OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Spaniards (Bultaco, Ossa, Montesa etc) => Topic started by: Tahitian_Red on August 04, 2008, 03:26:23 pm
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I have always been curious about these bikes. Rickmans seemed to solve the problems of good motors in bad stock frames, but the 74 Montesa VR was a great all-around bike. I think the VR is one of the nicest looking pre-75 bikes. What problems did the Rickman Montesa solve?
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I don't think it solved any probs, it was just a mariage of conveniences. Rickman wanted an engine and Monty wanted to sell engines.
Rickman seemed to be aimed at the US market. I don't know if that lead to any conflicts but they must have been aimed at a similar market.
I think the Rickman Monty was a 'down market' Rickman with a painted frame and aimed at volume. The Rickman may have been somewhat lighter than the Monty edition but I don't know how they compared in performance and handling. Anyone ???
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Rickman Montys frames were nickel plated Graeme. They weren't the best thing to ever come from the Rickman factory but believe it or not they're lighter than a VR and handle extremely well. They're very well put together bikes but they didn't really offer a viable alternative to a proper VR. The VR looks better in my opinion but the Rickman is better finished. It's really down to whatever turns you on.
Graeme Noyce started his GP career on a Rickman Monty and then built a Rickman 400 Husky. He worked at the Rickman factory and built the bike on the Monty jig. You've got a much better chance of building a fair dinkum Noyce replica using a Rickman Montesa frame and a Husky 400 engine than those other so called RC450 "replicas" mentioned elsewhere.
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Rickman Montys frames were nickel plated Graeme.
Are you 100% certain ???.
The VR looks better in my opinion but the Rickman is better finished.
All the Monties were just about the 'pick of the litter' for looks each year in this period. Whereas the tank and chassis parts that looked appropreiate on the larger Rickmans initially looked pretty ordinary on the Rickman Montesa with and then quickly became dated, IMHO ;D.
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Yes....All Rickmans are nickel plated.
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Ditto!
Only Rickman frames I have ever seen have been nickle plated.
At the very least all the Montesa powered Rickmans I have ever seen.
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Jared,
How does the Rickman compare to the VR on the track?
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I thought nickle plated frames were a hallmark of Rickman. I was taking an interest in this.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350083951150&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:MOTORS:1123
The frame looked pretty ordinary so I ask the seller about the frame and he responded it was painted. At first I thought it wasn't a Rickman. Hmmmm, I thought, and went to google images and punched in Rickman Montesa and look at a number of Rickman Montesa's. I checked the frame configeration and satisfied myself it was a Rickman and, although its hard to tell, I thought a number of them looked as though they were painted silver rather than shiny nickle plated.
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It's a rough old Rickman that needs saving Graeme. It looks like rusty nickel to me and I think they're Bilstein shocks. Why not buy it for 50 bucks and ship it to Long Beach and include it with the load of stuff Alan and I have there.
.Go on, I know you need it and you're saving another classic from becoming a Hyundi.
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Jared,
How does the Rickman compare to the VR on the track?
From the amount of time I have had riding a Rickman (I never raced one) the Rickman seemed more neutral than
the VR. It didn't want to hang the rear end out as much and was slightly less stable over the jumps.
I think the Rickman would turn under the VR with all things being equal. The one thing I did not like
about the Rickman was the gap between the front of the seat and the gas tank. :(
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Why not buy it for 50 bucks and ship it to Long Beach and include it with the load of stuff Alan and I have there.
.Go on, I know you need it ....
Behind me Satan; be gone. :-\
Its actually got another bidder now, thats takes away some of the guilt of leaving another thorough breed to it fate ::).
It's a rough old Rickman that needs saving Graeme. It looks like rusty nickel to me and I think they're Bilstein shocks.
I was thinking of it. I'm worried that it is indeed a painted rusty frame. I reckon about $500+ to restore/replate (I wouldn't have a Rickman that wasn't shiny, and I mean bling shiny, nickle - whats the point ::)). Although it might be lucky and have a paint preserved nickle frame 8).
