Hagon001.jpg)
Mike Jollys DR400 in NZ
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/SIRSU-dr2.jpg)
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Your proposal is certainly interesting GMC since the Hallman frames essentially is rebuild -74 Husqvarna CR frames. Shouldn't be too hard finding one of those since I live in sweden... But still I wonder if I couldnt squeze the DR 400 lump into the RM frame, ofc there would have to be made some serious mods to the cradle and further more. Well, have to give that one a good thinkover.
Oldfart, if you got some good explanatory pics of your DRM I would be very glad if you could priv them to me or just paste theme here ;)
So long folks and remember:
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Forgot this:
http://www.thumperpilot.com/pages/DSCF0010.htm (edit: sorry, looked at the bike again and saw it was a yamaha and not zusuki :-( , colors tricked me)
If you all haven´t been to www.thumperpilot.com go there. Some pretty sweet rides, you could also upload pics of your own rides, atleast the good lot of you riding thumpers...
Jens
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yes it can be done. there is an article in issue 30 of VMX magazine of a DR 400 in a PE 400 frame. it looks to have the lower cradle changed though. so the 80-82 PE 250 and 400 frames are all the same (except for 81 and 82 having 2 extra frame loops instead of an alloy bash plate as on the 1980 model) and these frames are the same basic dimensions as a RM 250 T and probably RM 250 N as a RM 250 motor is same as the bottom end of a PE 250 and 400. i would say if you had a 79 or 80 RM 250 frame or a 80-82 PE 250 or 400 frame you could do it but welding will be involved!
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For what it is worth here are pictures of my RM250C/SP370/400 taken in about 1980. It is still the same now but looks a bit neglected after 28 years.
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Side view
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Dr 400 frame 1980 with added brackets to take Rm 250-400T NOS side covers .
remove all unwanted factory brackets and tidy up thier welds
Beef up the frame foot peg mounts as they are not to strong ( re weld and add a fillet )
Leave the muffler bracket on as you will need this to mount the exhaust to
Cdi unit is mounted on Rhs behind frame cover ... tags welded on frame next to frame cover
Steer stop added addd at head
Tank frame mount relocated at head
Coil mount changed to suit Rm 125 b tank
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Tank Rm 125 b Seat Rm 125 b swing arm Rm 250 c2 Frame covers Rm 250 -400 T
rear wheel Dr 500 - Front Dr 400 Rear shock Dr 500 ( usa )
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I reckon ive got some photos of some trick modified DR 370/400’s somewhere. I think I got a photo of the white brothers modified DR 400 and FMF DR 370. I will see what I can find and scan it
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oldfart, are those stock KYB DR 500 shocks? they look a lot like the french DeCarbons.
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You may be a bit harsh on Graeme Boyd as it is his Hallman frame that I have to jig from. It appears to be NOS, never used but very rusty.
MX250, pity you didn't throw your SP stuff my way ;D
I would like to get hold of some engine cases, head & barrel. Empty cases, any condition so long as the all engine mounts are in good condition.
Yes Oldfart that was the frame we were comparing with several suzuki models. I only got to see your DRM briefly but it looked like you had done a proffesional job of it. I was going to came back for another look/chat but the 3 days just went too quick.
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Your proposal is certainly interesting GMC since the Hallman frames essentially is rebuild -74 Husqvarna CR frames. Shouldn't be too hard finding one of those since I live in sweden...
Yes the Hallman frame is very similar to the HL frame which was styled from the Husky frame allthough I beleive it was more likely a 76-77 frame.
Hallman also had a Honda version available.
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I would like to get hold of some engine cases, head & barrel. Empty cases, any condition so long as the all engine mounts are in good condition.
Geoff, I have plenty of SP engine parts spare if you need for jigging. Email sent............. ;D
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Thanks for all the input mates!
