OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: tony27 on November 28, 2014, 06:40:21 pm
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What should the resistance readings be for the ignition coils on the stator be?
My CZ with the TS ignition conversion wouldn't start after my first race in the weekend due to no spark, during the race & practice it ran well & started easily. I've checked that the wires from stator up to the cdi connection are unbroken & that the other connections are solid
The resistance readings I'm getting are between 120 & 160ohms for both leads with the earth connected directly to the stator plate.
I have another cdi to try if these figures sound okay
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most stuff you may need is here.
http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/suzi/suzidata1.htm
(http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/suzi/suzidata/page%2015.jpg)
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That would suggest that the pulser coil is faulty although I don't know exactly what year the stator is but I wouldn't expect the values to change much
Thanks Pokey
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I'm wondering if I'm testing the coils correctly, the charge coil is in the range if I test from the wire to the stator plate, the pulser coil has a very similar value if tested the same way.
Looking closely at the coils it appears as though the pulser coil is connected to the charge coil with the wire to the cdi coming off it, if I test wire to wire then the value is in spec, is this the correct way to do it?
I got hold of another stator to check condition of the coils & testing both to earth gives similar values as mine but testing from wire to wire had only 3ohms resistance so I'm picking that it is dead, only thing I haven't either swapped or tested is the rd400 coil so I'll try a ts coil & see if there is any change
Any thoughts or suggestions on what else to look for?
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What is the actual problem Tony? old TS stators are pretty reliable things. the CDi sometimes fail but not often.
The blurb above in the attachment tells you how to test. if it passes those then its the CDI or the wiring you have already checked or the coil/or the plug lead or plug.
if you have another CDI just swap it and see if she fires.
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Tony come & get my ts stator & have a play, have cdi boxes as well if it's a ts box you're using, even have a twin lead suzuki cdi coil, & you'll need my peak voltage meter as well. Talking spark, or lack of a funny thing happened the other day--a bike shop came home out with an RV50 they couldn't fix [didn't know where to start] because it 'had points'--points fk what do they do--too hard. still laughing about that--but stopped laughing when i thought back to the first cdi system we had trouble with at work [where do you start!!]. page me Tony if you need to follow up this, happy to help [even confuse lol] Thanks.
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Problem I have Pokey is no spark at all suddenly, I saw Morley's listing on trademe & saw how he'd tested the coils & that they matched with the values in the chart above. If I test the same way mine show up as good as well
My big mistake may have been just testing to earth. I think trying a different top coil may be what is needed as I've tried 2 different CDIs without any success
Working 6pm to 6am at the moment probably isn't helping the brain work to full capacity either
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I'm thinking the problem is the RD coil, held the TS coil to the frame by 1 bolt & have spark from the end of the lead.
It was suggested that with the twin lead coils if 1 plug is not grounded then the coil wouldn't work, 1 lead has to have a weird bend in it when using a normal 90 degree plug cap & I think it may have caused the lead to snap internally so I'm going to try getting an angled or straight cap & cutting the lead back a bit
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yerp. broken lead.. sometimes the simplest answer produces the greatest results.
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Removed cap & exposed 5mm of wire, had spark. Cut the offending lead back 25mm & fitted new 45deg cap, good spark with 1 plug fitted in engine. Bolted tank back on & tried starting, no joy & when I took the rear plug out & kicked it over, no spark again.
This is starting to annoy me & I could end up refitting the original points ignition for the next round of the series in January if I can't find what the cause is soon
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Tested stator coils and they pass . Changed cdi . Changed plug caps. Only things left is a break in the wiring . Kill switch short. Or the coil itself.
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May end up ordering a coil off Rex's speed shop as it's designed for the PEI system & has the correct connections, will need to make a new mounting bracket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201244158401?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Have a electrexworld system on order but they didn't have 1 in stock & everyone is on holiday until the 5th so I don't expect to receive it in time, it is only a single plug system though
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Tony did the system work with a twin lead coil before running off the TS stator. I would have thought it wouldn't put out enough grunt. tried that trick 20 years ago on my old 360 [yam], had to tow it to start it but did get through the day with plugs closed right down. You might have to run two sytems--is that what cz's did with their points ign system--180 apart with "twin cams", jeez that sounds fast!!
