OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vinduro => Topic started by: GMC on July 03, 2017, 10:24:36 pm
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Open letter to VERi members
Harrow is looming up quickly and so too is our Annual General Meeting and no doubt the Pre 90 debate will once again surface.
I have heard all manner of reasons as to why or why not we should or shouldn’t have Pre 90.
Reasons for often mention bringing in more members, easier bikes to ride, etc.
Reasons against often mention they will cut the track up more, they might go too fast, they’re too much like a modern etc.
But I believe the real reason we should bring in Pre 90 is that the main aim of our club is to celebrate old bikes and old times from days long gone.
People choose the models they own/ride for various reasons;
Some choose the model they always wanted
Some choose the model they used to own
Some like exotic models
Some like low maintenance type models
And while some will just choose the cheapest bike available at the time I believe for the most part people choose a brand/model because it means something to them
I was racing Enduro’s in the late 80’s while I was in my late 20’s so anyone riding in the late 80’s while in their teens would now be in their late 40’s, not exactly your ‘young gun’ that is going to shred their way around the loop.
Pre 90 models aren’t exactly your modern bike either, while it’s true that some 89 models did reach a technological point where they didn’t change for quite a few years but this era also includes models like the last of the Maico’s, a now defunct brand, the last of the Swedish built Husqvarna, the last of the aircooled KDX etc
Even the more advanced pre 90 models don’t have any real place in a modern event and without a pre 90 Vinduro class are just lost souls.
True a top rider can go quite fast on one but no one would seriously race one in a serious modern event and hope to do well all day long. And they would probably go just as fast on an 84 model
What will it change, not a lot I believe. There will be a greater diversity of models but not everyone will suddenly go out and buy an 89 model, just like not everybody has bought an 84 model as people are attached to the model that means something to them.
It will bring in a few more members that just want to enjoy some old school fun, most likely on trailbikes like XR’s & TT’s but also some cool old KTM’s and the like.
Pre 90 is mostly accepted everywhere else in the vintage world, CD, Bonanza, National titles etc. I believe it’s time we accepted it too.
Vote for what you believe in but please think it through.
Geoff Morris #30
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Two other options that could be considered:
1. Adopt the same format as VTR in NSW.
2. Adopt the FIM rules
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If it is going to be pre'90 it must be true pre'90, not the modified pre'90 class rules as in some other states, ie: pre'90 but no rear disc brakes or inverted forks. What is the point of a class with these type of caveats? Those rules still leave some really nice vinduro bikes out in the cold without undergoing serious (relatively expensive) modifications, some as early as 1987. If it's to come in keep it simple, pre'90, up to & including 1989 models. Just my two cents worth.
K
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im with K, pre 90 as per pre 85 was, inclusive of all models regardless of design.
its time as there are a heap of punters with later model 85 - 88 a/c cooled dx's that would love to ride the vinduro's
it will bring in a small increase in numbers and keep the coffers at a respectable level.
id vote yes but im not a VERI member :(
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I agree with both GMC and Big K
Lets not forget that 30 years old now is 1987 bikes still legal as red plate but cant be used on a Veri event ?
Bruce #168
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id vote yes but im not a VERI member :(
$50 and you're in 8)
Lets not forget that 30 years old now is 1987 bikes still legal as red plate but cant be used on a Veri event ?
Bruce #168
Perhaps a rolling 30 year age in line with red plate eligibility might be an option if the club needs to move from pre '85.
Geoff #063
Edit: Club permits are for vehicles over 25 years old, not 30.
(•Classic and Historic vehicles - manufactured after 31 December 1930, but more than 25 years before the date of the application for a club permit)
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/limited-use-permits/club-permit-scheme/get-a-club-permit
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... keep it simple ...
Both the VTR and FIM rules are designed to keep it simple for the Event Organisers and minimise hassle.
That is why they don't just pick an arbitrary date and then have all the issues and arguments that have been seen in the past.
VTR rules are the simplest. FIM is pre-88 with technology exclusions.
Both allow 1987 bikes like the TT350.
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The RED PLATE alignment would be good -
1st - it simplifies the rego and if I understand the "rules" gives brilliant insurance so long as it's not a "race". (but someone may correct me on that)
2nd - it permanently "fixes" the eligibility question.
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red plate for a lot of guys is out of the question and that's why VERI accept rec reg and UVP in conjunction with VICROADS so using red plate eligibility is out.
The impact of technology (upside down forks etc) is completely irrelevant as none of these events are a race. its blokes riding their old bikes. as the time passes, the old bike age limit should rise as a lot of pre 75 riders are now getting past riding so their numbers can drop off unless family hand me downs occur. additionally a lot of pre 90 owners are out of competing and just want a ride to get the old girl out for a spin. we should cater for that. seems really simple to me and VERI should put up a resolution to accept pre 90 bikes at the meeting.
