OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Honda => Topic started by: PBMGold on November 16, 2016, 03:19:20 pm
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Hi Brains Trust. I've always had a thing for the little XR200. Really sweet bike but everything is a little kiddie built - skinny forks, mild motor. I wonder if anyone has done or considered fitting an XR200 motor into either a CR125 or CR80 frame. My goal is to build something with better suspension, about the same weight or lighter and a wee bit more power than my KLX 250. It would be used for Vinduro and Evo class VMX so the frame would have to be a twin shocker.
Does anyone have any of the components to suit, eg 200cc motor or CR rolling frame? Thanks.
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There a couple of cr125s on this side of the ditch running xr200 motors, both quite nicely done & different to each other in the era of frame used
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there is a nice xr / rm 125 Godzilla getting around the Vinduro scene as well. its a sweet bike. the xr is the best bike as they are I rekon just flog the crap out of it and hang on... freshen the motor to std, reoil + gas the rear shock and chuck an alloy muffler on it. grease everything and new brake pads.
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Bunch of stuff on here about the XR 200.
Here is my version. 79 RM 125 frame.
(http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q747/Slakewell1/xr200-01%201_zpsfsqzfbpf.jpg)
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Hi I have an XR200 motor I may sell but I am in NSW .
Cheers Greg .
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That's a nice looking RM, Mr Slakewell. Appears to be a pretty good fit.
It would be nice to keep the components in the Honda stable, eg CR/XR, if possible.
Unny pucks from our Unzud friends of their CR versions?
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Thanks for the offer Greg. I'll keep that in mind but just weighing up the options at this stage. Is the motor a runner and have ignition and pipe etc?
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Would it be better approach to use an XR frame/motor and find some CR forks and triple clamps and 1979 twin shock swing arm and shocks? Anyone see a successful attempt at that?
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Anyone see a successful attempt at that??
Yep, in the picky above...
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That's a nice looking RM, Mr Slakewell. Appears to be a pretty good fit.
It would be nice to keep the components in the Honda stable, eg CR/XR, if possible.
Unny pucks from our Unzud friends of their CR versions?
The 80s framed bike is #355 from memory. I can try & take some photos at the next eNZed round at the start of the month if both are there
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(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/antax/Suzonda%202%202.jpg) (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/antax/media/Suzonda%202%202.jpg.html)
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e346/antax/2016-04-04%2018.20.08%202_1.jpg) (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/antax/media/2016-04-04%2018.20.08%202_1.jpg.html)
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that is very noice....
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Well done, I like the back wheel , hope I get mine that good. I like some more photo's if you could. Very well done header pipe as well.
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Took a few photos of the 91 framed bike yesterday, will post them up once I manage to get them off my phone & onto photobucket which isn't easy anymore
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This bloke might be able to offer some inspiration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J_DxrBaWU0
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This bloke might be able to offer some inspiration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J_DxrBaWU0
Surely..your having a lend of us Fred?
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am I dreamin or do the footpegs in that youtube clip go the "wrong way"?
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This bloke might be able to offer some inspiration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J_DxrBaWU0
Hmmm, interesting footpeg set up ::)
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Reg, That Suzuki conversion is perfect, a really nice job and a bike I'm sure anyone would be proud to add to their garage.
Fred, I must be missing something but that conversion made my eyes bleed and my brain to ponder why wouldn't you just buy an XL185. The It was only a passable handler and not what you would call a think of beauty and it's only saving grace was a reasonably good motor. It was funny that the video spent so much time describing the unique footpeg placement and the fugly pipe setup. Beauty, truly is in the eyes of the beholder.
Thanks for sharing all the same.
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Forward folding pegs aye ! Ive heard of thinking outside the square but thats thinkin' outside the planet ! Dont think id like to be the test pilot over a jump or log crossing with that one ! ????
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the guy just slides backwards every time he tries a hill and is sick of bending footpegs...
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Yep, when I first saw it, it made my eyes bleed.
Comments on the vid must be heavily moderated too, as there are only good things being said, and I cant think of one.
Oh, and for part one in the series about how to install dissimilar parts into the new Hoonda engine, here that is. This will also make your eyes bleed.
https://youtu.be/y79Kax5Q0zQ
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Well done, I like the back wheel , hope I get mine that good. I like some more photo's if you could. Very well done header pipe as well.