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just to confuse things more--just studying the X7 parts fish online & show two primary coils in the mag & also show a pulser sitting external of the flywheel so 'me thinks' maybe the two [big & small] primary coils ramp up the voltage when working together. Reason i say this 'is' that the TS doesn't have a separate trigger coil so i'm thinking the second one on the TS plate is mainly [or only] to trigger it & 'not' to add voltage to the main charge [source] coil -- then again they are sort of linked together anyway on the TS so--i give up. Not sure if this link'll work or if i did it right.
http://www.cmsnl.com/gt250-1981-x_model13780/partslist/FIG-13.html#row3214215320
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Bike has done 2 seasons without missing a beat running this system Morley, takes a few kicks to start the first time of the day which I put down to the engine needing to pull in some fuel. Generally fires up first kick after that
I'm not 100% sure that the gt250 & 500 fired both plugs together twice per revolution but looking at the single trigger would suggest that they do
CZs ran 1 set of points & 2 coils, only 1 was connected to the points. Depending on the year they had either 2 or 3 primary coils, it was explained by a factory mechanic at 1 stage that the way it was set up gave a slight difference in firing to each plug, something to do with the points collapsing the field from 1 coil which caused the field for the other to collapse. Can sort of understand what he was getting at
Will see what my father can suggest tomorrow when he's over for lunch as he worked on telephone exchanges for 20 odd years & understands electronics better than me
Working days through to Sunday evening & may give you a call on Monday if I'm still having problems if you're around
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With the TS coils . First one produces the charge and the second sends the signal to the cdi to fire. No additional charge us produced by the second coil.
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Fitted up the Rex's speed shop coil designed for the GT500 & GT250X7 & the spark is back, the leads are really long & I'll cut them down to a more realistic length after tidying up the new mounting bracket
I've had it running a couple of times so far & am quietly confident that it should work for the 4th round of the eNZed series on Saturday
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/tony27_photo/CZ%20electronic%20ignition%20conversion/temporary_zps59eeb0dc.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/tony27_photo/media/CZ%20electronic%20ignition%20conversion/temporary_zps59eeb0dc.jpg.html)
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This is starting to do my head in
Part way through practice yesterday the bike stopped pulling when coming back onto the throttle, would run okay at low revs & when the revs got up just not in between. After a couple of laps it starting popping & banging before stopping with no spark again, does that sound like a CDI fault?
Any other ideas?
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Tony
You must be just unlucky as the old TS185er CDI are stone reliable
Having checked everything maybe, HEAT or the ZED motor shaking shit out of the stator, or no advance of CDI box .Time to swap parts
Old bike are FUN right :D
Cheers
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startin t do my head in too Tony--& i wasn't even there--sometimes i wonder if i'm even here!!
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Possible CDI issue, or possible incorrect timing setting on the stator.
not often do you ever see a TS PEI unit go belly up. being as the unit is not on a suzuki that could make a difference on how you have set the timing.
for the TS timing settings page 15 near the bottom of the page.
http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/techbuls/SerBulletin%20General%20Index%20plus%201-9.pdf
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Tony
All the TS 185er setups on ZEDS ive seen only had one stator coil suppling the power to the CDI, plus the TS flywheel riveted to the ZED centre, I know PE /RGV Suzuki had a problem cracking or breaking bits of Magnets off the flywheel, maybe a loose magnet or not enough air gap coil to flywheel or to big a gap, might have to move the coil on the back plate , your trick coil made up for the weak pulse from the bottom stator coil ?? :-\
Hope you find a BIG blue spark soon
Cheers
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Murray
The way you describe the flywheel is what I did, from memory the hub centre in the Suzuki flywheel is about 1mm smaller than in the CZ flywheel & I machined it to a good fit
The coils for supplying power to the CDI are stacked & the thinner of the 2 coils connects to the larger before heading up to the CDI, this is the coil referred to as the pulser coil in the parts books
I'm working 12 hour nightshifts until 6am Thursday so it will probably be Friday before I get to have another look at what is going on & possibly try another set of stator coils
Chances are it's something simple as it's been perfect for the 3 or so years that I've run it
Had an email at about 3:30am to say my electrexworld system has been shipped so that will go in when it arrives even if I can find the problem