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Yes I was a member until the 30th of last month will renew at Harrow ...
This is Just for you to Think about ..Only ...
# To Ride the Latest Bike you can ..
OR
# To Preserve Era of Bikes and to Be apart of a Time as a Rider and remember that Time ...
Veri Need to ask its Members what Does Veri Stand for.... What does Veri want to Do ....as a Club ..and Stick to it or Not ...
and to just Copy what other Clubs are Doing is Not a Answer ...
Other Club may have writing in to its Rules to stick to something because they wants too ...
And Yes I will ostane from the Vote at the AGM on this as I have a Conflict of Interest
like I have Befor
And I hope this Dose Not turn to Shit as its Dose On the MX side of this Forum ....I think the Old Enduro Blokes are Different ..
Dennis M Veri Member 233
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I don't think it will "turn to poo" as there is a vote, everyone votes, the results are adhered to. I don't think a busload of pre 90 agitators will show up.. ;D they wouldn't make it past the pub....
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On the MX side of thinks. You may of heard it before, we at Classic MXWA run up to Pre 95. No one seems to care, they just want a ride. Groups are Pre75 - Pre80 - Pre85 & Pre95 we also have vets on modern bikes and jnrs on moderns as long as dad is a riding member. Membership has increased as a result. We encourage VMXWA (pre75) members to come ride also, no one whines that the track is too rough to ride, they actually love the lay out.
So I can ride my 74 yz in pre75 and my 76 RM in pre80, sometimes I even sneek into Pre85 to give them the shits haha, track don't get that chopped up and if it does I just ride the kerbs lol
After all, were all there for the same reason - to have fun riding our bikes.
Just my 2 cent worth
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Lots of intelligent discussion here (as usual) regarding this issue.
I'm not a VERi member, so I have no vote.
I ride a '79 PE 250. I will always ride a '79 PE 250. I have no intention of 'up-grading' my ride, and I don't mind the concept of mixing it with 'modern' bikes. They may (or may not) be faster than me, but I'm not racing, so who cares?
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but I'm not racing, so who cares?
that's it in a nutshell, well put Serge
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... but I'm not racing, so who cares?
The popularity of VTR events is bringing so many people into Vinduro that it is quite likely that there will be he numbers to support some competitive events.
It would be good if you only needed the one bike to do both VTR and competitive events.
With the success of Australia's ISDE Teams over the years it is likely that Australia will host the ISDE in the future.
They currently run FIM Classic classes up to Classic 1982 and EVO class up to 1987.
Anyone wishing to enter the ISDE would be advised to set their bikes up to the FIM specifications.
Both my Yamaha IT125G and IT175F are setup to conform with FIM Classic 1982 specifications.
I will be building my IT200 to FIM EVO Class 1987 specifications.
FIM considers that Pre-88 is the best cutoff date for Vinduro. Do we want Vinduro or just old bikes?
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To quote Peter Drakeford the idea of VERI is for people to get there Old bikes out of the
Shed and enjoy a day Riding them again.
At the moment we are getting an average of 60 to 80 riders at an event which is a good
number . So its not as if we need to Boost the size of the Fields.
You have to take into account that most of our events we are Privelaged to be able to use
Public Land and Roads with a Few restrictions on the use of it ie ( numbers on the trail at a
Time) so lets not Shoot ourselves in the foot Like enduro's did in the 90s and be banned
from the forest because of the damage caused by too many bikes on the trails at a time.
Lets keep it ( KISS )
The Stig
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As someone on the sidelines (of Vinduro) if the FIM have rules why not adopt them.
However if you are worried about whether or not it being competitive going to Pre 90 is simple and then maybe move to Pre 95 or 2000 at some stage later.
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Vinduro is non competitive so FIM rules are probably over the top. it is about managing numbers I agree so that may be an influence on a pre 90 decision but I cant see a 30 - 50 % increase from pre 90 inclusion and as per the VTR crew, its easy to put a top number on entries if you have a sensitive area.
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If you increase demand surely that makes people enter earlier. Is that such a bad thing.
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Take one look at what the later classes have bought to VIPER in Vic.
Have a look at the carry-ons of that club on Facebook.
To me, later than Pre 85 brings a certain clique. It's a whole lot of 'factory' look and who's got the biggest toy hauler.
And even though it's 'non-competitive', see how long it takes for the aggressive "I'll show you old boys how it's done" mind-set take over.
A resounding NO from me.????