Now, one final (atleast on this stage) question for you Oldfart. Do you know the length of those shocks? I intend to use a couple of Ohlins shocks I have laying around, I know they are of the same lengt as the stock Suzuki 125 -80 shocks but I believe they are longer than the DR´s? So out with the old folding ruler lemme know! I suspect I´ll have to make new upper mounts for the shocks.
Thanks again and cheers!
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This is an interesting thread in a direction I've been considering myself.
Can anyone tell me how heavy a standard SP370/DR400 frame is?
Also Oldie, how heavy is yr completed DRM?
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also Jens you can fit longer bottom eyelets to you ohlins to make them longer.
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MX250, pity you didn't throw your SP stuff my way ;D
You'll be pleased to know thet went to a good and deserving cause and they are been used in a 'get to work' hack.
I didn't think that they were 'in demand' bits - XT, XR etc yeah, but the old dreary SP370 ::) :o :P. But I'm pleased they went to a worthy cause and are actually being used.
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Shocks are KYB 3329
Length of shock eye centres = 397
Weight of bike ... not known , a hell of a lot lighter than it started out at :)
Turns into corners fine, you hardly need to use the brakes due to engine compression . Rear suspension is to my liking but the front needs sorting out as I have it too harsh ( trying a different set up this weekend )
I have a sister bike on the go at the moment using a Dr seat and tank combo finished in Rm T( 1980 ) colours
using a Sp 370 motor with a lager bore ;) seems to rev harder
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This is an interesting thread in a direction I've been considering myself.
Can anyone tell me how heavy a standard SP370/DR400 frame is?
Also Oldie, how heavy is yr completed DRM?
I didn't weigh my SP370 frame before chopping it but I'm sure it was nothing special ie very similar in weight to the RM250C frame that was also chopped for the job. I would say the SP370 motor is noticably heavier than the RM motor. My finished bike is 105kg in MX trim with an empty fuel tank.
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Thanks for the shocklength Oldfart!
I do belive you mean 397mm (397cm = 3,97m), mine are 430mm which means I´lll have to do some work to the frame to fit the Ohlin shocks. was also thinking of changing the upper rear end to RM pieces since they are not as wide as the DR. Front forks from let´s say 83/84 RM and it should turn out to a magnificent bike wouldn´t you all say? I have some ongoing projects atm, my Curtis Honda which seems to take forever to sort out :-\ but I´m really looking forward to get started with the DRM. Again big thanks to ya all, and remember:
Full throttle!
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Oldie,
Love the sister bike.
What carbs are you using?
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Carbs are Vm series 135 main & 15 pilot - I found the 36 mikuni slide needle gave more top end, but was not that responsive in the bootom end where it all happens in 4 bangers ;
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Jens
I am unsure whether this is relevant. If my memory serves me correctly I ordered a set of Ohlins which were 43, 5 cm lon centre eye to centre eye. I then decidede that I would rather use these shocks on my SUZUKI RM 370 -required shock length 39,5 cm centre to centre. I had the shaft shortened to desired length. Suspension works fine - net result saved me buying new rear shocks.
Hope it helps.
G
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(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-6/1192012/DR400.JPG)
here is a White brothers modified USA enduro DR 400. cant tell you much about it. its got some remote reservoir shocks, probably has a WB/Pro-Fab swing arm, Simons forks, different side pannels, Preston Petty front fender, SuperTrap muffler.
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(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-6/1192012/fmfDR370.jpg)
The Al Baker’s FMF modified Suzuki DR370
Engine
38mm E.I. carby
FMF High lift cam
S&W valve springs
Mototec ignition
FMF tuned exhaust system with super trap muffler
400cc big bore kit
K & N filter
Suspension
9 inch Al Baker fork kit (springs & damper rods)
FMF air fork equalizer caps
15.5 inch S&W freon cell shocks
FMF alloy swingarm (option of banana or straight)
FMF roller chain tensioner
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I´m thankful for all the help given by all you gentle lads.
Crabman, you shortend the shocks you said. Didn´t know that was possible. Might be much better alternative than cutting the frame. One question, how do you do it? Oughta be 30mm to loose just before the downward eyes...
