OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vinduro => Topic started by: Gday on February 10, 2016, 02:25:48 pm
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Vintage Class for A4DE.
With the ISDE introducing a Vintage class for 2016 ( last two days, 30 year old bikes- tbc), I’m wondering what rider support there would be here for a similar arrangement for A4DE. I understand from Chris Bray, the 2016 organiser, that it was considered , but at this stage, not included it, mainly because they didn’t want to have a special course suitable for the vintage bikes. I wouldn’t have thought this was needed, more of an issue with the riders making it not the bikes. Cost might be an issue considering the entry for the full four day is around $700, plus comp license, transponder…..I imagine the entry for two days will still be a fair wack. Europe obviously has a healthy comp vinduro scene already, with enough numbers to support a Vintage ISDE class. He said if there is enough genuine interest to support the effort then it could go back on the table. What do you think?
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I thought about this, having ridden the 4 day regular in my youth.
My first issue being. I was the second last rider one year and too say the course was a bit cut up and rough would be an understatement. So if the Vintage class is last off I would not ride.
Perfect would be if we used the course on different days ( but I bet this would make an man power issue)
Costs , If it's going to cost many thousands and I guess it's going to be not cheap , thats allot of bang for buck I can get elsewhere.
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My 2 cents worth
Having ridden the 2014 four day in Masters at the tail end of the field as rider 217, I can tell you that any special tests, single trail or soft dirt (ie not hard pack) is fu#ked by the time you get to it, first time. Ruts, ruts and more ruts followed by whoops......you get the picture.
Then there is the amount of times you travel over the same piece of ground, by day three the depth of the ruts is amazing, you wouldn't think it possible to get a bike through them. The field might run through a piece of ground 6 or 7 times over the event. You spend your time taking alternate lines to jump over the ruts. Don't get me wrong, its not all doom and gloom, some riding is bound to be great, as it was in 2014. And yes, I could have ridden my Evo enduro bike around the circuit. Though I remember hitting a nasty v-dip on 2 separate days and thinking I'd be in orbit if I was on a vintage bike :)
Nathan made it in 2014 on his KDX, it would be interesting to get his perspective.
The entry fee is just a small part of the cost to ride a four day..... riding gear, tyres, parts, fuel, yarda yarda yarda. You can trail ride the cross country / sprint series, as a tail end Charlie, for reduced cost, they might offer that?
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Really, it's a difficult proposition. The course cuts up badly, so you'd want to run at the front of the field, but that is not a realistic option for the organisers.
Similarly, the first two days would be better than the last two (depending on how the course was set out). This would mean missing out on the final moto.
The time schedule would have to be much looser for the typical Vinduro rider, especially if we ran at the back of the field.
I dunno. I just see the event as being too big and too inflexible to be easily modified to suit the typical/slightly harder edged Vinduro rider.
It's appeal to me is that it is a real challenge, and you're part of something big. I know I'm an outlier on the first, and shortening it takes away from the second.
I plan (but am not committed) to ride the 2016 event on my 88 KX125 (just to prove how brain damaged I am...).
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Further thought:
Given the relatively poor response to club level competitive Vinduros, and how few Vinduroists compete in modern enduros, I would be surprised if there was enough interested parties to make this float.
I would LOVE to be wrong on this. I would love to be one of ten or fifteen lunatics ripping it up on old bikes. I'm just not sure that there's ten of us who have the desire AND the means (inc time off work, etc).
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All good comments- will be interested to see how it works at the six day. Here's some info just posted on the six day site-
http://www.fim-isde2016.es/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/vintage-trophy-regulations.pdf
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ol mate and I were all set to do the four day this year on the 85 twin shocker husk's until they brought it forward from sept to May. im on a job that will still be going in may and its too soon to 1, get in shape, 2 rebuild the clutch and top end and 3 sort the details required tyres / chain and sprocks etc etc etc. was just going to go in the event and aim to finish.
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Cessnock club has confirmed to
me via their Facebook page that they will be including a vintage class in the 2018 four day next Easter. Details to come.????
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VERi has been in discussions with the organisers about a vintage class at the 2018 A4DE for a little while now.
We're pretty excited about this. More news to come as details are confirmed.
