OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: mudguard on September 25, 2014, 08:05:16 pm
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Jap bikes only, Yamaha IT, Kawasaki KDX & Suzuki PE. What was the last year model and engine size for these bikes? In your opinion which is better?
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the KDX 200 ran longer than the other 2, but buggered if i can remember what year? probably early 90's
i think the IT200 went till around 1986? and the PE250 stopped in early 80's (82?)
the best i think is the IT200N / S (1985/6) disc brake front / very light and very fast, a mate of mine had one and as he was doing enduros he did the occasional MX on it and it was nearly as fast with him on it as the 250's he was a Vic A Grade MXer for years before so that did have something to do with it, he even got a few Holeshots.
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83 for the PE "z"
86 for the IT 200
250 and 490 stopped at the "L" in 1984
KDX 200 went to 96 I think...no even 2000? the last A/c was the 88 and then W/C from then
85 was the last A/C kdx 250 and the W/C 250 camel was 88 - 89? needs clarification....
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Some corrections
Last PE175 - 84 'E'
Last PE250 and 400 - 82 'Z' (only few countries got these)
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So not including the Yamaha YZ250WR and the Yamaha WR250, or the Suzuki RMX 250, or Honda CRM 250??
Cheers
Kim
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Ok, so if I'm considering an air cooled model say 84 PE175, 86 IT200, 86KDX200, is anyone a stand out above the rest?
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I still have my 1999 Honda CRM250AR - one of the best bikes i have ever owned.
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IT 200 S 86 Brilliant bike. Parts availability excellent. Just fit 20mm bar risers and slide the forks up 30mm to make it turn.
Don't own the other two. But I own a Kawasaki. If the KDX is anything like a KX avoid at all costs. Parts availability for a KX is hopeless.
At the recent Cookardinia Vinduro IT's numbers would have doubled all other brands combined.
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Thanks Ted. Good to know parts are available, need to take that into account.
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KDX200 went until 2003, later in some third world countries (ie: NZ).
KDX200 is very easy to live with, parts wise. The pre-89 models are a PITA to get plastics for, but nothing else is a drama and DC stops it being a problem.
89-94 models have power valve dramas, but not yet too much of a problem.
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the PE's have good parts availability too I have just found out. (a mate has a 250Z) its a nice little bike to ride....
to ride I would pick the 84 kdx 200 if pre 85 is an issue or the IT490L (rare)
if not, the later 88 kdx is good but the 86 IT is probably slightly better due to better rear brakes.
depends on what you want to ride event wise....
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One thing to remember is that if you are going to ride with VERI is that they include the 86 IT 200 in their Pre 85 criteria. Nothing worse than buying a model that you can't ride where or when you want.
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I've said this before:
83-85 KDX200 compared 84-86 IT200, the IT has better brakes and suspension, the KDX has better engine and handling.
86 KDX vs 86 IT is a clear win to the green bike.
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Nath I'm not selling IT 200's.
However after hearing what Joel said after getting off his broken 86 KDX 200 ( on the first lap ) and riding Daryls bog stock standard 84 IT 200 I am solely forming this opinion. He simply said the IT did everything better. I also rode Daryls 200 and thought it was a boat compared to my 200. The KDX stripped the gear shaft, exactly the same as my KX 500 had previously done. Try and buy a new one. You may say just put a good used one in. I wouldn't bother pulling the motor apart and fitting anything but a new one. Go to any of the aftermarket sites and check out availability of IT parts, mods and accessories and they will be ten fold of what is available for Kawasaki.
You saw the amount of IT's at Cookardinia as opposed to the KDX's. Sure the Kawasaki may or may not have been better but the question I would ask is " if they are so good where are they all now." Lying in bits waiting for parts would be my guess.
It is far easier to live with a Yamaha than a Kawasaki. As evidenced on the weekend, plenty agree.
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Hmmm... That event was particularly heavily promoted on the IT forum, and they sold more ITs than KDXes back in the day (just like they sell more 4Ts than 2Ts today... :) ).
