OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: jimson on November 21, 2016, 06:38:28 pm
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G'day viewers, can someone educate me or direct me to purchasing a gasless mig ? I will only be using it for repairing the rust in my old Bedford truck project. I can stick weld, not perfect but enough to make a trailer & have learnt mig at tafe many years ago lol so it's going to be interesting welding with a mig. I just don't want the hassles with renting bottles. Jimson
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get a Tig.. Much better and can use it on more things. Thin sheet metal is a bitch with a Mig but it can be done. spot spot spot spot.
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I think gasless mig is poo.
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...gasless mig can be useful for spotwelding sheet metal.
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I paid 800 for the mig and then 500 to buy gas bottle outright. Gasless Mig is like a dry fart.
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Slakewell, I don't know about you, but I'd rather a dry fart then a wet one lol cost is a big issue for me so I'll have to investigate the situation. Were do you buy bottles outright & who fills them ? Jimson
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tig welders are no good for panel work on cars, too much zinc in the panels. If your doing a bit of welding on thin metal, take the plunge and buy a gas bottle, your way better off
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Gasless Migs are good for welding gal or outdoors but I don't think much of them otherwise, much better of with a gas bottle.
Also most inverter migs these days can be used as a tig if your keen enough to buy a torch and another gas bottle.
Bottle rental should be somewhere around $15 a month
You can buy bottles from some places plus you can also buy mini bottles as well (meant for awkward site jobs) but the gas is usually a lot dearer this way so depends on how much welding you do
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Slakewell, I don't know about you, but I'd rather a dry fart then a wet one lol cost is a big issue for me so I'll have to investigate the situation. Were do you buy bottles outright & who fills them ? Jimson
Bunnings are now doing gas. Oxy, actetylene, argon and a MIG gas mix similar to Argosheild. They only have D size cylinders which are the smaller size ones, you pay $200 refundable deposit for each cylinder then pay just for the gas each fill and no rent ever again.
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Bunnings don't do acetylene apparently. Well I have been told the same thing by two NSW stores but maybe they do in other states.
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I'm sure Bunnings in my town cessnock NSW has Acetylene bottles
I'm in there a few times a week I will double check but I'm 90% sure they have them..
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Slakewell, I don't know about you, but I'd rather a dry fart then a wet one lol cost is a big issue for me so I'll have to investigate the situation. Were do you buy bottles outright & who fills them ? Jimson
Bunnings are now doing gas. Oxy, actetylene, argon and a MIG gas mix similar to Argosheild. They only have D size cylinders which are the smaller size ones, you pay $200 refundable deposit for each cylinder then pay just for the gas each fill and no rent ever again.
Sounds good for those of us with all the gear, (gauges, Dillon torch, hoses) but a very occasional use for oxy.
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My local store at Capalaba Qld has all the gases in stock and there open 7 days a week. I have there OXY and Acet as I don't use much anymore but still pay rent on a BOC argon cylinder as I use enough of it to justify the rip-off rental costs.
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Gasweld do Argon - buy the bottle, pay the refill and flip the bird to BOC.
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Do... gasweld do E size bottles ???
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Yep, sure do. C, D, E and G, take your pick. The refill is about the same price as BOC from memory.
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I love the info from you guys.
Think I might buy a TIG. How different is the setup going from alloy (I'll probably only try it a few more times before I give that up) and steel. (Some hope of proficiency.) Same gas? (Excuse my ignorance.)
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I love the info from you guys.
Think I might buy a TIG. How different is the setup going from alloy (I'll probably only try it a few more times before I give that up) and steel. (Some hope of proficiency.) Same gas? (Excuse my ignorance.)
Steel uses DC current with a thoriated electrode and alloy uses AC high frequency with a zirconiated electrode. Gas for both is pure Argon. If you plan to do alloy think about getting a water cooled torch as the current needed is much higher.
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If you do get a TIG and use the thoriated electrodes be careful as they are radioactive. Breathing the grinding dust from sharpening the tip is bad for you and I wouldn't store electrodes close to your person.
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I tried to buy some zirconiated rods the other day and they told me , you can no longer get them? Had a new one that is meant to do both now? Health reasons?
