OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Kawasaki => Topic started by: topari on April 24, 2016, 07:45:54 pm
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Just wondering if any KDX enthusiasts have upgraded the KDX200 internals ?
My observations:
1) the shim stack looks like it mostly orifice damping
2) the remote reservoir does not contain a piston or bladder just empty space ? So if I add 150PSI of N2 the gas and oil will probably mix ?
3) 14mm shaft and all steel body for a shock over 30 years old, it is in excellent condition.
4) the shocks mount upside down compared to other bikes.
I think a Gold Valve setup to suit would make a worthwhile difference.
Regards,
Tom
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1. Yeah, pretty much. A Gold Valve has to be an improvement.
2. Are you sure? Isn't there a floating piston in there?
3. Alloy body.
4. Yeah. Apart from all the dirt sitting on the seal, it's got a lot going for it.
An early Suzuki floater shock can be made to fit, and has vastly superior internals. I'm pretty convinced that the reason the Floater zooks were so well regarded in their day is because Suzuki had 46mm pistons and decent valve pistons with decent shim stacks, while the other Japanese manufacturers were pissing about with itty-bitty little shock bodies and primitive valving.
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1. Yeah, pretty much. A Gold Valve has to be an improvement. I think so.
2. Are you sure? Isn't there a floating piston in there? Positive, I cut one open.
3. Alloy body. No steel.
4. Yeah. Apart from all the dirt sitting on the seal, it's got a lot going for it. And rust.
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Where abouts did you cut it open? Are you sure the piston is not pushed to one end? I find it hard to believe this would be an emulsion shock.
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I will post some pictures. I cut it open about 20mm from the top. It is a sealed unit. Just a valve for the hose and a schraeder valve for the n2.
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Have you got the Clymer workshop manual ;)
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Have you got the Clymer workshop manual ;)
No.
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Well it tells you how to rebuild this shock. No need to work blindly.
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Thanks.
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I have rebuilt a couple of mine, they are very easy to do.
I haven’t done any modifications except Mrs KDX has a lowing kit installed.
We dont race for gold but we do heaps of vinduro, the rear suspension feels very good on both and the big difference came by installing the correct spring rates for us. Heavier springs are a bit hard to come by, you have to watch the diameter of them as they will rub on air intake boot.
The remote has a piston in it that needs to be set to the correct position when you fill the shock before you charge it.
I picked up a racetech remote with blader and valved adjustment that I am going to try on the next shock I have to rebuild, just got to get around to it.
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Tunes- I'm looking for a heavier spring for my 84 Kdx 200, 90kg rider - can you tell me what you found fitted?
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I used a racetech 5kg with collars but had to do something about it rubbing on the air thing. There is an ebach one that fits "BUT" it starts at 5.8kg.
I ended up getting two springs wound by king springs in QLD the same size as the original in the weight I wanted. They came in any colour you want that is yellow.
Im a few kgs heavier than you but only calculated my spring rates front and rear at a low rider level and enduro using the ractech calculator.
The 5kg spring only has about 7 mm of pre load on my shock to give me the right sag. The original spring with like about two inches of pre load was WAY too soft I think it was made for my eight year old.
The shocks are also only charged at the lower recommended pressure of the spec and filled with 5w oil. They have MSR or All Balls seal heads that are easy to get. The orings are easy to get from CBC bearings. The little one on the end of the adjuster shaft is a little tricky but shoiuldnt be to hard following the manual if you have one.
If you go a gold valve you will need someone to set up the washer stack unless your willing to trial and error it.
The final spring rate will depend on whatever your going to be riding, motorcross enduro trail ???
Rebuilt from head to toe the best money I have spent on my bike has been the money spent on suspension.
From a Vinduro perspective comfortable plushness with bottoming resistance makes it a pleasure to ride for two days. Its all about the wheel staying in contact with the ground over the terrain. VMX is a different thing and would want a stiffer setup.
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Steel body, no floating piston... Sounds like it's not a KDX200 shock.
Any photos?
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Found the camera. Picture is the insides of a reservoir. Next is the shock. There is no piston in the reservoir. Looks like an emulsion shock.
