OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kenneth S (222) on October 26, 2014, 08:52:06 pm
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Will this be a permanent event at Heaven VMX meetings next year? Pre-90 for Heaven, its time to act!
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc468/24HourMerchMan/HeavenPre90_zpsfa9af37e.jpg)
If you are a Heaven VMX member and for Pre-90, we need your vote.
If you can't make it to the Lakes this Saturday, please download the absentee voting forms and get them back to me or Greg Scriven BEFORE this Friday. Absentee voting forms cannot be handed in on Saturday.
You can download the forms here'
http://www.heavenvmx.com.au/pre-90-for-heaven/
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2 Days left to send in your Absentee Vote
If you are mailing your absentee vote, please mail it today!
Let's unite the NSW VMX community and have one solid club in NSW which caters for all VMX classes. There are a lot of great people out there, who are lovers of VMX just like you and I, and it would be great to have them join us and ride an 80s built bike in our meetings.
Let's not let our love for the Golden era of the 70s & early 80s, close our minds to an era the many 40 somethings in our club lived through in their teenage years. They have a right to relive their Golden Years too, don't they?
The bikes are now 25 years and older! A quarter of a Century old! Surely now, these bikes can legitimately be classified as Vintage!
More appeal as a family friendly club. None of us want this club to have any of some of the negative aspects which creep into a Modern Club meeting, I think we are all united in protecting the great atmosphere we enjoy at Heaven meetings, but including this class, has a little more appeal to our son's and daughters, and if we can encourage them to come to meetings with us, we can teach them the values of friendly rivalry, sportsmanship, healthy competition, working on your own bike and keeping it on the track, keeping things in perspective, it's not all about winning.
As the prominent VMX Club in NSW, and one of the leading VMX Clubs in Australia, isn't it time to align ourselves with the Nationally recognised classes for Classic Motocross, by our controlling body Motorcycling Australia?
Pre90 VMX's time has arrived. As mentioned above, this class has been recognised by Motocycling Australia since 2012. Pre-90 is recognised as a Vintage Motocross class by VMX Magazine (The latest issue has a fantastic shot of a Pre-90 bike on the cover), The very popular Classic Dirts and Broadford Bonanzas. If we don't embrace this movement, aren't we just sticking our head in the sand?
Isn't the spirit of this club all about having good times, having fun. Opening this club up to these potential new members, similar to us, with a similar love of old dirt bikes, can only breath new life into and already great club, and boost our numbers, bring fuller start grids and more exciting meetings.
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Good luck with this positive initiative.
I have my fingesr crossed for the supporters of this proposal.
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Whilst I encourage any time of bike racing I have some concerns.
Will the pre 90 guys find our tracks and obstacles too limiting for them? Will they then want bigger jumps, rollers etc? I have yet to see any track that does not have some type of compromise and never all are happy. It’s either to fast and smooth to suit pre 75 or too dam rough for pre 75.
If the pre 90 numbers start to dominate your club the tracks will be built to suit them and the pre 75 guys will push their bikes back into the shed and grumble. If you don’t believe this can happen just look at what has happened to most bike clubs and tracks once they let mini bikes join! The lure of extra numbers to help cost plus volunteers workers is very tempting and is the reason why most clubs let the mini bikes in and then they dominate and the very reason the club was formed in the first place is lost.
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Come off it Mick- the tracks havent changed in the 5 or so years I have been with the club and people still bring their bikes of all classes to the meetings and enjoy them. Maybe you grumble and leave them in the shed (I dont see you at every round), but dont try to speak on behalf of everyone else.
We just had the Canowindra round that saw some of the older bikes dominate. We even had a Pre-75 bike in the top 3 !
I didnt hear any of us Pre-85 guys grumbling......
Good on you Kenneth. My vote is definitely for it.
Best way to expand the club IMO and well overdue....and we all know the Pre-90 guys will bring a Pre-75, Pre-78, Evo or a Pre-85 bike as well!
Lets make this great club even better :)
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Whilst I encourage any time of bike racing I have some concerns.
Will the pre 90 guys find our tracks and obstacles too limiting for them? Will they then want bigger jumps, rollers etc? I have yet to see any track that does not have some type of compromise and never all are happy. It’s either to fast and smooth to suit pre 75 or too dam rough for pre 75.
