OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Rossvickicampbell on March 07, 2015, 01:46:50 pm

Title: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on March 07, 2015, 01:46:50 pm
Gents - PVL - hooked up to YZ360B - no spark issues before shutting down for overhaul.  Motor has been out since August last year and bike sitting in shed since.  Everything back in OK but won't start - gets close but no first prize.  Have checked fuel, changed spark plugs but no go - fuel on plug.  On doing the old remove plug and check against head trick found spark is intermittent at best but thought this might be due to trying to turn over by hand whilst watching plug.  Have checked external connections and cleaned etc but still no go.  Any thoughts on something I may have missed?  Have not had this happen before?

Loz?

ta guys

Rossco
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Slow Pete on March 07, 2015, 01:50:47 pm
Very similar to my 81RM.  Try putting a multi meter on the magneto/stator/coil the specs will be in your manual


Pete
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Lozza on March 07, 2015, 03:13:13 pm
ground the plug properly and turn the flywheel with a drill in reverse. Report finding.
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: 80-85 husky on March 07, 2015, 04:16:50 pm
ground the stator ok to the cases? got to be something not reassembled right....ol mate did a xr up and kikety kickety kick %^&^%$$# tore it back down and checked all...more kicking no going $#@#%%% another partial teardown to check cam timing etc... then noticed swapped wire on second coil..1 kick....@#$#$%^^
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: alexbrown64 on March 07, 2015, 04:58:57 pm
You mentioned overhaul?  Was the frame re-painted.  Engine painted?  May need to grind some paint from engine mounting points on engine and frame, and where the coil bolts on.  PVL recommends an iridium style plug for stronger sparking, especially when checking spark by hand cranking. I take it you have rechecked timing and all wiring/earths, swapped plugs etc..
I just rebuilt my bike and put the PVL stator and coil on, did timing etc on the bench.  Made sure ALL of the above were correct and she started 4th kick from a full rebuild.
Good luck and keep us posted on results..
Cheers,
Alex
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Iain Cameron on March 07, 2015, 05:00:30 pm
Rossco  its stuffed , sell it to me you know I collect old scrap . Iain
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on March 07, 2015, 07:34:19 pm
thanks everyone - shall play some more - especially Iain for his thoughts  ;D
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: martian170 on March 07, 2015, 08:15:28 pm
Capacitor
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: 80-85 husky on March 07, 2015, 11:48:07 pm
whats the capacity? will that fix the capacitor?
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: FourstrokeForever on March 08, 2015, 10:00:20 am
I had the same problem with a PVL I had on my B50. All was good until the day it decided to play hard to start. Changed the plug and checked spark. Even at full kick speed the spark was very weak and intermittent. The ignition slowly got worse until the day it wouldn't even push start. I gave up on the PVL and bought an Electrex World ignition and now I'm back to easy starting and a bike that is much more responsive.
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Tossa on March 08, 2015, 11:18:08 am
I had the same problem with a PVL I had on my B50. All was good until the day it decided to play hard to start. Changed the plug and checked spark. Even at full kick speed the spark was very weak and intermittent. The ignition slowly got worse until the day it wouldn't even push start. I gave up on the PVL and bought an Electrex World ignition and now I'm back to easy starting and a bike that is much more responsive.

which is more than can be said of the rider!!
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: martian170 on March 08, 2015, 12:02:10 pm
Capacitor is the thing that stores electrical energy and releases it when required ie CDI = capacitor discharge ignition. Hence when people say you should never kick Ya bike over without the plug being earthed is because the capacitor cannot discharge, it heats up and pops new ones are about $3 from RS spares
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: bazza on March 08, 2015, 01:31:12 pm
Electrix world ignition on the B44, love it.
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: FourstrokeForever on March 09, 2015, 09:12:18 am
I had the same problem with a PVL I had on my B50. All was good until the day it decided to play hard to start. Changed the plug and checked spark. Even at full kick speed the spark was very weak and intermittent. The ignition slowly got worse until the day it wouldn't even push start. I gave up on the PVL and bought an Electrex World ignition and now I'm back to easy starting and a bike that is much more responsive.

which is more than can be said of the rider!!

