OzVMX Forum
Marketplace => For Sale => Topic started by: Lozza on July 02, 2008, 08:45:33 pm
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http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CHENEY-SUZUKI-TM400-VMX-AHRMA-MX-PRE-1975_W0QQitemZ330248293104QQihZ014QQcategoryZ102690QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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I'd love to have it as a partner to my Cheney RT1 Yamaha but the pennies don't stretch enough for complete bikes. It's a very neat piece of kit for someone.
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Can assure you the frame isn't the most trick bit on that either
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like???
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That's the bike that Dave Tanner built a few years ago.
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Gone well past what Dave imported and the new owner will find out what secrets are inside ;)
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So.....Why the big secret Lozza? It's not as if we're all going to rush out to the shed, shouting Hallelujah to the Suzuki Sun Gods, thanking them for the new found wisdom and insider knowhow on how to make our TM400 Suzukis perform like a normal bike should. It's a TM400 in a nice frame. Whatever's inside is irrelevent. ::)
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Its all secret sqirralls :D :D :D :D :D
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Secrets schmeeckrets, doesn't matter what's been done but I'd sure as hell like to know 'beforehand' if I were interested so there'd be no nasty irreversable surprises in store after the fact. This is 'vintage MX' no-ones gonna win a sheep station or the likes, hi-perf tuning secrets for these bikes are long past their use by date and any secrecy needed to keep such vital information from the general public is a little misguided :D I feel most 'mature' riders and serious collectors alike would not be swayed by a 'reputedly' hot motor and infact be more attracted to the stock item ::) Extremely rare and ultra nice race/ride bike though! Unlike the RH/RN at least the parts can still be had reasonably priced and it wouldn't be quite the same risk to the bank account if it did go bang. Be interested to see what sort of bids Cozzie pulls with this beauty ;)
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i would off thought if it was so SPECIAL that it would be a help in the selling of the bike . common sence to my way off thinking
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You could have a kryptonite crank,titanium rod and a piston machined from a solid billet of unobtanium and it wouldn't make any difference to Cozzies beautiful Cheney. The engine is the most unimportant thing on the bike. After all, it's only a TM400 and no matter what spin is put on it they are a pretty ordinary unit. What's with all of this secret stuff anyway Lozza? I agree with the other blokes that if there is something "special" about the engine it'd be a good selling point. It can't be too special to Cozzie as he hasn't mentioned anything in the ad :-\
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i wouldnt mind the frame
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lozza - Massive ports ring a bell
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I dont understand why no one has put their hand up and had a shot at it. Not one bid. ??? ??? Such a rare thing it seems odd their are no punters yet.
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Am thinking modern programmable CDI. and many ports could be what the new owner finds in that beasty.
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Oh...You mean the new owner is going to find that his bike is ilegal? I guess I can see why it's all so secret now. :D
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siding with Lozza, as a reason to buy/bid
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Heck, now I am even interested myself. Where is the valium?
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Yep I am for the stock TM400 motor in the Cheney, Sort of knowing it is going to hurt horrible real soon, but doing it in sublime style.
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This is true oldschool,
some may also say "what of the hybrids, is it not the same"????
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Rules is rules ladies and gentlemen. if the engine appears to be as it came from the factory on the outside then its legal.
maybe a new class could be investigated for OEM bikes only. No PVL No aftermarket shocks no trick bits at all.
I like the cheney TM and atleast its ridable with a decent frame and the engine mods just have to make it less suprise suprise heres the power band.
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Pokey, you're right but programmable ignition and that plug ugly pipe take it way past the moral objectives of our sport. Bikes like Cozzies lovely Cheney need to be preserved as they were intended, not polluted by modern additions. Some people just don't understand what the vintage movement is about and never will.