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Was at the meeting last year when they spoke about it and I am pretty shore they had the same debate the year before.
Most of the people where against it and I think I agree there is plenty of older bikes around to fill out the grid.
They are fantastic events VERI runs so unless the numbers dramatically drop keep it the same.
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Disclosure:
I'm not a Veri member.
I own Pre90 motorcycles as well as a pre 85 motorcycle.
I don't own a Toy Hauler yet, but I'm looking to get one real soon. (It'll be a f&^king big one.)
Content:
VERI rides are not competitive, they're just trail rides.
No sheep stations involved.
Old Enduro or Trail riders aren't MX riders, and we all know 'that' guy is faster because well, 'that' guy is faster than me, no matter what he rides.
I have participated in Conondale Vinduro Sprint since it started, and can report NO eligibility/whinging/whining BS to be seen anywhere at the (competitive) event.
But hey, look at dot point one.
Some / Most / All VERI rides require some form of rego......UVP or Historic rego.
Both VIC and now NSW has the 'Log Book' system for rego.
NSW is 30 years old gets you in, VIC is now 30 yrs? (not 25 yrs anymore?)
QLD'ers are nowhere, I mean are 30 yrs and no log book.
UVP's are available for any roadworthy bike.
Do people ride old bikes in SA?
FIM have rules for old bikes - cool.
MA as well - even cooler, like frozen.
I guess, clubs are started by a small group of hard working people that have the same ideas about what a bike is, what logo to have, etcetcetc
They work hard, they control the club.
Does the Club ever grow past those initial ideas? Should a club evolve?
We've seen some pretty good examples of splits / rifts / politics in clubs north of Victoria. Maybe some in Vic as well?
To me they all have one common theme, someone doesn't like a new idea from another member in the club, about what 'the' club should be.....then it starts......
So, I'm in favour of the delegated authority system - either choose the governing body of the sports idea on what an old bike is or choose the governments.
It takes all the BS out of the equation.
(I look at pre-95 bikes in QLD and don't believe they're vintage, but except the umpires decision, and it doesn't seem to lessen my riding pleasure in any way.)
Another idea would to limit eligibility to left hand kickers only with special dispensation for right hand kickers if they kick the wrong way, ie forward.
You would probably get a couple of more QLDers at Harrow for the State challenge if you were pre 90.
I'd go back in a heart beat if you'd move it closer.
Cheers
I hope I haven't offended anyone.
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This debate has come up every year at the VERi AGM, love it or hate it the outcome gives the committee clear guidance to run with.
I also bought this up at a pre VERi event many years back that we should run Pre 88 due to the 85-87 models that I consider are still old school bikes. It seemed that no one at the time could comprehend a cut off date that didn’t end in a zero or a five. Maybe I was ahead of my time????
What does VERi stand for? As one of the guys that helped start the club I consider we are about using old enduro/trail bikes on the trails like we used to. The debate is about what is considered to be an old bike.
As I said already I don’t believe there will be a massive increase in members or members turning to later bikes, it’s more about having old guys riding models that they associate with. Also as new members come in there is always others dropping out for all sorts of various reasons, there is already a lot of members that haven’t been back for a while.
We have a small ‘footprint’ and I don’t believe 85-89 models will change that.If we start getting 400 riders at events then it might be different.
I don’t think there will be any shitfight to come from it, blinged up parts won’t stay blinged up very long on the trails. There’s no spectators (or very few) at enduros/vinduros, most guys are there for the ride so winning the pit show doesn’t carry a lot of credence.
Also there is no talk of going beyond 1990
Too new for VERi???
(http://dirtbikemagazine.com/Media/News/kdx200action19862.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4e/47/57/4e4757674c1a9556a54ba268b5f21abc--relief-stress.jpg)
(http://archive.classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/maico-250-gme.jpg)
(https://www.freesites.com.au/login/members/imagemanager/images/89fcd07f20b6785b92134bd6c1d0fa42/Misc%20Photos-1/87-Husky-430-side.jpg)
(https://www.freesites.com.au/login/members/imagemanager/images/89fcd07f20b6785b92134bd6c1d0fa42/Misc%20Photos-1/87-Husky-250.JPG)
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Too modern for VERi?
(http://www.geoffmorrisconcepts.com/inc/gallery/large/1e35fec079a50c491e48ca4802e26622-large.jpg)
(http://www.geoffmorrisconcepts.com/inc/gallery/large/ac0052bbc599b484d9ede65b513f5bfc-large.jpg)
(https://www.freesites.com.au/login/members/imagemanager/images/89fcd07f20b6785b92134bd6c1d0fa42/Misc%20Photos-1/87KX125before-2.jpg)
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I don't have any issues with those bikes, and I would think it would be great to see an ATK like that.