I've got most of a side port motor that I could slip in - a 'by product' of the VB project ::).
I've checked the Rickman site, all of the fibreglass can be had for about $600 plus import. And then there's the running gear.
I am tempted but I think I'll pass. I really do have too many projects (mantra: Disclipine, disclipine, I must have self control, I must be strong) . I was only interested in 'saving it for a rainy day'. I think I'll get the rusty side port Monty frame together, up and running, and then in the future, maybe, seek out a Rickman frame. They do come up every now and then.
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about the Rickman was the gap between the front of the seat and the gas tank. :(
I with you on this Jared. All the Rickmans have it and it looks 'wrong'. How it would feel on the bike I not sure. I know if I was to resto one I would be torn between originality and 'the way it should be'.
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You're right about the gap between the seat and the tank but while it may be a ball catcher in theory, I've asked mates who've ridden them and they report "no problem". I don't think it looks wrong, it just looks 'Rickman", there's nothing that looks remotely like a Rickman Metisse, which is why I love 'em I guess.
If I was buying that Rickman Monty frame, I'd fit a Husky or some other sideport engine, just to be different. Rickman Metisses are perfect fodder for the hot rodder that lays dormant in many of us. For instance, I bought a pretty nice Rickman Zundapp frame for $100 the other week and last week got a full set of Metisse bodywork for $225 and now will add my DT1 engine and hopefully produce something like this............Actually it'll be a combo. My frame is MK4 like the top photo but the bodywork is MK3 like the bottom shot. I prefer the rounder and softer (like me) Mk3 shape.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/dt1r2.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/1964rickmanbultacoleftside.jpg)
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There, problem solved!
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The "problem" may be solved Jared but it looks like shit! :o
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I agree with you Mark about the seat and the appearances of the mk 3. Subtle but nicer. I would be tempted do make changes from the standard Rickman Monty.
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/rickmanmonty2.jpg)
The wrap around sidecover protecting the carb might have practicle merit but in the appearances stakes..... ::).
The Mk 3 and 4 tank badge is far more asthetically desireable then the Rickman Monty's. The British Racing Green, the low front gaurd and the Union Jack on the tank yell 'style' and 'Rickman'. I was thinking of making similar changes to a Rickman Monty, playing mix and match and thinking black - another black and shiney chrome beauty 8).
Ya talking me into it. I've got an hour or so ::).
Mantra: Disclipine, disclipine, I must have self control, I must be strong.
(The photo of the Rickman Monty is a current Ebay offering.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330258565631&indexURL=1&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting
$500US - reserve not meet.)
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Is this the neatest fuel tap/fuel line set up you have ever seen :o 8) ;) - in appearance and practicality.
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/rickmanmonty3.jpg)
Is that Rickman OEM? Anyone know?
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Why is the head on backwards? :D
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Why is the head on backwards? :D
I thought something was different ::). I thought the difference was that the carby was covered and with the void filled in it looked different ::). I'll make sure I don't make that mistake ::).
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Sold $50US :'(
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350083951150&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:MOTORS:1123
I stayed strong ;D. One of those occasional good ebay deal I would guess.
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From the amount of time I have had riding a Rickman (I never raced one)
Jared, do you remember what the brakes were like. They look nice, small and light, but I would guess pretty minimal when it comes to stopping.
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Rickman brakes are among the best Graeme. Jonesy has a Rickman Montesa front brake on Black Betty and she puts out over 60hp, is veeery fast and stops just fine. I'm using them on my Cheney, Metisse and already have 'em on the Ducati and Cotton. They look pretty too!
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/eso2.jpg)
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A vmx friend said this morning that his Rickman Montesa weight 96 kilos,nice weight I reckon. ;D
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Brakes on the Rickman were good, no complaints...
