OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Competition => Topic started by: Iain Cameron on August 19, 2019, 08:02:28 pm
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Any one put their hand up for the Vintage Classic Nats ?
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^^^^ What he said :-)
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There was a whisper in the showers at Harrisville that "maybe" S.A...? Crystal Brook..?
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Whispers in the showers in Qld????? That's gotta be dangerous.
Anyway, rode at Crystal Brook last weekend, track was superb, looks a postcard. Asked around & don't think its going to be held there. Either that or they were keeping it a secret & didn't want anyone to know
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Would it be time for WA to have a go? l'm happy if it comes back to Vic again ;-)
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John.. If there was a greater take up from riders from the "eastern states" to travel to WA ..we might consider.. but historically.. very few travel to WA
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Do few travel to Qld? There are plenty of riders already there :-) Many WA riders? Only fair that they get a 'lower cost' round?
Maybe an Alice Springs round is central? ;-)
I think the more fair idea is that all interstate riders pay 50% lower entries, that way the help is shared around, and might get more starters from interstate ........ and doesn't become a 'state championship round'?
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The costs of entry are not a factor for me.
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Even though we are from Melbourne . Would not mind travelling to NSW or Canberra.
It about time they ran a VMX Event.
With the large Number of Competitors, Clubs, Tracks and the Large Resources of MA NSW.
Surely they could run a good event.
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Curious as to which NSW tracks would work for the early era bikes?
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NSW has not run the Nats for ages. I'm not sure if any clubs have a interest in running it in NSW? Maybe Dargle could be a venue?
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How about the Heaven club ? I tried to get the club to put their hand up in the early 2000's but no interest . One would think the largest VMX club in NSW would be able to manage it .
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I have no idea where the next Nationals will be but think NSW would be a great outcome if it could be arranged. there are a bunch of tracks that could be used but its the enthusiasm of those wanting to arrange the event that will dictate the success or not.
I have always looked at Grafton MX Track and the facility there to run an event and wonder if there are places like this that are a little left field of what we expect that could offer a venue to run the event. Agree that Dargle would be an outstanding event but not sure about who or how it would be organised - Its my hope that racing at a National level is not working toward extinction.
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While there has been some speculation on when & where the 2020 Classic nationals may be held, to date there have not been any expressions of interest submitted to MA (in fact, none for any of the CMX title events, CMX, CDT, PCMX, PCDT). MA are working on canvasing clubs in an effort to garner some interest, however in the meantime all you guys out there, please do the same. Explore the opportunity for your club to host any of premier events in the CMX calendar for 2020. For anyone out there dabbling with the thought who may be finding it a tad daunting, please don't hesitate to contact myself or any of the clubs who've previously hosted the event to draw on past experience (I can put you in touch). There have been some subtle (sensible) amendments to the 2020 MoMS (to be released soon) which will only enhance the opportunity for clubs to host a successful event. Get on it.
Cheers,
K
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The Brisbane MCC has run eight successful Nationals ( including Post Classic and Dirt Track) and would be happy to assist any club who asks.
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It would be interesting to know how much of the following factors influence the clubs (and riders) in the decision to host (enter) a Nationals.
1 Cost- Permit $1500 (discounted rate), rider levy $27.50 per rider, high level of medical service $4000 approx., higher expectation of standard of trophies and facilities.
2 Convenience and ease of entering process from both organiser and entrant perspective. I have found, an experience shared by some others, that Ridernet is considered not user friendly and there is opinion that it costs entries. Hard to quantify but seems to be a factor. I ramrodded the 2019 CMX Nats and frankly would not have taken it on if I'd been forced to use Ridernet. We used Nominate and postal entries and had no issues. Our Race Sec used Ridernet for the Qld Titles and spent a lot of her time trying to help people navigate Ridernet
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Multiple entrant views. 2/3 riders- 6/9 classes
Cost of entry. Don’t care
Trophy standard. Care even less
Electronic entries. Won’t do it.
Facilities. Don’t care. Self sufficient.
I only enter once Supp Regs are published, print them off and fill them in. Direct deposit funds with sponsorship and parking fees to host club bank account. Print remittance and mail with filled out entry forms to host clubs contact.