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My idea of Vinduro.
(http://i.imgur.com/CdWio25.jpg)
Not my idea of Vinduro (A very nice bike though)
(http://i.imgur.com/JJc0r97.jpg)
I have an interest in a move to Pre '88 as l have a '87 kdx200 l wouldn't mind riding but l don't expect the club to change it's participation rules to suit me.
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pre 88?? where did that come from :o
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FIM is pre-88 with technology exclusions.
Both allow 1987 bikes like the TT350.
FIM considers that Pre-88 is the best cutoff date for Vinduro. Do we want Vinduro or just old bikes?
I also bought this up at a pre VERi event many years back that we should run Pre 88 due to the 85-87 models that I consider are still old school bikes. It seemed that no one at the time could comprehend a cut off date that didn’t end in a zero or a five. Maybe I was ahead of my time????
I have an interest in a move to Pre '88
pre 88?? where did that come from :o
If club members vote to move from pre '85, it doesn't necessarily have to be to pre '90.
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pre 88?? where did that come from
You obviously weren't at the AGM a couple of years ago where several alternative options to Pre 85 were proposed.
Too modern for VERi?
(https://www.freesites.com.au/login/members/imagemanager/images/89fcd07f20b6785b92134bd6c1d0fa42/Misc%20Photos-1/87KX125before-2.jpg)
Yes, in my opinion too modern for VERi. But that's only my opinion, and a democratic vote will again decide the issue, and like pretty much most members I will accept the outcome.
While I acknowledge GMC's contention that the idea is celebrate old bikes and old times from days long gone
, this is a subjective idea, and means different things to different people. The year 2000 was 17 years ago, and is undoubtedly viewed by some as "days long gone". Is trying to satisfy individual interpretations of what is 'old' a desirable alternative to an established and successful format, that is far from waning in popularity?
I perhaps cling to an idealised notion of the club being for bikes that are undeniably and irrefutably 'old', and I'd rather see more bikes from the 1970s at VERi events than the arrival of bikes from the late 80s.
So, I'd rather see more of this:
(https://www.motoguapa.com/MONTESA/Models%20cartells%20virtuals%201969%20endavant/1974%20Enduro%20250%20F.jpg)
Image from www.motoguapa.com
(http://www.vinduronz.com/uploads/1/6/6/4/16643536/7648967_orig.jpg)
Image from www.vinduronz.com
Than this:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3668/13253629705_c57b52796a.jpg)
Image from www.flickr.com
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2846/9056054688_f196ae529f_b.jpg)
Image from www.flickr.com
;)
Tex
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Agree with Tex totally. It's not just the reasons that I stated above but I truly believe that with the more technologically advanced bikes coming into play, bikes like the ones he's pictured and quirky bikes seen at Veri events like DR200's and down-pipe Maicos will be lost from the trails.
I also think we'll probably see a lot more of the Air Ambo as the speeds inevitably increase and the night before bull session (well lubricated) runs to the early hours.....
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I also think we'll probably see a lot more of the Air Ambo as the speeds inevitably increase
;D ;D ;D load of crap...at the recent masters games I lapped my twinshocker faster than the "team mates" on the 2009 wr 450.
80% rider...more like some of the real old guys having bingles from lack of balance, poor sight etc ( I know where that's coming from >:()
I agree with tex, love to see the older bikes but the cost of them is through the roof, parts are getting harder to find for some bikes and the motivation for older guys on the fringe is waning. I just see pre 90 or pre 88 as a way to introduce (im estimating 15 % or so..) more punters to the game and keep things ticking over.
don't forget, a lot of people wont be bothered to rego etc and might do a uvp for harrow but probably wouldn't "be bothered" to ride other events...
bit like the sea lake rally from years ago, 50% of the field were once a year racers
im done..will watch the vote with interest (unless im frantically trying to get the bike repaired again :o)
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Twin shocks for me all the way because that's my era,but having said that , IMHO I think that pre-90 would have minimal adverse effect on Veri events .
This is based on my observations at QLD events.
The only way, is to have another vote and let the membership decide.
Shoey
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Veri member since it was formed, and have been to most events in Victoria since the first vinduro in Australia back in 08 l think it was. There is a lot to consider here lad's, l will cast my vote at the AGM. and will try to keep an open mind on this subject until our annual Harrow meeting, it is interesting to hear the input from guy's who ride in the northern states. This subject has been on the agenda for the last two years and has attracted much debate! Regards Jimbo
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I also bought this up at a pre VERi event many years back that we should run Pre 88 due to the 85-87 models that I consider are still old school bikes. It seemed that no one at the time could comprehend a cut off date that didn’t end in a zero or a five. Maybe I was ahead of my time????
