OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Rossvickicampbell on March 31, 2015, 03:27:54 pm
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Gents - what are people using for gear box oils? I have been using Silkolene light gear oil - 75-80w SAE - but without going into the whys and wherefores need to change and want something just as good. For a YZ 360.
thanks
Rossco
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G'day Slim.. not sure what the factory recommended back in the day.. but I am using Motorex gear oil...can get it from Don at Cycle Products West down in Bibra Lake.. when he gets back ..he is in Abu Dhabi for the rally atm..
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thanks old fella - will have a look.
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Supa crap auto .... I use Castrol manual transmission VMX 80w ;)
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ATF......cheap. Change it after every ride.
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Motor Cross ATF . and Ilke ted said change every Meeting .
But if you are Now moving to Vinduro s VMX 80 or ATF
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Castrol GTX 20-50 or Valvoline equivalent. usually around $15 when on special. Used in 79' rm125n and '98 rmx250.
Changed it every 3rd or 4th ride. Never had a problem.
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Motul Transoil Expert 10w40 in my RM370 & 250 :)
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use the Early ford BorgWarner ATF or Briggs and Stratton straight 30 wt oil. works fine, no need for fancy named oils with loaded costs. they are normal oil with a few additives to make you pay more
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Ahh ... the oil debate !
Just my tuppence worth. I have used Silkolene Medium weight gear oil in all my 2 strokes since the 1980's. Never ever had an issue. Just change it often (within reason). I have been a little lax with the Husky 390WR, but it has never shown signs of wear in the last 12 years. That one gets done after 200 miles or so. The only fly in the ointment now is the Husky Auto .... that's a whole different story.
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I used to use silkolene in the husky I had years ago. good oil but a bit pricey now.
I cant believe I spent all that money on special light weight gear oils when I had a service station full of ATF at my disposal :'(
if you want to talk high loading clutch application, you cant go past a big block pushing an auto....ATF works fine!
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I can't disgree with ATF.. back in the 70'/80's when Dad worked at an Auto trans place .. and we had plenty (for nothing) it worked a treat.. but now.. the gbox's are 40 years older.. I'm happy to get some hi-tech modern oil with a bit more cushioning for the tired old gears and shift forks..
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"a bit more cushioning for the tired old gears and shift forks.." yeah yeah I'm getting older and fatter too.... ::)
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buy a big block auto...plenty of cushioining....
from what I have seen on similar threads, the special gear oils are plain oils with an "additive" to give a simulated higher viscosity with simulated price increase that's real....
Briggs oil is fine, ive used both atf and briggs in the husky and kato with no dramas. shouldn't be payin much more than $10 a litre.
if you need some writing on a bottle to cushion your old gears, fine by me...:)
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excuse the confusion here but what is the differences in grade rating? Silkolene light gear oil is SAE75W-80 - Pentrite have recommended 10W-30 - obviously different scales????
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I use transoil expert syn motul, but also use ATF in my race bikes. Really no need to change it very often. Consider it runs for 30 thousand K's in the average car getting cut to pieces in a torque converter.
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What does the book say?
Im willing to wager it says use 10-40 motor oil.
Thats what all early jap bike manuals say and is what i use.
ATF was around years ago and so was gear oil. . sort of makes you wonder why the engineers didnt specify those if they were suitable as its certainly not a price thing. Most oils will work on the cogs and a heavier weight will just drag more but with a wet clutch being soaked in the stuff, thats a different matter as the anti friction additives and viscosity goes against what a clutch is suppose to do.
consider the action of the clutch and how oil plays a vital part in its action both engaged and disengaged and you will come up with an oil suitable for you.
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yup, straight 15w-40 mineral oil does it for me, but then I'm probably old school as I still use the clutch (albeit with a little fanning sometimes) on all up and downshifts ;D
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I rode a mates "moto Villa" and It needed the clutch lever pulled to gain certainty of shifts...without it, it would suddenly return to the previous gear with the obvious downfalls that entails.
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http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-VMX-80-Gearbox-Differential-Oil-1-Litre.aspx?pid=1582#Recommendations
20% off today
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Even cheaper when buying 4 litre pack ;)
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I don't believe one can go past A.T.F. It is perfect for clutches, minimum drag, gets in where it's needed, plus it is an extreme pressure lubricant for gears, When I was working on Johnson outboards 135 hp. the instruction was if the OMC oil was not available for the lower leg gear set in your location use A.T.F.
Typical planetary gears in Car auto trans are small gears, small teeth and high tooth loading.
pancho.