This adds fuel to the argument that the rulebook does indeed need some revision. Perhaps the AHRMA pipe rules about no tapered headers and fat centre sections should be included. I'm just as guilty as I have a computer designed modern pipe on my Maico. At least mine is deliberately designed to hide the fat section up under the frame so it can't be seen. If the rules changed I'd gladly remove it. I also think that modern ignitions are fine but digital programmable setups take it a bit too far. As Oldschool said, this attitude ruined classic road racing and if we let it go ahead willy nilly as some folks seem to want, pretty soon we'll see monstrosities like the shit Dave Hall built( YZ Yamahas disguised as BSA Bantams or Ariel leaders with late model Suzuki internals) for road racing. A good friend of mine built a Cotton 250 with a CR250 Honda crank, 6 speed Yamaha 125 gearbox and a barrell cast up to look like the original Villiers but containing late model YZ250 ports. This is extreme of course but I've been around this sport for 25 years and know that stuff like this has occasionally turned up in vintage motocross. Luckily the two bikes I refer to were spotted and no longer turn up. The funny thing is that both owners are pro class A graders who don't need to cheat and should have known better.
I'm not calling Cozzie a cheat. He's a nice bloke with a very cool bike collection who was I'm sure, just trying to make his bike ridable. Unfortunately some of the methods used aren't in fitting with the karma of the bike.
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Oh dear................I think a few need a cuppa tea, bex and a good lie down
Speculate as you might but fact is the engine is 100% legal.If you wish to protest feel free to stump up the $50 fee.
Unfortunately it is rules not morals that define the boundries not individuals nor morals.It isn't YOUR bike and if your not going to buy it what is all the fuss about exactly?
As far a 'ugly' pipes are concerned well it's made for a purpose to a deadline and was formed on a TS frame.It has a hybrid ignition made from period Suzuki parts built by Jens Olsen, not the bells and whistles ignition .
The only thing to come out of this 'debate' is the sad reflection of attitudes in VMX, in so much someone makes an innocent remake and see that as a prefect opportunity to launch into a rabid personal attack ::)
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Lozza,
I wouldn't call it a personal attack, I'd say its "TELL ME YOUR SECRETS" and Bursting YOUR BUBBLE
type stuff.
While they are pickin on you, they are leaven someone else alone ;) ;D
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My criticisms are purely based on attitude and what is and what isn't kosher, not personality. I love the bike, don't get me wrong here. I also agree with getting the bike into a ridable situation. I know how ordinary the bike was before. I don't have a problem with Jens's ignition now we know it's not a "bells and whistles" version and see that the pipe must have been off something else because I've seen better from you. I apologise for that observation. I merely think that there is making it ridable and there is taking it past the limit. Believe me Lozza, there is a moral limit, if not we'd all be riding things like my mates Cotton.
I doubt if any of us would have given a toss if you didn't play the silly "I know something that you don't" game and saying that the frame is the least trick thing about the bike. You opened the door and Pokey fed us the info (that's not quite correct as it turns out). The result was that we all have opinions and a few disagree with yours.
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maybe a new class could be investigated for OEM bikes only. No PVL No aftermarket shocks no trick bits at all.
Isn't that what the Evo class is meant to be?
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Gee, these threads do digress don't they ::). Guilty as charged ;D.
Pokey, you're right but programmable ignition and that plug ugly pipe take it way past the moral objectives of our sport.
Without being rude Firko, by whose standards. Motorcycling is all things to all people. To some people saying old, vintage or classic is to say old, cheap, nasty and slow. To others it is a sacred duty to preserve history. Too others it is nto the chase down that obsecure part. To others it is to have that obsecure hard too find desirable bike and to be the object ogf everyone else's envy. To others it is the engineering challenge to get that old P.O.S. up and running again as best they can, by any means they can and as cheaply as they can. To others it is to re-write history.
But whose right and whose wrong. Or is one more right, more rightious than the other? I think the sport is too small to fracture and survive. Somehow we have to find the common ground. And I think Bugsy Mann said it best with that quoteable quote IIRC "if he's got an old bike in the ute, $10 in his pocket and a good attitude he gets to ride." While that is not the current case and can't be absolute it should be the guiding principle.
Bikes like Cozzies lovely Cheney need to be preserved as they were intended, not polluted by modern additions. Some people just don't understand what the vintage movement is about and never will.
I agreed absolutely but who is to decide; who is to be the arbitor?
This adds fuel to the argument that the rulebook does indeed need some revision. Perhaps the AHRMA pipe rules about no tapered headers and fat centre sections should be included.