Sweet looking bike LWC....
Full Throttle!
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Jens
I had the work done through a reputable service Ohlins service agent. I am leaving on a weeks adventure ride on my 990 tomorrow. I will look to contact before I leave the service agent that did the work, my understanding albeit limited is that the shaft unscrews on one end, I think that the shaft was shortened and rethreaded. PS the shortened rear shocks by all accounts work well.
However that is my uneducated guess on what I think i remember.
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Jens
Sorry I forgot today was a public holiday in South Africa, if you want I will contact the dealer on my return around 05 October 2008. The guy is Martin Paetzold and maybe you can google and look up his web page and email him directly. Feel free to use my name Gavin Williams for reference purposes, also refer him to the job he did on a Maico 490 ( belongs to a fine fellow called Adriaan) that also required a shortening of the Ohlins, this was also a job well done. Thanks G
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Thanks for the tips Crabman!
The problem, or maybe not ;D is that I live in Sweden. Shouldn´t be too hard too find an Öhlin´s dealer around who could do the trick. Yet thanks again for putting me in the right direction!
Full throttle Crab!
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here's one for all ya DR nutters (that's me included ;D)..not a DRM but probably one of the nicest looking DR500's I've ever laid eyes on and I could so easilly reach the ground..if I wanted to..;)
(http://osysga.bay.livefilestore.com/y1plUXTN3iDy7ZUFn9m4bhkpGifdOIbNeKygWRQdyr6ojUorc6BiEBwbd6XJ3pu3U7sLfbIVggf1JU/Mark%20Anderson's%20Staracer%20DR500%20Suzuki.jpg)
Mark Anderson owner - Staracer Frame.
There are a heap of step by step Suzuki DR 500 Special photo's by Moreno from Italy at the link below. Working on the translation of his text ;)
http://cid-86267c09a3452a71.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Vintage%20Suzuki%20General%20Technical%20and%20Specifications/Suzuki%20DR%20500%20Special%20%20Project%20courtesy%20of%20Moreno%20from%20Italy (http://cid-86267c09a3452a71.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Vintage%20Suzuki%20General%20Technical%20and%20Specifications/Suzuki%20DR%20500%20Special%20%20Project%20courtesy%20of%20Moreno%20from%20Italy)
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aftermarket DR 370 pipe
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-DR370-AFTERMARKET-HEADER-VINTAGE-MOTOX-AHRMA_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1207Q7c39Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem310085858379QQitemZ310085858379
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Why bother with the Dr 400. I put together the what I think first DRM 400 after readind an old article in ADB when they modified an SP370.In 03 04 before CD3 I the raced the DRM at the heaven and Canberra clubs. Graeme Mc actually gave my bike the name DRM due to me putting a RM125n seat on with of course RM letters in yellow on the side of the seat. So DRM was born, and it had 125B tank RM 250 C swingarm and PE front end. But the power to weight isn't the greatest. I will be finishing before CD6 I hope a DR500 with a different frame which should improve handling. I weighed an rm and a dr frame and couldn't find much difference, lets face it a big bore 4 stroke is heavy and it needs to handle and compensate for the weight with HP. So a 4 valve 500 is way better than a 2 valve 400 of similar weight.
I'll try to dig up some pics and info on the DRM as it was fun at CD3 at Barrabool just a bit gutless. Graeme if you still have the feature you did on the bike can you forward it to me.
