OzVMX Forum

Marque Remarks => Spaniards (Bultaco, Ossa, Montesa etc) => Topic started by: holeshot buddy on June 09, 2008, 07:54:23 pm

Title: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 09, 2008, 07:54:23 pm: thats right after 27 years i own a monty
or should i say 3 :o
back in the club
do i have to do the initiation ,something
about a goat and secret handshake
oh sorry thats cz bike club
montys a too cool for that ;D
heres a picture ;)
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 09, 2008, 07:55:49 pm: heres another ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 09, 2008, 07:57:12 pm: and another 8)
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 09, 2008, 07:57:53 pm: last one :'(

sick of doing this ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: 090 on June 09, 2008, 07:58:27 pm: Piss off! Are you for real? Geez you get some good ones mate. ;) Half your luck.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 09, 2008, 09:00:37 pm: yeah its a vr250
va125 x2 both only 12 numbers apart on frame
the vb 250 on trailer is my mates bike
he also has a va250
and one of those early silver tank 250 jobbys
the vr 250 will be a racer it was dirt tracked
has been ported and has a pipe on her
just need to fit airbox and replace shocks ;D
the 125va are a pretty bike will restore and ride one 8)
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: paul on June 09, 2008, 09:08:41 pm: THOSE TOO BARROWS IN THE BACK WILL COME IN HANDY ,GOOD ON YA GOOD FIND MONTESSA CENTRAL IN BALLARAT HAS GONE INSANE ,SOME ONE HIDE THE POMERANIAN ;)
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: Tahitian_Red on June 10, 2008, 01:35:59 am: Cool bikes!

Instead of being back on the team, I think you have enough to start your own team. ;)
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on June 10, 2008, 06:34:01 am: Another customer for Jared ;D.

Nice pick up Holeshot, what's it gonna be; two race bikes and a hybrid?
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 10, 2008, 09:18:54 pm: rosco i will keep that in mind
mx250 yes i will race them i race all my bikes(that are running) :o
looking forward to racing the vr250 ;D
read up on them apparently they were the fastest 250s
and a good thing ,not many raced out here back in their day
and not many around now cant wait to ride her :P
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on June 11, 2008, 09:00:26 pm: Quote from: 390 Ross on June 11, 2008, 06:29:32 pm
... and they're just the prettiest little bikes around (very important!) ;D
...pruddy 8)

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/vrmx200051.jpg)
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 11, 2008, 10:20:16 pm: nice photo looks fast even sitting there ;D
does anyone know rear shock length
eye to eye
mine has wrong length shocks on ???
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on June 12, 2008, 06:26:41 pm: Quote from: holeshot buddy on June 11, 2008, 10:20:16 pm
nice photo looks fast even sitting there ;D
Ya should hear it; it even sounds fast. ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 19, 2008, 09:49:20 pm: update
ready to start have to do airbox and guards
and tyres :P :P :P
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: paul on June 19, 2008, 10:05:02 pm: looking good holeshot.... seeing you hate maicos so much find me a 77 basket case will ya and i will get it outa queenland for good just to help you clean up the state ;)
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 20, 2008, 09:49:45 pm: i was going to ask about that
shocks look right but it does have that brace on rh side
its welded that good it looks factory ???
fugged if i know
started her today motor sounds real good nice and crisp but
had a drama took of in first gear and rode 20 meters
and it jammed in gear i knew it had a shifting issue just had too
ride her to see what it is
will have to pull out motor and inspect :'( :'( :'(
so that brace should not be there ???
will keep you posted ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: 090 on June 20, 2008, 10:00:33 pm: That brace is what you tie the anchor to, cause they dont stop! Also when you get the shits with it you can throw it in the ocean and the anchor will keep it down :D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 20, 2008, 10:07:09 pm: come on brad i want constructive replys ;D
it will smoke your cr250 when i get her sorted :-*
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: 090 on June 20, 2008, 10:19:50 pm: Sorry i thought you were after DEstructive replies. My pisstake er mistake.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on June 20, 2008, 10:40:03 pm: Holeshot, I recently (yesterday) got a bare V75 frame ($50) with a similar brace on the rhs. There are also two welded in lugs mid way along both tubes which look like potential shock mounts. I haven't sussed it yet. I'll get some pixies tommorrow when the camera's battaries are charged up ::).
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: bigk on June 21, 2008, 09:24:18 am: Hey Russell,
I have a VR250 with the same or similar brace in place. It has had the shocks layed forward and you can see that one side has definately been added, not sure about the side you have asked about. I too would like to know if it is standard before I start the angle grinder.
Cheers,
K
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: cappra on June 21, 2008, 03:15:26 pm: Trust me on this one! VR. V75, VA never had a brace in that area.
(how would you get to the filter!) Starting on the V75 with the new shock
location, Montesa did put a larger diameter sleeve over the top shock mount
area to beef it up a bit. Also the rear loop was redesigned to allow for the
added wheel travel.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 21, 2008, 07:55:55 pm: this is weird so the shocks look ok ???
its funny how mx 250 and michael have similar frames
there is a braced hole in middle which could be a shock mount
are all the airboxes the same
mine slides in ok from left but hits brace on right before
it is in place
maybe these frames are modified vrs to va specs
i have a va 125 and those shocks lay down quite a bit :-\
i know someone up here with a vr might check him out next week ;D
ross i checked the detent bolt spring and plunger looked ok was screwed in
the guy i purchased it from said it had a problem jamming in gear
he had it apart 2 or 3 times and gave up so he has obviously missed something
it sounds like selector arm or drum maybe, will pull apart and check
unless someone on forum knows of some little problem they can have ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on June 21, 2008, 08:15:44 pm: Probably not the worlds best photos but it will give you an idea. I haven't studied the welds, they're covered by paint and there's rust etc., but they look pretty good. The lug I referred to is cleasrly visable and certainly doesn't look 'backyard' engineering.