Sounds like it, but hasten slowly - don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Who undertakes this task will need the wisdom of Solomon and the hide of a Rhino. The rules will have to be made for the future and not the past. In other words for the future of the sport the rules will have to appeal to the younger riders and not you and I ;) :).
But exactly where would you draw the line. Take pipes - NOS only, OEM only, period made only, or look approximately like the period pipes? And you can go through and apply that to every compondent. The more stringent the rules the more disputes, the more unhappiness, the less participants.
As Oldschool said, this attitude ruined classic road racing
I don't know how true this statement is. Classic road racing attracts world class riders and mixes ex-world champs with young riders, pushing the limits, competing and setting new rfecords and goals. There seems to be a lot of them and they seem to be having lots of fun.
... pretty soon we'll see monstrosities like the shit Dave Hall built( YZ Yamahas disguised as BSA Bantams or Ariel leaders with late model Suzuki internals) for road racing. A good friend of mine built a Cotton 250 with a CR250 Honda crank, 6 speed Yamaha 125 gearbox and a barrell cast up to look like the original Villiers but containing late model YZ250 ports.
Quite honestly I don't know to admire these people/their work, or pity them ::). It all depends on you P.O.V. and/or my mood at the time. I often find myself about to mouth the word 'Why' out loud until I remember I'm a 57yo with a gargae full of old shit that I waste time, money and effort on ::).
I wouldn't pretend to know a solution. My only suggest would be at that local/entry level minimum rules. May be at National levels more stringent rules.
As to 'rules' for resto's, show'n shines, garage queens and CD'6's, good luck :).
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You make some good points Graeme but I sort of agree with Firko on taking it too far. I don't know a lot about the Cheney other that it being a damn nice thing. I'd hate to see that bike bastardised in the quest for winning a vintage race. It's too rare for that. Having said that though I have no problem with doing whatever you need to do to get a bike running well internally. I'm against huge welded on reed blocks and those awful fat pipes. Sorry Lozza but I think it's awful and detracs from the integrity of the bike. It reminds me of Sieges MX Yamaha with the pipe that looks like a cobra that swallowed a dog.
Unusually for me I know where Firko, Lozza and Graeme are all coming from and agree in part with all of you. I admire Firkos steadfast love of the history and traditions of the sport and his wish to keep it all within period guidlines. Without people with his attitude we would all be testing the boundaries like those road race blokes. I also see Lozzas nutty professor attitude towards getting these old dogs going better that they were ever intended. I confess that I have a hot rod mentality (as does Firko) but I like to use period technology or slick up the rolling rame with some geometry changes. We have to keep in mind that this is vintage racing not televised GPs with mega buck purses at stake. Winning a vintage race is like being called the prettiest fat girl! We have to remember that and ask the question as to whether we absolutely need to modify our bikes so much.
This debate has been interesting to me as it tells me that we are all different in our atitudes and in our own minds we are all right. I'm sure the rules need tightening to prevdent programmable ignitions and bodgy latetr reeds ans stuff but in reality there aren'tthat many folks who go all out on the bikes. Bring on the dunger class and it's simple rules. I just wonder what Lozza would brew up in his lab! ;D
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Has anyone bid on the TM yet?
I havnt looked as she is out of my budget even if i risked a good slapping from the minister for all things smile worthy.
I see that ruling of "if the engine remains the same visually " as red flag to a bull and its a challenge to me. Thats how I see it.
To another it could be interpreted as OEM only to another it could be only period available after market bolt on additions. The bald faced facts are that all answers are correct under the current rulings and i like that.
VMX isnt to me about winning, its more about enjoying the sport the racing the repairing snd sourcing building and the mateship that comes from a mutual enjoyment of old bikes.
I think the current open interpretation is good as it allows more people to enjoy this fine sport and will gaurantee its longevity rather than a niche market catering to an even smaller group of devotees.
Pipe is a bit fugly even if it works
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I don't find the pipe on the Cheney TM offensive at all - it follows basically the same path as the original, and the fattest part is where the fattest part should be.
In my eyes, this is a world apart from the low-boy up-pipes fitted to MX Yamahas and stuff, where - while the path is arguably the same as original - the pipe snakes around all over the joint, and the belly of the pipe is somewhere a lot further foward on the bike.