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And the bloody thing sold for bugger all........................ which was more than I had at the time........................ >:(
Wonder if I could buy it for the same money now................ ;)
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and now for some lateral type thinking ;)
enter the GNR400 :D
(http://osysga.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pKDlIRvtGJ-ev7OpDmln6dXcm1xlmUpjA2HT4_16x5Maa_wct_S92lx5lGRUbQ5M6Hk__AN31_I4/1981%20GN400%20DR%20mutant.jpg)
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I have a DR400 in the UK that I've used for rallies
It's got a 32mm SP370 carb as I couldn't get the jetting remotely close with the 33mm DR 400 slide carb. If I swap the needle/needle jet it may work. The 370 needle was made just for that motor and is no longer available, though UK Mikuni specialists say there are needles fairly close that might work with the needle set in a different position. The standard carb works ok with just a free flowing exhaust but once you cut away the snorkel base on the underside of the airbox trumpet it all goes haywire. [ it works ok with just the snorkel removed]. The 370 carb, though only 1 mm smaller uses a narrower slide. The 370 carb produces noticeably more power everywhere and only needs the needle dropped one notch and the main jet dropped one or two sizes. These motors [standard internals or not] always seem to need the jetting leaned out on the mikuni slide carbs when running less restrictive exhaust and/ or inlet. I run the DR 400 idle jet in the 370 carb. The 400's is two sizes leaner which the derestricted engine needs
I have the intake weir ground off [a la Dirt Bike mag] and run a Protec copy street and track cam built by Phil Joy. I've had that cam for well on 25 years. It fills the mid range hole that the standard cam has, but you need to use aftermarket springs or the followers take off coming off the lobe. If I were just trail riding I'd be inclined to leave the intake weir as is as I think it would be less inclined to occasionally die when dropping back to idle and would have a touch more oomph straight of idle.
I use Protec aluminium keepers and Ford Cortina springs [there are a few different types] These were the same spring rate as Protecs but not made out of knicker elastic. Mega Cycle have cams and spring kits available
As for suspension I'm running 1981 38mm RM125 forks and yokes. This was a mistake as I've had to change the wheel and I'm running the TLS RM500 1984 brake. This uses the same hub as the 1981 RM.
It's not good and I'm going to get it skimmed and relined using forklift track braking material. By the way this a brand new hub and brake plate and it's still not a vast improvement on the old DR brake
The 1980 forks have a smaller wheel spindle. With hindsight I would have waited for a 1980 fork to turn up.
Prior to that I had PE 175 36mm forks which weren't stiff enough, the front end wandered at speed.
The rear shocks are 16.5 eye to eye to get the head angle back in sync, That,s as long as you can go using the DR swingarm
I've got Falcons, 4.5 inch stroke single spring slightly wider body but not piggyback They work a lot better than Hagons
I've used the PE175 swing arm which fits everywhere except the swing arm pivot. You need reducer washers to allow for the smaller spindle. I think the PE 250/400 ally swing arm has a bigger pivot. These swingarms are maybe a couple of cm longer which seems to help. A friend of mine said the DR was known to be a bit light on the front end but he's big and has to sit well back on a bike. I haven't had a problem but I'm skinny. However the shock placement is further forwad so one needs a shorter shock to boot and that means it's working harder. so I stuck the steel DR swingarm back on/ Maybe a PE 250 swingarm with the shock bolt placed a la the DR would be the best ticket.
It's interesting to hear that there isn't much weight difference between a RM and DR frame. Previously people have said that the DR frame was overbuilt. The other thing is that there not much difference between a DR 400 engine and a XT 500 in weight either!
White Bros used to have a 420cc high compression piston, a Wiseco I think. Any more than that and the tuners had engine problems, though they didn't specify what. The clutch plates spring don't seem to last long, though on measuring there seems virtually no wear on the friction plates so maybe it's more the springs, which do sack. Nobody currently seems to have found a piston which works. Increasing capacity has come from stroking the engine. The first test of the DR 500 found no increase in power over the 400, though they did place well in the Paris Dakar, so they must be tough, again Mega Cycle have stuff, and a lot of the running gear is the same as the 400.
The worst thing about the bike is the rear wheel and cush drive. The bearings don't last long in mud and it's fiddly to refit after a puncture. I'm tempted to sling the lot and convert to a rear disc
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some more lateral thinking..it's not what it appears so KTM purists need not be upset :D
(http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/8703/hpim4642hx6.jpg)
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So what is it Doc? Excuse my ignorance on DR's - is it mostly Suzuki under the KTM cosmetics? Looks nice whatever it is.