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yep get a tig that can do ac ("A" for alloy) then you can weld aluminium and those magnesium covers, then it all comes down to what series rods and practice
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If you do get a TIG and use the thoriated electrodes be careful as they are radioactive. Breathing the grinding dust from sharpening the tip is bad for you and I wouldn't store electrodes close to your person.
More good info.
Looking at my friends machine, I'm not sure I could even learn to set the machine up, let alone practice enough to be proficient.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff310/skypig/IMG_7781.jpg) (http://s237.photobucket.com/user/skypig/media/IMG_7781.jpg.html)
In my youth I did 2 years of stick welding at TAFE. I wonder if there is anything like that these days for TIG?
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Flick it to 4T crank the peak current to 200 , then set the base around 75 , downslope around half way. That should do most Alloy
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Flick it to 4T crank the peak current to 200 , then set the base around 75 , downslope around half way. That should do most Alloy
is it the peak current that does the cleaning on that machine? if so set it to around ninety for welding old alloy!
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If you do get a TIG and use the thoriated electrodes be careful as they are radioactive. Breathing the grinding dust from sharpening the tip is bad for you and I wouldn't store electrodes close to your person.
More good info.
Looking at my friends machine, I'm not sure I could even learn to set the machine up, let alone practice enough to be proficient.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff310/skypig/IMG_7781.jpg) (http://s237.photobucket.com/user/skypig/media/IMG_7781.jpg.html)
In my youth I did 2 years of stick welding at TAFE. I wonder if there is anything like that these days for TIG?
If it is left in 2T mode the peak current is welding current and I think the AC balance(my machine calls it clean weld) has an effect on the cleaning of oxide and contaminants.
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The pictured machine used to have a vital accessory- a skilled operator
Jobs he did for me.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff310/skypig/IMG_6388.jpg) (http://s237.photobucket.com/user/skypig/media/IMG_6388.jpg.html)
And DC
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff310/skypig/IMG_2176.jpg) (http://s237.photobucket.com/user/skypig/media/IMG_2176.jpg.html)
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It takes a few years to get good at TIG and even after close to 40 years of doing it I'm still learning. Struggle now as one get older is to see what I'm doing and try not to forget the things learnt in my youth. You are correct about the operator, very important part.
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It takes a few years to get good at TIG and even after close to 40 years of doing it I'm still learning. Struggle now as one get older is to see what I'm doing and try not to forget the things learnt in my youth. You mare correct about the operator, very important part.
yep I'm loosing it, haven't welded alloy for a few months so off to me mates work shop, he said hes got a metre or two of aluminium to weld, he said you should have ya hand and eyes co-ordinated by the time you leave, first weld will probably look like shit!
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If you do get a TIG and use the thoriated electrodes be careful as they are radioactive. Breathing the grinding dust from sharpening the tip is bad for you and I wouldn't store electrodes close to your person.
More good info.
Looking at my friends machine, I'm not sure I could even learn to set the machine up, let alone practice enough to be proficient.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff310/skypig/IMG_7781.jpg) (http://s237.photobucket.com/user/skypig/media/IMG_7781.jpg.html)
In my youth I did 2 years of stick welding at TAFE. I wonder if there is anything like that these days for TIG?
If it is left in 2T mode the peak current is welding current and I think the AC balance(my machine calls it clean weld) has an effect on the cleaning of oxide and contaminants.
The arc balance affects the cleaning. Normally you park it in the middle and leave it. Moving the balance only changes the width of the ark not the cleaning affect. But if it's wider it looks to clean more but it doesn't.
I use the arc balance more for stoping my electrode from dripping than cleaning. If you crank all the way to wide clean on a 2.4 electrode above 200 it will start to melt. Turn it the other way and it stay cooler. Sorry if that looks a bit dutch. about the cleaning action. Turn the knob right and the arc gets wider ( sort of cleans better ) The weld pool gets wider and harder to look after as well. Turn to the left and it cleans much the same but in smaller width ,( so appears worse ).
When I used to to do alloy heat exchanges in power stations I would prep the fork out of it , so cleaning action not really needed. I would turn to the left narrow arch for more penetration and a perfect weld. They ex ray most welds after on these jobs and a few failures and your fired.