If the pre 90 numbers start to dominate your club the tracks will be built to suit them and the pre 75 guys will push their bikes back into the shed and grumble. If you don’t believe this can happen just look at what has happened to most bike clubs and tracks once they let mini bikes join! The lure of extra numbers to help cost plus volunteers workers is very tempting and is the reason why most clubs let the mini bikes in and then they dominate and the very reason the club was formed in the first place is lost.
Slakewell, thanks for your comments. In a lot of ways I agree with you. We have to be careful that no class, or their supporters dominate the club, and then dictate the tracks we ride at. If this club is to be run as a true democracy, and keep the spirit alive of what this club was founded on, a fun club, providing events for all of us to enjoy our chosen classes, we should support ALL VMX classes, and as a committee, make sure we organise a mixture of events that cater for the classes our constitution supports. My argument is that Pre-90 is a legitimate VMX class, anyone who is in touch with the VMX scene can see it is here to stay, and at the moment, we are doing to that class what many fear will be done to the older classes, excluding it.
With regards to the tracks, sure, if this goes through, even if it doesn't, we will organise events more suitable for the EVO, Pre 85 & Pre 90 bikes, just as the club has for the Pre-65, Pre-70s & Pre-75s this year. That is all part of catering for all classes.
If the club members vote in favour of this change, then it needs to be a huge plus for the club, it needs to work. For this reason to back my words with actions, I am standing to join the committee this weekend, and if I get voted in, my promise is I will use all the influence I can conjure up to support the Committee in ensuring 1/ The club keeps its great spirit alive of a relaxed, fun, friendly and constructively competitive club, 2/ All classes are catered for equally and no class misses out as a result of including Pre-90 3/ Events and Race Tracks are planned to provide a balanced experience across all members.
To me, this is the most valid concern those against Pre-90 have. To ensure this club is not overrun by newer members with the wrong intentions, and we don't loose the great thing we have. We agree with you that we have to protect the club against this happening. This is why the 3rd Amendment we propose is to reword the responsibility of the organising committee to Quote: "To ensure that members have reasonable opportunity to use and enjoy their motorcycles of all classes covered by Part 1.2.3 above." (Part 1.2.3 above relates to the classes Heaven supports) With this clause, either way, with or without Pre-90, if a person accepts a position on our committee, their role will now be even more clearly defined, and all classes will now be protected.
There are no hidden agendas here. We just think Pre-90 is a legitimate VMX class, many of us want to race them, and adding Pre-90 can make a good thing better.
From the many conversations I have had with members over the course of this season, it seems there are many members who agree. I just hope enough of those that do agree, take the time to vote.
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Whilst I encourage any time of bike racing I have some concerns.
Will the pre 90 guys find our tracks and obstacles too limiting for them? Will they then want bigger jumps, rollers etc? I have yet to see any track that does not have some type of compromise and never all are happy. It’s either to fast and smooth to suit pre 75 or too dam rough for pre 75.
If the pre 90 numbers start to dominate your club the tracks will be built to suit them and the pre 75 guys will push their bikes back into the shed and grumble. If you don’t believe this can happen just look at what has happened to most bike clubs and tracks once they let mini bikes join! The lure of extra numbers to help cost plus volunteers workers is very tempting and is the reason why most clubs let the mini bikes in and then they dominate and the very reason the club was formed in the first place is lost.
I am not a Heaven member and do not live in NSW. So I am speaking as an outsider.
To say the tracks will become more suited to Pre 90 bikes in my view is wrong.
The MX tracks in the 80s became influenced by Supercross, so the reality is the tracks in the 80s were less user friendly than modern tracks now. Tivoli had a double jump in the main straight and quad jumps in one section. Echo Valley had a canyon jump.
The real influence on the track design is the age of the riders. I don't want to race on the same style of tracks I raced on in the 80s when I was late twenties to thirty something. Pre 90 has been run in Queensland since it was in the MOMS and the sky hasn't fallen yet.
Kevin Mortimer
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The tracks in VMX are already leaning towards pre 90 bikes, Echo Valley this year is a perfect example.
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we get all years at Echo Valley, from pre 75 to pre 90 as per our last meet there a couple of weeks ago. but as every one knows who rides within QVMX we use different events . any ride is a good ride ;D
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Gee Johnny, I would have thought that running the Post Classic Nats at Echo Valley was a good thing, You and one other person where the only 2 to whinge [ yet you won a Aussie title], the other 130 odd riders loved it [including Kenneth KJS222]. MX is on all types of tracks, I think we cater for that pretty well. ???
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VMX clubs use the tracks that are available to them... And modern MX is going through another period of "let's pretend our dinky little club track is Anaheim SX".