Where'd you find the pic?
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Yes JC KTM tank and covers on a fairly modified DR500. The picture came from the page below
http://www.soloenduro.it/ubbthreads1/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=778786&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&nohead= (http://www.soloenduro.it/ubbthreads1/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=778786&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&nohead=)
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Mag cover is a dead set give away its a DR 500 plus the black box on frame rail .
Forks look like they came off a disc brake front end
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The project is running slowly...
I think I´ve found a suitable front fork, RM 250 -85 (perhaps someone knows the diameter on that one?) I know it´s for disc brakes but wouldn´t be hard to adapt it for drumbrakes. Now for the trick question: Does anyone know how to get a hold on a workshop manual for a DR 400? Been "vacuming" the web for days now without any result. So if anyone knows where to find a copy or perhaps someone sitting on spare one or a manual and no bike I´m intersted.
Full throttle!
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www.repairmanual.com hmmm but doesnt appear to be one there either
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-Workshop-Manual-SP400-and-DR400-1980-on-FACTORY_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38663QQihZ025QQitemZ380078783356QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-SP370-SERVICE-MANUAL-OEM-DR400-DR370-GN400-ALSO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38663QQihZ023QQitemZ360106035961QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-DR370-DR400-DR500-DR650-DR-Z400-Part-XRef-Manual_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ38663QQihZ020QQitemZ300122343783QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V
nothing currently made by clymer and haynes
cycle serve may still do one. i know they do SP370
if anyone can provide you with the ISBN number of any old out of print manuals it will be possible to find them on line at a book site such as amazon
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I have the DR500S manual online and I thought I had an SP370 manual archived away but can't place it at this moment in time. Will look a bit harder when I get home. Here's the 500 link anyway, fairly smilar excepting a few specs obviously ;)
http://cid-86267c09a3452a71.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Suzuki%20125cc%20to%20500cc%20Service%20Manuals/1981-82%20DR500S%20X-Z%20Service%20Manual (http://cid-86267c09a3452a71.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Suzuki%20125cc%20to%20500cc%20Service%20Manuals/1981-82%20DR500S%20X-Z%20Service%20Manual)
doh! I just found the SP manual in the same online folder. It's a 30mb .rar file so download and unzip basically and you'll have it ;)
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SP/DR 370 & 400 singles 1987-1980 Clymer manual M 374 make sure you buy the full colour version , as it has a performance improvement section
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i couldnt find that on the clymer site
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this one ;)
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I´ve searched both Clymer and Haynes but I can´t find the manual on either of the sites. Clymer propably ran out and hasn´t published a reprint. Haynes necer printed it? Well I´m out of ideas...
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any of the links i gave any good?
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If you can, find a set of 84 RM Suzuki drum brake forks. They are they basically the same as the 85 disc brake units but have the boss for the drum brake rather then the spigots for the caliper mount. Most 78-83 Suzuki drum brake backing plates have the same construction dimensions (less axle diameter) meaning that the original Suzuki drum brake front wheel will bolt in with bugger all mods.
Did it with my 80 PE250 and you would swear it came from the factory like it.
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LWC, yes they are useful. I´d rather have the CLymer manual than the factory one, but hey, who can afford to be picky!
Bahnsy, i think I can find a -84 drumbreak, otherwise a Husky front wheel might do the trick. The shield holder on those are much easier to attach to almost any fork, of course with some small adjustments.
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both will have good useful info. you can never rely solely one source of information when doing a resto/project. the factory manuals can be very good and have info the clymers dont. its always good to have several differnt manuals.
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Can anyone tell me if DR 370 and 400 centre cases are interchangeable, what are the differences, I know the bore size is different 370 has points etc, thanks for any help.
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LHS is only differs at the mag cover , much larger at case screws . And no you can't mix match the cases
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Oldfart I have 38mm forks, have you found any springs that don't need air assist?
