OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: fireyglen on April 04, 2016, 03:08:10 pm
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Do you really have to fit the orings on the joining link its impossible to fit the clip.
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It is strongly advised to use the O-rings, but if you are trying to squeeze it all together by hand then you might find it challenging.
I assemble all the bits on the chain without the clip, then use a set of multi-grip pliers over the link at each end (beside the pins) to squash it all together so that the clip will fit. The outer link plate does sort of taper-fit onto the pins, and ends up holding itself in place so that you can fit the clip. Don't be too hard on the pressure or it will be over tight compared to the rest of the chain.
(http://www.superego.com.au/sites/default/files/styles/large_product/public/products/5220700.png?itok=bjbkObyS)
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definitely have to fit the o rings
I use a small nut on edge between the pins and compress with vise grips then slide in the clip..
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Use the end of a small ring spanner over the pins, then press with multigrips. It's real easy, or by a $10 plate press specifically for the job from any bike shop. You'll do a lot of swearing doing it the way you are.
K
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I use a very small $2 elcheapo G clamp, the cup on the end fits over the pin,works a treat.
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you should try it in the bush with the biked balanced on a blackboy and big 1 inch ants stalking us. stuff all tools (pliers and a screw driver) so a lump of quartz was used to bash the plate on....
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Leaving off the O-rings from the joiner makes the purchase of the O-ring chain a bit wasteful.
Do you cut your own chain? Do you intend owning motorbikes for the rest of your life? Do you like having the right tool for the job? If yes then shop around for a good chain breaker/ riveter. I think mine was about $150 so not cheap (but I've seen cheaper - I think Ballards Off-road have some) but it is great to use.
Most O-ring and X-ring chains have a shoulder each end of the link sleeve that the ring fits over, so long as you haven't moved the sleeve through the inner plates the rings shouldn't hinder putting on the outer joiner plate, it should only be the snug fit of the plate on the joiner pin. You have to push the plate on evenly to both pins, this is why a small tool makers vice (what I used to use) or one of the various chain tools are good.
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Job done the little nut and vicegrips trick did the trick.thanks.
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Call me old school but O-ring chains are pointless, if you can stretch a standard heavy duty chain in one race why glorify the pain by spending more on a O-ring one. If you are doing long runs on touring bikes then I can understand it but on high maintenance MX or enduro bikes what would be the point?
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I decided when o rings came out in the early 80's to fit one to my new kdx 250. I rode it a bit, adjusted it up a tad then went to the corner inlet enduro. ol mate on the new dx200 said "don't waste your money on those chains just get a good quality normal chain" he spent ~$50 against my $110 or so. my o ring chain was still on the bike when I sold it the following year.
old mate had to buy another chain after the corner inlet event and a set of sprockets and had to replace them all again two events later when he finally bought an o ring chain. "best thing since sliced bread " he told everyone after that...if a chain is going to be subjected to mud and or sand, get an o ring and your sprockets will last as long as the chain. the pins don't wear, the chain don't stretch and the sprockets don't hook. shimples....
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I decided when o rings came out in the early 80's to fit one to my new kdx 250. I rode it a bit, adjusted it up a tad then went to the corner inlet enduro. ol mate on the new dx200 said "don't waste your money on those chains just get a good quality normal chain" he spent ~$50 against my $110 or so. my o ring chain was still on the bike when I sold it the following year.
old mate had to buy another chain after the corner inlet event and a set of sprockets and had to replace them all again two events later when he finally bought an o ring chain. "best thing since sliced bread " he told everyone after that...if a chain is going to be subjected to mud and or sand, get an o ring and your sprockets will last as long as the chain. the pins don't wear, the chain don't stretch and the sprockets don't hook. shimples....
Ditto!