As a relatively young VMXer, who's passion is the newer-era of old bikes, I can categorically state that I have not, do not and will not push for more/bigger jumps in VMX.
Pre-90 appeals primarily to blokes in their late thirties to early 50s. If you can't regognise the difference between someone who's about 45 years old, and a kid who's just over one third of his age, then I don't know what to say...
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Gee Johnny, I would have thought that running the Post Classic Nats at Echo Valley was a good thing, You and one other person where the only 2 to whinge [ yet you won a Aussie title], the other 130 odd riders loved it [including Kenneth KJS222]. MX is on all types of tracks, I think we cater for that pretty well. ???
Pull your head put of the sand Davey! We were the only 2 who decided to speak their mind and cop shit from a couple of one eyed monkeys that didn't even ride the track. The fact that more than half the riders packed up and didn't ride the 3rd moto at the Aussie titles is proof they weren't having a good time, And I heard the same complaints from many!
And the poor amount of entries to last week's Echo Valley race is another sign..
How many clues do you need??!
Qvmx did a great job running the titles and Echo Valley is a great venue but it isn't the track it used to be and doesn't necessarily suit the majority of vmxers
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12 posts at this point.
Only 5 of those posts are from Heaven members who will actually decide this matter.
The suitability or otherwise of Echo Valley has basically less than nothing to do with this debate. I have no idea about Echo Valley and frankly don’t care.
Constructive input for and against the proposal from people with experience of how Heaven VMX operate are welcomed.
Any track can be used by all era of bikes, personally I love Lakes, Cessnock and Canberra on my Pre75 but others don't enjoy all or some of those tracks even on their Pre85. I also enjoy mud track so there you go ::).
We ran a successful event with Pre75 - Pre90 in teams on a modern track at Cessnock recently with positive feedback.
We have ran Pre65 events on the same tracks as Pre85s with positive feedback from both classes.
Our position is that the members will decide. Read the information carefully and most importantly VOTE either for or against but please VOTE.
Heaven VMX is run very much on democratic lines and the best possible outcome is for the majority of members to vote and voice their opinion to clearly show their preferred direction. The least desirable outcome is for <50 members to decide the issue either way for such a significant change to the club.
I think Kenneth is trying to encourage Heaven VMX members to exercise their right to steer the club by voting.
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12 posts at this point.
Only 5 of those posts are from Heaven members who will actually decide this matter.
The suitability or otherwise of Echo Valley has basically less than nothing to do with this debate. I have no idea about Echo Valley and frankly don’t care.
Constructive input for and against the proposal from people with experience of how Heaven VMX operate are welcomed.
Any track can be used by all era of bikes, personally I love Lakes and Canberra on my Pre75 but others don't. We ran a successful event with Pre75 - Pre90 in teams on a modern track at Cessnock recently with positive feedback.
We have ran Pre65 events on the same tracks as Pre85s with positive feedback from both classes.
Our position is that the members will decide. Read the information carefully and most importantly VOTE either for or against but please VOTE.
Heaven VMX is run very much on democratic lines and the best possible outcome is for the majority of members to vote and voice their opinion to clearly show their preferred direction. The least desirable outcome is for <50 members to decide the issue either way for such a significant change to the club.
I think Kenneth is trying to encourage Heaven VMX members to exercise their right to steer the club by voting.
I apologise for getting this off on a different subject, I didn't mean too. My last comment is, in my opinion Pre 90 has been a positive move in Queensland.
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As with Kev I don't live there so its of no concern to me :)
However in my experience ( Held lots of positions on a lot of bike club committees over the last 40 yrs ) I have found its not the bikes or the tracks that really make a difference its the people . The older people who generally ride the older classes grew up when being an active club member meant something and they still to this day are active committee members and get up and make things happen .
The newer classes attract the younger generation who have a habit of Sea gulling clubs and events (Turn up make a shit load of noise , shit over everything and then fork off ) or have the McDonalds mentality to events ( Turn up when everything is done ,pay their money ,ride then fork off and leave their mess for everyone else to clean up ).
Junior Parents are a good example of how clubs get fuct over by a few with their own agendas.
That's generalising and of course not all the older blokes are active club members and not all the younger ones are noisy tired pricks ;D
Any club should run the way the ACTIVE committee sees fit, adding classes for a noisy few will be the death knoll but if those who want change are active within the club then let their voice be heard .