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Will keep you posted, as I will be working on bikes over Xmas period Too FN hot and no spare time leading up to xmas break
I have Honda XR 250 springs in at the moment plus a top out spring ...... too harsh on the flip side the Rm springs are too soft ::)
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Progressive Suspension in USA do springs for 38mm forks. They have a useful chart that allows you to select at least roughly the right spring. From posts I've seen S&W springs marked 430 for a 1980 Maico work.
1980 38 mm RM forks allow you to use the original front wheel. The later 38mm forks fit 1981 onwards RM 125 through to 500 drum brake wheels, which all use the same size wheel spindle and dust cap. The 125 465 and 500 use the same hub , the bigger bikes using two types of TLS brake. The first 250 uses a bigger SLS, I'm not sure about the later. With hindsight, if they'd used the 250 hub for a TLS brake they might have had a decent brake, maybe the works bike did?
The assortment of different brake plates fit both 38mm and 43?mm forks, apart from the 465 type TLS brake plate which has the cable stop on the stanchions so you need a matching set for that. Other than that it has the same brake parts as a 500
If you use the yokes off the 38mm RMs you have to press in the longer steerer tube from the DR400 which is juuuust long enough as the yokes are thicker. If you use the DR 400 yokes you have to get them reamed out by 2mm, which from what I've seen is all Suzuki did when they switched to the first 38mm stanchions.
The first 38mm stanchion forks lack the 4 [10mm] nut clamp on the non brake side which looks to be copied from Maico
All the above is culled from personal DR experience and checking USA mags. Of course OZ and UK models may not have been the same. UK and USA late PEs used different forks and front wheels.
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Just bought by phone an ally swingarm identical to Mike Jolly's. Turns out it's off a 78 400 RMC or 78 late model 250 [C2]. The shock mounts are further outboard than the 175 PE ally arm but the same width at the pivot [190mm including end caps].
Might also fit an XT500
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Check swing arm on LHS at pivot bearings, as they normaly flog out a bit. A bit thin for my liking ;)
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Well had one a SP 370, RM400c alloy swinging arm , Koni shocks, XL500 front end, Rm125 tank. KTM 250 seat, port and polished head, DR400 piston,through magneto away, use a gel cell battery to power the points, went like stink.
But alas a freind of mine introduced me to a machine I never thought much of a 1980 TT250 yamaha, after riding his I went and got one and sold the SP370.
The TT250 has IT175 shock, IT 250 front forks, 18inch rear wheel, ported head ,race cam, tuned exhast, 34mm carb,went from a standard 17.49 HP to 29.8HP on Serco's dyno, and she half the weight of any DR/SP thing :D
For this coming season she is going to have a high top Venolum piston giving 12.8 comp and some lightening to the crank, cant wait to pass a few more big bores
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Thanks Oldfart, I've checked and it's been returned.
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Graham,
Any pics of the TT250?
Be interested to know who did the port work on the head (Serco?) & whose cam are you running.
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Hi JC, The port work was done by George McKenzie, in Brisbane and the cam was designed by him and ground at Ivan Tighs, Brisbane.