I just want to say that 88 is two fat ladies. Good thinking GM. ;D
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;D ;D ;D load of crap...at the recent masters games I lapped my twinshocker faster than the "team mates" on the 2009 wr 450.
Oh well. You're obviously a gun mate.
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Oh well. You're obviously a gun mate.
seriously, I couldn't ride out of site on a dark nite :o, my point was given even rider skills, the bikes irrelevant and I don't think new punters on 5 years newer bikes will be hurling themselves into the scrub any faster than us on our older twin shocks ;D
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I'm a twin shock enthusiast given my age & I was only 2-5 seconds slower on my 1984 WR400 Husky than my 2012 KTM250 around my 15 minute training loop, so the speed thing is really not a factor IMO. As Shoey said, it really should go to a vote by the VERI members, there are probably more legitimate reasons to include pre'90 than exclude it. Let the members decide.
K
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I formed VinduroWA two years ago and we ride pre90 bikes. We have found no problem with it, except from people outside the club telling us we should be riding pre95, as i've always said, join the club and vote for a change, otherwise disappear into the distance. Most of these people are members of the ClassicMXWA who run pre95 and over 35 vets on modern bikes. The reason they do this is because they couldn't get enough members without it. This though has caused a loss of pre85 bikes as they are all heading for the more "modern class of pre90 and pre95
No matter what you run you will always get someone complaining as we all know. We used pre90 in line with MA's classification of the Classic MX classes which run to pre95. When MA changes to pre95 we will probably follow suit. We have everything from pre75 bikes to pre90 and no one cares, because they are having fun in non competitive vinduros
Barry
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and no one cares, because they are having fun in non competitive vinduros
that's my point zachary
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seriously, I couldn't ride out of site on a dark nite :o, my point was given even rider skills, the bikes irrelevant and I don't think new punters on 5 years newer bikes will be hurling themselves into the scrub any faster than us on our older twin shocks ;D
Never a truer word spoken.
Me and 4 mates had this discussion and tested the theory at a MX and flat track courses. 5 bikes ranged from 1990's YZ125, to '79 CR250, to hybrid XL500 in CR250 frame VMX racer to a 2015 KTM125SX.
All riders did timed laps on each bike. All riders posted different times from one another but almost exactly the same time individually on each bike.
Now, granted, there may be a different result with a top (or fitter) rider on board, but back in the day we were all pretty handy round an MX track. But the rider is in most cases the limiting factor in terms of speed. The biggest consideration would be the extra damage later model bikes can do to the track. But this is far less of an issue on enduro courses.
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It's pretty simple, be as progressive and inclusive as possible without totally losing the concept and mantra of what the club was formed with, then it continues to flourish.
Or
Stick with all the current rules and formats because "that's how it is" and eventually all your customers die off and the club ceases someday (probably quite a while) down the line.
My 2c, I'm out now ;)
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Ive always been an advocate of Pre 90 as this is the era of bikes I can readily identify with. Being in my early 40's I still remember reading issues of ADB when in high school in the late 80's/90's. The pre 85 & 90 debate has been a contentious one over the years and I've seen both sides of the arguments.
However when I set out the format for Cookardinia Vinduro I went with the rolling 25 year rule which is used by many vintage motorcycle clubs. A lot of people said it was a bad move but having done the entries for Cooka over the years most entrants still rode Pre 85 model bikes. In 2014 we had 90 entrants and of them 5 were on post 85 model bikes. Nathan Senior was one of them aboard his KDX. There was no flood of modern bikes as people presumed would happen.
I'm not a fan of rules, no rear disc or upside down forks at current events. You might aswell make it Pre 85 for all that's worth. Basically any motorcross bike built after 1987 is illegible due to rear disc. There is also a swag of great enduro bikes also illegible. I have numerous bikes in "The Shed of Despair" that fall in the category of 87-90 but they'll never see the dirt with current rules.
We need to move with the times and keep people interested in the sport.
Nice pics there Geoff.
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After considerable discussion, the members of VERi present at last nights AGM have voted on the bike eligibility issue and have decided to move the age of bikes that are eligible for VERi events to pre '88.
It was also voted that the bike eligibility issue will not be raised as an item on the agenda for the next 3 years.
