OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Jumpjuly on December 16, 2015, 10:21:06 am

Title: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Jumpjuly on December 16, 2015, 10:21:06 am
Hello,

Im in the process of building my DT250.

Current mods are:

- Mx250 Barrel & piston ( Highly Ported )
- Boyesen Reeds
- New Rear Shocks
- Custom Expansion Chamber
- New Coils

I am now at the stage of sorting out fuel delivery, what are peoples suggestions ?
What works best ? For the wank factor I would love a flatslide, but not imperative.

any suggestions would be great ! thanks.
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Nathan S on December 16, 2015, 11:14:35 am
What are you using the bike for?
If it has to stay Pre-75 or Pre-78 legal, then the only question is what size Mikuni round slide you fit: 34, 36 or maybe 38.

Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Jumpjuly on December 16, 2015, 11:44:32 am
Im making it as a street / dirt tracker, something to scoot around the city on the take it into the fire roads and have a bit of dirt fun.
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Nathan S on December 16, 2015, 12:54:42 pm
Hard to beat a PWK then.
Will idle at the lights, have better throttle response than virtually anything, hold its tune well (regardless of temp/altitude), is easy to get parts for, and still make about as much grunt as anything.

Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: cyclegod on December 16, 2015, 12:57:50 pm
DT standard carb was a 30mm and MX was a 34mm, why not comprimise with a 32mm ? still streetable without being too thirsty.
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Jumpjuly on December 16, 2015, 01:05:06 pm
Ok cool, the PWK sounds like the goods, the engine wouldn't need more fuel due to the porting and pipe ? I would assume I should go atleast the same size as a standard MX.
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Nathan S on December 16, 2015, 01:12:20 pm
I'd go for a PWK35 or 36, subject to what physically fits*, what the porting is actually like, and how pleasant you want it to be at light throttle/cruising/etc. A 38 still wouldn't be completely out of the question.

*The PWK35 has a smaller body than a PWK36.
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Jumpjuly on December 16, 2015, 01:22:54 pm
I do currently have a Mikuni TM flatslide, but I am at a loss on how to find out how big the carb is and whether or not it will work with my bike.
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: shelpi on December 16, 2015, 03:21:37 pm
The Sudco 5th Edition Tuning Manual is a great thing to have its got it all in there, will help in every way,
have a look! and its cheap ;)
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Jumpjuly on December 16, 2015, 03:36:12 pm
cool, $25 on ebay, sold !
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Nathan S on December 16, 2015, 05:31:13 pm
There's numerous versions of flat slide Mikunis called "TM". The later TMX/TMXX are pretty good, I'm not so impressed by the earlier ones.
They're much harder to get jets for, and there's way less publicknowledge about needles, compared to the PWK. The Aussie Mikunis importer is GREAT to deal with, which eases the pain.
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Lozza on December 16, 2015, 06:41:49 pm
All fall well short of the tunability and outright HP of either a round slide PHBE and flat slide VHSB Dellorto.
(http://www.rrd-preparation.com/14387/carburateur-dellorto-phbe-36-hs-starter-a-levier-sans-graissage-separe.jpg)

(http://www.dellortodirect.com/images/vhsbracing.jpg)

ultimate two stroke carby

(http://www.dellorto.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/r9216-300x300.jpg)
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: LWC82PE on December 16, 2015, 10:16:29 pm
When were those Delortos first available? Would they be better than a Lectron?
What website can I find all the various dimensions on those?
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Nathan S on December 17, 2015, 08:24:10 am
Lozza loves his Dellortos, but they give me the shits:
Hard to get parts for;
Minimal knowledge base/publically available info;
Needle and seat will last a ridiculously short period of time;
Sensitive to temp/altitude changes.

I'm happy to accept that they're the best for performance - but the extra performance just isn't worth it to me.
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: FourstrokeForever on December 17, 2015, 09:07:18 am
Lozza loves his Dellortos, but they give me the shits:
Hard to get parts for;
Minimal knowledge base/publically available info;
Needle and seat will last a ridiculously short period of time;
Sensitive to temp/altitude changes.

I'm happy to accept that they're the best for performance - but the extra performance just isn't worth it to me.

And I second that!

After years of tuning Dellortos on my early Husaberg(s) , I can honestly say that when Dellortos are new, they are great and hold their tune well. They are very sensitive to atmosphere conditions but a quick fiddle with the mixture screw usually cures hiccups. Once they start to wear, they are a pain in the brain (and wallet). It doesn't take long for the slide, needle and seat to start wearing.
Once I bit the bullet and forked out for a 41mm Keihin FCR, the difference is amazing. Easy to start, much better response, no hiccups on nasty hills.....

If your not worried about race eligibility, put a flatslide on it. I'd personally go for a 36mm as with the reeds, porting and pipe, the engine will love more fuel.
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Lozza on December 17, 2015, 09:46:29 am
Lozza loves his Dellortos, but they give me the shits:
Hard to get parts for;
Minimal knowledge base/publically available info;
Needle and seat will last a ridiculously short period of time;
Sensitive to temp/altitude changes.