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Regs are out and nominations open.
http://www.a4de.com.au/index.php
This Fb link has some more info
https://www.facebook.com/groups/352260465193447/permalink/387053635047463/
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Vintage Entry cap is 50 riders- 38 remaining . Rider Over 45, bike pre 86.
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im keen but need to check with her indoors who is away for the weekend...ill bet the 50 is up before she shows up >:(
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$700 :-\ entry fee will pull up a few
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$700 :-\ entry fee will pull up a few
And several times that again in preparing for it, for the serious only
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That does include a rego permit for the event, still spots are filling. They may get yo 50 starters. The format is looking interesting with slightly shorter days so you can watch some tests and do a few less miles.
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Copy Pasted from Facebook
Ok the Regs are now available for the vintage class in next years A4DE in Cessnock, there hasn’t been much said so far regards this class from the club so far and for good reason in that that nothing had been confirmed, we knew what we wanted and what we now have is a very good workable compromise between all parties involved that pretty much allows everyone of or approaching a vintage age with what the FIM have ruled as a vintage bike can have a ride.
So if I can start off by explaining a few things that may help clear up some negativity harbored by the minority out there.
Firstly this is not a Vinduro, it is also not a vintage 4day, it is a support class for the A4DE that is peripheral to the event the idea was born from a want to celebrate 40 years of A4DE and how to go about that, The Cessnock club held the first 4day, were now going to hold the first vintage class in a 4day, were trying our best to incorporate something new at the last minute, so bear with us,
We spoke with as many people as we could find associated with Vinduro to first get a feel if we could get enough riders to do the class justice, our hope is that this will carry on to next year’s 4day and so far everyone involved top to bottom is very enthusiastic about that idea, however the brief was to keep it simple so it had the best chance of success and support the A4DE.
It had to be a celebration of what John Hall started and what all the clubs over the years with limited resources and a handful of key members have managed to pull off year after year to get us to this point.
So in brief the Vintage class incorporates two classes,
The 78 er’s:
As many of the original riders from the 1st 4day preferably on period pre 80 enduro bikes for the John Hall memorial trophy.
If you rode the 79 event your still in with a chance but preference will be given to the class of 78.
Pre1986 and 45yrs and over:
Enduro bikes only, no converted mx bikes, this is a celebration of past Enduro’s the VMX guys have their own successful series.
We wanted riders of the age that would have ridden these bikes up to 86 when they were new and used to own one, which when you get your calculator out is about 50yr’s and over, this was thrown around a bit, we listened to our collaborators and finally settled on 45yrs and over to open the class up a bit.
So if you owned a new pre 86 enduro bike when you were 12, well done, I’m sure you went on to achieve great things.
Pre 1986 is the FIM’s last class and what they call evolution, if you take the time to read through the FIM’s Vintage Trophy class extensive and detailed eligibility regulations regarding the five classes, what carbie what type of ignition, exhaust and suspension length is allowed you will see just how complex it is.
That is not what this event is about and we simply do not have the resources to manage that many extra classes or manage the people who would try to challenge that amount of detail, “everyone’s an expert”, above all this is designed to be as sociable and as achievable as possible.
This pre 86 class will allow as many as possible to ride, some will be disadvantaged by there older bikes but we know that most will not be trying for a trophy they will simply be there to take part, enjoy the feeling of reliving past times, meet up with old friends and if you nail just one corner or one hill climb in the four days then it was all worth while.
All vintage riders will ride together at the back of the field, we will be last to leave each day and first to finish.
When you enter you can nominate who you want to ride with so a bunch of mates can ride together.
The timing for this class will be easier and inflated similar to our aging physiques.
The course will be less than the main event, well under a hundred km’s each day with a couple around the 75km mark and were trying to get everyone back to the Parc Ferme in time so you can see the first of the riders from the main event start the final special test of the day at the showground.
The course is not all hardcore single trail there’s a fare bit of dirt road and four wheel drive tracks between special tests.
The first day will be relatively easy on the trail.
The A4de DNF rule applies to us so you can restart each day even if your out of the results, we want to do everything we can to get as many vintage bikes to the final motocross as possible and remember it’s only really 3.5 days.
Were trying to be enthusiastic and easy going about this as possible but there has to be a line in the sand at some point.