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I have numerous bikes in "The Shed of Despair" that fall in the category of 87-90 but they'll never see the dirt
I want to say something funny. ;D ;D
Is it ok to say "only bikes that go can go"
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lots of people came on sunday with bikes like that ;D including me >:(
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I'm not a fan of rules, no rear disc or upside down forks at current events. You might aswell make it Pre 85 for all that's worth. Basically any motorcross bike built after 1987 is illegible due to rear disc. There is also a swag of great enduro bikes also illegible.
VTR run this rule ; Good attendance at events so far , seems to work OK , for now .
I have numerous bikes in "The Shed of Despair" that fall in the category of 87-90 but they'll never see the dirt with current rules.
Pre 85 ; Pre 90 ; VTR events ? ..........You have bikes to suit them all.
When do any of your bikes see the dirt ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Steve
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pretty good call i rekon, lets in later a/c kdx 200's, single shocker huskys and kato's and keeps out wr/yz yammies and rmx's etc, what i consider to be next (on the long list) generation bikes....
im not predicting an avalanche of newer bikes....but another dozen would be welcome to the events (on top of the current riders who have a newer scoot in the shed)
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I have numerous bikes in "The Shed of Despair" that fall in the category of 87-90 but they'll never see the dirt with current rules.
Welcome to VERi where all vinduro and trail (including Yamaha Ag) bikes that align themselves in our new Pre '88 format are invited to attend our non competitive events :)
You don't need to be a VERi member to attend our events either.
(http://i.imgur.com/DD6xh2t.jpg)
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I'm not a fan of rules, no rear disc or upside down forks at current events. You might aswell make it Pre 85 for all that's worth. Basically any motorcross bike built after 1987 is illegible due to rear disc. There is also a swag of great enduro bikes also illegible.
VTR run this rule ; Good attendance at events so far , seems to work OK , for now .
I have numerous bikes in "The Shed of Despair" that fall in the category of 87-90 but they'll never see the dirt with current rules.
Pre 85 ; Pre 90 ; VTR events ? ..........You have bikes to suit them all.
When do any of your bikes see the dirt ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Steve
Might have to correct you there buddy. Can I ride an 89RMX at VTR events, how about an 89YZ WR 250 or an 88WMW 250 and there's plenty more. The answer is NO. In case you haven't noticed being a new comer to the world of Facebook there has been a massive resurgence in late 80's and 90's motorcross and enduro bikes. Some guys are doing outstanding work restoring these bikes. It would be great to keep up with the times and incorporate them in current events.
Calling an event Pre 90 means bikes made on or before December 31, 1989. Unless I've been mistaken I don't recall seeing that as a VTR rule. Pretty sure it says no rear disc or upside forks, so why not call it Pre 87 then, because that's what it is for a lot of bikes that are ineligible.
As for my bikes seeing the dirt it's called Lochmaree, and it's just re opened. You might remember it because I ran you down with my 465 ;)
The other thing is I'm very selective who I ride with :)
Might see you next year when I join team green.
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I have numerous bikes in "The Shed of Despair" that fall in the category of 87-90 but they'll never see the dirt with current rules.
Welcome to VERi where all vinduro and trail (including Yamaha Ag) bikes that align themselves in our new Pre '88 format are invited to attend our non competitive events :)
You don't need to be a VERi member to attend our events either.
(http://i.imgur.com/DD6xh2t.jpg)
Sounds like a good format Geoff. Would be good to if the scope broadens to Pre 90 in the future.
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Pre 85 ; Pre 90 ; VTR events ? ..........You have bikes to suit them all.
Let me clarify ;
With all these bikes you have ;
Maico SC250 & 500, M-Star GM250 KX125A6,500A1 KX250B KDX 250B1 IT175,200,465 TT600N PE400T Husky XC250, WR240 & 400 CR250
You got something to suit all the different clubs eligiblity requirements ; be it VTR ,Veri or other clubs .
In case you haven't noticed being a new comer to the world of Facebook there has been a massive resurgence in late 80's and 90's motorcross and enduro bikes.
Yep ; your absolutely right , I hadn't noticed : too busy riding :)
I 'm sure there are some lovely restored bikes from the 90's era ; I had '94 KTM300 for many years (great bike ) ; but I think it would look out of place at a vintage enduro;..... for the time being, anyhow .
Regards ,
Steve
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Pre 85 ; Pre 90 ; VTR events ? ..........You have bikes to suit them all.
Let me clarify ;
With all these bikes you have ;
Maico SC250 & 500, M-Star GM250 KX125A6,500A1 KX250B KDX 250B1 IT175,200,465 TT600N PE400T Husky XC250, WR240 & 400 CR250
You got something to suit all the different clubs eligiblity requirements ; be it VTR ,Veri or other clubs .
In case you haven't noticed being a new comer to the world of Facebook there has been a massive resurgence in late 80's and 90's motorcross and enduro bikes.