I can't think of a simple, enforcable way to write a rule that prohibits the visual horror of something like Seige's MX, much less one the prevents something like the TM's pipe.
Maybe a limit on the maximum diameter of the pipe (relative to engine capacity) would do it? No sure if I think its a good idea, just thinking of how it could be achieved.
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I don't find the pipe on the Cheney TM offensive at all - it follows basically the same path as the original, and the fattest part is where the fattest part should be.
In my eyes, this is a world apart from the low-boy up-pipes fitted to MX Yamahas and stuff, where - while the path is arguably the same as original - the pipe snakes around all over the joint, and the belly of the pipe is somewhere a lot further foward on the bike.
I agree whole heartedly.
I can't think of a simple, enforcable way to write a rule that prohibits the visual horror of something like Seige's MX, much less one the prevents something like the TM's pipe.
There are examples in the GCRs that can help improve the rules for Classic Motocross and Dirt Track.
For example:
The express purpose of these Rules is to ensure the motorcycles are in a condition,
which is visually compatible with the period of racing being portrayed.
These Rules are to be interpreted so as to ensure that motorcycles are presented in the spirit of the period.
I was successful in protesting a bike on these grounds a few years ago.
It too was an abomination.
Afterwards many people congratulated me for doing this.
They all believed as I did that it's exclusion was in the best interests of the sport.
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:D for fear of being called an ol' fuddy duddy I agree with Firko. Even if I never raced again my attitude wouldn't change and my bikes would be built 100% era and basically stock (or less than stock in most cases). This is regardless of what I am allowed or not allowed. For the full experience I want to ride my bikes how they 'were' and how I remember them to be ;)
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I see the Cheney is relisted with a buy it now of $6000 :) alas, I don't have 6 grand spare or I'd jump on it :(
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CHENEY-SUZUKI-TM400-VMX-AHRMA-MX-PRE-1975_W0QQitemZ330250419555QQihZ014QQcategoryZ102690QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CHENEY-SUZUKI-TM400-VMX-AHRMA-MX-PRE-1975_W0QQitemZ330250419555QQihZ014QQcategoryZ102690QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
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...Even if I never raced again my attitude wouldn't change and my bikes would be built 100% era and basically stock (or less than stock in most cases). This is regardless of what I am allowed or not allowed. For the full experience I want to ride my bikes how they 'were' and how I remember them to be ;)
Onya Doc! My sentiments exactly.
We all have varying attitudes on VMX bikes and the sport in general; from the boring to the bling, from mediocre to mongrel, but this quote struck a chord with me.
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Why don't you get a contract drawn up and put in $1000 each and take it to CD events
and play with it. ;D
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still says it a bit on the pricey side even with the new buy now price.
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Thanks for the support Doc. By agreeing with my stance and not wanting to seem a fuddy duddy, does that mean you see me as an old fuddy duddy? ;D I reckon the thing about keeping the bikes within the parameters of their respective periods doesn't mean that we have to keep our bikes absolutely as they come from the factory. During the pre '75 period many of the bikes were less than ordinary, even for that period, and modifying them was par for the course. There was more engine and chassis hot rodding going on back then than in any other period in our sports history and I love to see period attempts to overcome those shortcomings. Aftermarket mods like cutting and shutting DT1 frames, replacing inferior Japanese forks with superior Ceriani or Betor units, Gem and Mossberger reed conversions and even big buck hot rod stuff like Cheney, Rickman and Champion frames were an integral part of the sport and instrumental in the development of improved product from the factories. Think about it. If we hadn't modified those bikes to within a skerrick of their lives the factories would have thought that we were happy with what they were producing and would have kept selling us the same old dross for a lot longer. The Suzuki factory if fact took the Cheney Suzuki that Eric Cheney had built for Tom Ledbetter in England back to Japan and replicated it into the RH that started the whole rush to Japanese motocross supremacy. Just about every major engineering step forward had its beginnings in the aftermarket industry.
It's very easy to keep the mods to your vintage machine within the period because there were so many tricks to pick from. The magazines of the period were chocka block full of 'how to' articles so there are plenty of examples to inspire us. What I find totally wrong and against the very idea of what we are doing is to modify old bikes using too much modern technology. Fat pipes, oversized reed valve conversions using post 1975 style and even worse, V force style reed conversions, aluminium swingarms that have no resemblence to anything built within the period and lots more are the foot in the door to turning the bikes into something they never were.
