OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: firko on March 20, 2014, 10:08:17 am
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Below is cut and pasted from forum member Doug Gardner's Facebook page. It seems that eBay took down some listings for parts after complaints were received from John Caldwell at Canadian Maico. Doug's helped a few folks on here including Brad090 and me and has always been a straight shooter with regards to our dealings. What I don't get is how Canadian Maico can convince eBay that they are the only business allowed to use the word Maico in their listings? How can eBay or John Caldwell legally do that? I thought the rights to the name Maico were owned by a Dutch firm so how can Canadian Maico be called the "rights owner"? Here's the Facebook link.... https://www.facebook.com/groups/492847434163162/permalink/549474375167134/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/492847434163162/permalink/549474375167134/)
Check out what John Caldwell did to my eBay account.
Hello ,
After reviewing your eBay account, we've taken the following action:
- Listings have been removed. A list of items that were removed can be viewed at the bottom of this message.
- Any fees for listings ended early because of this violation will not be credited to your account.
Your listing was removed after the rights owner reported it as counterfeit. We urge you to contact the rights owner directly for more information about why they requested the removal of your listing and whether you can relist the item.
Please be sure your current and future listings follow these guidelines, keeping in mind that additional violations could result in the suspension of your account.
We encourage you to contact 578539 BC Ltd. / Canadian Malco directly if you have any questions.
You can send an email to:
[email protected]
For more information on how eBay protects Intellectual Property, or for additional information if you believe that your listing has been removed as a result of an error or misidentification, please visit the following Help page:
If you have additional questions, contact our policy experts.
Here are the listings that were removed:
221326168492 - 5 maico clutch lock washers NEW 250 400 440 490 ahrma vintage mx motocross
221326169322 - 1 maico clutch lock washers NEW 250 400 440 490 ahrma vintage mx motocross
221331993915 - 1 maico clutch hub tool NEW 250 360 400 440 490 ahrma vintage mx motocross
321261663785 - 1 maico small clutch steel plate NEW 250 400 440 490 ahrma vintage mx motocross
321268996177 - Maico clutch guide plate stiffening ring 250 360 400 440 vintage mx ahrma
We appreciate your cooperation.
Thanks,
eBay
So John won't let someone make and sell parts for a maico or use the name maico! This is crazy!!!!!!! and some of this stuff I invented and had made to help out the maico world. John your out of your mind. I'm just one guy that likes maicos and happens to make and sell parts that fit maicos.
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It does bring up an interesting question.
Who does own the rights to the Maico name?
There is a company in Germany who can build and sell you a new Maico or engine http://www.ktm-koestler.de/de/maico-bikes/maico-shop.html (http://www.ktm-koestler.de/de/maico-bikes/maico-shop.html) I think they bought the design from the Dutch company. There is also a company in the UK that made a new bike under the Maico name. This is their facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Maico-Motorcycles/162895694934 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Maico-Motorcycles/162895694934)
I would like to know who does own the rights. I would like to get some shirts made, but who do I ask to get permission to use the Maico name.
Maico Only
Bill Brown
John Caldwell
Koestler in Germany
Maybe some of this goes back to when Maico couldn't be sold in the US under the Maico name and then became M-Star.
Either way who owns the rights to the Maico name worldwide?????
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Bit ruff
I do note the word countfeit from ebay/canadian maico. Are the parts genuine or repro to suit Maico?
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How do you countfeit a part that you invented and had made? Do people make parts to fit a Honda or Yamaha so on and so on? Yes it is called the aftermarket and that is all I'm doing is make a better part at a good price that fit maico's. DG
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Not that I am suggesting anything, but:
http://www.benzboost.com/content.php?850-Sale-of-Powerchip-falls-through-Wayne-Besanko-still-involved
http://jalopnik.com/5713816/how-an-aussie-forum-war-ended-in-a-police-visit
I wonder if John Caldwell would be as accomodating as Mr Besanko was?
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Edit: I forgot to include the actual input to this thread... ::)
Is the issue that non-Genuine parts are being advertised as "Maico" parts?
Perhaps adding the words "to suit" would kill the arguments?
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yup..'to suit maico' should be the loophole to this ridiculous situation ;)
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This is the replay that John Caldwell put out to the stuff he pulled off eBay of mine. I have to say though a OEM manufacture (Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha) does inspect a aftermarket part to see if it is up to there standards, if they could have it there way there would be no aftermarket you would have to buy OEM from them.