That header will be costing outputd I'd warrant- too restrictive out of the head. The SL 100 based engines all seem to go better with a down pipe. At least that HL style thing probably wont foul the wheel.
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Hi Brains Trust. I've always had a thing for the little XR200. Really sweet bike but everything is a little kiddie built - skinny forks, mild motor. I wonder if anyone has done or considered fitting an XR200 motor into either a CR125 or CR80 frame. My goal is to build something with better suspension, about the same weight or lighter and a wee bit more power than my KLX 250. It would be used for Vinduro and Evo class VMX so the frame would have to be a twin shocker.
Does anyone have any of the components to suit, eg 200cc motor or CR rolling frame? Thanks.
Hi PBMGold
her is some food for thought my 1983 XR200 ive prepped for the Viper series 2017
front forks have emulators and set up by wasp in SA
he also fabricated the rear shock
engine mods are all my work as im a engine builder by trade
home made reverse cone exhaust
looking forward to racing it against the 2 smokers
heres a vid of it when i was setting ignition timming and carby jetting
https://youtu.be/msbxIcnqvgM
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Bruce, That is a beautiful piece of kit and sounds awesome although I hope it doesn't exceed noise restrictions. Can you advise more details. The forks look like they have thicker stanchions and did I spy a hydraulic line to the rear brake?
Do you reckon that it will be competitive against 250 2 strokes?
I just love it. Please add pictures, thanks.
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Some shots of the 91 framed bike in NZ
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/tony27_photo/20161203_132504_zpsox7ggoud.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/tony27_photo/media/20161203_132504_zpsox7ggoud.jpg.html)
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/tony27_photo/20161203_132517_zps1mhdr6cg.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/tony27_photo/media/20161203_132517_zps1mhdr6cg.jpg.html)
This is to connect the carb to the CR airbox, next picture will explain why
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/tony27_photo/20161203_132542_zpsi8zfcsaz.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/tony27_photo/media/20161203_132542_zpsi8zfcsaz.jpg.html)
Carb is mounted 90deg across back of engine due to shock getting in the way
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/tony27_photo/20161203_132619_zpsnuqzx8tx.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/tony27_photo/media/20161203_132619_zpsnuqzx8tx.jpg.html)
Kickstart has clearance issues with footpeg, next photo shows solution
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/tony27_photo/20161203_132625_zps7bi850dh.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/tony27_photo/media/20161203_132625_zps7bi850dh.jpg.html)
Footpeg hooked out of the way
Sorry these were the only photos I got & I will be in the states for the next round so the next time I'll see it will be March
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Hi Brains Trust. I've always had a thing for the little XR200. Really sweet bike but everything is a little kiddie built - skinny forks, mild motor. I wonder if anyone has done or considered fitting an XR200 motor into either a CR125 or CR80 frame. My goal is to build something with better suspension, about the same weight or lighter and a wee bit more power than my KLX 250. It would be used for Vinduro and Evo class VMX so the frame would have to be a twin shocker.
Does anyone have any of the components to suit, eg 200cc motor or CR rolling frame? Thanks.
Hi PBMGold
her is some food for thought my 1983 XR200 ive prepped for the Viper series 2017
front forks have emulators and set up by wasp in SA
he also fabricated the rear shock
engine mods are all my work as im a engine builder by trade
home made reverse cone exhaust
looking forward to racing it against the 2 smokers
heres a vid of it when i was setting ignition timming and carby jetting
https://youtu.be/msbxIcnqvgM
Does that have a hydraulic rear drum brake???
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Hi Evo550
yes hydraulic rear drum brake just love tinkering with these old bikes the original cable missing and mount broken off the old frame so i thought up the hydraulic idea using a clutch master cylinder off a pit bike for the drum brake end, hand made all the bits works a treat but not race tested yet
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Bruce, That is a beautiful piece of kit and sounds awesome although I hope it doesn't exceed noise restrictions. Can you advise more details. The forks look like they have thicker stanchions and did I spy a hydraulic line to the rear brake?
Do you reckon that it will be competitive against 250 2 strokes?
I just love it. Please add pictures, thanks.
