OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Lozza on May 10, 2016, 10:51:37 pm
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Never knew this until recently , that Japanese has a different standard for Phillips head screws called JIS. The JIS screw head has a very small corner radius and flat end compared to normal Phillips heads. Explains why it is so easy to munt one of the larger JIS head screws with a normal Phillips head screwdriver. Vessel and Hozan seem to be the main brands of JIS screwdrivers.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41dtK%2Bd9ZhL.jpg)
(http://www.crfadventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/screws_JIS_phillips_screwdriver_angle.jpg)
(http://www.agcoauto.com/content/images/fastener/screws_JIS_phillips_comparison.jpg)
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Your kidding me lozza? i knew that back in 74 that Suzuki used JIS . Couldnt at the time find a JIS set of screwdrivers though, tool shop just looked at me kind of like I was simple.
A good whack with a drift( old axle) before tapping in the closest size Philips has never seen me wrong. I do have one solitary JIS driver now that only comes out for pristine jobs.
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Japanese Industrial Standard, I think that's what the JIS stands for,
found this out a few years ago when working on Japanese Excavators.
Had trouble with matching some Hydraulic Hose fittings that looked like European metric fittings but just slightly different, spoke to someone at the Importers who told me fittings were JIS and that the Japanese have there own standard for all sorts of stuff {including the screwdrivers}
you would think the screwdrivers would be widely available with the amount of Japanese cars, bikes and other machinery about
but I gave up looking for the screwdrivers, good to see you found out some brands that sell them.
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well ive learnt something new today as ive always thought phillips head was universal no matter what country. i know theres a few different star types used in the tek screw industry though which are an 4 main points with another 4 shallow points inside which make it hard to use them without the correct driver.trust the japs to be different ;)
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I have a daggy old (Sidchrome I think) #2 Phillips I prefer to use because it fits better than most Phillips I have used for Jap hardware.
I have never given it much thought, other than that this particular driver is a better fit and does not cam out of the drive, it is probably a JIS like you say Lozza.
New lesson for me too and I have been tinkering with mechanics for 30 years.
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yeah i brought 2 of those green handled sidchrome #2 phillips head screwdrivers when i started my trade [since worn out many years ago] and they gripped well on jap bikes
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If it doesn't fit properly I don't use it ;)
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So basically, the JIS screw is designed to stop a correctly sized Phillips head driver seating properly, therefore increasing the chances of screw damage and leading to a small industry in Allen key screw sets in the '70s.
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So basically, the JIS screw is designed to stop a correctly sized Phillips head driver seating properly, therefore increasing the chances of screw damage and leading to a small industry in Allen key screw sets in the '70s.
yeah thats it we all did it,undo the nasty shite JIS screws with the impact driver or hammer and chisle and fitted allen head screws,thankfully yamahas had allen heads in them by 1976 and made life alot easier
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A good whack with a drift( old axle) before tapping in the closest size Philips has never seen me wrong.
I've been doing this since the early seventies, but used the "T" handle of a Philips head T bar. Not only does it restore most butchered heads when you tap the screwdriver back in, it shocks the galvanic bond that forms between the zinc plated thread and the aluminium it's screwing into, which is usually the cause of the head being butchered in the first place.
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A good whack with a drift( old axle) before tapping in the closest size Philips has never seen me wrong.
I've been doing this since the early seventies, but used the "T" handle of a Philips head T bar. Not only does it restore most butchered heads when you tap the screwdriver back in, it shocks the galvanic bond that forms between the zinc plated thread and the aluminium it's screwing into, which is usually the cause of the head being butchered in the first place.
If that doesn't work it's a munted head and out with the chisel it is. :D With the correct JIS screwdriver there's no need to whack the shit out the screw. Carb float bowl screws is a perfect example Point is I suppose is most of us blamed the "shit" screws when the screwdriver camed out and that is the end of the screw head. A small dot on the screw head indicates a JIS screw, glad to see I wasn't the only one oblivious to the fact :D
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More info: "The dot indicates JIS" Thanks Lozza
I'm going to be forced to re-evaluate the fact that I know everything. (Maybe now, I know everything. {pesky "unknown unknowns"})
At least I have a reason to buy a few more screw drivers. Where can I buy JIS drivers?
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A small dot on the screw head indicates a JIS screw
I thought the dot ment it was a Posidrive
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so how does posidrive fit in the picture.
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Posidrive different again. Cabinet makers know all about 'em. The screwdriver is like phillips but each internal corner has an extra 'external square rib' instead of the internal radius. The 'square' ribs fit into corresponding indents in the screw. Hard to describe, need a picture.