Photo taken at Tamborine chasing my mate Brian :D
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My DRM was in VMX mag.The DR400 frame is all so close to a rm400 frame,email me on [email protected] for any help or photos,i now have rm125b tank and seat on to "slim up" bike
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I had a fair Idea it was you Mr haha, are you comming over for CD6 - if so you can have a ride on the sister bike ;D
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oldfart, that is a good tip for anyone looking at used '78 model RM swingarms in all capacities (excl. 80,60,50) they are indeed thin and do flog out at the slightest hint of bearing/bush wear :o when I was 16 I binned my then near new RM400 arm for this very reason..obviously in hindsight I was very silly yet again ::) I purchased a brand new item over the counter at near $180 from memory and then 5 years later it too became unusable. I tried to have it repaired by a local aluminium welding shop but that was a bigger mistake as they wrecked it even more :o I then switched to a '77 RM370 box section steel job and never had another problem for untold years ;D Only in the past 2 years have I found another 'affordable' 250c2 swingarm and refitted that but I'm keeping the steel item up my sleeve as a failsafe. PE250B also have basically the same arm as the 370 though not sure about shock positions. Bit of dribble but it does relate to the DRM as most go for the alloy '78 RM arms when there is little advantage excepting appearance. Problem with the PE arms is it's hard to find one not overly rusted out underneath at the rear. Depending on the rust severity this for my mind can be fixed easier than the alloy RM arm which will continue to need constant inspection. If someone offers up a 370 or PE250B item at the right price then it's a good asset to have up your sleeve when all else fails ;)
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Nice DRM
(http://www.leguidevert.com/forum/images/a180190_1.jpg)
(http://www.leguidevert.com/forum/images/a180204_3.jpg)
(http://www.leguidevert.com/forum/images/a180204_1.jpg)
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Some more
(http://www.leguidevert.com/forum/images/a180258_2.jpg)
(http://www.leguidevert.com/forum/images/a180258_1.jpg)
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I like the TM tank better than an RM one. Looks great
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The swingarm looks like a Hallman arm.
I was going to say the same for the frame until I saw a close up of the engine cradle.
Possibly a RM / PE frame with a Hallman swingarm from a HL
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swing arm is RM or PE with the gussets cut.
Whos bike is it? i want one of those bar pads.
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With the cutouts for the lower shock mounts I'd pick that swingarm as an RM item.
The whole bike looks well done. Not as good as a Yamaha tho............... ::)
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Started from this by the look.
(http://www.leguidevert.com/forum/images/a146911_1.jpg)
(http://www.leguidevert.com/forum/images/a146911_2.jpg)
(http://www.leguidevert.com/forum/images/a146920_2.jpg)
(http://www.leguidevert.com/forum/images/a146930_1.jpg)
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I also like this, but that could be just me :P
(http://www.leguidevert.com/forum/images/a202407_1.jpg)
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Very beutiful bike!
Jens
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The DRM was built by Jean-Francois Helaine. It has a standard engine with a 38mm carb, Jean Francois was kind enough to give me the jetting specs.
He used a RM rolling chassis with GN bottom rails and Simons forks. He placed 7th overall at the Farleigh Castle 2 day international meet. When he got back to France he found he'd bent both wheel spindles on the Farleigh jumps!
The detailing is flawless. In real life it stands comparison with the very best UK restorations.
He'd like to pep the motor up but Megacycle seem unwilling to deal with a foreigner. I can get a cam sorted using Ford springs but it's the dimensions of the keepers that is a problem
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Now we´re talking ;D
Cloggy, my pinkie for those specs? Fair enough? Seriously I´d be truly grateful if I could partake in those jetting specs.
What´s this about Megacycle not doing affairs with foreigner? I was just gonna ordrer me a new cam next month ??? They can´t be serious, can they?
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Well let's say foreign speaker. Whilst Jean-Francois's english is light years better than my french, it's not good enough for him to be sure of what he's ordering.
38 round slide Mikuni
Idle screw 3/4
Needle 6F16 middle clip
needle jet P8
3 slide
40 Idle jet
250 main
Back in the day it was thought 36 was the optimum but I would have thought the above would be close even on a 36
I didn't check what sort of intake arrangement he was running but the exhaust was big bore and running into a megaphone. In other words a tuned system
I'm pretty sure he's ground off the intake weir but that's about it.
I can get a Protec "Road and Track" copy cam from Phil Joy here in England but it needs slightly stronger springs. It beefs up the midrange
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Cloggy!