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I decided when o rings came out in the early 80's to fit one to my new kdx 250. I rode it a bit, adjusted it up a tad then went to the corner inlet enduro. ol mate on the new dx200 said "don't waste your money on those chains just get a good quality normal chain" he spent ~$50 against my $110 or so. my o ring chain was still on the bike when I sold it the following year.
old mate had to buy another chain after the corner inlet event and a set of sprockets and had to replace them all again two events later when he finally bought an o ring chain. "best thing since sliced bread " he told everyone after that...if a chain is going to be subjected to mud and or sand, get an o ring and your sprockets will last as long as the chain. the pins don't wear, the chain don't stretch and the sprockets don't hook. shimples....
Agreed John, I can only relate the story of my 1995 KTM620, it came with a DID X ring chain not long after they were released, I replaced it after 16,000 (sixteen thousand) kilometres not because it was worn out, more for insurance due to the remote rides I was doing, with another X ring chain of course! The chain I took off then served duty on my son's DR250 for several years, they are infinitely better than non o'ring heavy duty chains, you will never convince me otherwise.
Tony.
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Used quality non-O-ring chain until about five years ago, went through the constant crap of washing and boiling in grease (yep I still had a tin of chain grease from the sixties :o) and of course adjusting after every ride and putting up with worn out and hooked sprockets.
Always thought to myself those fools with O-ring chains are giving away horsepower.
Was really really wrong about O-ring chain.
Got one of these from flea Bay:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DID-520-VT-Gold-X-Ring-Narrow-Chain-suit-MX-Enduro-CRF250-450-KTM-SX250-EXC450/182062631311?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107090050%26meid%3D8296cf16d15d4ec782db23792c99254e%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D171734210694
So good they are almost "set and forget"
And sprockets seem to last and last
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So an O-ring chain is slightly heavier, and has slightly more drag.
Compared to the frictional losses of motor, clutch, gearbox, chain-onto-sprocket-teeth, wheel bearings, brake drag, etc, and the weight of all the rotational and non-rotational parts... Let's just say that if anyone says they can feel the difference between a plain chain and an O-rig one, I will call them a liar to their face.
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Small Bores Nathan thats where you WILL feel the difference.
Yeah good things O and X ring chains but they do come at a cost and they do have a bit more drag. there have been a few innovations over the years like Alloy sprockets and even nylon sprockets and they have their uses and their failings.
I run a 428 chain on my fun bike instead of the 520 and it does stretch but it gives the relatively low powered thing a little more edge. The smaller the HP and the more friction means theres just that little bit you dont have over your mate running the same but with less friction. Could make al the difference if a sheep station is involved.
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I hate non o-ring chains. Australia post/Honda refuse supply or allow o-ring chains for the NBC110. Have to fit OEM non o-ring chain that are pretty crap. Stretches and needs constant adjustment EVERY 2 weeks and they wear out very quick. For the old CT110's they did supply and allow fitment of DID O-ring chains and they were pretty much set and forget and did not need constant adjustment and lasted much longer. The new NBC110's are quite cheap and nasty to be honest. Lots of Indonesian made parts not the same build quality as the old CT110.
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Small Bores Nathan thats where you WILL feel the difference.
Yeah good things O and X ring chains but they do come at a cost and they do have a bit more drag. there have been a few innovations over the years like Alloy sprockets and even nylon sprockets and they have their uses and their failings.
I run a 428 chain on my fun bike instead of the 520 and it does stretch but it gives the relatively low powered thing a little more edge. The smaller the HP and the more friction means theres just that little bit you dont have over your mate running the same but with less friction. Could make al the difference if a sheep station is involved.
I know smaller-capacity road race guys can see the difference between a 428 and a 520, usually in terms of a few kph extra at the end of the straight.
But noticing the weight difference between a 520 O-ring vs a 520 plain in the dirt? Nup.
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the 400husky I bought in 2011 and started riding 2012 still had (I rekon) the std o ring chain on it. I still have it on after 3years and are looking at replacing this year. I haven't adjusted the chain.
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Yes your old school. try one you will be surprised. i to will never run a non o ring EVER again for the before mentioned reasons. the horse power loss (if any) is not an issue in the dirt world it all comes down to rider anyway, unlike road racing where deep pockets and loads of cash = results.