I'm happy to accept that they're the best for performance - but the extra performance just isn't worth it to me.
Dellorto UK have all the bits here in the same time as importers here finished asking you questions. Rubber tipped float valves are the only ones that wear. There is far MORE info and tuning programs for dellortos than any other carby. The only trick is to remember they are a needle not a main jet carby.
When were those Delortos first available? Would they be better than a Lectron?
What website can I find all the various dimensions on those?
PHBE are mid 70s onwards infinitely  better. Not sure of dimensions but i can measure any round or flatslide i have.
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Jumpjuly on December 17, 2015, 01:45:52 pm
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KTM-250-MX-GS-1985-1986-Dellorto-PHBE-38-Round-Slide-38mm-Carburetor-G-Cond-/401042398809?hash=item5d5ffd5e59:g:apAAAOSw1S9WcLoN

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dellorto-38mm-Flat-Slide-Carburettor-Superkart-Rotax-Karts-/281863773599?hash=item41a063dd9f:g:AQYAAOSwofxUesye

Well there is one of each !

The Mikuni I have has an intake side size of 37mm. I spoke to Mikuni oz and they advised it wasnt one of theirs so they couldnt help with parts, doesnt make sense to me.
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: shelpi on December 17, 2015, 02:10:53 pm
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KTM-250-MX-GS-1985-1986-Dellorto-PHBE-38-Round-Slide-38mm-Carburetor-G-Cond-/401042398809?hash=item5d5ffd5e59:g:apAAAOSw1S9WcLoN

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dellorto-38mm-Flat-Slide-Carburettor-Superkart-Rotax-Karts-/281863773599?hash=item41a063dd9f:g:AQYAAOSwofxUesye

Well there is one of each !

The Mikuni I have has an intake side size of 37mm. I spoke to Mikuni oz and they advised it wasnt one of theirs so they couldnt help with parts, doesnt make sense to me.
Im not here to pro or con carbies, its just that  the Sudco 5th edition mikuni tuneing manual has a extremely comprehensive parts catalogue, so has all parts, all carbies round slide upto the latest Tm's
Not to mention important tuneing and carby diagnostics info
and then there is all the after market stuff like manifolds, filters, pumps, all colour fuel line (like honda grey with the red stripe), jets, needles,  etc etc
It is the best thing you can do for yourself, even if not useing Mikuni the info itself is a fantastic guide and knowledge base  ;)
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: Jumpjuly on December 17, 2015, 02:45:09 pm
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KTM-250-MX-GS-1985-1986-Dellorto-PHBE-38-Round-Slide-38mm-Carburetor-G-Cond-/401042398809?hash=item5d5ffd5e59:g:apAAAOSw1S9WcLoN

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dellorto-38mm-Flat-Slide-Carburettor-Superkart-Rotax-Karts-/281863773599?hash=item41a063dd9f:g:AQYAAOSwofxUesye

Well there is one of each !

The Mikuni I have has an intake side size of 37mm. I spoke to Mikuni oz and they advised it wasnt one of theirs so they couldnt help with parts, doesnt make sense to me.
Im not here to pro or con carbies, its just that  the Sudco 5th edition mikuni tuneing manual has a extremely comprehensive parts catalogue, so has all parts, all carbies round slide upto the latest Tm's
Not to mention important tuneing and carby diagnostics info
and then there is all the after market stuff like manifolds, filters, pumps, all colour fuel line (like honda grey with the red stripe), jets, needles,  etc etc
It is the best thing you can do for yourself, even if not useing Mikuni the info itself is a fantastic guide and knowledge base  ;)

Is that you Mr Sudco :p
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: shelpi on December 17, 2015, 03:08:38 pm
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KTM-250-MX-GS-1985-1986-Dellorto-PHBE-38-Round-Slide-38mm-Carburetor-G-Cond-/401042398809?hash=item5d5ffd5e59:g:apAAAOSw1S9WcLoN

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dellorto-38mm-Flat-Slide-Carburettor-Superkart-Rotax-Karts-/281863773599?hash=item41a063dd9f:g:AQYAAOSwofxUesye

Well there is one of each !

The Mikuni I have has an intake side size of 37mm. I spoke to Mikuni oz and they advised it wasnt one of theirs so they couldnt help with parts, doesnt make sense to me.
Im not here to pro or con carbies, its just that  the Sudco 5th edition mikuni tuneing manual has a extremely comprehensive parts catalogue, so has all parts, all carbies round slide upto the latest Tm's
Not to mention important tuneing and carby diagnostics info
and then there is all the after market stuff like manifolds, filters, pumps, all colour fuel line (like honda grey with the red stripe), jets, needles,  etc etc
It is the best thing you can do for yourself, even if not useing Mikuni the info itself is a fantastic guide and knowledge base  ;)

Is that you Mr Sudco :p
Major miner Mr Sudco reporting for Duty Sir!  :D ;)
Title: Re: DT250 Carb Choice
Post by: LWC82PE on December 17, 2015, 05:30:39 pm
Quote
PHBE are mid 70s onwards infinitely  better. Not sure of dimensions but i can measure any round or flatslide i have.

Well that's something to consider an option if roundslide PHBE were around pre 78. Lectrons are very expensive out of USA right now. I need to see if i can find out the overall length dimensions and OD where the air boot fits on and distance from air intake down to base of the float bowl to make sure float bowl wont rub on engine cases. I never really considered them for a 2T and they are mainly what i see on Guzzis/Ducatis although Geoff Udy used to sell them for PE's.