Some run on models will be accepted, were not going to put up a list of bikes, let me know what you have and we’ll do our best to be fare and accommodate you within the rules.
On that point study the A4de regulations and MOMS, they all apply to us as well.
So be positive support this class so it goes on to be a success that is attractive to the next club to hold the A4DE, with more time and some Positive feedback it can only get bigger and better.
If you cant ride help your mate ride and be a part of it, if you cant ride and your vintage bike is registered use it to ride around and watch the special tests, were after as many older enduro bikes kicking around as possible.
If you cant ride because your under 45 or your bike is late 80’s early 90’s ride the main event, you’ll get a hell of a lot of respect and probably wont be last. !!
More often than not Life gets in the way.
Be involved this may never happen again.
Be involved so there’s every chance it will happen again.
Deeds Raymond
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$700 entry fee I was going to have a crack at it but not that sort for money they can stick that fee were it fits
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Nearly full ( 7 spots left of the 50 available) after less than 4 days .
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Vintage class fully subscribed which is awesome to see. Obviously old bikes & blokes are still keen.
K
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$700 entry fee I was going to have a crack at it but not that sort for money they can stick that fee were it fits
$608 for 4 days
$152 per day
Looks like pretty good value to me
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ill be part of the "B" group...be there when they go out and be there when they come back ::)
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Vintage class fully subscribed which is awesome to see. Obviously old bikes & blokes are still keen.
K
That's great, now I can stop procrastinating
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Bugger I was keen as for this but did not get in. Procrastination got the better of me and underestimating the demand for this. I figured the keen as guys guys would drop off around thirty. I had truck rego and bike rego in the last two weeks , plus bike parts and the bank account was hurting witch made me think twice. I hope all those entered enjoy themselves and conditions are perfect.
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For those who missed out , you can put your name down on the waiting list , just go to the nomination page and click the waiting list tab and enter your details .
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More than happy to put my hand up and wait. I still have to pay $700 just to go on the wait list bites me too much. More than happy to pay within 24 hrs of my entry being accepted thou
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I wonder what bikes people will ride and if it will be mostly newest allowable mid 80's stuff? Hopefully some 70's bikes get ridden.
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I wonder what bikes people will ride and if it will be mostly newest allowable mid 80's stuff? Hopefully some 70's bikes get ridden.
I have entered on my 1979 Yamaha IT175F.
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I will be on a Husky 82wr250
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I tried to enter earlier in the week, but it was fully subscribed, so I have put my name on the waiting list. If I get a ride, I will ride my 1978 Husky 390 Auto, which I rode in the 79, 80 and 81 4 days. If I don't make the main event I have been in tough with the orgainsers and will just have to content myself with a ride in the Demo Event on the final day.
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That's great, now I can stop procrastinating
What's even greater is now I can tell everyone I was "gunna" do it but missed the boat! ;D
Seriously though, it's great to see the vintage class take off like this.
Tex
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So now that the 50 spots are taken (other than late cancellations), who is going to spectate?
It looks as though 80-85 Husky and myself will be attending.......
Tony.
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How good is this. 8) 8)
Class full with awesome times ahead to join in the 40th celebration.
Wish i was going to have a look.
Can't wait to see celebration photos and one day hear the lasting stories for many years to come.
Congratulations all 8) 8)
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From the adb fb site
http://adbmag.com.au/editorial/enduro-legend-dick-burleson-confirmed-2018-a4de/
ENDURO LEGEND DICK BURLESON CONFIRMED FOR 2018 A4DE
Enduro legend, winner of 8 ISDE Gold Medals, 8 AMA National Enduro Championships, 60 National Enduro wins in the USA Dick Burleson is riding the Vintage Class at the 2018 Australian 4-Day Enduro.
In 1980, only four years after the inaugural event, Burleson was the first international rider to compete in the A4DE. He claimed the win and in 2018 he’s coming back for another ride to help celebrate the 40th anniversary of this prestigious event.
Phil Lovett will be hosting Burleson during his visit and the search is now on for the bike that Dick rode in 1980. It was a 1980 Husqvarna WR250 and if anybody knows its whereabouts please get in touch with Geoff Udy [email protected]
It would be fantastic to reunite Dick Burleson with this piece of Australian enduro history if possible. It may still have the scrutineering markings from 1980 on the engine cases, rims and hubs, a splotch of paint with the riding number 1 scratched in it. The registration number plate was QS-027 as can be seen in the picture of Burleson leading the parade of competitors through Cessnock prior to the start in 1980.