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A vmx friend said this morning that his Rickman Montesa weight 96 kilos,nice weight I reckon. ;D
As reliable as claimed weight are, Montesa claimed 96.6kg (213lbs) for the Cappra. If either weights are accurate, wet weight or dry weight, who's to know; but probably indicative and interesting.
http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=332625
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A vmx friend said this morning that his Rickman Montesa weight 96 kilos,nice weight I reckon. ;D
As reliable as claimed weight are, Montesa claimed 96.6kg (213lbs) for the Cappra. If either weights are accurate, wet weight or dry weight, who's to know; but probably indicative and interesting.
http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=332625
Would it not be lighter than most other pre 75 bikes ??? Alot easier for me too lift up off the track,if need be 8)
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Yeh, I've always found that gap weird too. As I recall some of the micro-mettises didn't have it - & look better to my mind as a result.
MX, I'm pretty sure that tap is OEM. Look like typical/common british taps of the era. Look exactly the same as on Dad's Villiers pump engines! They were horrid. Relied on cork cylinder inside to seal, which it usually didn't for long. Cork swelled, jammed etc. You get the idea
Regards, weight. In Oct 72 Dirt Bike rolled all the common dirtbikes straight out of the showroom floor & weighed them on a calibrated scale then published them. They didn't say if any had any fuel in the tanks, but the 72 Rickman Montesa weighed 228lbs. That surprises me cos Monty frames are heavy (My V75 frame & swingarm weighs 20kg) & one would think a specialty frame would be lighter.
VR engine maybe slightly lighter than 72 63M engine, but probably only by a kilo or so.
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With an earlier engine, the Rickman Monty can be raced in "Classic" class in AHRMA, maybe similar in some VMX classes in Oz as well.
I am with you, the VR is a beauty and the Ricky looks like crap.
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Even though I'm a Rickman fan I have to admit that the Rickman Brothers got it all wrong with the Rickman Montesa. Maybe it's because it's a single downtube frame that's different to the usual twintube or maybe it's the heavy and ugly steel tank which gives the bike a bulky look or maybe it's a combination of everything. Compare the ugly Rickman Monty to the beautiful DT1 Metisse or Betty. You can see where they got it wrong. It's kind of like when Ford went from the Classic Mustang shape of 69-70 to the ugly '71 and worse '72. It's taking a good design one step too far past the original concept or 'one toke over the line' to coin a phrase.
The VR on the other hand is gorgeous and I rate it as one of the three best looking motocross bikes of all time.
Having said that and ugliness aside, the Rickman is a good bloody bike, more than equal to anything in its class in '74. Today they're a good cheap intro into the world of custom framed bikes and make a great basis for a hybrid. I've seen them with Husky, XL Honda, CZ and T100 Triumph engines over the years. They look a hell of a lot better when the fugly steel MK4 tank is replaced by either a glass version or rounder MK3 bodywork, similar to what I'm doing with my Zundapp Rickman/DT1 project.
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Yeh,
I think the VR is a great looking bike too, except for the black guards. Look better w white guards & even silver frame. Have seen one w yellow guards which looked nice to, esp if one of the stripes on the tank is yellow
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Yeh,
I think the VR is a great looking bike too, except for the black guards. Look better w white guards & even silver frame. Have seen one w yellow guards which looked nice to, esp if one of the stripes on the tank is yellow
Hmmm, I quite like the black gaurds 8).
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/vrmx200051.jpg)(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/cp250vr.gif)
Maybe not a standout but at least different from every other bugger with white gaurds, and not just Monties :). I would imagine they would fade and look crap pretty quickly.
But both are a sweet looking bike. They look 'right', proportional.
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Scarlet does it for me. :-*
VMX mag No 11
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Is this the neatest fuel tap/fuel line set up you have ever seen :o 8) ;) - in appearance and practicality.
Is that Rickman OEM? Anyone know?
My 1960s vintage lawnmower had the same fuel tap and yes it looks neat but did leak and stick a bit.