Vintage motocross is not about creating modern performance out of old bikes. I believe it's about recreating a period when we and our bikes were very different. There are so many ways to enjoy our sport ranging from nut and bolt perfect concourse restorations to building the era sympathetic trick machines or building or buying the exotic Cheney, Metisse or whatever that we could only ever dream about in our youth or just plain building a Dunger 100 and having a bit of fun. The possibilities are endless without having to add modern technology to old school toys.
p.s. Jeez Freaky, have you ever built one of these bikes? I'm currently building a Cheney 360 Yamaha and it's going to cost me way more than the Buy it Now price as are my Hindall Ducati and Hindall F31M Kawasaki. Trust me, I know that Cheney and it's a bloody steal.
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The market will speak. But as we all know building a bike its easy to over capitalise, just like a house, just because you spend the money on a pool or your taste in furishings, it means nothing unless the buyer has exsactly the same taste. Same goes for cars and bikes. The market ebs and flows with whats in and out , and also what is fair money on any given day. As the thread has indicate some folks dont like certain aspects of the biek as it is, the pipe has been mentioned, but Ajay may love it and spent a fortune on it, alas that means nothing unless the next buyer loves it just as much.
Price is alway subjective, but if you where to back out the costs such as a standard Tm 400 motor and other consumable parts the only special part is the frame and even that is set for only a certain less desirable motor. IF it was a yamah frame or similar id put my hand in the air fast as the next guy, but its only really in the relms of interesting. IF the bike is special only due to the bvalue of its frame you would have to build the price in around that. so whats a Frame like that worth $1-2k ? then maybe if its matching tank stick on another $1k so your round the $3K ? now add in all the other consumable or costs to build that are recoverable costs and id say $4-5k would be more like a steal IMHO.
Its only worth what someone is willing to pay on the day, the day isnt over, and maybe the buyer hast seen it yet. but there is always another day and another bike that is right for you. this one isnt just right yet for someone.
Im as guilty as the next guy for paying to much based on the market, but i live by the rule if i like enough ill pay what its worth to me, thats my yardstick. im paying for my emotional connection to it what ever that price is, if im buying it to move on then i use another formuala based on floor price etc. currently on the modern YZ series we have been using the year less a grand as the trade in value, no reason, just that it seems it works, as in an 06 model is $5k 07 model $6. how long that last is any guess until the market again changes and its the year less $2k :O) or some other stupid line in the sand. ::)
Meh...... good luck to whoever buys it, if they buy it for the right reasons ;D
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Rarely do I agree with or even understand your logic Freak but this time you may be pretty close to reality. To me that bike is worth every penny of 6k purely based on its rarity. You'd be extremely lucky to find another Cheney Suzuki, let alone another one for sale. They are the rarest of the rare, making even RH's seem common. I'd be surprised if Eric Cheney made more than a dozen Suzuki frames and he won't be making any replicas because the old buzzard is dead. Sadly in this vintage market two, possibly three things are against it. First up is the fact that it's a pre '75 class bike and unfortunately the pre '75 division is on a slow decline. Second (and I mean no insult to Suzuki owners ) It's a bloody TM400 Suzuki, hardly the most desirable of vintage motocross engines. If, as Lozza claims the engine is full of extra ports and other good stuff that make the bike faster, or at least ridable, Cozzie should have been a lot more creative with his ad, explaining that this is no ordinary TM400. Which brings me to the third reason I don't think the bike is selling. The ad itself is a little dull. The photos are ordinary and the bikes description only tells a tiny part of the story. That bike really needs to be talked up a storm, to really take advantage of it's rarity. I would have also listed the bike on USA eBay where it would be more appreciated and understood . There is plenty of scope to put a really good ad together on eBay and plenty of room for lots of photos.
Like I said earlier, I would buy that bike if I wasn't tied down with my own Cheney and other projects. Surely there is someone else with my taste and a quid in his pocket out there?