Hi PBMGold
Maybe with a good rider on it, but with me on it i will give the 125s a run for there money
even though the seat cover says 250cc its only a first oversize 200cc on the bore and std stroke
yes rear hydraulic drum brake home made set up ,the exhaust has the baffle removed its alot quieter with it in
I actually have pulled down the engine over xmas as i was not happy with the way honda secure the main bearings in the cases from standard when i first assembled I was abit unsure , as the ignition side of the case only has about 2/3rds of lip to stop the crank from floating
seeing this engine has the a rev limiter set at 13,000 rpm around 11,000 it had a bit of a vibration when i was riding it and tuning it
so stripped it down and realized the higher rpm was causing the crank bearings to turn in the cases as the way honda locates each bearing does not have a lot of material there
so did some measurements and have machined the inside of the cases to accept a circlip type bearing and removed the crank bearings and cut a circlip groove in them
with the cases bolted together there is a .005 crush on the circlip to case this should fix the loose bearing problem
also static balanced the crank using some mallory metal going back to gether over the new year
the rest of the engine has had heaps of mods
duel map digital crank triggered inner rotor ignition, .0435" lift roller cam,14:1 comp forged piston ,bigger inlet valve shortened brass guides and flow ported head, 32mm flat slide carby, barnett kevlar clutch,mega lightened crank took heaps of material off the sucker, home made 40mm exhaust and reverse cone exhaust, reworked the oiling system to supply straight to the cam and added a oil cooler
really looking forward to racing it next season
will post some photos of it when i put it back together
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Cant wait to see this thing in action!
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Bruce, I'm so happy you shared this with us but it's a shame in a way because you lose the 'Sleeper' effect where all the ring dingers just scoff and take you for granted the first time you line up. Would have loved to see how many club members sell their bikes to get one of those awesome XR200 'toys' after getting smoked.
Tell us more about forks and triple clamps and the pro shock. Longer travel, beefier parts etc?
Love that you have done hydraulic brakes but I suspect that is one of those things where it was just 'because I can' and not because of a desperate need to improve the cable setup.
Not familiar with Viper rules. Does this mean 4 strokes up to 250 can run in like an Evo 125 class?
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The MoMS only has Classic/Post Classic classes as
125cc
250cc
and Over 263cc (500)
So a 200 is in the 250 class.
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Yeah, that's how it runs in Queensland but common sense would have older 4 strokes in with 125 two strokes just like it was back in the 70's and 80's. My KLX puts out 16 hp when new and I suspect about 10hp in its 36 year old state. I wonder how many ponies a 125 two stroke produces.
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20 - 30 depending .....
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Bruce, I'm so happy you shared this with us but it's a shame in a way because you lose the 'Sleeper' effect where all the ring dingers just scoff and take you for granted the first time you line up. Would have loved to see how many club members sell their bikes to get one of those awesome XR200 'toys' after getting smoked.
Tell us more about forks and triple clamps and the pro shock. Longer travel, beefier parts etc?
Love that you have done hydraulic brakes but I suspect that is one of those things where it was just 'because I can' and not because of a desperate need to improve the cable setup.
Not familiar with Viper rules. Does this mean 4 strokes up to 250 can run in like an Evo 125 class?
Thanks PBMGold
Love the older 4 strokes just more smoother to ride than the 2 strokes ,don't get me wrong am nearly finished restoring a DG 1982 YZ80 J which i will race in the minis in the viper meets and have a 1980 YZ100G i picked up off evilbay for nicks and am making a IT175 barrel and DG head fit the cases a bit of welding and machining but it will bolt up should be a interesting combo if i can get it to work also made a Vforce 3 reed and later flatside caby to fit the intake
getting back to the XR200 OzVMX member Wasp from SA made the rear shock for me using the old shock for dimensions but adding a extra 1" of length ,adjustable spring preload, adjustable dampening, twin adjustments on the reservoir for low and high speed rebound ,then a bit of mucking around mounting the reservoir and getting the right length and angle on the fittings for the hose before we could charge the shock with oil ect
the front forks i stripped down and got a company in melbourne to make me new sealing rings on the tubes and i machined up a set of emulators i had by tuning down the OD so they slide into the fork tubes then machining the dampening rod so the emulator sits correctly then sent them back to Wasp to set up the springs and preload
finally i drilled and tapped the fork caps so i could fit a set of air cell fork control chambers also had to make a set of brackets for mounting the chambers
the triple clamps are STD but polished and new allen key type bolts
also rebushed the rear shock pivot with heaver duty bearings and bushes
and your right about the hydraulic rear brake thought to myself why try to fix up old set up and get new cable when i can do something which looks a bit more trick
would love to run in the 125cc class but if have to run in 250cc class all good as im to old [pushing 60]to go hard 100%
last season raced a modded XR100 in the mini class against all the YZs and KXs hole shotted into the first corner a from the gate once, the bike is just as quick as the 2 strokes but not interested in pushing it hard in and out of the corners like the younger blokes so they end up passing me im in it for the fun
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Yeah, that's how it runs in Queensland but common sense would have older 4 strokes in with 125 two strokes just like it was back in the 70's and 80's.