The situation is very simple, for clarification Canadian Maico owns the trademarks for MAICO. They were available for anyone to file for, no one did, so I did and now they belong to Canadian Maico for both the USA and Canada. The manufacturing of parts is not the issue, the issue is they did not ask for permission. Further if parts are made without any type of inspection they could very well be substandard. It's the duty of every trademark holder to see that their marks are not weakened or diluted by substandard knock off products. I'm not saying that these products are sub standard but no attempt was made to ask for my inspection or approval, I don't think thats too much to ask. I do not want to see the old "Maico Breako" myth propagated. In my defence it's my right as a trademark owner to make an attempt to stop counterfeit products. I will sit down with anyone who has what they believe to be a good product and discuss marketing.
To set the record straight I've been around Maico since 1969. I believe them to be the finest moto crosser of their time. I'm passionate about the marque and want nothing but the best for it. I can further state that I do my absolute very best to pass on my knowledge and experience to anyone who asks for it and I'm not in this just for the money as some are.
Thanks,
John Caldwell
Canadian Maico
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interesting spat....I notice the reply has a critical line.... sit down and discuss marketing .. ;) all about the $$$ and who controls them
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The situation is very simple, for clarification Canadian Maico owns the trademarks for MAICO. They were available for anyone to file for, no one did, so I did and now they belong to Canadian Maico for both the USA and Canada. The manufacturing of parts is not the issue, the issue is they did not ask for permission. Further if parts are made without any type of inspection they could very well be substandard. It's the duty of every trademark holder to see that their marks are not weakened or diluted by substandard knock off products. . In my defence it's my right as a trademark owner to make an attempt to stop counterfeit products. I will sit down with anyone who has what they believe to be a good product and discuss marketing.
Pigs arse
Maico has never asked me for any of my replacement products or repairs to be inspected, nor has Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Hodaka, BSA, KTM, Greeves, Beta, Alpha, Gas Gas, Fantic, Husqvarna, Dot, Montesa, CCM, Zundapp, CZ, Jawa, DKW, MZ, CanAm, Rotax, SWM, Bultaco, Ossa, Husaberg, Rokon, ATK, BMW, Harley Davidson,
Shit, I could be in deep shit if they all come after me :o
Reminds me of when some American company ‘bought’ the name Ugh boot even though it was a generic name. They used their dollar might to stop everyone else advertising with the name and made big profits from their Chinese made boots while everyone else was dealing with lawyers.
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I see this way he had time to contact E-Bay but he did not have time to contact you and discuss marketing.
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So old mate has bought the un-used rights to the Maico name in North America, presumably in the hope of cashing in if one of the relaunches of the Maico brand actually manages to fly.
As that's looking unlikely, he's trying to cash in by flexing his muscle elsewhere.
Regardless of the actual wording of the law, John C is clearly outside of the intent of the law - he has no product who's reputation could possibly be "damaged" by FDG's products, not to mention the bit where FDG is not saying (or implying) that his stuff is genuine, North American Maico... ::)
John C is "doing a Besanko", and needs to be treated with similar contempt (even though JC's motives appear slightly less insane).
FDG can easily dodge the nonsense by adding the words "to suit" and/or a disclaimer about "these are not genuine Maico parts".
It's a dumb, stupid situation - particularly when it's for a brand that has not existed in any meaningful way since the mid-1980s - but not is it a catastrophe.
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The saying, "money talks" springs to mind here. You have to remember, the US and Canada are the litigation experts of the free world. Free enterprise doesn't come into the equation if some greedy bastard thinks you might be taking some loose change out of his pile.
I've had a similar thing happen to me with the name of a business here in Australia. I won't spell it out on here because I don't want to advertise for the ar*&hole that is nothing more than a bottom dwelling middle man, but he registered a name so close to my business name that I often got phone calls from irate customers who could not contact him. After complaining to the Consumer affairs dept. we were told that because he was a registered pty.ltd and I was only a sole trader, he could keep the name even though my business name was registered for 18 months before his. WTF?
Anyway, to get around being able to advertise your aftermarket patent parts, the wording is crucial.