I would be very interested in a Phil Joy cam. I live in sweden, how do I get in contact with him (Phil Joy), aprox how is it (the cam). Megacyclecams have beefed up springs if I´ve understood their pricelist correctly, which oughta suit the application. Perhaps I should just wire you the money alongside with my adress and wait patiently like a child for christmas ;)
Jens
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Joy Engineering Motorcycle Camshaft Specialist
Tel 01279 730 682
The workshop
Ryes lane
Hatfield Heath
Bishops Stortford
CM22 7BS
I think the post code is correct, but you'd be better to ring him first
He charged me £90 all in and I supplied the cam to be reworked. I have a few spare.
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I think the post code is correct, but you'd be better to ring him first
He charged me £90 all in and I supplied the cam to be reworked. I have a few spare.
I have never had a problem to get a cam from Megacycle. Though a lot of suppliers will shy away with sending stuff into Europe.
Main advantge with Megacycle is you are buying a new camshaft and not some reworked one on exchange. I have used a couple in TT500 engines and they work well.
If cams are built up then ground back often the cam profile is compromised.
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Not with Phil Joy they're not. The problem is the valve springs. The only USA one's I've had repeatedly sacked at around 6000 miles. Fine for racing but useless on the road
When you send a cam to Phil Joy he does the work, not some faceless employee of dubious provenance.
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Might very well that way with TT500 cams but if you want Megacycle to hook you up with a DR400 cam you have to send them your old one, atleast according to their pricelist. So for me I guess it would be much easier to get one from Phil Joy, living in Sweden as I am.
Thought any about my suggestion Cloggman ;) ? You should check out the springs in Megacycles list as well, might be what you´re looking for...
JJ
and remember: Full throttle!
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I'm ok for springs
I use old Protec Keepers, chuck away the springs and put in ones from a 70's ford crossflow head. Thing is I've got two sets of keepers but I haven't got a spare set for anyone else. The cam Phil does is identical in profile to an XT one, it's got a bit more lift and more duration, but it's nothing extreme. The standard springs don't bind, they are just not quite strong enough to prevent valve bounce It makes more power in the midrange. With the standard cam there's a slight dip in the midrange. That's not noticeable till you change the cam. There's a mile long steep hill near here, over the Radnor Forest. With the standard cam I'd have to downshift but with the Joy cam it would gain speed all the way up. I've changed lots of things but that was back to back with just a cam change
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Most of my power was gained by drilling holes in air box ( as per Clymer specs ) larger carb and jetting properly along with right sprocket combo .
Remember these old beasts develop most of thier power in low to mid rpm range .....so by short shifting and using the torque you will end up using all the gears rather than 2 maybe 3 .
I had a re-ground cam in mine for 6 months, and it would rev it's head off. But found it came at a cost ( mid range ) so have settle for a very mild cam that does not need revs .
Shttp://www.tighecams.com.au/prings are Std but shimmed to be correct.
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Yeh I think the sort of high end power for road racing is not what's needed for scrambling. I'm very happy with my motor. I use a smaller SP370 carb and I opened up the airbox intake. On the DR400 there is an inside out filter so if you keep the airbox the most you can do is take the lid off completely. The Clymer manual I have mostly concerns itself with the previous model. From experience I found a lot of it's tuning tips rather generalised and not model specific. As standard all the varients are incredibly bunged up and most improvement comes from derestricting the intake and exhaust and rejetting to suit.
That said I've just got a pair of KLXs and the carb for that aneamic 250 is the same size and general model [VM32SS], so perhaps I should try the 33mm DR carb with the smaller carb's needle/needle jet combo.
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Interesting old thread, cams is interesting
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Yeah... takes me back. I had an SP370 back in the day. Hi-comp piston, Peter Allen pipe, Megacycle cam, S&W valve springs, ported head, 36mm Mikuni and stock but opened up airbox. Cost me a bunch of dollars and was about as fast as a stock TT500. I sold it and bought a Yamaha...
(http://www.ozvmx.com/images/forum/sp370-1.jpg)
(http://www.ozvmx.com/images/forum/sp370-2.jpg)
(http://www.ozvmx.com/images/forum/sp370-3.jpg)