Yep ; your absolutely right , I hadn't noticed : too busy riding :)
I 'm sure there are some lovely restored bikes from the 90's era ; I had '94 KTM300 for many years (great bike ) ; but I think it would look out of place at a vintage enduro;..... for the time being, anyhow .
Regards ,
Steve
Unfortunately Steve if I listed all my bikes in my signature there would be no room for my quality posts.
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I have numerous bikes in "The Shed of Despair" that fall in the category of 87-90 but they'll never see the dirt with current rules.
Welcome to VERi where all vinduro and trail (including Yamaha Ag) bikes that align themselves in our new Pre '88 format are invited to attend our non competitive events :)
You don't need to be a VERi member to attend our events either.
(http://i.imgur.com/DD6xh2t.jpg)
Sounds like a good format Geoff. Would be good to if the scope broadens to Pre 90 in the future.
(As l remember it) the club had debated and voted at the AGM on going to pre '90 for the last three years, 2015,16 and 17.
Each time pre '90 failed to get up because the members didn't support the change, and it's not like the numbers were particularly close, pre '90 lost out to remaining pre '85 in '15 and '16, and it was pretty clear it wouldn't have got up this year either.
As to when VERi might go to pre '90.
The members decided in accepting the move to pre '88 that the issue of bike eligibility would not be on the agenda for the next 3 years so I'm sure in the future the issue will be raised again and will be voted on by the club members at that time.
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As for my bikes seeing the dirt it's called Lochmaree, and it's just re opened.
The other thing is I'm very selective who I ride with :)
Might see you next year when I join team green.
I feel special cause I ride there with you every time, albiet not often enough but I am consistantly the slowest rider when we do.
Dont forget to let me know when I can come and pick up the green bike that has been pushed even further down the dungeon and refused your attention.
I might be wrong but most of those pre 90 mx bike stuff on fb is like mx is there thing anyhow, I dont know how many of them are really interested in vintage enduro. The bike park I go to a bit 99% of everyone is just there riding mx tracks, you have the enduro trails pretty much to yourself. You get some funny looks when the old drum braked 80s enduro bike comes out and heads bush.
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With Lochmaree back in action Brian a visit is soon on the cards. Brendan is looking forward to a rematch.
You are special mate. Apart from a shared interest in green machines there is also a shared love of fine dining cuisine. ;)
As for the green machine in the corner one of it's relatives may make an appearance next year.
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So let me be the first to poke the bear :P Does the follow on models rule still exist? Can someone now ride a 1994 TT350 as it identical to the 1986 model in every way other than livery??
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Good question Rookie, And by all accounts you should be able to turn up on a 2017 TTR230. Meets the requirements disc/drum, aircooled.
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Good question Rookie, And by all accounts you should be able to turn up on a 2017 TTR230. Meets the requirements disc/drum, aircooled.
Was there a TTR230 available in 1987 ?
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Yamaha TTR230 was available from 2005.
It may be ok for VTR events in NSW but you should contact them first to check.
Not ok for VERi events in Victoria.
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I think I recall the question of the TTR 230 arising and the answer was no as we can all agree in good faith that it is far from considered to fall close to being Vintage it wasnt about excluding anyone it just doesnt serve the best interest of a vintage event.
Eligable bikes are not hard to find, numbers are ever increasing at Vinduros.
If you want to ride a later model bike in an event there is plenty of modern events around that they qualify for. Just jump on your states MA site to see whats on.
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So let me be the first to poke the bear :P Does the follow on models rule still exist? Can someone now ride a 1994 TT350 as it identical to the 1986 model in every way other than livery??
As the MoMS lists follow on models in some categories (Pre 70, Pre 75, Pre 78, etc) these machines are the only recognised follow on models. So if you think there are other machines that should be follow on models email MA requesting they be considered.
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Good question Rookie, And by all accounts you should be able to turn up on a 2017 TTR230. Meets the requirements disc/drum, aircooled.
Was there a TTR230 available in 1987 ?
Just using the TT as an example of an air cooled drum brake bike Geoff irrespective of the year. Just depends how technical you want to get.
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Just so we're all clear, the new eligibility criteria for VERi is motorbikes from 1987 or earlier (i.e. Pre 88). There is no suggestion of a technology based cut-off (so a TTR230, CRF230F, etc would not be welcome).
More details about the new eligibility criteria will be available on the VERi website soon.
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Just so we're all clear, the new eligibility criteria for VERi is motorbikes from 1987 or earlier (i.e. Pre 88). There is no suggestion of a technology based cut-off (so a TTR230, CRF230F, etc would not be welcome).