We don’t enter events that insist on electronic entries
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Electronic entries has stopped me in the past.
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From this riders point of view entry costs, trophies and online forms are not a big consideration. Travel time is a bit and track suitability to bike era more so but not a breaker.
From an organising club's position the issue I hear discussed most is "how high is the financial risk to members if it flops?". Track suitability and manpower organisational burden is also there as a worry.
The financial risk aspect could probably be covered with event insurance - provided by MA -as part of their contribution. My .02c
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The Majority of us will never get a trophy so to me that's not an issue . I prefer posting entries but im comp literate enough to muddle through . Distance is the killer for me and the main reason when and where I ride . Two drawbacks to it for me Self employed in a one man job and that little strip of water that's called Bass Straight . ( A Cpl with a ute using a cabin in season return is approx $1000. ) then add fuel to Qld or WA and time off ( while my competitors take away my clients ) I know the WA crowd drives across the country each time and I admire them their dedication but I cant take the time off . The states I can do are VIC , NSW and SA . Apart from that Tasmania is a great place but utterly shit for VMX . And flat track whats that ?
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Costs are not a real issue for me.
Finding the time is more of issue, if I need a lot of time off work I have to balance it against my other interests.
Rider net sucks but dosent stop me. Dont care about trophies. A great classic track dose make a difference for me , but they are all disapearing. Camping at the track with good catering helps.
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Hello All.. any chance of a place like the complex at Nerong NSW being used for a Nats..? Multiple tracks.. facilities already on site.. shops showers toilets etc..multiple tracks can cater for many age groups of bikes.. track maintenance on site..? has a place like this been considered..?
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Also needs an organising club with a big list of personnel and gear whose members are willing to put up the 20K or so.
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Rest assured we (MA) are working on sorting all the CMX National title events (CMX/DT, PCMX/PCDT), however these are complex dealings. Details to follow in due course.
K
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Here’s hoping youse dump the All Powers races in Pre 75 and Evo and go back to 125/250/500 classes
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If this is the pinacle event for this category of racing why would M/A not cut costs to support? 20K is alot for a small club to find
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20k is possibly a stretch - there are costs, medical, MA fees, trophy costs etc all / or most anyway of which become a manageable choice for the promoter. In my experience, running the event has been a profitable venture for the club - as it should be.
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Watch this space..........
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Watch this space..........
Watching.
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Watching
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The Heaven VMX Club of NSW is pleased to annouce the club has taken on the challenge to run the 2020 Australian National 'Classic' Motocross Championships
Our club has a rich history in these older eras and the timing is right for the club to bring this prestigious event to NSW.
Dates: July 10, 11 & 12, 2020
Venue: Nowra Motoplex, NSW
Specially Prepped to be Classic Motocross friendly!
Huge camping area overlooking the track
Close to the town of Nowra
(The Nowra Motoplex is under new management this year and the new management are 'friends of the sport'. The Nowra circuit will be completely re-vamped specifically for this meeting with jumps rounded off or bypassed. The dirt is sandly and loamy and when it gets wet, gets better!)
More info to come, in the mean time book that time off for this very exciting event!
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One overseas entry already .
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One overseas entry already .
From Tassie. :-)
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Absolutely fantastic to see Kenneth & the Heaven club put their hands up to host the 2020 Classic MX titles & no doubt the club will present a stellar track to suit all machinery from pre 1960 through to Evolution classes. The pre 1978 class has had some sensible changes for 2020 (see chapter 11 in the MoMS) with the suspension restrictions adjusted (no longer will you have to restrict a standard 1977 model to comply), making it simpler for anyone wanting to race this iconic class. This event will also see Heaven MX club crown the inaugural (first ever), NATIONAL AUSTRALIAN CHAMPION in the Evolution 4 stoke class, which is new for 2020 & beyond. There are other exciting things in the mix which will only enhance the event so make a note of the date & set it aside. Tell your mates, your mates mates (don't for get to tell your wife) & get on it to be a part of Classic Motocross history in the making.
Cheers,
K
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11.14.4.2 about time . thank you to whom ever finally made the decision .
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Fantastic news about Nowra, holidays booked, we'll be there!
