OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Competition => Topic started by: YZAT252 on September 03, 2014, 07:37:28 pm
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Ok considering an EVO 125, what should I look for?
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I love my YZ125F. Depends on height & weight.
YZ125G would be better for taller riders
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I don't think there's a bad choice among them (athough I've never ridden a KX125A5).
My clapped out YZ125E with 125G forks and a lengthened shock was the least-peaky of them, but lacked the outright grunt too.
Without looking too carefully at spares availabilty, it seems that the RM-N/T would be the easiest to get and keep at race spec, closely followed by the YZ125G.
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A 77 RM 125 B just won the recent Post Classic Championship in the Evo class on a track some rated as bike breaking. And you can also ride it in Pre 78
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A 77 RM 125 B just won the recent Post Classic Championship in the Evo class on a track some rated as bike breaking. And you can also ride it in Pre 78
Rider has nothing to do with it, Ted?
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Just dispelling the belief that you need a foot of travel each end to have a race winning Evo bike.
For Matt to finish first he also had to first finish. Something the B did easily and comfortably. And you can ride it in Pre 78. :D
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Surely the same guy on a YZ125G would be way faster than the RM125B in lap times on any track? I do like the 'can ride 2 different classes on one bike' angle tho
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Why would he be way faster?
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Come and buy my nice YZ125G .. Sunshine Coast, Very original bike but has had freshen up and complete rebuild before 2014 Nationals at Toowoomba. Was leading evo 125 (with that young gun and top kid, Liam Beverly riding it) before seizing on the 2nd lap. I've since honed the bore and put a NOS Yamaha piston and rings back in (removing the wiseco/siezco one originally provided by Serco).
For more details send me a PM :)
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or,
I love my YZ125F. Depends on height & weight.
i love my YZ125F too...
but too many bikes,
so its on the shortlist for sale should you want one...
in Brisbane ;)
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Why would he be way faster?
Because the 1980 YZ125 was the best bike that year and that's 3 years later than the RM125B. Back then, one year model change was WAY better than another. Even in the 80s if you tried to race the 125 into next year or the year after, good luck with that! I tried!
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Come and buy my nice YZ125G .. Sunshine Coast, Very original bike but has had freshen up and complete rebuild before 2014 Nationals at Toowoomba. Was leading evo 125 (with that young gun and top kid, Liam Beverly riding it) before seizing on the 2nd lap. I've since honed the bore and put a NOS Yamaha piston and rings back in (removing the wiseco/siezco one originally provided by Serco).
For more details send me a PM :)
Mate. How many bikes have you got?
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Come and buy my nice YZ125G .. Sunshine Coast, Very original bike but has had freshen up and complete rebuild before 2014 Nationals at Toowoomba. Was leading evo 125 (with that young gun and top kid, Liam Beverly riding it) before seizing on the 2nd lap. I've since honed the bore and put a NOS Yamaha piston and rings back in (removing the wiseco/siezco one originally provided by Serco).
For more details send me a PM :)
Mate. How many bikes have you got?
A few .. but I'd like to unload some and have less ... that's the plan :)
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Why would he be way faster?
Because the 1980 YZ125 was the best bike that year and that's 3 years later than the RM125B. Back then, one year model change was WAY better than another. Even in the 80s if you tried to race the 125 into next year or the year after, good luck with that! I tried!
If you are an absolute gun then yes , i dont know you or how you ride so i cant comment . But as Ted says an RM 125 B , or YZ125D/E are very very competitive in EVO in the right hands . A bike that was both technicaly and on paper better than the model 3 yrs older wont nessercerly make a wobbler a champion any more than an older bike will push a champion to the back of the field ;)
Buy a bike that you are happy on , not one the magazines tell you will make you a winner . In my 40 yrs of racing i have found its approx 10/15% bike and 85/90% rider that makes a winner ;)
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Why would he be way faster?
Because the 1980 YZ125 was the best bike that year and that's 3 years later than the RM125B. Back then, one year model change was WAY better than another. Even in the 80s if you tried to race the 125 into next year or the year after, good luck with that! I tried!
How do you then explain this comment from young Sam Tillbrook, the winner of the recent Australian Classic Champs Pre 78 125
" I am riding this Yamaha 77 125 D faster around this track than I do on my modern 125"
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Not much difference in outright power between a modern 125 & a vintage, just that the modern is a little more civilized & can generally stop a lot quicker. In my experience the lower VMX bike can get around corners way quicker than moderns, corners for dough, jumps for show.
The real question in this thread should be what 125 for Joe Average, middle age who still has to fund his racing & go to work on Monday? It's a far call from a young, fit, fearless pup riding someone else's bike at a national event.
K
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Lower centre of gravity Exactly
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You can buy more bits and customise a Honda more than any other. I always liked the T model Suz myself.
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because we have been sold a pup with new bikes. apart from brakes, I wonder if there really is 30 years better development?
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A 2014 YZ125 vs. a YZ125D-G? I love my old bikes, but we are getting out there now. :)
The gap between 1990 and 2014 is probably not much, but from 1980 to the mid-80's is a pretty good jump.
CR125 (1980), YZ125 (1980) and RM125 (1979-80) would all be great choices!
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I have had and raced ( myself) RM 125 B ,Rm 125 T, Yz G YZF and KXA5 , all good bikes and all a bit different , any of them would do anyone anytime ,Like Bill said if it is for VMX and not title chasing , Ie you are going to ride it yourself just buy the colour you like.
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because we have been sold a pup with new bikes. apart from brakes, I wonder if there really is 30 years better development?
Take the powervalve out of a 125 and I cannot see nearly 40 years performance increase
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If you can find one the 1980/1981 KTM is a good thing. Dennis even looks fast on his. A bit tall thou if you are a short ass.
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(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/yz125_zps5d1773cb.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/1266869447_75713279_1-Fotos-de-YAMAHA-YZ-125-1980_zps9ce9c972.jpg)
1980 model is prettier. ;)
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I can't help but notice the coincidence that its Bill and Ted who are arguing that Pre-78 bikes are good Evo bikes... Sounds like a Bogus Journey to me...
;D
The rider is the single biggest determining factor for sure, but any given rider will go faster on the better bike. And on the majority of tracks we ride in 2014, the 1979/80 models have a clear advantage over (standard) 1977/78 models.
Anyone who thinks a 1970s 125 motor is even close to a 2000+ one, clearly hasn't ridden at least one of the bikes they're talking about. The old bikes give away at least 20% peak power, and are far peakier - and unlike the Evo-era 500s, most riders will be able to hold a 125 pinned at least a couple of times per lap, so everyone can feel/appreciate the difference.
Sorry for the rant, but jeez...
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Well argue the FACT with young Sam then . QUOTE " I ride this 77 125 D faster than my modern 125 on this track
He has absolutely no vested interest in this bike apart from riding it.
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Maybe he just thinks it feels faster. What does the stopwatch say. Get him to enter the D in a modern race. What a load of crap.
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2:06 Fastest time of all capacities all weekend on a 77 D
Not crap Just fact
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We had a modern grasstrack mx meeting with one jump and a good long straight, so it was a smooth track at the start of the day. In masters (over 33 yrs) I rode my rm125b against 32 modern bikes (mainly 450 four strokes) I got 3 2nds places for a 2nd place overall for the day.
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I see no one has asked which is the best 500 class EVO bike yet.
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Maybe he just thinks it feels faster. What does the stopwatch say. Get him to enter the D in a modern race. What a load of crap.
That's a bit bloody rude ::) how do you know he hasn't had his laps timed .
I am definitely quicker around most tracks on the older bikes , I cannot for the life of me gel with modern bikes . To tall brakes work to well and sure there's more power than the old bike , but I don't bullshit myself that I can ride either bike to anywhere near its full potential , so it make no odds to me .
I occasionally let a young mate ( top A grader who has raced in Europe and the MXDN ) race my old bikes at modern meetings. He makes a barn find RM 125B do things I doubt they ever did in the day and will win b grade races easily on it .
Sure put him on a modern 125 and he will win the A grade race , but that's because he can get the most out of both bikes .
Nathan I like the bogus journey touch ;D I think you say ill pay that :)
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I see no one has asked which is the best 500 class EVO bike yet.
Ok kev I will play YZ 465 H ;) although really its the YZ 465G as the cut off should be 1980 at the latest . 1980 linkage bikes were readily available to the punters, and by 1981 almost all the manufacturers had linkage bikes available to the public .
The obvious exceptions being Maico, Yamaha and husky . The Evo class if you compare it with athletics is a bit like the special Olympics . They ban bikes that were fit and able in the day and cater for the disabled or handicapped if you like ie the 81 Maico.
The only reason our disabled friend shines so brightly in evo is that the able bodied runners from the 1981 era are excluded due to the fact that they are considered advanced ( able bodied ).
The 81 Maico in the day was old hat , yes its a great handling bike ( for a twin shock ) but in the day it was old technology and when the track got rough they were getting cleaned up in open races by RM 125Xs ( in Europe, don't know about here )
The Evo class was built to cater for these disabled dinosaurs , but a YZ 465G will still give them a good run .
Going on the form that allows 81 Maicos into EVO , ole mate should really be able to buy and race a 1981 RM 125X in Evo 125 , then you can hear them all say "where the fluck did he go ;)
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I facts are a bike sitting lower to the ground will handle better than a taller bike, what do Dirt Trackers do, they lower their bikes . Modern 125s apart from maybe KTM and now Husqvarna (same motor) have had no development for years. Anyway older 125s have a much more peaker power than a more modern 125, so it takes a good fit rider to use that power.
Really I would like to see the 125 class make a comeback for modern MX especially for the Clubman riders. They are a lot cheaper to run than that noisy, smelly, expensive four stroke shit.
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I see no one has asked which is the best 500 class EVO bike yet.
Ok kev I will play YZ 465 H ;) although really its the YZ 465G as the cut off should be 1980 at the latest . 1980 linkage bikes were readily available to the punters, and by 1981 almost all the manufacturers had linkage bikes available to the public .
The obvious exceptions being Maico, Yamaha and husky . The Evo class if you compare it with athletics is a bit like the special Olympics . They ban bikes that were fit and able in the day and cater for the disabled or handicapped if you like ie the 81 Maico.
The only reason our disabled friend shines so brightly in evo is that the able bodied runners from the 1981 era are excluded due to the fact that they are considered advanced ( able bodied ).
The 81 Maico in the day was old hat , yes its a great handling bike ( for a twin shock ) but in the day it was old technology and when the track got rough they were getting cleaned up in open races by RM 125Xs ( in Europe, don't know about here )
The Evo class was built to cater for these disabled dinosaurs , but a YZ 465G will still give them a good run .
Going on the form that allows 81 Maicos into EVO , ole mate should really be able to buy and race a 1981 RM 125X in Evo 125 , then you can hear them all say "where the fluck did he go ;)
Bill I see you are still a MAICO Basher. Have you ever ridden one?
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Old bikes have their strengths. There are times and places where I am faster on an old bike than a new one.
But race after race, rain hail or shine, moderns are faster - much faster - we haven't spent the last 30 years developing bikes to make them slower...
If anyone doesn't believe me, they could try to convince any of the talented aspirational privateer riders to leave their modern bike at home and front up to the MX Nats on a pre-85 bike... If anyone succedes, then let me know how much it cost you. ;)
Hell, I just remembered that I've played with the moderns on an old bike quite recently... The KDX is a good thing and suits me very well, but there are definitely places where it cost me time and/or effort compared to a modern - and I'm not just talking about the time when the fork leg underhang stopped me in a rut...
The idea of some of those downhills with double drums makes me cringe.
Really I would like to see the 125 class make a comeback for modern MX especially for the Clubman riders. They are a lot cheaper to run than that noisy, smelly, expensive four stroke shit.
I could not agree more!
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I see no one has asked which is the best 500 class EVO bike yet.
Ok kev I will play YZ 465 H ;) although really its the YZ 465G as the cut off should be 1980 at the latest . 1980 linkage bikes were readily available to the punters, and by 1981 almost all the manufacturers had linkage bikes available to the public .
The obvious exceptions being Maico, Yamaha and husky . The Evo class if you compare it with athletics is a bit like the special Olympics . They ban bikes that were fit and able in the day and cater for the disabled or handicapped if you like ie the 81 Maico.
The only reason our disabled friend shines so brightly in evo is that the able bodied runners from the 1981 era are excluded due to the fact that they are considered advanced ( able bodied ).
The 81 Maico in the day was old hat , yes its a great handling bike ( for a twin shock ) but in the day it was old technology and when the track got rough they were getting cleaned up in open races by RM 125Xs ( in Europe, don't know about here )
The Evo class was built to cater for these disabled dinosaurs , but a YZ 465G will still give them a good run .
Going on the form that allows 81 Maicos into EVO , ole mate should really be able to buy and race a 1981 RM 125X in Evo 125 , then you can hear them all say "where the fluck did he go ;)
Bill I see you are still a MAICO Basher. Have you ever ridden one?
Kev I have owned several inc 81 models , Im not a Maico basher as I said the 81 490 is a great handling machine but my favourites are the 77 AWs and the 79 models .
Yours was a leading question and I gave my opinion . The 81 490 only shines as the class is geared towards OLD technology rather than an era like all other classes .
You are the Australian poster boy for the 81 Maico 490 in much the same way I could be considered the poster boy for the 1975 RM 125S and the 1981 RM 125X . I cannot race my RM 125S in pre 75 ( fair enough its a 75 model ) or my 81 RM125X in Evo as it is technologically advanced compared to those 81 twinshock models .
You opened with a leading question and I responded :)
Really I would like to see the 125 class make a comeback for modern MX especially for the Clubman riders. They are a lot cheaper to run than that noisy, smelly, expensive four stroke shit.
Agree 100%
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A couple of things here.
The first time I rode the RM X 125 I was gob smacked how much faster I could ride it on rough ground over the older twin shock bikes. A few laps on the X and I didnt want to ride twin shock bikes for another 20 years.
Most of our VMX tracks are so much smoother that back in the day.
When I first started ridding VMX way back in 91 I used to race B grade crass track on my YZ 250 A with the current models and finish at the pointy end. I did not race it at MX thou.
What do you trail ride? Yeah it's one thing getting around a track but if you think Im taking a RM 125 B trail ridding think agian. Ill load up my modern YZ two stroke.
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Back in the day I raced a RM125B, RM125T & RM125X. The T was a lot better than a B and the X a lot better than a T.
As previously said the smooth tracks we ride have lot to do with earlier era bikes being competitive in later classes.
Next year I might put Matt or Jacob Dank on my CR125RA and then see how they go..If it's a demanding track it will make a difference.
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As for the best Evo 125, I can't split the RM, CR or YZ with the KX close behind..
Personally I'd go RM or CR.
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Back in the day I raced a RM125B, RM125T & RM125X. The T was a lot better than a B and the X a lot better than a T.
As previously said the smooth tracks we ride have lot to do with earlier era bikes being competitive in later classes.
Next year I might put Matt or Jacob Dank on my CR125RA and then see how they go..If it's a demanding track it will make a difference.
Give them both a bike John, you've got plenty ;D
Set them for the Conondale Classic next year. I'm sure Liam and hopefully Sam could come and make a race of it. Seeing them four lads, all pinned, would be something to see. No 6 minutes motos though ::)
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Hi,
I'd love to see a Pre 75 125 race with The Dank boys , the Brisbane Hillbillys, Jack McMahon John Kemp etc and those class riders , joined by the Pre 85 pre 90 Guns , but all on pre75 125 class bikes ,
Cheers
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Back in the day I raced a RM125B, RM125T & RM125X. The T was a lot better than a B and the X a lot better than a T.
As previously said the smooth tracks we ride have lot to do with earlier era bikes being competitive in later classes.
Next year I might put Matt or Jacob Dank on my CR125RA and then see how they go..If it's a demanding track it will make a difference.
Give them both a bike John, you've got plenty ;D
Set them for the Conondale Classic next year. I'm sure Liam and hopefully Sam could come and make a race of it. Seeing them four lads, all pinned, would be something to see. No 6 minutes motos though ::)
That's a definite possibility Ted!
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See what you started Craig :)
Are you going to change the 250 for an evo 125?
Ken
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1974,75,76. Kawasaki Kx 125 and the Cr125m Rm125 S, and the RM125 A model is my choice.
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I love to do some shoot outs at classic dirt one year. Bring it on I say ;)