More details about the new eligibility criteria will be available on the VERi website soon.
Thanks for clearing that up VERI but my comments are more concerned with NSW events that do not have a clear and distinct cut off period.
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Thanks for clearing that up VERI but my comments are more concerned with NSW events that do not have a clear and distinct cut off period.
Melinda was wondering why you were so worried about this, she mentioned that you only turn up once in every three years mr maico.
I told her to be nice because I heard on the wind that you may make a suprise visit on a green machine.
You seen the disapointed look on our faces when they said you wernt coming, im sure there is a pic of it somewhere.
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Thanks for clearing that up VERI but my comments are more concerned with NSW events that do not have a clear and distinct cut off period.
Yes of course. Seeing as the thread was originally about VERi and has "VERi" in the title, it seemed like a good idea to slot in a comment to nip any confusion in the bud! :)
Maybe we need a new thread to discuss vinduro eligibility for other clubs/states?
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Maybe we need a new thread to discuss vinduro eligibility for other clubs/states?
Maybe we should all give it a rest for 3 years.
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Maybe we need a new thread to discuss vinduro eligibility for other clubs/states?
Maybe we should all give it a rest for 3 years.
5 pages in,thats the best comment so far,(closely followed by Veri's 2nd last comment ;)) nice one MB, :P
thoight i best clear that up ;D
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Thanks for clearing that up VERI but my comments are more concerned with NSW events that do not have a clear and distinct cut off period.
Yes of course. Seeing as the thread was originally about VERi and has "VERi" in the title, it seemed like a good idea to slot in a comment to nip any confusion in the bud! :)
Maybe we need a new thread to discuss vinduro eligibility for other clubs/states?
VinduroWA in the west is simple pre90 no caveat anything outside owners onis to show it is a follow on model
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VERI website is still pre 85 :D best get on to the webmaster 8)
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This is great move forward for what is a very very good club.
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VERI website is still pre 85 :D best get on to the webmaster 8)
Bloody unpaid volunteers! Sack the lot of them! ;)
Tex
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It seems if you weren't overjoyed with this decision (not even being aware aware that it was being proposed), the way it was swept in with no discussion beforehand and you actually dare to air your veiws, then you get THE telephone call.
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It seems if you weren't overjoyed with this decision (not even being aware aware that it was being proposed), the way it was swept in with no discussion beforehand and you actually dare to air your veiws, then you get THE telephone call.
;D like I said, if you're prepared to be "that bloke" then there is a path of recourse... ;)
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Maybe we need a new thread to discuss vinduro eligibility for other clubs/states?
Maybe we should all give it a rest for 3 years.
;D Sounds sensible Mark - nah, it'll never work!!!
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Despite our members youthful appearances we were once again able to have a mature debate with good points from both sides of the fence.
While I feel the cutoff date should be moved forward over time the big question is probably when. You don’t wait for your car to run out of petrol before you top it up.
I think sensibly though we took the small step to Pre 88 along with a 3 year shut the fork up clause.
This will give us some stability and allow some other old bikes to ride with us, as mentioned at the start, air cooled KDX’s, last of the Maico’s and Swedish Husqvarna’s among others.
“So if you think there are other machines that should be follow on models email MA requesting they be considered.”
Don’t bother asking MA, our club has always run our own eligibility criteria and as such have run a page on our website listing accepted follow on models.
If you think a bike should be listed then just politely ask from the eligibility page as many have done before.
“Can someone now ride a 1994 TT350 as it identical to the 1986 model in every way other than livery??”
As above, just ask the club, however you will need to give the new committee time for their feet to hit the ground.
“It seems if you weren't overjoyed with this decision (not even being aware that it was being proposed)”
Don’t know why you would think it wouldn’t be brought up, it’s been on the VERi agenda every AGM and I laid my cards on the table here weeks before the AGM
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I look forward to getting amongst the vinduro scene with the PE400, Maico 490gs and now the little 87 kdx 200.
It looks like a great bunch of guys having fun and that's what it's all about!!
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Does the follow on models rule still exist? Can someone now ride a 1994 TT350 as it identical to the 1986 model in every way other than livery?
Yes, flow on models are still ok. Any TT350 would thus be eligible. We are in the process of updating the eligibility page on the VERi website. Contact one of the committee members if you have specific questions and we'll try and get you an answer as soon as we can.
It looks like a great bunch of guys having fun and that's what it's all about!!
Yep, that's right!
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Im very happy about the new rule change, although I will still be riding bikes from the 70s and early 80s!! 8)
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Not happy look at the veri website for my eligibility of my bike and it had changed >:(