Thanks for the recognition Bazza...... I think  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: dkupf on March 22, 2015, 10:38:57 am
I had a similar problem with a PVL on a Maico after months of looking I found that the flywheel had rubbed through the wires behind the mounting plate.
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on March 22, 2015, 01:39:22 pm
I am a bit laid up at the moment and can't get to the bike as much as I wish - trying to fix another small problem which will then allow me to get onto the spark.  However did have a look at the plug cap and the connection between plug and lead is pretty ordinary so will also play with that whilst it is not going.
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: kdx 175 on March 22, 2015, 04:52:38 pm
i have a NEW pvl on my ktm no spark al all its forked
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: FourstrokeForever on March 22, 2015, 05:57:41 pm
Have you made sure there is a bare metal earth and that the kill button wires are the correct polarity Russel?
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: kdx 175 on March 22, 2015, 08:07:10 pm
i ran a wire from earth on pvl to plug cap back to motor there is one plug to connect you cant get it wrong 
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: PEZBerq on March 23, 2015, 08:14:43 am
I hear that PVL's need a fair bit of cranking speed to spark. Some bikes have a low degree of crank rotation per kickstart swing and are not great PVL candidates. Do you get a full turn out of the engineer on the kickstart Russell?
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: PEZBerq on March 23, 2015, 08:26:22 am
Russell try a non resistor plug, non resistor cap set up also.
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Freakshow on March 23, 2015, 02:43:43 pm
take the cap off and let the bare wire jump to the motor, if its a new one i doubt its the PVL its more lickly the fitting.
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Brian Watson on March 23, 2015, 04:04:39 pm
There are two different types of PVL.. one has more windings than the other.. one is meant for 125/20 and the other for Open class bikes.. so.. check the stator to the crankcases.. make sure all clean.. obviously coil to frame ..all good.. then take about 10mm off the end of the high tension lead.. make sure the copper is clean and visible.. should be all good Ross..
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on March 23, 2015, 05:06:23 pm
Watto - are you going Wednesday night?
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Brian Watson on March 23, 2015, 06:19:58 pm
um.. yeah.. only if you are going to be there.. and Wilfred.. :-[
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on March 23, 2015, 07:39:19 pm
catch ya then........................if I get a pass out  :D
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: ozktm on March 24, 2015, 08:11:53 am
I run PVL's on all my vintage KTM's. No issues.

1. I always run an dedicated earth wire from the stator backing plate to the coil/kill switch earth.
2. I have seen the wires that run through the back of the stator plate get pinched when mounted. I usually unbolt the stator off the mounting plates and reroute the cables so they don't run through the hole in the plate.
3. I usually buy a new NGK red resistor-less cap and solder on the HT lead. but my last bike i used the original cap supplied and haven;t had any issues.
4. Yes there are different number of winding stators, and got caught out with a second hand one off a go cart once. You will not start by kick starting...swapped out for the right number of turns, and it runs first kick. Also there are analogue and digital setups...

To test a used ignition, i have set them up in my drill press using a bolt through the rotor, and stator setup in the vice. Just to prove it works.

Earth wire on stator plate.
(http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i342/ozktm/20150222_155749_zpsafvmknnr.jpg)
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on March 27, 2015, 12:15:45 am
hopefully may have found the problem - "broken" wire between CDI and coil - was not 100% broken until I removed to check all the connections again - looks like an earth wire.  Will try and respade and join see what happens.  If I have to add some wire length any special wire needed?

cheers

Rossco
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on April 23, 2015, 06:38:50 pm
OK - CDI/coil earth wire fixed.........................and timing issue corrected - started second kick  ;D

Who is a happy camper now!
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: FourstrokeForever on April 23, 2015, 08:05:16 pm
OK - CDI/coil earth wire fixed.........................and timing issue corrected - started second kick  ;D

Who is a happy camper now!

And you managed all that without any Suzuki tool? Commonly known as a 5lb hammer
Title: Re: PVL - intermittent spark
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on April 23, 2015, 10:16:33 pm
it came close - went and bought one especially  :D