Good luck to the club witch ever way you go :)
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The members will decide , and it will be a reasonable vote if the current paid up members vote
Its most important to remember , if youre a member and you don't vote , "dont grumble" if it does not go the way you think it should have.
Voice your opinion and have a vote , SUPPORT YOUR CLUB
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In 1986 I was 10 years old. I used to ride my pushy past BW Northcott suzuki in blacktown.
I dreamed of riding one of those bikes!!!! Never did though I had no money no chance of ever riding one let alone racing one.
So much so at around 12 I piched a whipper snipper and put the motor on my old BMX (Also got hammered from the oldman when he saw it)
Anyway I never got a bike untill after my son was born. Now i have a go at riding pre 85 and for sure I am not a quick young gun by any means but i love it.
My point is this I started racing at 38 on a 77 model bike (just one year younger than me).
I would personally love to see pre 90 at Heaven and have sent my vote in as I will be OS.
For me this is a real positive and makes sense.
The only negative is I have to find a pre 90 bike ;D
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Last Chance to send in an Absentee Vote
If your absentee vote is not in by tomorrow 3pm, Friday Oct 31, it is too late
Fax to 0265724826
Email to [email protected]
If you don't have a scanner, we can accept photos of the filled out voting forms taken from your phone.
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I am a Heaven Member 1999 to 2014
If you Do not Like The Changes Then You Need To VOTE
The Member who want the the Changes thay have Allready Voted for the Change ..
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The Pre-90 vote received close to 90% support.
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The Pre-90 vote received close to 90% support.
Awesome!
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Thank fudge for that - our club has a future. :)
A huge congratulations to Kenneth for all his hard work, and thanks to the committee for their work in dealing with all of the administration side of things (particularly Greg S).
This is a happy day. :)
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Now that is great news!
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I'm not a member of Heaven, nor even a New South Welshman anymore, but well done to HeavenVMX and the committee for showing some vision for the future. A united club is a strong club.
In Victoria, clubs are struggling to get the numbers to make running events a profitable exercise. It's a struggle to break even apparently.
I for one reckon there is too much division in Victorian VMX. 2 registered clubs being CSC and Viper and 1 register VCM.
I think it's about time that an amalgamation of the 3 was given an opportunity of bringing the Victorian VMX scene back to what it once was. As it stands, there are 3 clubs trying to take different chunks out of what is essentially, a very small market.
Again, well done to HeavenVMX for voting on a positive future.
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Will be interested to see if Pre 90 bolsters the Heaven numbers or just gives a few standing members the option of riding another class.
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The Pre-90 vote received close to 90% support.
I would Like to know How Many Vote Not a % of Vote
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i could of heard, 81 -17,but i was sitting down the back,(little hard of hearing too ::)),someone will correct me no doubt, :P
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Great result !! as a former Heaven club member from 2001 -2007,I think it's a great move into the future.
I am sure our mate Magoo is smiling up there.He was a proponent of pre 90 like most forward thinkers.
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Will be interested to see if Pre 90 bolsters the Heaven numbers or just gives a few standing members the option of riding another class.
Most of the Norths/Retro regulars will now join, and participate in pre-85 races too.
I sent out an SMS to a few of the Norths blokes this morning - and two of them immediately asked if I knew of any Pre-85 bikes for sale (that's in addition to the one who took a gamble and bought a Pre-85 bike a month back...).
I'm certainly going to get to a hell of a lot more Heaven events in 2015 than I have done in the last couple of years.
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When VERi got an almost unanimous vote to remain Pre-85, it seemed obvious that a club with an established Pre-85 agenda would have a majority of members who wanted it to remain Pre-85.
That HEAVEN (as an established Pre-85 club) had a very strong vote for change, says that the change was well overdue.
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Yes this is a very positive way forward into the future for our great club.
Again well done to Kenneth Swan for all the tireless effort and hard work he has put into this initiative.
Yes Ted - it will be interesting to see... but something that will be difficult to guage.
Don't forget - there are a lot of us in Heaven that already have a Pre-90 MX bike !! :D
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When VERi got an almost unanimous vote to remain Pre-85, it seemed obvious that a club with an established Pre-85 agenda would have a majority of members who wanted it to remain Pre-85.
That HEAVEN (as an established Pre-85 club) had a very strong vote for change, says that the change was well overdue.
Maybe, but as Ken said, holding the vote at Lakes didn't hurt its chances either.