The support for the Vintage class, riders over 45 and bikes up to 1986 has been phenomenal and all places are now taken. Riders can still enter, though, and go on a waiting list to replace any who may not be able to attend. If other classes don’t reach full capacity then that may open the way for more Vintage Class entries.
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(https://s13.postimg.org/vlwwf04wn/1979-_A4_DE.jpg)
Norm Watts, winner of 1978 A4DE, refuelling at the 1979 event. Geoff Udy with PE250 on far right of picture.
Photo taken by Peter Drakeford.
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the shox arnt stuck down on Norms bike???
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It looks like at least 2 riders who missed out on vintage class at 2018 A4DE are going to ride their old bikes anyway:
Michael Turner, NSW, Yamaha IT250 (Masters)
Kevin Cameron, NSW, Suzuki PE400 (Veterans)
Maybe they were always planning to ride these bikes in a modern class anyway? Anyway, best of luck to 'em!
Tex
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i was planning to come up and ride the husky around for a few days but a new job has me by s & c's
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Not vintage, but Josh Ballard is riding a Yamaha TTR250 in the Enduro 1 class!
Tex
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"SCMCC ConondaleVinduroSprint" Classic A4DE Club Team.
(https://i.imgur.com/mQmX0wt.jpg)
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Vintage class stats:
Can am 3
Honda 4
Husqvarna 19!
Jawa 1
Kawasaki 3
Ktm 6
Maico 7
Montessa 1
Suzuki 4
Swm 3
Vespa 1
Yamaha 15
Act 4
Nsw 23
Qld 16
Sa1
Uk 3
Vic 18
Wa 2
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Vintage class stats:
...
Vespa 1
I saw the Vespa listed. Can anyone explain what exactly it is?
Tex
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Taking the piss maybe
http://a4de.com.au/index.php/notice-board/62-2018-vintage-a4de-riders
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Chris Bullen Vintage NSW Vespa Delux 125 1982
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I spotted Elle Knowles and Alison Parker attending this years event
. Was there any female riders back in 78 ??
cheers A
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she was on my wall.... ;) Elle
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Vespa = KTM504 :)
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504 in "stealth" mode eh...(watching too much Netflix :D)
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Best of luck to all the VERi members and everyone else competing in the Vintage Class of the 2018 A4DE starting tomorrow.
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Ballards out yesterday with a buster gear thinga me.
Udys lovin the PE performance
Alan Makin has rebuilt his Husqvarna and on a roll.
Rob Shoemaker and teams are neat as a pin and staying clean up front.
Steve Davis KTM runs very sweetly.1st kick.
Peter Drakeford,Mike Jaeger and Mike Harding are running mid pack.
Social media, mylaps and #A4DE are right at the door delivering the action.
Congratulations to all involved
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Would be good if you can post the results on here.
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I'm not 100% sure that these are the final results, but they look like it:
https://speedhive.mylaps.com/Sessions/4781148#byClass
Tex
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Drakie wasn't running mid pack, he was in fact leading...
...leading the dnfers as he ran out of fuel on day one :o
From what I heard it turned into everyone's worst nightmare due to of having to ride over a very chopped up track due to 300 or so moderns that went before them.
As per typical four days only the fit and fast survived but I tips my hat to all that tried.