Also good news to hear that common sense has finally prevailed regarding the 9" rule in Pre 78 too. Pity about the time and money we all spent putting spacers in our 77 YZ-D models to restrict the travel....I certainly never noticed any difference!
Personally I think that modified suspension ( long travel) Pre 75 models should also be allowed in Pre 78, ( and YZ360B's should also be there), but that's just my opinion.
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Personally I think that modified suspension ( long travel) Pre 75 models should also be allowed in Pre 78.
Agreed.
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Great news about pre 78 suspension rule change to allow a standard pre 78 bike to compete without spacers to reduce the suspension travel.
Would be good if the pre 75 rules were the same so pre 75 bikes could be run as they were factory made without having to fit spacers
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Exactly. They’ve set a precedent now so if I had a Pre 75 I’d be demanding it.
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There is a process for such things which is much more productive than discussion on social media. Go to MA website, download the form & get them in. Rule change submissions will be reviewed in March.
K
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Would be good if the pre 75 rules were the same so pre 75 bikes could be run as they were factory made without having to fit spacers
What Pre 75 models came with too much travel?
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Maico 74.5 ?
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Would be good if the pre 75 rules were the same so pre 75 bikes could be run as they were factory made without having to fit spacers
What Pre 75 models came with too much travel?
the Maico 74.5 and the YZB Yamaha
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KTM/Penton 74.5 250 & 400
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These travel under the radar.
Pre75 bike with probably the most rear wheel travel are the Joe Maxwell 1974 CCM copies.
According to percom with Joe they are built with a minimum of 6.5" at the rear and according to anecdote and observation some have well over that.
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Finally, some commonsense on the suspension travel limit rules for the pre ‘78 class bikes . Having to pull apart my standard ‘77 model forks , to fit travel limiting spacers , was one of the reasons that I just didn’t bother with entering this class . Now I have one less excuse, so I might have to try and turn up .
On the subject of travel limits for pre ‘75 bikes , I can understand the need for this for bikes with more than 4 inches rear travel and it is easy enough to fit spacers under the bump stop rubbers of the rear shock/s . I have ‘74.5 model Maicos and they have enough of an advantage over other bikes in the class , without having another 2.5 inches of rear wheel travel as well . To my knowledge , there wasn’t any ‘74 model bikes that came out with more than ‘7 inches of fork travel, so having to pull forks apart to limit travel shouldn’t be an issue with these bikes .
Some pre ‘75 bikes seem to slip under the radar , with more than 4” rear travel , like the ‘74 Huskys . A while back , I borrowed a ‘74 WR 400 Husky with a Mag swingarm and measured the rear travel at over 6 “ .
Also , the Evo 4 stroke class is a great idea . I have ‘84 Husky 510s and an ‘82 Can Am Sonic that would go well in this class . I also have friends with HL 500s and C&J Hondas , that would also be good to see running around in this class .
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I thought talking about rules on this forum was frowned on but 10.5 inch front and rear and a free hand to modify shock mount for pre78 in my opinion is a mistake as it will turn the class into a hot rod class for some. The guys with 1975 models and a lot of 76 models with less than 8 inch travel will probably leave their bikes at home as they will be so out classed by the 10.5 inch bikes. Time will tell I guess but I would think we will loose more bikes from the class than is picked up.
Funny how the pre75 limits get talked about every now and then, it at the time didn't make much sense as most of the 74 model bike had factory fitted 4 inch travel shocks and the CR Honda's were advertised as having 4.2 inch travel shocks. With 4 inch shocks the wheel travel was close to 5 inch on most but the 4 inch wheel travel rule stuck but was only ever really checked at titles on 74 Maico's or YZB's.
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This is the statement put to the decision makers about the pre 78 rule change (from MA website), seems sensible and congrats the the MA MX people for making the decision:
"With many pre 1978 model motorcycles delivered from new in 1977 with
both front & rear wheel travel exceeding the current 229mm (9 inches), it
seems silly to be asked to de-engineer a motorcycle from standard OEM
specifications, as delivered in 1977, to meet the 229mm (9inch) travel
restrictions for the pre 1978 competition class. Relaxing the travel
restrictions to OEM specifications will not only reflect the true era of
motorcycles from the period but also encourage more potential
competitors to the class. It is currently a deterrent for new competitors to
enter the class having to de-engineer their machines from OEM
specifications."