As Nathan ad Doc suggest, "to suit" should be the loophole you need. Perhaps go a bit further with, "Australian made quality aftermarket (widgets) to suit (year) maico 250 etc...
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is flying DG an Aussie if so doesn't JC only hold the USA & Canadian rights?
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Mr Caldwell is in danger of becoming the two wheeled Besanko with this heavy handed attitude. The classic motorcycle scene is very tight knit and Maico owners are an especially close community, with an extremely tight and efficient line of communication thanks to forums such as Marks Swapmeet, the various Yahoo marque forums and of course OzVMX and many more. Many of us, no matter on which continent we live are on cyber first name terms so it won't take long before Mr Caldwell's attitude towards others 'playing in his sandpit' goes viral. Has Mr Caldwell imposed the same legal threats to other Maico aftermarket parts suppliers like Maico Only, Bill Eyler (East Coast Maico) or Bill Brown in the UK? If not, why single out the smallest player in what is already a small market? Is it because he's perceived to be the easiest or is it some sort of personal vendetta? Situations like this rarely finish up in group hug lovefests so it's a bloody shame that this has occured.
Mr Caldwell may well find that he has shit in his own nest.
Hoony, Flying DG is an American.
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I think the mud is clearing. CM owns the logo in continental america.he proports to Maintain and better his brand he should have been asked to inspect and then endorse any aftermarket product that was manufactured to suit said brand. What a load of bullshit. I think the tacit question being asked is where is my piece if pie.
Tell him he,s dreaming.
everyone has made parts "to suit" their bike or a mates.
If it is sold with the words " to suit" or "manufactured by ....... to suit" it in no way suggests the items are genuine and require official licensing from the owner of the brand.
goodluck flyingdg.
I better go and destroy that fibreglass rear guard and mold for an AW ive been saving
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Has Mr Caldwell imposed the same legal threats to other Maico aftermarket parts suppliers like Maico Only, Bill Eyler (East Coast Maico) or Bill Brown in the UK? If not, why single out the smallest player in what is already a small market? Is it because he's perceived to be the easiest
Perhaps Mr Caldwell is looking to establish a precedent ?
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I believe you can't go to a Maico dealer and buy genuine parts!! So whats the problem with someone making parts to keep the"dream alive". Also has ebay asked for proof that the said parts are counterfeit? As Firko said a very small market.
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i'm with GMC,my whole business structure is replicating what was once ome,only ones that made me nervous was HD/BMW,so i just don't advertise that fact!, :P
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A quick look on US e-bay shows up over 1600 new items for Maico’s
I see replica seat foams, fuel caps, seat bases, plastics etc.
Has Mr Caldwell made sure that Proform and Circle F are making exhausts that are up to his standards? Are DC plastics up to his standards? Are Wossner pistons up to his standards?
Also take a look at the car industry, all sorts of ‘counterfeit’ replacement parts are coming in from all over the world yet you don’t see the car manufacturers making a fuss
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I think this Canadian Maico character is a marketing genius . I had never heard of his operation before but now its hot news on every vintage forum I go on and facebook .
Any advertising is good advertising and he is getting worldwide exposure to a target market for free ;)
Next week when the another topic like somebody fitting new non period grips to their bike prior to a nationals hogs the front page for a couple of weeks, all the bad Ju Ju about Canadian Maico will be forgotten about by the majority, but the name Canadian Maico will be stuck in the back of most people who has read these threads minds .
Personally I would never buy anything else out of Canada as statistically I have another 20 odd years left to live , and I cant see the woeful Canadian postal service getting things here in that time frame ;D
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I think this Canadian Maico character is a marketing genius . I had never heard of his operation before but now its hot news on every vintage forum I go on and facebook .
Any advertising is good advertising and he is getting worldwide exposure to a target market for free ;)
Next week when the another topic like somebody fitting new non period grips to their bike prior to a nationals hogs the front page for a couple of weeks, all the bad Ju Ju about Canadian Maico will be forgotten about by the majority, but the name Canadian Maico will be stuck in the back of most people who has read these threads minds .
Personally I would never buy anything else out of Canada as statistically I have another 20 odd years left to live , and I cant see the woeful Canadian postal service getting things here in that time frame ;D
William I agree with you on the Canadian post wow they are slow and how high do they charge , But your idea that all will be forgotten in a Cpl of weeks no I don't agree . We are a small bunch in VMX with long memories .