OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Momus on March 03, 2016, 03:39:58 pm

Title: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: Momus on March 03, 2016, 03:39:58 pm
After deciding I didn't want to pay the 10 to 20k being asked for decent Pre70 twins I've acquired  an XS650.                                                                                                                                             

 I am looking at building a metisse replica rather than using the sow's ear Yammy frame. I know there are various replica frames available that are flame bronzed, TIG bronzed and welded: my question is are the welded frames regarded as kosher?
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: sleepy on March 04, 2016, 10:59:31 am
How much would you be prepared to pay for a replica Metisse MK3 frame built with Moly tube or a cheaper alternative made with steel tube?
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: Tim754 on March 04, 2016, 01:38:12 pm
Momus give Wasp a call he has some experience with XS650 hybrid :)
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: bazza on March 04, 2016, 04:04:43 pm
what happened to the Guru on here a couple of years ago who was going to make them in China?? :P :P :P
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: William Doe on March 04, 2016, 04:22:05 pm
Mike i think he is now hillary clintons campaign manager  ;)
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: Gippslander on March 04, 2016, 04:47:06 pm
yep - he is "framing" Hillary now.....  :P
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: Momus on March 04, 2016, 05:56:16 pm
How much would you be prepared to pay for a replica Metisse MK3 frame built with Moly tube or a cheaper alternative made with steel tube?

Mk 4 is the one I want for Pre70 apparently. What sort of coin are you talking about for each type?
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: sleepy on March 05, 2016, 12:04:09 am
How much would you be prepared to pay for a replica Metisse MK3 frame built with Moly tube or a cheaper alternative made with steel tube?

Mk 4 is the one I want for Pre70 apparently. What sort of coin are you talking about for each type?

I know someone that has a jig for the MK3's but as for the cost I have no idea how long it would take to build one but I have the job of Brazing 2 together for the owner of the jig when the time comes. The steel option would be easier and cheaper but the wall thickness of the tube would need to go up a little, perhaps 2mm CDS tube work ok. 
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: Bamford#69 on March 05, 2016, 01:13:15 pm
Hi, Australia is littered with people ("Gunnas") who are going to build a Metisse VMXer , or build a Metisse  frame, or know a mate who has a jig to build one, but when you do the sums , they still would cost a lot of money to just build a
 replica replica, with a unknown resale,  just buy a real one to start with ,
 
Just Bikes, latest ,has an add for a new frame, page 35.
cheers   
 
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: bazza on March 05, 2016, 09:04:04 pm
Mike i think he is now hillary clintons campaign manager


Bill does that make Bill Clinton the "first lady"? or presidential bitch?? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: Momus on March 05, 2016, 10:15:49 pm
Hi, Australia is littered with people ("Gunnas") who are going to build a Metisse VMXer , or build a Metisse  frame, or know a mate who has a jig to build one, but when you do the sums , they still would cost a lot of money to just build a
 replica replica, with a unknown resale,  just buy a real one to start with ,
 
Just Bikes, latest ,has an add for a new frame, page 35.
cheers

Mate.. If I wanted an opinion on procrastinators, the impecunious and your thoughts on overly ambitious frame builders stymied by their lack of talent I'd ask about that.
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: FAT-TOY on March 05, 2016, 10:39:51 pm

   There may be a couple of dreamers on this forum but I don't think Marcus would fall into the ( "Gunna") catagory.  I would say that if a man with his talents decides to build a replica frame then it will be built and it would be right.
    Zane
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: Momus on March 06, 2016, 12:29:16 am
Thank you Zane.

I have seen several Rickman style frames that are welded rather than brazed.  In the unusual absence of vociferous opinion on a VMX rule question posed here and the lack of a damning precedent  I have started work on the frame and have decided to do it from TIG welded 1.25" x 065" chrome-moly.
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: FourstrokeForever on March 06, 2016, 08:40:56 am
Good stuff Marcus. I can't foresee anybody questioning the eligibilty of your frame if it is made to the same spec as an original Metisse. No body is concerned about the MK3 frames and to all intent, they are replica frames.

When you finish the Metisse frame, how about knocking out a 1979 or '80 C&J frame or 2.....
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: geoff on March 06, 2016, 10:51:23 am
 There is nothing wrong with a nice tig welded Metisse type frame and they are very strong. I bought one several years ago off a guy in Holland and it has been  well used . I also had a bronze welded Rickman frame off Don Newall  and that was well made (It just last year won the pre 65 title at the Nationals) So I reckon its what ever turns you on.
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: jimg1au on March 06, 2016, 12:33:11 pm
This is where it gets strange you say that you bought a Rickman frame from Don I think he sells metisse frames
There is three makers/sellers in the uk almost selling the same thing you don't have to go through Don to buy frames as Rickman in Stroud uk will sell you what you want and ship it to you direct
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: Bamford#69 on March 06, 2016, 01:24:34 pm
Hi, I wonder what size motor a Rickman  Mk3 frame was designed  to have in it  ?
     ""               "'                                   Mk3A         ""                  ""
     ""               ""                                   Mk4           ""                  ""
 just saying , cheers.
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: geoff on March 06, 2016, 03:25:30 pm
Hi Jim,... A slip of the pen (or finger) I should have said a Mkiii  Rickman Metisse. It was fitted with a Matchless G 85 CS motor.
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: Momus on March 07, 2016, 07:21:36 am
Good stuff Marcus. I can't foresee anybody questioning the eligibilty of your frame if it is made to the same spec as an original Metisse. No body is concerned about the MK3 frames and to all intent, they are replica frames.

When you finish the Metisse frame, how about knocking out a 1979 or '80 C&J frame or 2.....

That is pretty much how it seems to go with the Metisse frames. The Rickmans apparently made 17000 or so frames and there are replicas thrice removed being made.
It doesn't hurt to ask- my unfamiliarity with Pre70 was total up unti a few weeks ago and it wouldn't have been a complete suprise to find that frame jointing method was an issue. 79 or 80 H C&J would be a good Evo thing. There was a bloke from the Bendigo club at theRavo  Classic Nationals on one that he was leaping easily as far and high as the moderns.

Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: FourstrokeForever on March 07, 2016, 09:02:56 am
That was Sam Davies on Mark Waterhouses's C&J Honda at Ravo and yes, he showed the majority of the 2 strokes the way around the track, until he shattered the rear wheel. Then he blew the gearbox to bits. Seems old 4 strokes don't like to be flat changed and banged into gear with no mercy!

The C&J was my favourite bike at the Nats.
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: Momus on March 12, 2016, 01:25:07 am
That was Sam Davies on Mark Waterhouses's C&J Honda at Ravo and yes, he showed the majority of the 2 strokes the way around the track, until he shattered the rear wheel. Then he blew the gearbox to bits. Seems old 4 strokes don't like to be flat changed and banged into gear with no mercy!

The C&J was my favourite bike at the Nats.
Not suprised that he broke the box and wheel Mark.  He was comfortably tripling the jump sequence on the finish straight.
Do you have any details on the C&J frame- tube diameters and guages front geometry?
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: FourstrokeForever on March 12, 2016, 08:59:51 am
Not at this point in time I don't Marcus, but I will endevour to find out.
Title: Re: Metisse Pre70 replica frame build.
Post by: yamaico on March 12, 2016, 11:06:52 am
Thank you Zane.

I have seen several Rickman style frames that are welded rather than brazed.  In the unusual absence of vociferous opinion on a VMX rule question posed here and the lack of a damning precedent  I have started work on the frame and have decided to do it from TIG welded 1.25" x 065" chrome-moly.

Marcus,
Please post progress photos of the build.
Thanks,
Pete.