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It takes a few years to get good at TIG and even after close to 40 years of doing it I'm still learning. Struggle now as one get older is to see what I'm doing and try not to forget the things learnt in my youth. You are correct about the operator, very important part.
This is what you need Sleepy, if you haven't already got one.
https://www.revolutionindustrial.com.au/assets/full/N469.jpg
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It takes a few years to get good at TIG and even after close to 40 years of doing it I'm still learning. Struggle now as one get older is to see what I'm doing and try not to forget the things learnt in my youth. You are correct about the operator, very important part.
This is what you need Sleepy, if you haven't already got one.
https://www.revolutionindustrial.com.au/assets/full/N469.jpg
Got those, work well but no substitute for young eyes.
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just finishing playing with the tig, it turned out the job was a alloy punt, so 8 metres of welding all up, we took the time to twiddle with the knobs, arc balance, amps, current
we both fiddled while the other weld, set out sections with a texta and gave settings then went back had a look and a chat,
so all inall was good and feel better about my welding, so have a bucket of rm, pe magnesium covers so will hava crack,
Any of you Guru's please feel free to offer tips, I'm only a 4 year old boily (yer I know I left my run late) long story, just sorta happened
p.s did do watch weldingtipsandtricks.com for rod series az101 and cleaning prepping etc
cheers
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just finishing playing with the tig, it turned out the job was a alloy punt, so 8 metres of welding all up, we took the time to twiddle with the knobs, arc balance, amps, current
we both fiddled while the other weld, set out sections with a texta and gave settings then went back had a look and a chat,
so all inall was good and feel better about my welding, so have a bucket of rm, pe magnesium covers so will hava crack,
Any of you Guru's please feel free to offer tips, I'm only a 4 year old boily (yer I know I left my run late) long story, just sorta happened
p.s did do watch weldingtipsandtricks.com for rod series az101 and cleaning prepping etc
cheers
Most important is the filler rod, needs to be almost pure Mag, costs about 10 times that of alloy and much harder to get. I count the buts and workout the cost of filler rods and add to bill, last batch was about $2 a stick. The 5%mag alloy rods don't work. Welding current needed is usually quite a bit less the alloy
Cleaner the better. Having a longer post flow of gas helps as well. Be very careful with any grinding dust/swarf on your bench it will burn very vigorously(don't ask how I know).
If the job does start to burn quickly turn the welding current to 0 and blast the flames with argon by holding down the welding button.
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just finishing playing with the tig, it turned out the job was a alloy punt, so 8 metres of welding all up, we took the time to twiddle with the knobs, arc balance, amps, current
we both fiddled while the other weld, set out sections with a texta and gave settings then went back had a look and a chat,
so all inall was good and feel better about my welding, so have a bucket of rm, pe magnesium covers so will hava crack,
Any of you Guru's please feel free to offer tips, I'm only a 4 year old boily (yer I know I left my run late) long story, just sorta happened
p.s did do watch weldingtipsandtricks.com for rod series az101 and cleaning prepping etc
cheers
Most important is the filler rod, needs to be almost pure Mag, costs about 10 times that of alloy and much harder to get. I count the buts and workout the cost of filler rods and add to bill, last batch was about $2 a stick. The 5%mag alloy rods don't work. Welding current needed is usually quite a bit less the alloy
Cleaner the better. Having a longer post flow of gas helps as well. Be very careful with any grinding dust/swarf on your bench it will burn very vigorously(don't ask how I know).
If the job does start to burn quickly turn the welding current to 0 and blast the flames with argon by holding down the welding button.
good advice, thanx Sleepy
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Oil residue is a pain also, Clean the work area thoroughly.
I tend to use 90% magnesium 10 % Ali with a great deal of success and have elbow length tig gloves on.
Too much current and the bloody thing will catch fire and believe me its a scary moment . As Sleepy has stated put it out with argon gas shield.