Really? Where were you allowed to ride a 250 4st with the 125s? That only happened when Yamaha bought out a powerful 250 4t that could run with the 250 2ts. Then somehow convinced MA to let them in with the 125s. thus stuffing the 125 class.
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I think it a good common sense rule, VIPER let it run. Its been this way for moderns for a long time.
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Yeah, that's how it runs in Queensland but common sense would have older 4 strokes in with 125 two strokes just like it was back in the 70's and 80's.
Really? Where were you allowed to ride a 250 4st with the 125s? That only happened when Yamaha bought out a powerful 250 4t that could run with the 250 2ts. Then somehow convinced MA to let them in with the 125s. thus stuffing the 125 class.
That someone was the Qld MX subcommittee who invented the Lites class. The Lites class was run in Qld for two years before it was in the MoMS. Even the AMA started running the class and used the name as well. When it was done first the 125 2/- & 250 4/- were compatible. If guys want larger capacity 4/-s in the 125 class well put in a rule change submission. But don't just whinge about it on forums or facebook.
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Well hardly a whinge, more an observation, although now that you mention it, maybe it should be submitted. Personally I don't care because I'm happy to be roosted by the mid pack 250's and I suspect the same would go if I was running with the 125's.
If you are offended KTM, I apologise and criticism of our governing bodies was nothing to do with the point of the discussion, merely that us lovers of old four strokes accept that our choice will never put us at the front of the 250 class but that's OK because we are still getting our jollies.
On the other hand, it is sad that a non discriminatory point of discussion cannot be made without being beaten down rather than openly talked about. What is there to be afraid of - change and harmony come from constructive discussion. If there were heaps of disgruntled 4 stroke riders I'm sure change would come about. There isn't and I don't believe anyone is animated enough on the topic to do anything about it, but you never know, this thread could take a surprising different path...but I hope not.
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Now back to talk about XR200's......
Does anyone know if a 1982 CR125 front fork and triple clamp would fit straight into an up to 1985 model XR 200?
Same goes with the rear shock. Is the CR shock longer and if so would it just bolt straight in?
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Yeah, that's how it runs in Queensland but common sense would have older 4 strokes in with 125 two strokes just like it was back in the 70's and 80's.
Really? Where were you allowed to ride a 250 4st with the 125s? That only happened when Yamaha bought out a powerful 250 4t that could run with the 250 2ts. Then somehow convinced MA to let them in with the 125s. thus stuffing the 125 class.
That someone was the Qld MX subcommittee who invented the Lites class. The Lites class was run in Qld for two years before it was in the MoMS. Even the AMA started running the class and used the name as well. When it was done first the 125 2/- & 250 4/- were compatible. If guys want larger capacity 4/-s in the 125 class well put in a rule change submission. But don't just whinge about it on forums or facebook.
I call B.S, the manuacturers lobby the AMA, FIM and all the other governing bodies to determine which class their bikes will be in. When the four strokes where first introduced there was still the standard 125,250 and open classes irrespective of engine style (2 or 4 stroke) All of a sudden the YZ 400 was dropped into the 250 class before anyone knew what happened, I've never seen a rule change introduced so fast as this, must have been alot of lobbying by Yamaha before these bikes came up for sale to the public...
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Dungog club in the early 80's ran under 200MX. I raced a Cagiva 190cc.(Received a few complaints about the 250 stickers).
A 4 stroke all powers was initiated at the same time, as the bigger guys in the club were starting to buy the 500-600's over 2T's.
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KTM were racing 400cc four strokes in AMA years before the YZ 400 came out. They just weren't competitive.
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....so does that mean that CR125 forks,triples and steering head bearings would slip straight into an XR?
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keep trying olmate ;D
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6 bikes makes a class..!!! and 4stroke all powers pre 90 is in the moms...
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1987 CR 125 triple clamps fit straight into 1982 XR 200r with only a 16 mm alloy spacer between top bearing & upper triple.
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Thanks Woodsy.