1 366 Ricky Madden
2 338 Andrew Dennett
3 376 Ashley Sprenger
4 342 Andy Elliott
5 336 Jeff Dawson
6 361 John Liddell
7 372 Deeds Raymond
8 371 Craig Ralph
9 353 Jamie Harrison
10 331 Chris Bullen
11 380 Brendan Walsh
12 321 Terry Allen
13 369 Bryan Noble
14 324 Martin Baker
15 348 Sean Hamilton
16 358 Steve Juzva
17 373 Allan Rich
18 374 Noel Schulz
19 352 Spencer Harrison
20 320 Matthew Adamson
21 357 Glenn Johnson
22 379 Geoff Udy
23 344 Grant Franklin
24 332 Mark Carruthers
25 365 William Lynagh
26 328 Murray Billiau
27 323 Stephen Baker
28 355 Mick Jaeger
29 335 Steven Davis
30 349 Chris Hampson
31 325 John Ball
32 329 Mark Boddy
33 333 Peter Cave
34 385 Cliff Maggs
35 350 Mike Harding
36 327 Ross Bedford
37 367 Alan Makin
38 364 Geoff Ballard
39 362 Wayne Litzow
40 377 Rick Stevenson
41 343 Dean Fisher
42 339 Lindsay Donai
43 375 Darren Smart
44 382 Mark Williams
45 330 Gary Brown
46 381 Mark Waterhouse
47 378 Murray Tainton
48 370 Stephen Phillips
49 363 Brian Litzow
50 360 James Lawry
51 356 Colin Jay
52 354 Lee Hodges
53 351 Colin Harper
54 340 Peter Drakeford
55 334 Greg Curley
56 322 Lawrie Asgill
57 345 Phillip Glasson
58 384 Colin Woods
59 337 Glenn Day
60 341 Matthew Dwyer
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Monday's issue was sorted out again and Mark Carruthers officially finished.
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I see that Michael Turner managed a respectable finish in the Masters (modern) class on his IT250, well done that man!
Tex
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Well done to everyone that entered and extra well done to the finishers. Looking at the youtube clips I am sort of glad that I procrastinated and didn't get an entry in on time. Hot very dry conditions are tough on new bikes so no doubt a lot of the vintage class bikes will need some love to freshen them up afterwards. It's a hard call for organizers to make everyone happy and were else can you put the vintage class if not behind the moderns?
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Any ride reports? Anyone willing to share their experience?
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Any ride reports? Anyone willing to share their experience?
Plenty of stories, videos and pics... all on Facebook. :-\
Tex
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http://www.mcnews.com.au/a4de-2018-cessnock/
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I am waiting on a usb with a heap more photos. Here's a few I took.
It was a really well run 4day. It has been about 25Yrs since I rode a 4Day some things have changed but not as much as I thought it had. It was tough.
I think it was great the way they didn't let us off. If we had been just sent out to the STs on the road than back again I & even my mates that didn't make it would have been pissed off. If we had done that I'm sure Daniel Milner would not have mentioned us at the presentation night. We were treated as a A4DE Class. You can’t ask more than that. Shame the MC press don't see us that way.
(https://i.imgur.com/QhkqySz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yjTOZY4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4moyy10.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uKgygzg.jpg)
The winning XR
(https://i.imgur.com/aqDbEH8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kWXY1v8.jpg)
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Some VERi members at the 2018 A4DE.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/al1f3ju8n/IMG_0287.jpg)
Sean Hamilton performs some last minute adjustments the day before the event commences. Photo by P Drakeford.
(https://s5.postimg.cc/71fhdxmfr/P1080808.jpg)
Colin Harper, Mark Waterhouse, Steve Juzva and Peter Drakeford all looking confident on Day 1. Photo by D Britt.
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(https://i.imgur.com/GuNBBjV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zw6GLRa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fl3Fo0L.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EJfdTL1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/huOLHT8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QhkqySz.jpg)
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The 3 clubs put on a great 4day and as much as it hurt I think it was great the way they didn't let us off. If we had been just sent out to the STs on the road than back again I & even my mates that didn't make it would have been pissed off. If we had done that I'm sure Daniel Milner would not have mentioned us at the presentation night. We were treated as a A4DE Class. You can’t ask more than that.
Unlike most of the mainstream bike media! Ricky Madden won the vintage class! he raced it as hard as any of the riders in the other classes not that you would know from the mainstream bike media even the MA website had nothing. We 57 riders paid the same entry fee, followed the same rules, just like the other classes some guys raced it others rode to finish. The least the media could do is give the results of our class in the articles about the event, even just acknowledge we were there.
It was a great week for Vinduro racing in Australia.
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https://enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/3183-a4de-2018-in-cessnock-recap-video
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Didnt see a vintage bike in that....