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someone on here must off seen the bike run .and if so how does it goooooooooo
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Firko, ol' fuddy duddy was not directed at anyone but mearly a perception I have of what others may be thinking ;D
I reckon 6K is cheap and it's 100% rideable and repairable..what we need is a compulsive buyer like TMBill and then he can leave it stored at my place ;D ..where are you William!!
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Freaky did you write your last posting, Fooking elll i readed it an it is shit hot gramma an spellin, I am impressed :D Ok Stop it now it is a bit worrying !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) Cheers Tim
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The ad itself is a little dull. The photos are ordinary and the bikes description only tells a tiny part of the story. That bike really needs to be talked up a storm, to really take advantage of it's rarity.
He really ought to have added in the word "Wheelsmith"... :D ... :-\
I'm not even vaguely in the market for such a bike, but I'd have thought that $6k was a bargain for it.
Then again, I've seen a lot of stuff plummet in value since people started getting nervous about interest rates and fuel prices... I recently advertised one of my little old Mazdas, to fund the purchase of a YZ125A. Six months ago, similar (and often inferior) cars were selling quickly for marginally more than I'm asking for mine, but I haven't had a single call... *shrugs*
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There is no way Freaky wrote that.. It has capitals, comma's, full stops and makes sense. He must have a private secretary!
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Then again, I've seen a lot of stuff plummet in value since people started getting nervous about interest rates and fuel prices... I recently advertised one of my little old Mazdas, to fund the purchase of a YZ125A. Six months ago, similar (and often inferior) cars were selling quickly for marginally more than I'm asking for mine, but I haven't had a single call... *shrugs*
Plummet value is spot on. You think selling a little Mazda is hard. My wifes XR8 lost 50% of its value thanks to latest few fuel rises, she was lucky she was able to sell it at all.
12 months ago I had a line of people offering to buy my XB hardtop, two weeks ago I called some them to sell it so I could buy an Indian scout, huh.. All of them now dont have the money yet 12 months ago they almost all had the spare cash. ::) ::) ::) Yes things have changed. :'(
That TM400 should of been nailed by now. Tis a reflection of things to come.
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Just Curious hopefully Firko can probably answer this , would the frame fittings and fastners be british threads unf unc etc or metric as per the TM parts ?
Does the frame run taper roller bearings in the steering head , and what does the swinging arm pivot on bearings or bushes ?
very cool bike but probably a bit of a handfull for a lightweigt like me LOL.
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This has been an interesting thread, and as far as I can see the only thing bad about that pipe is the butt ugly silencer. Throw that away and replace it with a long straight stinger and it's back to how it should look and sound for that matter ;) ;D
TMBill you better buy it and bring it back home with us after Conondale so we can hear it unmuffled and singing 8)
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Bill...Based on my own Cheney Yamaha which is a different design and a couple of years older, mine has Timken tapered steering head bearings and bushes for the swingarm. I'm not certain the Suzuki is the same but I'd be surprised if it wasn't. Not sure of the nut/bolt situation. Mine has metric all over but I don't know if that's standard. Mine has Italian Ceriani forks and Arces triples which are all metric and had Yamaha back wheel and Campagnolo front wheel, once again metric. I think the Suzuki has Suzuki forks/triple clamps and Suzuki wheels which are also metric so I'd be fairly confidant it's all metric. There's not a lot of British except for the frame/seat/tank on either bike.
I think Freaky hired a ghost writer. I can actually understand his stuff for a change. It's usually hopelessly spelled drivel.
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Thanks for that Firko Bill.
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to fund the purchase of a YZ125A.
I have always found your pricing scales some what low, kinda Dt price based on anything Nathan, no offense ment but your a tight arse right ? :D, so any how im interested in what you would pay for a running , fair condition YZ125A ?
ooo And thanks for noticing guys, at least your reading my posts again ;)
and NO, no secretary, i just vented my splean big time on a guy on a US forum that was being a tool, and the missus put out this week , so im all calm, collected and care free ATM. :P
PLus after a big month at work its a little slow here now, so i can actually read back what i wrote and correct it , rather than just hitting send :-*
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I don't think spelling is an issue - understanding what's being said is more important. ;)
A while back I remember Freaky saying he has several screens open at once - and any woman will tell us blokes we are incapable of 'multi tasking'...
Typing on several screens, swapping between them with plenty to say can get a bit hectic.
Anyhoos, how's that Cheney Zook going? Anyone here interested in buying it?
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well got 6 open at the moment. what was this thread about again ?
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a cheney frame and a fat 400 in it
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It would be good to get some history,or provenance, as they say on the A-Roadshow. Say like, who put the thing together, when ? Was it imported complete or the frame brought over and met the TM400 motor and it was love at first sight. I am interested in the background just for the love of old dirt bikes- that would be educational AND interesting----Not this" cloak and dagger" soapie, that this thread has teetered on becoming.
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OOO...........FACT VERSUS FICTION HUH................
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Dave Tanner can tell all you need to know, he bought it in from the US. Think it was a US Dirt Bike mag project bike or similar.
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The bike was owned by a bloke named Bob Neilsen in the USA. It's reputedly the December 1973 Cycle Guide magazine project bike (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/cheneysuzy.jpg) . It was found by Ray Ryan when he visited Neilson to do a piece on one of his bikes. Ray passed on the bikes wherabouts to Dave Tanner who purchased it, imported it and restored it. It was then sold to Cozzie who further refined the bike. Thats the short version of an interesting bike history...This article gives the original build of the bike..........http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/bwTMcheneya75.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.eurospares.com/graphics.htm&h=897&w=642&sz=141&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=y73DcBWZlMOIlM:&tbnh=146&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcheney%2BSuzuki%2Btm400%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN (http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/bwTMcheneya75.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.eurospares.com/graphics.htm&h=897&w=642&sz=141&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=y73DcBWZlMOIlM:&tbnh=146&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcheney%2BSuzuki%2Btm400%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)
Wake up Freaky. No fiction here.
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Apart from Chrome finish how do you ID a Cheney frame? Is their a Cheney brand stamped on or a set of numbers to ID them with.
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The design is totally diferent to that of a Suzuki. There isn't a Cheney branding anywhere except the frame # and Made in England on the steering head.
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Thanks Firko
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Wake up Freaky. No fiction here.
Wake up yourself firko, i never said there was i was only paraphrasing the comment above into a context of question.
But i agree with you on one thing if it has history why has it taken so many pages for you guys that may know somthing to get around to putting that info up here ? Whats with that ? whatever happened to sharing ?
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HEy Quicky, be careful nickel finishes mean nothing i got 3 here in nickel a boss, champion and a trackmaster, they are all the same and other than number that mean nothing unless you know how they code out the only way to tell them appart is the style, usually they are differant in the rear loops, the centre frame or maybe the geometry of bracing. MAny hand made frame of that era dont even have a maker stamp, just a build number as in #49. Some guys actually welded the initials of the rider on the frame which you can use to confirm it was build for a certain rider. anyway back to the point the colour or finish of the frame means nothing unless its red ;D
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About time some one nailed it..
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Bidding finished at $5100; didn't get to reserve.
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Nah. It got nailed on buy it now second time around mate.
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http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CHENEY-SUZUKI-TM400-VMX-AHRMA-MX-PRE-1975_W0QQitemZ330250419555QQihZ014QQcategoryZ102690QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Auction ended early with Buy It Now. = $6000 8) ;) :)
The Market has spoken. ;D
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Nah. It got nailed on buy it now second time around mate.
So it has; well that's weird...
I clicked on the original link to check progress and that's where I saw the 'failed to reach reserve' blah, blah... ???
Did it go to anyone on the forum?
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By sheer coincidence I was looking at Mark Holoways Swap Meet site this morning and found the following ad
FOR SALE
Ad # 3127124 July 16, 2008
"BOYD & STELLINGS TM400 Suzuki. The one with the aluminum swingarm and adjustable steering head. Project bike.
Would probably take most vintage 2 stroke or a BSA single motor. For photos email me. asking $1400 OBO
Bob Neilson
Henderson, Nv
Email "
Bob Neilson was the original owner of the Cheney TM400. This is obviously another of his collection. I'm not aware of what a Boyd and Stellings frame is like but I have one of their swingarms on my 350 Maico and it's quality gear. I'd love to see a photo of this one. Sounds cheap.