Now, someone with a better knowledge of pre 75 bikes than me please put the same logic to MA for the pre 75 class.
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This is the statement put to the decision makers about the pre 78 rule change (from MA website), seems sensible and congrats the the MA MX people for making the decision:
"With many pre 1978 model motorcycles delivered from new in 1977 with
both front & rear wheel travel exceeding the current 229mm (9 inches), it
seems silly to be asked to de-engineer a motorcycle from standard OEM
specifications, as delivered in 1977, to meet the 229mm (9inch) travel
restrictions for the pre 1978 competition class. Relaxing the travel
restrictions to OEM specifications will not only reflect the true era of
motorcycles from the period but also encourage more potential
competitors to the class. It is currently a deterrent for new competitors to
enter the class having to de-engineer their machines from OEM
specifications."
Now, someone with a better knowledge of pre 75 bikes than me please put the same logic to MA for the pre 75 class.
That Pre78 submission was made by Carl Oberhauser who is probably the biggest and most enthusiastic social media, AKA Facebook, VMX proponent in the country. No doubt that Facebook is the village square now, like it or not. All the Clubs promote themselves using it and so do a large number of VMX service businesses as well as the governing organisations.
For what it's worth I'd have a lot of reservations seeing the suspension travel rules changed for Pre75. Compared to the 3 years of Pre 78 eligibility 5 years are covered by the earlier class and within it are a far greater number of makes and models likely to be competitive. Change it and you could see the long travel rear 1974/74.5 models completely dominate.
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Hi, Bugger, my 1977 Honda CR125 is F****d then , a massive 7 inch travel Front and rear aint going to be any good in that class , or, do I stick 1977 Husqvarna forks and swing arm in it . maybe they should just call it the "1977" class .
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Don’t panic yet Michael.
In 2014 at Echo Valley Nats a 1977 RM 125 B won the Evo class.
This year a 1977 RM 125 B won the Evo 16-29 class
Also this year a 1973 YZ 250 A won the Pre 75 All Powers title against plenty of open class
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There seems to be some undue reservation about the lifting of the 9" suspension limit to 10.5" in the pre 1978 class. I can't see anyone who has already limited (sorted) their bikes to 9" taking them back & the option to increase 7" (or less) travel bikes to the meet the 9" class limit (now 10.5") has always been there. The new limit simply reflects what some makes came with off the showroom floor & riders can now ride their bikes as they were purchased in 1977 without having to de-engineer them, making it easier to enter the class. The removal of the standard shock mount position rule now allows bikes with layed forward suspension (1975 Honda's for example) into the class where beforehand they were relegated to the Evolution class, so even more bikes eligible for the class. Anyone worried about their bike not having enough suspension travel is letting their mind defeat them in the first instance. A low bike goes around corners better than a tall bike & as the saying goes " jumps for show, corners for dough". Any of the 1975, 1976 & 1977 models are all very competitive in the class & all have pro's & con's, bring them out & join in the fun.
K
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Agreed BigK, a practical rule improvement that makes it a bit easier to roll out the old bike.
This year's pre 78 turn out at Viper has been impressive, and being able to ride EVO and be reasonably up with the pack makes for a few more fun rides.
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The 2019 VIPER Pre78 title was probably taken out by the oldest and shortest bike in the field- a 75 KX big bore with what looks like 7/7 or so.
It's possibly instructive to note that of the three VMX clubs running Pre78 in Victoria, the Classic Scramble Club, which races only natural terrain tracks, consistently had the biggest fields. The Winchelsea round, held on an undulating paddock attracted 23 riders- some earlier bikes included- and was won by a short travel TT500.