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http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-VMX-80-Gearbox-Differential-Oil-1-Litre.aspx?pid=1582#Recommendations
20% off today
Not a good oil for a motorcycle gearbox with a wet clutch unless you want to turn it into an auto.
There is a Castrol gearoil at Supercheap that is better suited to 2 strokes.
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-MTX-2-Stroke-Gear-Oil-1-Litre.aspx?pid=4460&menuFrom=60604#Recommendations
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http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-VMX-80-Gearbox-Differential-Oil-1-Litre.aspx?pid=1582#Recommendations
20% off today
Not a good oil for a motorcycle gearbox with a wet clutch unless you want to turn it into an auto.
There is a Castrol gearoil at Supercheap that is better suited to 2 strokes.
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-MTX-2-Stroke-Gear-Oil-1-Litre.aspx?pid=4460&menuFrom=60604#Recommendations
Castrol(and me) think differently.
http://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/products/cars/manual-transmission-fluids/manual-vmx-80w.html
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http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-VMX-80-Gearbox-Differential-Oil-1-Litre.aspx?pid=1582#Recommendations
20% off today
Not a good oil for a motorcycle gearbox with a wet clutch unless you want to turn it into an auto.
There is a Castrol gearoil at Supercheap that is better suited to 2 strokes.
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-MTX-2-Stroke-Gear-Oil-1-Litre.aspx?pid=4460&menuFrom=60604#Recommendations
Castrol(and me) think differently.
http://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/products/cars/manual-transmission-fluids/manual-vmx-80w.html
"•It can be used as a low drag gearbox oil in 2-stroke motorcycles with separate gearboxes." Might mean a dry clutch Lozza.
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let him try it and report back ;D
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I think it means separate gearbox as in not part of the engine lubrication like a four stroke. Oldfart says he uses it in all his bikes and has no problems so i think that says enough that it is fine for clutches.
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I think it means separate gearbox as in not part of the engine lubrication like a four stroke. Oldfart says he uses it in all his bikes and has no problems so i think that says enough that it is fine for clutches.
What two stroke motorcycle has gearbox oil lubrication ?
Some 2 stroke roadies have dry clutches.
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I think it means separate gearbox as in not part of the engine lubrication like a four stroke. Oldfart says he uses it in all his bikes and has no problems so i think that says enough that it is fine for clutches.
What two stroke motorcycle has gearbox oil lubrication ?
Some 2 stroke roadies have dry clutches.
I think what i have written may have been misunderstood?
Not sure if your question is directly aimed at me? the answer is all 2strokes have gearbox oil lubrication so i am not sure what you are trying to say? I do not think that the Castrol info is suggesting it is ok only for 2 strokes with a dry clutch only.
I believe their 'separate' term is meaning for use as a gear oil in all 2 strokes. I do not think they are saying its no ok for clutches. The fact that they mention 2 stroke is suggesting it is not suitable as a 4T oil thats all. Thats how i read it anyway.
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http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-VMX-80-Gearbox-Differential-Oil-1-Litre.aspx?pid=1582#Recommendations
20% off today
Not a good oil for a motorcycle gearbox with a wet clutch unless you want to turn it into an auto.
There is a Castrol gearoil at Supercheap that is better suited to 2 strokes.
http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-MTX-2-Stroke-Gear-Oil-1-Litre.aspx?pid=4460&menuFrom=60604#Recommendations
Castrol(and me) think differently.
http://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/products/cars/manual-transmission-fluids/manual-vmx-80w.html
"•It can be used as a low drag gearbox oil in 2-stroke motorcycles with separate gearboxes." Might mean a dry clutch Lozza.
No 'separate gearbox' means the gearbox and crankcase don't share the same fluid.let him try it and report back ;D
I've only used vmx80 for 20yrs.I think it means separate gearbox as in not part of the engine lubrication like a four stroke. Oldfart says he uses it in all his bikes and has no problems so i think that says enough that it is fine for clutches.
What two stroke motorcycle has gearbox oil lubrication ?
Some 2 stroke roadies have dry clutches.
The number of dry clutch 2 stroke road bikes are 3 RGV VJ22 with a kit dry clutch, NSR250 SE and the TZR 250 3XV SPR. I don't understand what you mean by 'gearbox oil lubrication' as not many gearboxes will run without lubrication.
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I'd use that vmx80 in a Bultaco gearbox and put ATX in the clutch case.
Even though Lozza disagrees with the engineers at castrol this oil is not meant to be used in wet clutches. If it is used in bikes with nominal clutches it will make them slip compared to oil that is made for wet clutch applications.
