OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: evo550 on September 13, 2016, 08:14:11 pm

Title: Crank bearing.
Post by: evo550 on September 13, 2016, 08:14:11 pm
Currently chasing some bits for a Rotax 406 rebuild and have come across the crank bearings at $80 each for genuine !!!
the size is available at the local bearing shop for less than half the price, but the sales guy warned me that they may not be suitable for a two stroke crank application.
They are c3, 30x72x19, Des anyone know of other manufacturer that runs the same size crank bearings?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: pokey on September 13, 2016, 08:49:13 pm
23.6306C3   YAMAHA   SR500   1981-1982   SR 500 E / F / G / SP   Crank Bearings   30x72x19
23.6306C3   YAMAHA   YZ490   1982-1990   YZ490      30x72x19
23.6306C3   YAMAHA   XT200   All   XT200      30x72x19

http://www.bbimporters.com.au/search/index.php?step=5&make=YAMAHA&model=All&year=1982&category=Bearings+Crank

Should get you started on that
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: evo550 on September 13, 2016, 09:13:44 pm
Thank you kind sir...
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: Hoony on September 13, 2016, 09:17:44 pm
6306 is a very standard bearing, C3 clearance is what you need and you are good to go, should be in stock at ANY bearing service. assuming there is no circlips on outer or recesses

https://www.thebigbearingstore.com/6306-2rs-6306-zz-radial-ball-bearing-30x72x19/
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: evo550 on September 13, 2016, 09:25:38 pm
The Yammie ones come in at about $45 each, so sorry Rotax but not this time.
At $550 for a piston kit, pity I couldn't get on of these at the bearing shop...
Thanks gents.
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: Nathan S on September 14, 2016, 08:24:48 am
Any decent 6306 C3 bearing will work perfectly.
There's no magic to main bearings - the manufacturer specced a certain size, with a certain clearance - there's no invisible "2T main bearing spec" specification...
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: 80-85 husky on September 14, 2016, 08:47:36 am
depends how long you want them to last Nathan. chinese metallurgy is not yet up to speed in some bearing applications.
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: evo550 on September 14, 2016, 11:07:58 am
Any decent 6306 C3 bearing will work perfectly.
There's no magic to main bearings - the manufacturer specced a certain size, with a certain clearance - there's no invisible "2T main bearing spec" specification...
Thats what I thought, but the bearing guy said that even though the fitting dimensions are identical there can be a difference in how many bearings they can fit inside the race, some applications require larger /less bearings, some require more/smaller bearings....
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: Lozza on September 14, 2016, 12:00:49 pm
No way I would put a C3 crank main in a Rotax engine. Been there they will last less than 100km C4 with a polymide cage or a NJ series cylindrical roller

6306 C4 TN9 or NJ306 ECP/C4
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: FourstrokeForever on September 14, 2016, 07:29:25 pm
No way I would put a C3 crank main in a Rotax engine. Been there they will last less than 100km C4 with a polymide cage or a NJ series cylindrical roller

6306 C4 TN9 or NJ306 ECP/C4

And that's the difference right there!
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: evo550 on September 14, 2016, 07:52:44 pm
No way I would put a C3 crank main in a Rotax engine. Been there they will last less than 100km C4 with a polymide cage or a NJ series cylindrical roller

6306 C4 TN9 or NJ306 ECP/C4

And that's the difference right there!

It's what ATK spec'd
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: Lozza on September 14, 2016, 10:49:31 pm
I have yet to see C3's in crank mains in any Rotax engine
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: Nathan S on September 15, 2016, 08:11:25 am
depends how long you want them to last Nathan. chinese metallurgy is not yet up to speed in some bearing applications.

Which is why I used the word "decent"... :)
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: 80-85 husky on September 15, 2016, 05:15:55 pm
I missed that distinction, so quick to jump up and down in indignation ;D ;) my apologies
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: pokey on September 15, 2016, 06:23:39 pm
With a wrinkled brow my mind has developed a question. While i accept C4 are a better or upgrade from a C3 bearing in this situation.. yet yamaha and I presume most makers specify C3 for mains . what makes a rotax bottom end any better to warrant the use of C4? I havnt heard of many jap bikes having catastrophic bottom end failures and I assume they would do the same RPM and have the same loads as a rotax. What am i missing?
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: Lozza on September 15, 2016, 09:06:01 pm
With a wrinkled brow my mind has developed a question. While i accept C4 are a better or upgrade from a C3 bearing in this situation.. yet yamaha and I presume most makers specify C3 for mains . what makes a rotax bottom end any better to warrant the use of C4? I havnt heard of many jap bikes having catastrophic bottom end failures and I assume they would do the same RPM and have the same loads as a rotax. What am i missing?
Horse Power especially when the cases get hot . Many Japanese engines use C4 bearings OEM (Honda RS/Yamaha TZ), C3 are fine for road/trail engines but as soon as you push the envelope the C4 is the only option. The exception is the Aprilia RS 125 road bike (Rotax Type 122/123 engine) will run for less than 100km before the cage shits itself if you put C3's in. Don't ask me how I know that  ;) What makes a Rotax bottom end better, tighter tolerances and far better materials.

C5 were used in the old air cooled 100cc formula A kart engines what revved to 22,000 rpm
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: pokey on September 15, 2016, 10:31:47 pm
Soooo rotax bottom ends are fragile things, poorly engineered and are lousy at getting rid of heat ? ;)

i dont think anyone would disagree that if your chasing ultimate perf from an engine the best bearings are the way to go.
Thanks for the enlightenment lozza



Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: supermotomc on October 03, 2016, 10:02:06 am
so who wants a crank pot for a 406/
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: Momus on November 21, 2016, 12:12:10 pm
@Lozza.  Aprilia now recomend coconut oil premix for all their C3 main 2 strokes. 
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: smed on November 21, 2016, 03:08:02 pm
That would smell great :)
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: shelpi on November 21, 2016, 03:27:25 pm
makes me want to go to the beach and drink a martini out of a coconut
Title: Re: Crank bearing.
Post by: Mick D on November 21, 2016, 03:32:10 pm
Uumh. It does sound enticing. Perfume for the pillion.
Scent of Aprilia.