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There seems to be some undue reservation about the lifting of the 9" suspension limit to 10.5" in the pre 1978 class. I can't see anyone who has already limited (sorted) their bikes to 9" taking them back & the option to increase 7" (or less) travel bikes to the meet the 9" class limit (now 10.5") has always been there. The new limit simply reflects what some makes came with off the showroom floor & riders can now ride their bikes as they were purchased in 1977 without having to de-engineer them, making it easier to enter the class. The removal of the standard shock mount position rule now allows bikes with layed forward suspension (1975 Honda's for example) into the class where beforehand they were relegated to the Evolution class, so even more bikes eligible for the class. Anyone worried about their bike not having enough suspension travel is letting their mind defeat them in the first instance. A low bike goes around corners better than a tall bike & as the saying goes " jumps for show, corners for dough". Any of the 1975, 1976 & 1977 models are all very competitive in the class & all have pro's & con's, bring them out & join in the fun.
K
So I take it a scrutineer can easily pick a 1978 Suzuki C fork and shocks fitted to a 75-77 model despite it having 10.5” of suspension travel?
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I think some forget the reason for suspension travel rules in the first place.
Which was to give a parity or level playing field for Pre 75 Comptition.
Bikes like the Yamaha YZB and & 74 1/2 Maico GP have a clear advantage over a lot of other bikes.
I know from testing without spacers with the KONI GP,s or Custom built ICOM socks we use on the MAICO GP that our riders lap times are over 1/2 second per lap faster. This with out changing the dampering or changing the settings on the Forks. And with the extra travel its easer to ride.
This will make a well set up MAICO GP even more of a avantage.
As far as pre 78 goes our AW400 we will be able to use Remote Koni,s or OHLINS. No Problem.
But may be expensive for others that need to buy new socks and modify the forks.
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I’m not convinced the bikes you mention will have a advantage.
I’ve seen a 1973 YZ 250 with 7/4 travel dominate every race its entered for the past 6/7 years with lap times up to 20 seconds a lap better than anything in its class. When you gain 1/2 second off these times it doesn’t really matter
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Spelling error. Should be IKON shocks. Had them made up in Albury.
Good people to deal with. They look like the old 78 series Koni,s but have bigger diameter shafts and other updated
internals.
They work well on our MAICO 74 250 GP.
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This is good news. No need to modify first gen KYB Proline forks (later ones still need 1/4" restriction) & some Simons forks and many aftermarket internal kits eg Fox, Al Baker may be able to be used without mods (still have to check they meet 10.5" though)
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Ted, no point making statements about kids riding old Rm's or YZ's , if you were riding them would they place anywhere, NO.
Average punters will be disadvantaged with the new rules.
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I take it you are talking about Pre 78 as the Pre 75 rules haven’t changed.
Why will, as you term it “ average punter “ be disadvantaged because the suspension level has been lifted 1 1/2” ?
We have 2 Pre 78 bikes that will remain 9” and won’t feel disadvantaged at all.
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I will be there. Interesting rule change for pre 78 good to see common sense win over. I can now put my CR husky back to standard and get the balance right, I will keep my KTM as it is with 10"
BigK did you help get this rule change in?
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My 2c opinion re the pre '75 class... go for the simplest option: As a starting point anything that is as per the original manufacturer spec is legal. That way all unmodified bikes are legal, nothing for the happy vintage racer to do in order to compete.
If there is concern about competition across brands perhaps allow competitors so inclined to modify their machine to match a nominated spec. For example a '73 maico (or whatever) could be altered to '74 specs (or whatever).
Those two basic ideas allow both easy access to the class and room for the tinkerers to tinker. You know, same as it was back in the day. :-)
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Great now I can legally fit these and put the old girl back to standard.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2692923980797255&set=pob.100002390377063&type=3&theater
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It would appear there is no camping at the track, I like the camping stuff and the comradery that it provides , but I am also OK with soft warm bed, Is there a local that rider refresh themselves?
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I believe there is camping available free of charge but will confirm.
K
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If you actually read the promotion blurb, it states huge camping area. I have confirmed that camping is free of charge.
K
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It would appear there is no camping at the track, I like the camping stuff and the comradery that it provides , but I am also OK with soft warm bed, Is there a local that rider refresh themselves?
Been talking to Christian. He’s keen for this
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If you actually read the promotion blurb, it states huge camping area. I have confirmed that camping is free of charge.
K
That's correct Mick. There is a huge flat camping area that runs down the whole length of the track overlooking it and you can see 70-80% of the action. There is hot showers and the canteen the track runs is the best on the NSW VMX circuit. This facility is a National Standard facility. A few years back they ran a round of the Modern Nationals with all the semis etc.