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I use that same combination in my Bullys.
(VMX80 G-box & ATF Clutch), very happy with it.
cheers, DJ
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Castrol MTX works well.
I started using it when my son raced ktm50's with those 3 shoe clutches. They where horrible. Many guys ran trick shift atf or too cool for the same application.
Mtx was cheap and worked great however it seems to be not so cheap anymore !
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My opinion.Bultaco's with a chain drive primary from crank to clutch hub should never use ATF as it causes premature wear , causing the chain to break . The chain drive problem under extreme load is the reason the Bandido's , Montadero and TSS road racers are all primary gear drive?
The only ATF exception is on the Sherpa trials bikes, ie low speed most of the time.
80/90 grade for the gearbox and 30 grade motor oil for the clutch when steel clutch plates are fitted.
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I have been using the same combination you recomend for years as well,this is factory spec.
One of the factory bulletins asks dealers to use 30wt instead of autotrans fluid to improve primary chain wear.
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Pretty hard to find a straight 30wt motor oil, without any special additives and friction modifiers, these days.
Friction modifiers and steel on steel clutch plates are not a good combination.
Some of the stock Joresa chains would snap the rollers in half, no matter what oil you used.
I'm not making any "recommendations", just reporting what has worked well for me.
Cheers, Daryl.
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Pretty hard to find a straight 30wt motor oil, without any special additives and friction modifiers, these days.
Penrite do a straight 30 weight mineral oil with no friction modifiers. I use it in a lot of primary drives/clutches that are separate to the gearboxes. Its in their 'small engine' range.
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=1&id_subcateg=0&id_products=591
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Briggs and Stratton do a straight mineral 30... most mower shops have in 1 and 5 litres..cheap too
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Even though Lozza disagrees with the engineers at castrol this oil is not meant to be used in wet clutches. If it is used in bikes with nominal clutches it will make them slip compared to oil that is made for wet clutch applications.
::) Complete Bullshit. Castrol say it's fine for 2 stroke gearboxes and so do I, wet or dry clutch. Friction modifers are what cause the clutch to slip. VMX80 contains no friction modifiers. A 43hp RS125 superkart engine has no clutch slip with VMX80.
VMX80 and MTX are one and the same
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Even though Lozza disagrees with the engineers at castrol this oil is not meant to be used in wet clutches. If it is used in bikes with nominal clutches it will make them slip compared to oil that is made for wet clutch applications.
::) Complete Bullshit. Castrol say it's fine for 2 stroke gearboxes and so do I, wet or dry clutch. Friction modifers are what cause the clutch to slip. VMX80 contains no friction modifiers. A 43hp RS125 superkart engine has no clutch slip with VMX80.
VMX80 and MTX are one and the same
Castrol say it's for 2 strokes with a seperate gearbox. They make no claims that it's good for clutches as they do for the MTX. I've seen CR125's with clutch slip change from VMX80 to ATF and fix the slip.
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If you read the product data sheet carefully for both , the VMX80 one does say 2 stroke gearboxes which seems to exclude the clutch and the MTX product data sheet says 2 stroke transmissions which would suggest that it incorporates the clutch/gearbox as the whole transmission. Only what I deduce out of the info on Castrol's site might be wrong
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I have run Vmx 80 trans oil for over 6 years without any slippage or abnormal wear. The oil gets changed at the end of each season as part of the maintenance routine.
Each to their won I suppose .... but it works for me ;D
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I have run Vmx 80 trans oil for over 6 years without any slippage or abnormal wear. The oil gets changed at the end of each season as part of the maintenance routine.
Each to their won I suppose .... but it works for me ;D
I'm sure you are getting away with it, but the piont is that Castrol don't promote it as suitable for wet clutches which is why they make a specific motorcycle transoil. Because of that I don't think it should be recommened as the one to use.
By the way I got your cam back.
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Thanks... will catch up with you Friday.
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Back in the seventies all the 2strokes we sold for on road and trail use had castrol XL which was 30w mineral,race bikes on the other hand were lubricated with ATF with no detrimental effects seen.
Out of all of my personal race bikes i only had one that worked better with XL than ATF and that was one of the first six speed suzuki 125s but after a few races that went over to ATF as well it was just a bit tight when it as new i think. ATF is good but you should change it every meeting when you pull down for a freshen up.
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Going to ATF from 10/40 on my RM 370 went a good way to curing the sticky clutch action from the side cover flexing.
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Repco sell castrol 30 no additives/ detergents etc use on bsa clutch to stop slip