If old mate's KDX motor wasn't clearly superior, then either it was a very special IT or the was something wrong with the KDX.
Motor stuff is easy for a KDX because they were the same basic motor from 83 to 03. Stuff like rod kits were the same part all the way through (and shared with several years of KX125).
Shocks and forks are generic Kayaba stuff (83-88 rear shock is almost identical to floater RM125 among others), so there's no drama there.
Wheels don't have those stupid bloody Z-spokes.
KDXes don't crack barrels.
You don't need to be a midget to avoid feeling cramped on a KDX.
I'm not saying the IT is a shitbox, nor that the KDX is a perfect bike - they not have their strengths and weaknesses - and the KDX's strengths are more important to me.
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I know its not apples vs apples, but have a ride on my 89 KDX. You'll take the IT to Simmsmetal on the way home... ;)
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Just bought an IT175, DG head, White Bros rear end. Needs a tune but hoping it's enough power for an old wobbler
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im with Nathan on this, the kdx engine is much easier to live with than the squirty IT. the ride was nicer and handling superior. the IT brakes were better..much better.
no doubt with a little engine work you could make the IT engine better but with a kdx, you just wack on a 240 barrel and sayonara to everything else....
the IT's haven't gone down the path of the KDX's in ending up in kids hands and being flogged till they bust. the nikasil engines saw a lot pushed into sheds and wrecked. the rear hubs are poor and flogged out easily. I don't know anyone who has had a gearbox issue with kdx's, only lunched barrels from no maintenance and flogged out dogbones....
still. if you can find a good it for sale...go for it. but a PE 250 is a great cheap bike with only the suspension at issue and good pair of shox works wonders
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Obviously lm bias with a name like kdx Geoff :)
l used to ride a 175 back in the 80's and when l decided to get back on the bike after maybe 15 years, l was realistic enough to realise that my 175 wasn't the best ride for me now.
l ended up with a tidy 85' kdx250 that l serviced up and have now ridden for a year with no issues.
The unitraks tend to be neglected and need to be stripped and serviced, the greaseable pivot bolts wear and l bought new ones of ebay. The clutch was grabby when cold but a couple of boxes of atf fixed that. Change the fork oil and normal servicing and off we go. No stripped gear levers or bits falling off, just a very reliable bike. There's no issue with getting the rear shock rebuilt or buying the parts if you want to do it yourself. l just fitted a new top end and have bought another genuine piston and but l couldn't buy a new base gasket so l had to make one myself. A throttle cable from a 91 kdx fits (new from the dealer). A lot of parts interchange between the 200' and 250's too.
l find the unitrak very plush to ride and the front end simular. There's plenty of mid range power and the bike is very easy to ride in that rev range. The top end is good and the bottom end power is adequate.
The bike has dragged me (around 100kg ready to ride) around the likes of Blackwood, Harrow and Three Bridges and lm never concerned about the reliability or if its capable of what's ahead.
That said, on the down side is the rear brake. It won't work after a dunking in muddy water so while my front brake is reliable the rear is toast in the wet. l cant get a new rear guard nor side covers but l do have good used ones as spares.
Buy what ever color you heart tells you to buy, spend a few grand on a good one (there's plenty of rough one's out there pretending to be a good), service it up and go for a ride.
Cheers
kdx Geoff
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Just bought an IT175, DG head, White Bros rear end. Needs a tune but hoping it's enough power for an old wobbler
I reckon I know that bike Col..
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Want to service it for me John while I drum up some more good riding for you?. Great to see you and Russell at Harrisville last weekend.
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Nath I'm not selling IT 200's.