BTW I have 3 kdx200 shocks. Ebay specials :)
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu354/topari/DSCN0481%20Medium_zpsnkylodiu.jpg) (http://s663.photobucket.com/user/topari/media/DSCN0481%20Medium_zpsnkylodiu.jpg.html)
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The Clymer manual i looked at shows a floating piston for the 85 shock, tells you the depth to set it at, gas presure etc
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The Clymer manual i looked at shows a floating piston for the 85 shock, tells you the depth to set it at, gas presure etc
Do the pictures show the reservoir sealed ? All 3 of mine are sealed. Can only be opened with a hack saw.
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Yeah from what i could tell, i was just looking at the google preview (search KDX200 clymer manual) and 2 pages were missing. The reservoirs look like the early twinshock suzuki ones. Welded at each end and with a crappy plastic piston inside that often get stuck. Have you removed the valve and hose and stuck a screw driver or something through the hole to actually see if there is a piston you can push down ? Are you 100% sure that there is no piston hard up against one end of the reservoir?
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I will need to check.
According to the KDX200 manual, there is a free piston in the reservoir. Procedure is to use a push rod to position the piston 46mm from the bottom. In practise this means the hose removed from one end, and the schraeder value from the other. I guess I'd use the vernier to set the depth. 68ml of oil is added to the reservoir from the hose end and 167ml into the shock body. Then add N2 between 142 ad 213 psi. Factory setting is 142 psi.
I will check on the other shocks and report.
I will probably use argon to pressurise the shock. Have lots of it.
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You can push the piston back and forth in the reservoir with something blunt, and just measure it with the verniers.
I set the piston a bit closer to the shrader end and put the shock in the vice upside down so that i could bleed off the air and extra oil through the botom shock banjo bolt.
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Still confused about the shock body material - your photo looks like an alloy body?
Got a photo of the inside of the cap you cut off the reservoir?
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End cap, reservoir and some other bit.
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu354/topari/DSCN0484%20Large_zpswbqvdh9r.jpg) (http://s663.photobucket.com/user/topari/media/DSCN0484%20Large_zpswbqvdh9r.jpg.html)
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If anyone is interested in a group buy of heavier shock 83-85 shock springs pm me, I've got the details from tymes of who made - I spoke to them and they are happy to do another run - the more the cheaper.
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3. Alloy body. No steel.
Correction. Body is indeed alloy not steel. I tried the magnet test.
Big spring on order. Will be starting with some 7wt oil, based on recommendations from a tuning company.
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Big spring on order. Will be starting with some 7wt oil, based on recommendations from a tuning company.
Heavier viscosity oil will cause the suspension to have a harder feel over high speed compression damping like sharp edges. If your using it for enduro style riding? then it wont feel as plush over the harsh bumps where the suspension needs to compress quicker.
The adjustment on the top of the shock is for rebound only.
I have found the standard spec 5w oil and low end pressure range gives the bike a predictable smooth comfortable feel when it hits the bumps. No kicking of the rear. Bottoming out has not been a problem with the correct spring.
7w isn’t a big difference though.
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tymes, thank you.
I noticed on three of my shocks the top heim or spherical bearing is shagged. Kawasaki want about $100 for one. I went to local bearing company and found something similar for about $16. It needs a bit of fitting to match the shock head. Wonder what others have done? The heim bearing looks like a weak point in the linkage setup.
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kwaka engineered a "special" (i.e. we supply you pay..) bearing. I looked at getting a sleeve made to fit a std skf spherical. then I bought a husky and the Ohlin's spherical were $12 eat the local bearing shop
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I got some sphericals off ebay that fit but they were the same OD but not as wide. We have locktight them in there and they havent moved in the four shocks we are using them in between me and a friend of mine and we have had them in there for over a year. They were about 12 bucks each. Its the outer of them that isnt as wide and they have a nylon insert in them, none of ours have developed any play in them yet.
Wasp, how much do yous charge for the top spherical bearings that you stock? Also do you have the rubber bush for the bottom of the shocks? And Im interested in pricing a piston kit!
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Just to slow my rebuild progress, I find the 14mm shock shaft has a 1.25mm pitch. I want to buy some M14x1.25 nuts but no one has them >:(