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Win news
“A Toowoomba rider has completed the Australian 4 Day Enduro event, 40 years after he was part of the very first ride at Cessnock! He even took the same bike, details here #WINNews6pm”
https://www.facebook.com/geoff.udy.1/posts/2126678340885607
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Not good at all NSR, we struck gold with Linda and Emily on social media ,receiving daily reports.
Linda did the article on day 4 or 5 ,posting it up onto MWA.
Need the people in the right places :) :/
cheers westside
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We did get a mention on the back page of the Cessnock Advertiser.
(http://grapevine.com.au/~gstephan/mboddy/a4deadvertiser1.jpg)
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Any ride reports? Anyone willing to share their experience?
Plenty of stories, videos and pics... all on Facebook. :-\
Tex
Do you have any links to photos of the vintage bikes besides the official A4DE site?
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http://www.mcnews.com.au/a4de-2018-cessnock/
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There's this one which refers to our bikes as dungers >:(
https://transmoto.com.au/2018-a4de-standout-stories/ (https://transmoto.com.au/2018-a4de-standout-stories/)
And then didn't even include our class in the results.
https://transmoto.com.au/2018-yamaha-a4de-day-4-recap/ (https://transmoto.com.au/2018-yamaha-a4de-day-4-recap/)
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On a positive note.great to read Daniel Milner was chuffed to take a win amongst the forfathers of the sport.
Celebrating the 40th #a4de 8)
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It does not seem right if they don't acknowledge the vintage class in the results when they rode the same course, were timed and 'racing' had to have the same license and insurance etc etc. its not like the class was a non competitive exhibition class. They just happened to be riding older bikes.
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Yep DM even gave us a mention at his outright speech. Our course was shorter, but not by much and we rode the whole course, they did some of it twice. Anyway, not sure why I expected anything more.
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Bought ADB with the A4dE write up.
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I also bought the latest ADB but I didn't interpret it badly like you did.
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Yeah maybe your right. I'll read it again.
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I also bought the latest ADB but I didn't interpret it badly like you did.
I didn't attend the A4DE, and so have no first hand experience. I thought the article in the latest ADB showed the vintage riders in a good light.
Tex
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The A4DE 2018 "A Vintage experience" video is available via either a subscription streaming service or as a DVD / Blu Ray purchase. You can find the video at https://www.indiscussionwith.com
There are plans for a lot more Vintage bike videos in the future so keep checking the web site for future videos. Look out for Harrow 2018 coming in August.
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A4de - vintage video trailer . Here is the trailer for cliffs a4de vintage video ,which is nearly 2 hrs of coverage, $25 for the DVD or $25 for the stream subscription that also gives access to all the 4 day extras and other videos he’s done like harrow or going to do like harrow 2018
https://vimeo.com/273231484/bda9aedd58
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Cliffs video is an independent production focussing mainly on the vintage class. There is no association with the video that the club advised they were producing for the event .
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2019 A4de Supp. Regs with some details of the vintage class are now on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/385063604841247/posts/2377673005580287/
And
http://www.a4de.com.au/
5 Entries so far
http://www.a4de.com.au/index.php/nominations
Some extracts regarding vintage ;
12.7 Vintage Class will ride the same course as the main field Day 1 and Day 3, Day 2 will be a shortened day and Day 4 will be the same course as the main field, including the Final Moto.
The Vintage Class will start in Prologue order as one group 5minutes behind the main field.
Vintage Classic79 (Support Class) All Powers – Only Enduro motorcycles with air cooled or liquid cooled engines, drum or disc brakes and twin shocks or mono absorber or cantilever, will be
admitted. Only motorcycles manufactured up to and including 1979. Rider must have turned 45 years on or before 1/1/2019. In the case of a tie on times, the older rider will be the best of both. There will be additional awards within this class, see section 9.
Vintage EVO86 (Support Class)
All Powers – Only Enduro motorcycles with air cooled or liquid cooled engines, drum or disc brakes and twin shocks or mono absorber or cantilever, will be admitted. Only motorcycles manufactured up to and including 1986. Rider must have turned 45 years on or before 1/1/2019. In the case of a tie on times, the older rider will be the best of both. There will be additional awards within this class, see section 9
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You and the team going to give it another go?
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Team Green and Gold won’t be doing the four day next year , but we will be out in force for the A3DVE , that will be a top vintage event for everyone.
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looking forward to the I3D ;)