OzVMX Forum

Marque Remarks => Honda => Topic started by: Paul552 on May 13, 2014, 08:41:08 pm

Title: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Paul552 on May 13, 2014, 08:41:08 pm
While reading this article I noticed the welded bash plate.
I thought this is a good idea for a frame with worn rails?

http://transmoto.com.au/bike-dissected-1984-honda-cr500re/


Is it a good idea in practice??? Has anyone done it???

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b525/TFR555/f292de9c67f08aac4e1faa3a823558fc_zpsc93e2306.jpg)
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Glen08 on May 13, 2014, 08:46:05 pm
Good idea , although id purchase a few more hole`s or even use a mesh set up..
..
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: micks on May 13, 2014, 09:14:35 pm
the bloke who brought it in nsw sometimes takes it out to Nepean. luv the period correct wave disc
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Ted on May 13, 2014, 10:28:16 pm
It's not a bash plate, per se. It is done to stiffen the chassis and take some flex out of it. Have a close look at my 465. Same plate as this and gusseted everywhere.
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: FourstrokeForever on May 14, 2014, 09:03:28 am
Seems like a good idea for enduro....not so sure about it being necessary for MX. I can't recall the factory bikes ever having it done to them.
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: GMC on May 14, 2014, 09:11:20 am
Please don't be welding stuff like that onto your frame.
Someone will end up bringing it to me in a few years time to cut all the shit back off.
I've had a couple like that come in already, it's never a pretty site.
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: pokey on May 14, 2014, 10:00:58 am
It took awhile to register in my head but I was sure that mod had been on one of my bikes and then it hit me. It was a stock bike.

The mighty Voskhod 175 russian tank had an armour plated belly pan. Quarter inch thick protection on a road bike. It did make it easy to slide over logs and boulders with no fear. I can also remember it being a mod on some of the enduro bikes in the mid 70s. Lucky for us now buying them that after market plastic and alu skid plates hit the scene.
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Nathan S on May 14, 2014, 10:06:06 am
Was semi-common on the American team bikes in the late 80s and early 90s. Was supposed to be about stiffening/strengthening, and stopping the frame rails digging in if you cased out.

I've got an 88 KX125 frame that's had the treatment - it was definitely not done by a works team...
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Paul552 on May 14, 2014, 06:55:43 pm
So I take it that this would not detract from the price of a bike if you were to sell it??



Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Ted on May 14, 2014, 07:10:15 pm
Not at all. It amazes me how some go on about huge billet triples, upside down forks, huge box section swingarms all designed to reduce flex and do nothing to a thirty year old frame that bends like a banana.
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Paul552 on May 14, 2014, 07:13:24 pm
Not at all. It amazes me how some go on about huge billet triples, upside down forks, huge box section swingarms all designed to reduce flex and do nothing to a thirty year old frame that bends like a banana.

That's what I thought!! I think it looks the goods too.  :)
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Ted on May 14, 2014, 07:18:47 pm
Are you buying it?
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Paul552 on May 14, 2014, 07:22:00 pm
Are you buying it?

Not that one :) but I would like one like it
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Ted on May 14, 2014, 07:58:41 pm
Build it yourself.....it ain't even that trick.
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: FourstrokeForever on May 15, 2014, 08:41:21 am
i can't see how it would reduce much, if any flex on the lower rails considering that the engine mount bolts tie both sides of the rails together anyway. If the motor is a snug fit, as it should be, between the mounting lugs, that in itself reduces any flex down the bottom of the frame. Re welding the old welds is the best way to reduce flex in my opinion, and also reduce the risk of frame failures at fractured weld seams.
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Nathan S on May 15, 2014, 12:13:49 pm
i can't see how it would reduce much, if any flex on the lower rails considering that the engine mount bolts tie both sides of the rails together anyway. If the motor is a snug fit, as it should be, between the mounting lugs, that in itself reduces any flex down the bottom of the frame. Re welding the old welds is the best way to reduce flex in my opinion, and also reduce the risk of frame failures at fractured weld seams.

I've owned a few 1980s KX frames that have broken the lower engine mounting plates off the frame. The 86 frame had cracked on the lateral tube that runs between the footpegs.

Best as I can figure, these failures can only happen because the frame is flexing around the much more rigid engine cases. The weld-on skid plate would seem like a good way to add rigidity to that section of the frame - and (in the case of brittle 80s KX frames).
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: smed on May 15, 2014, 03:16:24 pm
it was definitely not done by a works team...

I think MR Geboers might like to argue with you mate ;)

(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/smed45/supercross142_zps4b9a9659.jpg) (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/smed45/media/supercross142_zps4b9a9659.jpg.html)
(http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj529/smed45/supercross143_zps0cfd4757.jpg) (http://s1266.photobucket.com/user/smed45/media/supercross143_zps0cfd4757.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Nathan S on May 15, 2014, 03:39:58 pm
No no - its my KX frame that was certainly not done by a works team.
Not unless there was a works team that employed a drunken chicken to poop metal together...

(And I'm no god of welding myself...).
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: smed on May 15, 2014, 04:35:39 pm
Yeah I get ya now after re reading your post :), I would be guessing that the one on the Geboers 500 was done by HRC when they were building the frame so no probs when done properly,I always thought the welded in bashplates were pretty damn trick myself :)   
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Paul552 on May 15, 2014, 09:17:11 pm
The bike featured in the transomoto artical has a 19" rear.
I assume that would be pre 85 legal even though the bike came out with 18" rear.

Would it be a improvement in handling having a 19" rear

Opinions??

I also think the bash plate looks trick :)
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: mainline on May 15, 2014, 09:17:56 pm
Less weight, but less sidewall ?
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: FourstrokeForever on May 16, 2014, 11:34:55 am
i can't see how it would reduce much, if any flex on the lower rails considering that the engine mount bolts tie both sides of the rails together anyway. If the motor is a snug fit, as it should be, between the mounting lugs, that in itself reduces any flex down the bottom of the frame. Re welding the old welds is the best way to reduce flex in my opinion, and also reduce the risk of frame failures at fractured weld seams.

I've owned a few 1980s KX frames that have broken the lower engine mounting plates off the frame. The 86 frame had cracked on the lateral tube that runs between the footpegs.

Best as I can figure, these failures can only happen because the frame is flexing around the much more rigid engine cases. The weld-on skid plate would seem like a good way to add rigidity to that section of the frame - and (in the case of brittle 80s KX frames).

Interesting.....Maybe the KX's used seamed round bar rather than extruded tube? I know Harley's still use seamed bar.... ::)
If any part of the engine mounting points are a loose fit or flogged out like alot of the old magnesium cases and alloy mounting plates, there will be undue flex created if this is not corrected. The way I see it, most flex would be at the swingarm pivot area due to the length of the arm. I dunno, maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. Adding a welded on skid plate can't hurt, just make sure all the engine mounting points are a snug fit first. And that includes the head stay mounts as that is an integral part of adding rigidity. 
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Nathan S on May 17, 2014, 08:32:40 pm
Old Kawi frames seem to be made of a fairly brittle material. A high carbon steel, at a guess.

-------

19" wheels are legal because 19" wheels have existed since forever.

They weigh less, and the lower sidewall is supposed to help handling. I know Magoo reckons it was a good move on his Evo bike. There's also a few extra choices for dedicated MX tyres in 19" (especially in 125-friendly sizes).
Title: Re: Frame bracing / bash plate
Post by: Paul552 on May 17, 2014, 09:45:21 pm
Thanks Nathan

Makes sense.