However after hearing what Joel said after getting off his broken 86 KDX 200 ( on the first lap ) and riding Daryls bog stock standard 84 IT 200 I am solely forming this opinion. He simply said the IT did everything better. I also rode Daryls 200 and thought it was a boat compared to my 200. The KDX stripped the gear shaft, exactly the same as my KX 500 had previously done. Try and buy a new one. You may say just put a good used one in. I wouldn't bother pulling the motor apart and fitting anything but a new one. Go to any of the aftermarket sites and check out availability of IT parts, mods and accessories and they will be ten fold of what is available for Kawasaki.
You saw the amount of IT's at Cookardinia as opposed to the KDX's. Sure the Kawasaki may or may not have been better but the question I would ask is " if they are so good where are they all now." Lying in bits waiting for parts would be my guess.
It is far easier to live with a Yamaha than a Kawasaki. As evidenced on the weekend, plenty agree.
Ted, do you mean the splines on the selector shaft stripped/sheared so the change pedal is flopping around?
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Mudguard, or anybody else for that matter, If you want a going 86 KDX 200 Joel said you can have his for under $1,000. A bargain for this model so I'm informed.
He is located near Albury on the border. He will deliver it for free if you are on the way from Albury to Woolongong as he will be picking up his IT from there.
If you are keen call me on 0407004473
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Nath I'm not selling IT 200's.
However after hearing what Joel said after getting off his broken 86 KDX 200 ( on the first lap ) and riding Daryls bog stock standard 84 IT 200 I am solely forming this opinion. He simply said the IT did everything better. I also rode Daryls 200 and thought it was a boat compared to my 200. The KDX stripped the gear shaft, exactly the same as my KX 500 had previously done. Try and buy a new one. You may say just put a good used one in. I wouldn't bother pulling the motor apart and fitting anything but a new one. Go to any of the aftermarket sites and check out availability of IT parts, mods and accessories and they will be ten fold of what is available for Kawasaki.
You saw the amount of IT's at Cookardinia as opposed to the KDX's. Sure the Kawasaki may or may not have been better but the question I would ask is " if they are so good where are they all now." Lying in bits waiting for parts would be my guess.
It is far easier to live with a Yamaha than a Kawasaki. As evidenced on the weekend, plenty agree.
Ted, do you mean the splines on the selector shaft stripped/sheared so the change pedal is flopping around?
Yes, on my KX .
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Most Yammies can have that changed without splitting the cases or even taking the engine out of the frame. You can still buy new ones from Yamaha for most models as well! Another plus for the ease of maintenance and repair there. Those things near on always bend in a crash. Plus a 30 Y.O shaft will almost always have worn splines and grooves where the oil seal runs.
Just for info, not making a case for the Yamaha in particular.
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Still available for the 86 KDX200. US$46 on MrCycles.
I'm 99% sure it is the same art as the 84/85 models too.
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IT 200 went to 87, it was basically the same bike as the 84 but with a disc front end which first appeared in 86. It appears the fork inners were the same, they only changed the lower legs and hub.
Air cooled KDX went 83-86 but also in 86 the C2 model was born which was the powervalve, disc brake model.
They still had the early model in 86 with compliance as the C2 model was the US spec version.
It got compliance for 87 and continued in 88.
86 C2 was silver frame, 87 & 88 were green frames and came with battery holders and indicator tags etc. The 87/88 were known as 'D' models in Aust but were still 'C' models in the US
89 was the first of the watercooled KDX
I test rode the IT & KDX in 86 out the back of K & J, the KDX felt like the stronger motor so that's what I bought.
Don't remember having any trouble with the back brake back then, I will reconfirm this in 10 years time when I will hopefully get around to getting one of mine running again :o
Kawasakis were always an acquired taste and they didn't sell that many back then which is why you don't see that many these days (plus I have a few locked away ;D)
I think most brands & models have an unobtainable part of some sort, if you have money in your pocket you will be able to get most of what you need to keep anything running, it's only the showroom spec guys that have trouble trying to make them match the brochure.
Buy what ever colour matches your riding gear and spend the time to set it up to suit you.
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IT 200 went to 87, it was basically the same bike as the 84 but with a disc front end which first appeared in 86. It appears the fork inners were the same, they only changed the lower legs and hub.