How do the compare to yours Holeshot?

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/P6210063.jpg)

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/P6210064.jpg)

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/P6210065.jpg)
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 21, 2008, 08:22:55 pm: yeah they look identical 8)
except mine has an extra brace on lh side if you look close at
picture you will see it
both braces run down to same spot with the braced hole in frame
possibly for layed down shock mounts
not much good for pre 75
i might have to leave braces and modify airbox :'(
the bracing job on mine is very good so i might just leave it ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on June 21, 2008, 08:38:59 pm: This is getting very curious. Maybe we are dealing with a distributor mod.

Holey, do you have the squarish lug with a hole through it?

I can't make out a left side brace on your frame. On mine you can see there is a substantional bracket inside of the lug which suggests a bolt in brace simmilar to the welded brace on the right. I cann't see where it would have bolted to.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 21, 2008, 08:57:26 pm: yes both sides have the squarish lug with hole through it
maybe they are a special works ::) frame ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on June 21, 2008, 09:57:33 pm: It'll be interesting to see what Michael has. I'll study mine more carefully tommorrow.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: bigk on June 22, 2008, 08:58:38 am: Mine is pretty much the same, I don't know how to load a photo but! I'll see if I can get one on some how.
Cheers,
K
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: cappra on June 22, 2008, 01:47:50 pm: In 1974, the Montesa works bikes had moved up shocks on the swingarm.
The first picture is of Peter Lamppu on the works 360 at the USGP in 74'
Looks to be Koni's with Poppy alloy cooler
(http://www.southwestmontesa.com/ebay/lamppu.jpg)

2nd pic is of another Works 360 in late 74' at the Trans Am in Phoenix.
Rider was Claude Jobe.
(http://www.southwestmontesa.com/ebay/transam.jpg)
It was not until early 75' that Montesa started to use the cantilever
style shock mounting, starting with Raymond Boven's works bike.
To be honest, this style of shock mounting proved to be problematic
in regards to having to be very exact in your choice of spring rate
and dampning, to avoid pogo sticking when not on the throttle.
At the local level, even with the extra beefing up of the stock shock mount
we still had problems with the frame tubes bending and had to add supports
as you see on the earlier frames that have been converted to cantilever style.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: firko on June 22, 2008, 01:53:06 pm: One possibility of course is that it's a 1974/75 Montesa Enduro. This laid down shock treatment was fitted to the enduro before the motocrosser in 1974 I believe.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/montesaenduro.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Montesa_Enduro_250_1975_advert.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/montesaenduro2.jpg)
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: gator on June 22, 2008, 03:24:27 pm: That's a cool photo of you firko :D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: firko on June 22, 2008, 03:37:28 pm: I just wish I was 1: that happy and jovial, 2: that thin and 3: had such an abundant head of hair.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: TooFastTim on June 22, 2008, 04:01:20 pm: Jared, that Cappra of Peter Lamppus: the head and barrel look suspisiously Husqvarna like.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: cappra on June 22, 2008, 04:16:49 pm: From what I can tell, the cylinder and head started life
as the 360GP (46M). I spoke to Peter in 1990 about this
bike and all he can remember is that the bike arrived in LA
one day before the race and went back to Spain about 8 hours
after the last moto! He only had time to change the shocks and
handlebars before first practice!
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on June 22, 2008, 06:54:24 pm: Here is another shot with the shocks in place. They definately look like shock mounts - everything lines up. And there is a dodgey looking bolt mount on the lh side that suggests a bolt in brace on the left side. I'll clean it up and get a pixie.

It will be interesting to see pixies of Michael's frame.

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/P6220066.jpg)
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: bigk on June 22, 2008, 07:36:54 pm: Mine has the suare lugs with the holes as in MX250's phot. The RHS brace is fixed, the lHS on mine is bolted, not welded and can be taken on and off easily. I have taken some photos, just need to get them listed.
Cheers,
K
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: cappra on June 23, 2008, 03:23:19 am: In the above photo, odd that the brake pedal
has been relocated to the left side...
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on June 23, 2008, 06:38:10 am: Quote from: cappra on June 23, 2008, 03:23:19 am
In the above photo, odd that the brake pedal
has been relocated to the left side...
Ya noticed ;) :). There's a few other things I'll need to check with this frame.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on June 23, 2008, 05:40:51 pm: Quote from: 390 Ross on June 23, 2008, 08:11:12 am

I wonder if the guy holding the 74 Enduro might have been the head of Montesa's PR at the time. It might explain a few things......
I thought he looks like a proud owner of a resto.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 24, 2008, 11:09:15 pm: still waiting on an einstein to tell me if
there is any gearbox problems i should look for before i
pull it down ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: cappra on June 25, 2008, 12:35:34 am: Couple of things to check before tearing down the motor.
In the shift mech there is two spring loaded pawls to check
to see if they are chipped. The is also a large rabbit eared
spring to check to make sure it is not distorted or causing
the shifter to not return. If the shifter feels "dead" then this
spring is distorted. This is caused by falling on the left side
and hitting the shifter, which causes the spring to distort.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on June 25, 2008, 09:47:18 pm: thanks cappra will check it out and keep you posted ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on June 26, 2008, 06:28:21 pm: This shock came off the modified frame (it now in the recycle bin although I was thinking of putting it on Ebay ;D). I'm not certain if it had been mounted in the extreme laid forward position but it made me check the angle of the dangle of the modified mount.....

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/shock.jpg)

...and it was narrower than the swingarm mounts.

That got me thinking, so I checked the original mounts and guess what, they are even narrower than the modified position. