OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: zorroz on July 03, 2008, 09:31:14 am

Title: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: zorroz on July 03, 2008, 09:31:14 am
Found some good sites. Seems like the Dutch are right into vintage bikes and going by the bikes, if it ain't twin shock, make 'em twin shock!!

http://www.dutchtwinshock.nl/english.html


(http://www.dutchtwinshock.nl/hartliefriijders2007.jpg)
(http://www.dutchtwinshock.nl/KARELALBERS2004.jpg)
(http://www.dutchtwinshock.nl/devid1.jpg)
(http://www.dutchtwinshock.nl/DULMEN2.jpg)
(http://www.dutchtwinshock.nl/suzuki2008.JPG)
(http://www.dutchtwinshock.nl/denniswarmerdam500cc.jpg)

Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: Graeme M on July 03, 2008, 10:00:51 am
Ingenious, but kinda dumb I think. Why?
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: TM BILL on July 03, 2008, 10:06:55 am
Ingenious, but kinda dumb I think. Why?

I agree Graeme to me it defys the whole vintage concept ??? ??? i think it is a simillar situation in the UK   ::)
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: YSS on July 03, 2008, 10:46:12 am
Do they have KTMs 08 and Husaberg 08  with twinshocks too? Whats next?
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: suzuki43 on July 03, 2008, 10:49:47 am
What a crime to destroy the mighty Full Floater Suzukis,I am appalled.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: TM BILL on July 03, 2008, 11:16:36 am
I suppose its a completly different concept to Vintage MX
 
Twin shock , drum brakes , air cooled

So buy an air cooled mx bike then set about wrecking it  ::) ie replace the suspension that works , the disc brakes that work  and go racing  ::) different but whatever butters your cracker  :-\ maybe theres a shortage of true twinshock vintage bikes over there  ???

But in Europe and the UK they entertain that pre 90 nonsense to  ::) thats probably where the 08 Husabergs and KTMs fit in  :-\
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: Wombat on July 03, 2008, 12:04:57 pm
Can we call it 'customising'?
I'm not saying I'd do it but Choppers and Muscle cars etc are chopped up and 'pimped' to death.
Chopping/altering dirt bikes is a whole new concept (to us) but I'm sure those Cloggies enjoy roosting dirt as much as the Purists.

Some people are offended by the bling craze, some offended by certain motors in certain frames.
Didn't one of our forum Members cop an anonymous spray (via e-mail) for altering his XR75 in a non traditional way?  
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: Graeme M on July 03, 2008, 01:10:19 pm
I think I am more tolerant than most in this sort of respect, after all people have all sorts of different interests. But I think butchering perfectly good vintage MX bikes so they fit into some arbitrary class structure is a bit over the top. Bloody sacrilege. Blinging UP an old bike can be kinda neat, but mangling DOWN an old bike just offends my sensibilities.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: dave king on July 03, 2008, 05:33:02 pm
I started racing with the new Dutch twinshock club back in 98,  They like there old bikes but they like winning more. They want Big Horsepower for there sandy tracks and they want strong bikes thats why they convert air cooled monos.     The ethos is all about the racing more than the historic value of a bike.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: TM BILL on July 03, 2008, 05:54:15 pm
I started racing with the new Dutch twinshock club back in 98,  They like there old bikes but they like winning more. They want Big Horsepower for there sandy tracks and they want strong bikes thats why they convert air cooled monos.     The ethos is all about the racing more than the historic value of a bike.

Then why not race modern bikes  ??? trust me with me its all about the racing too and obviously every time i line up i want to win, but thats why there are era and capacity classes .

Do they increase the capacity of the bikes also ? I understand they want the horsepower what I cant get my head around is why they have to Bastadize perfectly good bikes .

Is there no class for the single shock big bores ? each to there own but as Graeme says why would you  ???
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: VMX Andrew on July 03, 2008, 05:55:49 pm
that first pick of the honda i just dont understand....why ruin a perfect 84 cr500....twin shocks and yamaha yz 250 forks look absolutely horrible.... :o  
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: TM BILL on July 03, 2008, 05:59:42 pm
2nd photo down seems to have late 90s RM forks  :o
And what are the forks on the #88 RM 500 ?
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: VMX Andrew on July 03, 2008, 06:06:24 pm
looks like husky forks to me tm bill......but i could be wrong.... :o
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: DJRacing on July 03, 2008, 06:11:17 pm
2nd photo down seems to have late 90s RM forks  :o
And what are the forks on the #88 RM 500 ?

That suzuki with the modern guards looks bloody terrible, the name on the van should read 'Grosebike' not 'Groesbeek'
and those forks could be off a CCM that ran 50mm forks
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: 090 on July 03, 2008, 06:39:38 pm
A pre 85 class would be a better idea. Im with Graeme
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: Maico31 on July 03, 2008, 06:43:42 pm
That defeats the purpose of racing a vintage bike by using a later model bike and grafting 2 shocks onto it and late model forks, must have pretty loose rules. They do look like '99 or 2000 RM forks on the second bike from the top.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: TM BILL on July 03, 2008, 06:50:53 pm
Is the name twin shock to do with the suspension or the fact that you have to look twice beacause the bikes are so ferking  ugly   ;D
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: dave king on July 03, 2008, 08:24:16 pm
they started a evo mono group last yr, i think 2 entered.  The problem was guys wanted to race the big open aircoolers but there was no class back 10 yrs ago.  Now they all want a  Honda 84CR500 twinshocker.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: geraldo on July 03, 2008, 10:26:16 pm
never trust the common sense of anyone who lives BELOW sea level
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: firko on July 03, 2008, 10:38:53 pm
Words fail me. This goes against every principal of vintage racing. Long live pre '65.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: holeshot buddy on July 03, 2008, 10:40:07 pm
shit i would take pre90
over that any day :D
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: Wombat on July 04, 2008, 02:08:45 pm
....... They like there old bikes but they like winning more. They want Big Horsepower for there sandy tracks and they want strong bikes thats why they convert air cooled monos.     The ethos is all about the racing more than the historic value of a bike.
If their passion is racing and winning, it stands to reason the 'vintage' thing has nothing to do with it.
Perhaps these older bikes are chosen because they're cheaper than moderns.
Cheaper to buy and cheaper to convert to twin shock?

I didn't say I liked it - I'm just trying to understand it...
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: Nathan S on July 04, 2008, 03:38:09 pm
Is the name twin shock to do with the suspension or the fact that you have to look twice beacause the bikes are so ferking  ugly   ;D

Quoted for truth.

The only thing that stops the same happening in out Evo class is a lack of imagination/desire to push the accepted interpretation of our rules (and old fashioned Good Taste).

But anyway, what really confuses me, is: If they butcher their bikes in the name of winning, why are they fitting Maico front brakes?

Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: evo550 on July 04, 2008, 03:43:24 pm
There was a guy at C.R.C a few years ago on a '82 cr480 with twin shock set up racing in the evo class ???
I was confused on a few levels
(1) Why was he allowed to race in the evo class, when there was a pre'85 class.
(2) Why would you want to do the above.
(3) Why do that to a perfectly good pre'85 bike.
Now I think about it I could have beaten him on a protest ;)
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: paul on July 04, 2008, 06:18:23 pm
walter asked me to post this pic
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/ibop/BangkokMotorshow022.jpg)
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: Maico31 on July 04, 2008, 07:12:24 pm
Nathan someone has turned up to a race with a twin shock setup on a pre '85 bike here before and the scrutineer jumped on it straight away and the bike was banned.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: Tim754 on July 04, 2008, 07:29:56 pm
In no possible way I could ever ever ever agree to those bikes being a VMX class >:(. But am I a hypocrite as my home built VMX and Speedway sidecars are basically butchered road bikes? ??? At least all their parts are pre75 stock.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: TM BILL on July 04, 2008, 07:54:07 pm
walter asked me to post this pic
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g120/ibop/BangkokMotorshow022.jpg)

Tastefully done , wrong but tastefull  :-\
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: Nathan S on July 04, 2008, 08:22:12 pm
Nathan someone has turned up to a race with a twin shock setup on a pre '85 bike here before and the scrutineer jumped on it straight away and the bike was banned.

The someone just needed to argue it differently. ;)
(Which is not to say that I want to encourage that sort of thing, 'cause I don't!).
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: YSS on July 04, 2008, 09:23:54 pm
I only asked Paul to upload this pic for me , because I am not smart enough to do it. It does not mean I support those type of bikes ( Except when they have YSS shocks LOL).  It all went wrong about 5 years ago when it got more and more out of hand  because the rule only said twin shocks. If it was nipped in the buds then it would have been OK , but now there are too many of them to ban them. I can not see to much spirit of the era in this , but the conception has also shifted and with that  purists ,( if you want to call them that) are slowly disapearing unfortunately . Maybe we can learn something from that in Australia before its to late. :o
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: Wombat on July 04, 2008, 09:33:53 pm
I just had another look at the photos and those Cloggies look pretty happy leaning on their bikes.

As much as I like the vintage concept and stand firmly in the 'traditional' class, I can't feel shitty at these blokes. They own those bikes and they race each other.
There's a fair amount of work went into those 'mods' and the owners seem proud of their efforts.

Let's remember it was the Dutch who brought us wooden shoes... it's in their nature to think outside the box. ::)  
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: mainline on July 04, 2008, 10:18:36 pm
ah yes, the freaky deaky Dutch. What a waste of freakin' time, everyone else on the planet is trying to cheat by updating old gear using modern technology, these dickheads are using old gear on modern(ish) technology. Ugly and stupid.

Well done, what about trying to graft some freakin' laser beams onto some sharks.

Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: firko on July 05, 2008, 09:25:47 am
It's already happened here in OZ. A few years ago a Queenslander attempted to pass off a twin shock equipped CR480 (or maybe a 450) as legal. Thankfully it was nipped in the bud.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: YSS on July 05, 2008, 11:16:10 am
The point is Ross , those people have put in alot off effort and skills to build those bikes , but it has little to do with VMX in my opinion. I would call them custom bikes.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: Wombat on July 05, 2008, 11:29:09 am
The point is Ross , those people have put in alot off effort and skills to build those bikes , but it has little to do with VMX in my opinion. I would call them custom bikes.
I'm with Walter.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: oldfart on July 05, 2008, 04:03:26 pm
AS stated the rules where twin shocks .....so they stayed within the rules . In OZ the rules are more defined and that's the way we like it .
 
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: TM BILL on July 05, 2008, 05:11:35 pm
The point is Ross , those people have put in alot off effort and skills to build those bikes , but it has little to do with VMX in my opinion. I would call them custom bikes.

Thats a fair call walter, its just a shame that they are butchering potential VMX bikes and robbing parts off true twinshockers to build these Frankenbikes.

I suppose it grates me the same way classic car people get pissed when a classic car is canabalised to build a "hotrod"

Still i cant save em all  :'(
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: YSS on July 05, 2008, 07:20:35 pm
Racing Ross , Racing is the point . But it is not VMX.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: E74 on July 05, 2008, 07:28:00 pm
THE POINT IS... They are having fun!, and for me ,Thats what it's all about!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: NSR on July 05, 2008, 08:24:04 pm
This Montys OK for evo isn't it?  ;)
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: suzuki27 on July 05, 2008, 08:39:59 pm
My thinking is that what we have followed here in Aus,NZ and the US  etc , since the late 80's is pretty straight forward. If you are in the sport/pastime, you know,mostly, what is OK or not. To me, it gets back to the spirit of the period we are trying to preserve and hopefully perpetuate now and into the future.Within certain limits we /most of us know what that is and means. These bikes shown,are ,as Wombat writes,well done examples,BUT NOT, in the spirit of the era. We need to draw something from this to -"stop the rot", before it all gets too complicated.
Title: Re: Dutch twin shock racing
Post by: suzuki43 on July 06, 2008, 03:05:57 pm
AMEN!!!!!!