Air cooled KDX went 83-86 but also in 86 the C2 model was born which was the powervalve, disc brake model.
They still had the early model in 86 with compliance as the C2 model was the US spec version.
It got compliance for 87 and continued in 88.
86 C2 was silver frame, 87 & 88 were green frames and came with battery holders and indicator tags etc. The 87/88 were known as 'D' models in Aust but were still 'C' models in the US
89 was the first of the watercooled KDX
I test rode the IT & KDX in 86 out the back of K & J, the KDX felt like the stronger motor so that's what I bought.
Don't remember having any trouble with the back brake back then, I will reconfirm this in 10 years time when I will hopefully get around to getting one of mine running again :o
Kawasakis were always an acquired taste and they didn't sell that many back then which is why you don't see that many these days (plus I have a few locked away ;D)
I think most brands & models have an unobtainable part of some sort, if you have money in your pocket you will be able to get most of what you need to keep anything running, it's only the showroom spec guys that have trouble trying to make them match the brochure.
Buy what ever colour matches your riding gear and spend the time to set it up to suit you.
And I believed you when you said you weren't a drinker!
The 86 model was the C1.
/pedant.
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Yes your right, obviously I drink too much tea.
Must give it up and get back on the Bourbon
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Is the Yamaha WR 250 97 and 2002to 2004 2t included dt200 to 99
Also the Susuki RMX 250 2t all had lights and could be road regoed
The Stig
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Was trying to compare the PE, IT & KDX 200cc range Stig.
Are the 86 models KDX & IT eligible for Pre 85 classes?
From whats mentioned on this topic the IT seems to be basically an 84 with some extras and the KDX ( C1 ) 84 to 86 similar?
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First generation of KDX200 was: A (83), B1 (84) and B2 (85). It was loosely based on the KX125s of 1982/83
The C1 in 1986 is a significantly updated bike - exhaust power valve, 43mm forks with front disc, etc. It is loosely based on the 1984/85 KX125s.
So while most Vinduro organisers happily turn a blind eye to trail and enduro bikes that may not meet the 1985 cut-off but don't have USD forks or a rear disc, the 86~88 KDXes are not carry-over bikes.
The 86 IT200 is basically the exact same bike as the 84 & 85 models. So while the 86's front disc stops it being a strict carry-over model, it is much closer than the 86 KDX.
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An excerpt from VERi motorcycle eligibility : The following models were not made prior to 1985 and are physically different to 1984 models but are considered 'old school' so are welcome to VERi events.
1985-1987 Yamaha IT 200
So to answer your question the 86 IT is eligible but the 86 KDX is not
This will only be a hurdle if you intend to ride VERi events. But I suppose you could ask them if it's ok to ride a 86 KDX.
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If you turned up at a vinduro on a 84 onward aircooled KDX i doubt you would have a problem. I don't understand why the cut off is 84. Why not just make it no rear disk brake/ or 1988?
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Pre 85
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If you turned up at a vinduro on a 84 onward aircooled KDX i doubt you would have a problem. I don't understand why the cut off is 84. Why not just make it no rear disk brake/ or 1988?
The sad irony is that nobody seems to understand what changed from 1984 to 1985 to make it the relevant cut-off. It's the The Policy.
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its basically a line between single shock disc brake watercooled technology. its a rough line but that's where its drawn. got to have a line somewhere.
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Yeah, I get that - but if you're aiming for technology cut-offs, why use a date?
And if you are going to use a date, is 1984 the best one?
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last of the twin shox basically...good a date as any. the VERI plan was basically air cooled twin shock drum brake but so many overlap models occur you leave a lot of guys out n the cold with single shockers, watercooled twin shocks, disc brake air cooled Xrs so its a call. I think its an ok call, gets all the older bikes out. if Mick can get his pre 2000 series going that will cater for the RMX WR Yamaha etc etc and the double disc set nicely. will bring a whole lot of new riders back into the fold.