Dave, I know lots of Heaven guys have Pre 90 bikes. In fact wasn't the first bike you built for Heaven Pre 85 such a bike. Wish you still had it ;D
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haha.. yeah I had that same chat with Justin W. yesterday Ted.... :P
The fact that the Pre-90 guys are thinking about older bikes as well is a sure sign for the club! ;D
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This whole exercise, was a healthy example of how a democratic process can be conducted to ascertain the wishes of the club members, and will hopefully be a great move for the club.
The decision to time the vote at The Lakes was for a couple of reasons. To give me as much time as I could to get around to as many members as I could, including the Gloucester Vinduro, on Sunday the week prior, to state my case for this change, where I received strong support from most of those I spoke to, and for the vote to take place at a venue which was close to the majority of the members, to make it as accessible as possible for the majority, 'for' and 'against', and at an event which traditionally has high numbers.
While I have obviously been 'for' this motion, it was important as many club members as possible voted, so the final vote tally was a true reflection of what the members wanted. There was no point in this being voted up, if it truly wasn't what the true majority wanted. In the weeks leading up to the vote, the vote was promoted on this forum, on the Heaven VMX Facebook Page, on the Heaven VMX website, to the point of harassment, and in multiple emails to the whole Heaven VMX member list, to ensure no member, 'for' or 'against', was not aware of it. It seems from the roll up, there was a good cross section of the members who attended.
I would also like to make this very important point.
This result was from the votes of regular Heaven VMX members. There are a number of Pre-90 riders, at least 20 or more, who are not current Heaven members, and wanted this vote to be positive so they could ride with us. Knowing for some time that this vote was in the wind, they had the option to join our club and heavily influence the outcome. They collectively chose not to do this, as they felt that the right thing to do was to leave the decision to the existing members. I found this admirable, these are the kinds of people, with this sort of integrity, I am happy we are now able to welcome into our club.
I look forward to 2015, a new era in Heaven VMX's rich history.
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I would also like to make this very important point.
This result was from the votes of regular Heaven VMX members. There are a number of Pre-90 riders, at least 20 or more, who are not current Heaven members, and wanted this vote to be positive so they could ride with us. Knowing for some time that I was working on this, they had the option to join our club and heavily influence the outcome. They collectively chose not to do this, as they felt that the right thing to do was to leave the decision to the existing members. If you ask me, these are the kinds of people, with this sort of integrity, I am happy to welcome into our club.
Well said and well done Kenneth.
As the secretary of Northern Districts MCC and also as a long time HEAVEN member and advocator of the inclusion of Pre '90, can I just say how happy I am to see the club finally make this step.
I did not take part in the vote partially for the reasons that Kenneth mentioned above. I wanted to see how the majority of active members wanted the club to progress. It is those that regularly support the clubs events who should ultimately have the say. I think with the amount of votes received this looks to have occurred.
So now I look forward to HEAVEN getting stronger with an influx of not only our 20 or so regular competitors but also many who have not competed until now. I also have a database of about another 50 riders who have ridden Pre '90 with us over the last three years and are currently not regular competitors with either Norths or HEAVEN.
The future looks good ;D
Cheers
Shaun
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does this mean that vinduros are now pre 90
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does this mean that vinduros are now pre 90
I sure hope so. Unlike in the past, there's nothing stopping them being pre-90 now.
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Anybody know where I can find a pre 90 body to go with my pre 90 bike
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You're not trying to tell us that your body was built after 1989, are you Bill?
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does this mean that vinduros are now pre 90
This is an interesting question.
As Vinduro doesn't exist in the MOMS, unless a club has something in their constitution a promoter/club could run what they want too.
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Until now, Heaven couldn't easily run events for Post-1984 bikes, because the Heaven constitution specified Pre-85 only.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought any club can run any class they want - the MoMS classes are only set in stone for National level events?
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does this mean that vinduros are now pre 90
This is an interesting question.
As Vinduro doesn't exist in the MOMS, unless a club has something in their constitution a promoter/club could run what they want too.
I am led to believe it will be in the MoMS next year.
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And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought any club can run any class they want - the MoMS classes are only set in stone for National level events?
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Depends what your Club Constitution and membership decider is, though all members votes at a meeting are the equal opportunity answer. :)
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does this mean that vinduros are now pre 90
Kenneth Swan told me if Pre 90 gets over the line at Heaven, which it did, all Heaven Vinduro's will be Pre 90.
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Hey Ted, that means you can legally ride your it200 now.
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84 model with a 83 KX 500 front end. That's my story. ;D
The good people at VERi allow a 86 IT 200 as a carry over model for Pre 85