Call me old school but O-ring chains are pointless, if you can stretch a standard heavy duty chain in one race why glorify the pain by spending more on a O-ring one. If you are doing long runs on touring bikes then I can understand it but on high maintenance MX or enduro bikes what would be the point?
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I know smaller-capacity road race guys can see the difference between a 428 and a 520, usually in terms of a few kph extra at the end of the straight.
But noticing the weight difference between a 520 O-ring vs a 520 plain in the dirt? Nup.
Aprilia RSW 250 has a very expensive ($500) and special Regina 415 chain with extra wide side plates. On an Aprilia RS 125 road bike a 520 feels like a dragging handbrake compared to a 415. The O or X ring is worth the extra in off road.
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Please forgive my comment, I'll bob up when I have something learned to add
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I dont think anyone was having a go Drums'n fins, more trying to provide an insight. Does a chain stretch or does dirt get into the rollers and wear the chain?
Just asking because I dont know.
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dirt wears the pins and bushes allowing the chain pitch to increase. this wears the sprockets more at the top and hooks them over. get an old std chain and lay it out on concrete. pull it along by the end and mark the position of the ends. then push 1 end gently back toward the other end keeping it all straight. it will shorten by a cm or two as the pin wear is pushed back on it self. o rings don't do this. the rollers wear through and fly off, the pins become partially seized, but the pins never stretch. your sprockets stay in shape till the teeth wear through
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Please forgive my comment, I'll bob up when I have something learned to add
No, nobody's having a swing at you drums'n fins but there is a lot of warm air around about this and O rings on a dirt bike are definitely the way to go, almost set 'em and forget 'em. The utterly and absolutely miniscule hp drag of an O ring is way more than offset by the longevity and reliability of the chain.
In fact it is much more important that your countershaft sprocket is bigger than 14 teeth, any smaller and you are throwing hp out the window trying to turn the chain through a too-tight curve. 8)
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Please forgive my comment, I'll bob up when I have something learned to add
no having a go mate, just lending my take on it with my sense of humour hence
the old school bit.
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I lube my o ring chain before every race , I rather use a bit of crc or wd 40 to stop some drag
I don't like the real sticker lube makes the dirt stick more and acts like a grinding paste.
You can notice just pushing a bike with a o ring and spinning the back wheel on a stand .
Just buy two bobs .
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dirt wears the pins and bushes allowing the chain pitch to increase. this wears the sprockets more at the top and hooks them over
What, like this ? ;D
(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag23/kdxGeoff/1506621_1549731925278190_3832680167860303763_n_zpsopfsodi5.jpg) (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/kdxGeoff/media/1506621_1549731925278190_3832680167860303763_n_zpsopfsodi5.jpg.html)
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dirt wears the pins and bushes allowing the chain pitch to increase. this wears the sprockets more at the top and hooks them over
What, like this ? ;D
(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag23/kdxGeoff/1506621_1549731925278190_3832680167860303763_n_zpsopfsodi5.jpg) (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/kdxGeoff/media/1506621_1549731925278190_3832680167860303763_n_zpsopfsodi5.jpg.html)
;D that's fine Geoff just keep
The chain real tight and it won't slip :o
I Have seen some guys over in nz turn the sprocket around the other way when the teeth start laying
over . But then they snap off , looks like this pic hes tryed to get his money worth out of that sprocket ;D
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I am one of the believers in not lubing my chain on race day - but well and truly lubed before the day - doing it on race day just opens up the grinding paste argument.
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is not an issue in the dirt world it all comes down to rider anyway, unlike road racing where deep pockets and loads of cash = results.
They don't ride themselves around the track :D
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With a bit of patience, a number of carbide bits and a dremel, I reckon you could resurrect that Geoff.
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I have resisted the temptation to use an o ring chain on a VMX bike.. but still use the "old school" "Linklife" style of boiling the chain .. it worked back then and it still works now.. don't have to adjust the chain on a race day..nor lube it either..