The operator of the faciility is super excited we chose his venue for this and is creating a track layout specifically for this event that will have fast flowing corners, and VMX friendly obstacles. The Heaven VMX members are pumped and all of a sudden the Post Classic riders are scrounging to find EVO bikes to add to their stables.
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Yeah well this event has been postponed.
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Yeah well this event has been postponed.
Any details Ted?
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Only official confirmation from Ken Swan or Heaven has any validity. I understand Heaven had a meeting last night so we can expect a notification shortly.
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So Michael Hughes writings carry no validity?
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Yeah well this event has been postponed.
Any details Ted?
Only what Mick Hughes put on FB.
Not on this date, maybe later in year
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Only what Mick Hughes put on FB.
Not on this date, maybe later in year
Cheers Ted, I've been staying off facetoilet. My tinfoil hats last three times as long now.
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Yes Ted, as I said on FB, the event has been postponed. We (CMX commission) are working with the club towards a date later in the year & as soon as it is decided a notification will be forthcoming. What we should be asking is who & how many are likely to support the event given the uncertain times we are in?
Cheers,
K
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What Mick said. In the final analyses only the host club can decide if they are willing to put in the work and take the financial risk. The MX Commission is helping where it can and obviously we all hope it goes ahead and gives us something to look forward to.
I think we'll know by Monday but as said it's down to Heaven VMX.
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I will try and go regardless.
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Yes Ted, as I said on FB, the event has been postponed. We (CMX commission) are working with the club towards a date later in the year & as soon as it is decided a notification will be forthcoming. What we should be asking is who & how many are likely to support the event given the uncertain times we are in?
Cheers,
K
Yes in. 2 riders 6 classes
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That's great
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I'm still quite keen but reality might not care. There's so much uncertainty about so many things I wouldn't like to bet on my chances of getting there from WA.
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Six weeks on from this discussion and no news if it’s on or not.
Mick Hughes, can you confirm if any progress has been made?
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The delay is frustrating to say the least however we are doing our utmost best to make this happen at the proposed venue, unfortunately CV-19 has complicated things no end. We hope to have an answer in the next week, sit tight.
K
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It is with great disappointment we announce that for 2020, the Heaven VMX Club will not be running the 2020 Australian National Classic Motocross Nationals. To say the COVID-19 pandemic has brought chaos to our lives is an understatement, and unfortunately this event for this year is a casualty of the virus. This is a prestigious event, a true National event, and deserves to be conducted as one.
With the recent news and the uncertainty that brings for our Victorian family members, delays from border shutdowns meaning we have missed the window for our Western Australian family members to be able to organize the trip for this year, and the potential travel difficulties members of all other states might face, we feel the event would not be a true National, and in these extreme circumstances running it would not do the event justice.
This was a very difficult decision for us to make, and behind the scenes the Heaven VMX committee and the MA Classic Motocross commission have been working feverishly looking at every possible alternative to try to save the Nationals for this year, but in the end we feel the uncertainty of current climate was too great, and when the Nationals go ahead, the event must be given every chance of success with all racers from around the country given the opportunity to attend. Hopefully by 2021 we will be through the worst of these tough times.
A special thanks goes to Mick Hughes and Colin Metcher for the huge amount of time and effort they have put in for us. These gentlemen unselfishly do a vast amount of volunteer work on behalf of our sport that is very much appreciated by us and it is such a shame that for this event that time has been wasted
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Not really wasted, onward and upward for 2001. Same host club, same venue, add Evolution 4 str as a championship class and it's all go.
Follow the next weekend with Post Classic and ride our Evo Bikes in Pre85 and yippee !!
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Not really wasted, onward and upward for 2001. Same host club, same venue, add Evolution 4 str as a championship class and it's all go.
Follow the next weekend with Post Classic and ride our Evo Bikes in Pre85 and yippee !!
Col’s having a “ back to the future “ moment.
Wrong year ????????
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I could try and bulls--- that I was testing you but simple truth is I'm wishing I was 62 again
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???? Unfortunately 62 ain’t all it’s cracked up to be either. haha