A posidrive screw is identified by a cross line stamped into the head - pretty much like the phillips screw in Lozzas initial post.
Posidrive screwdrivers are also great for butchering phillips screws! And vice versa, but good enough for screwing an appliance against the wall. :D
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I've been dressing Philips head screwdrivers and impact tool bits with a cutting disc in an angle grinder for a while. These days I'm mainly worried about getting the screws outso they can be rplced with a shcs or a reduced hex flange head bolt.
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well ive learnt something new today as ive always thought phillips head was universal no matter what country. i know theres a few different star types used in the tek screw industry though which are an 4 main points with another 4 shallow points inside which make it hard to use them without the correct driver.trust the japs to be different ;)
yep this is new to me too. it now makes sense why they do not fit snugly.
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If it doesn't fit properly I don't use it ;)
reminds me of a girl i met once
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im having difficulty believing you guys never knew about these things. ive checked the date and april is long gone. :o
yamaico use the same method as i do. first and every time a good wack with a drift which shocks the screw thread and tightens the head of the cross. then tap a phillips in and the screw comes out nicely no problem and you dont munt the head. actually can often fix a munted head. if it is still tight and the driver wants to slip out give it another wack with the drift as the thread is still sticking. if its tight after that even a correct JIS will want to walk out of the head.
Most of the jap case screws are fairly soft metal and the head squashes down easily. if you check my case screws they will all be perfect crosses with slightly flattened domes.
the only screws that MUST be undone with and only a JIS ive found are the counter sunk head screws.
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I never knew that, bugger me, might explain a few [1000] stuffed screw heads over the years. Thought only Phillips & Posi Drive. I always use a new Koken tip in an 8mm T bar if a problem & nearly always sorts it. plus tap the screw head to reshape it first, then smack the phillips tip in. Still got a hammer driver [impact driver] on the wall but seen a lot of damage done by those by the unwary--like the little countersunk screws on the small honda engine oil slinger end cover. [don't get me started] They do have a place though [the impact wrench].
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(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff310/skypig/image_19.jpeg) (http://s237.photobucket.com/user/skypig/media/image_19.jpeg.html)
Pozidrive slots and drives are parallel*, therefore less tendency to "cam out".
Identified by the extra "corners" between the main slots.
I find a posidrive driver can sometimes get out a worn Phillips (at the risk of rounding the driver)
*Phillips head slots and drives seem to be slightly tapered. Maybe only when they are slightly worn.
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im having difficulty believing you guys never knew about these things. ive checked the date and april is long gone. :o
yamaico use the same method as i do. first and every time a good wack with a drift which shocks the screw thread and tightens the head of the cross. then tap a phillips in and the screw comes out nicely no problem and you dont munt the head. actually can often fix a munted head. if it is still tight and the driver wants to slip out give it another wack with the drift as the thread is still sticking. if its tight after that even a correct JIS will want to walk out of the head.
Most of the jap case screws are fairly soft metal and the head squashes down easily. if you check my case screws they will all be perfect crosses with slightly flattened domes.
the only screws that MUST be undone with and only a JIS ive found are the counter sunk head screws.
Ive done all that many times with my trusty copper hammer sometimes it doesn't work and if it spins the head is munted. Especially on long case bolts that have been in situ for a while
(http://www.peterverdone.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/51l2LeFKrPL._SX342_1.jpg)
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next time i catch up with you Lozza i will give you a free demonstration. ;D
Am yet to see a dot on a suzuki screw and none on the late model KLR either. Would make it easier to recognise but i consider all Jap screws to most likely be JIS.
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(http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad360/tdee754/6a0e8c283877bfa637361a0308e96f53_zpsnind1wsv.jpg) (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/tdee754/media/6a0e8c283877bfa637361a0308e96f53_zpsnind1wsv.jpg.html)
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Shovel, spade.
Arse, elbow.
Check out Pokey's avatar
:)
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Picked up a set of these and they are a sheer delight to use even have an inbuilt impact driver, not that it's really needed ;)
CLICKY LINKY THINGY (http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/motorcycle-restoration-repair/motorcycle-repair-kit/flypage_sku.tpl.html)
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http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-tools/hozan-jis-screwdrivers-review/
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http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-tools/hozan-jis-screwdrivers-review/
That article was just what my OCD needed! :P
Bottom line, look for the DIN 5260 certification on your cross point driver and don't worry about the JIS anymore. 8)