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thanks old fart, with a bit of luck I'll get some time to finally get to do some of my jobs! funny thing when you are not racing you're no longer on the priority list (by self and others) so everything and everyone comes before me (even the wife is getting me to do things) LOL
Hey while on the subject doing home based choirs, fire season is on us so purchased another pump, old mates been using the Chonda's for a couple of years (ive used a chinese coil) and reconned no worries, so I went in and purchased a Electric start, 6.5hp (complete hondaGX160 copy)pump from Jono and Johno delivered for $318.71 including battery, was so happy with it rang them up and bought another, just saying
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When welding MAG , you must get it really clean. Welding current is way less ( under 20 on bike cases ) I also clean an area attach vise grips to that area and then earth on to vice grips. Keep the earth as close to the welded area as practical. I use 90% mag rods , yup there dear as. I think quarter kilo was like $180.00
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When welding MAG , you must get it really clean. Welding current is way less ( under 20 on bike cases ) I also clean an area attach vise grips to that area and then earth on to vice grips. Keep the earth as close to the welded area as practical. I use 90% mag rods , yup there dear as. I think quarter kilo was like $180.00
thanks Slakewell, more good advice! ahh shit havnt bought the rods yet, Ouch!
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Back to Gasless Mig (more accurately called Flux Cored arc welding).
They have their uses. eg. welding outside, where wind will waste an awful lot of Mig or Tig gas.
Flux Cored is also more tolerant of older, dirty or rustyish metal, (like a stick welder).
Biggest problem, is that the really cheapest ones, are AC welders, (like a stick welder).
They Splutter & Spatter and make welds that look like you have never used a welder, (Arc, Mig, Tig or Oxy.) in your life.
With patience & practice & fiddling with speed & power (volts/amps), you can sort of 'stick metal together' with one.
They can be vastly improved by converting them to DC, using suitably rated diode rectifiers.
You can also add capacitors, to even out any DC pulse, if you are worried about that.
If you don't have knowlege, experience, confidence & time to do this,
Spend the extra money and buy a Gas/Gasless Mig which should have a DC output, and use it gasless.
You need to ensure the polarity is changed to Negative Electrode for flux cored.
For thin panel steel you still need to do stitch & cool welding to prevent burn through & distortion.
Heaps of u-tube videos about all this stuff, though most are not worth your time.
Cheers, Daryl
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Been watching this thread and was considering writing something similar, but you have just done a far better job Daryl 8)
There is one very important thing not mentioned yet though and that is the same goes as for rod choices for stick welding.
Rods aren't rods. When I find a brand of GP for example, I then go out of my way to stick with them.
Some are absolute rubbish, same goes for flux cored wire, try the CigWeld brand ;)
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I live opposite a near 70 year old spritely panel beater. The legend is a dead set artist on full ground up vintage restos.
He has a giant rotisserie that takes a full car body/chassis. He uses this to achieve the optimum working and welding angle out comes where possible/practicable. (after watching him oxy weld aluminium on Healey Sprites etc, got me started. I can oxy weld cylinder fins back on, no problem)
I use this to great advantage on smaller stuff
http://forum.ozvmx.com/index.php?topic=31379.msg306257#msg306257 (http://forum.ozvmx.com/index.php?topic=31379.msg306257#msg306257)
I know you probably wont be able to rotate and position Jimsom, so you may have to employ several types of welding before you are done.
Don't get me wrong. I have done a fair bit of fine steel panel work on full metal car restos ::) ::) ::) ::)
Never again ::) ::) ::)
Mig with gas is god.
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Talking about Mag welding got of the subject a bit but does anyone know of a source for the Mag Tig rods here in OZ. Local welding supplier told me they need to be ordered from USA and I would need to get 5kg and mortgage the house. I have found an Ebay source from the states for 1lb pack at about $120 delivered.
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I got a few rods from the aircraft welders at archerfield, although
Though a little while back
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I'm still looking without selling me house, cant believe I'm saying this I'm gunna go and see what the Chinese have,
hey sa63 any chance I could get in on the act and get a couple of rods off ya (will swap for money)?
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I purchased my mag rods from Jaymac in Tamworth. Had to buy half a kilo but had a mate who took half.
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My last purchase was 3lbs about 10 years ago, can't remember the cost but it wasn't cheap. Thought I'd never use them up but a few Mag sprintcar diff's to repair and only got 1.5 sticks left.
I'll probably order out of US as it's seems to be about half the local price.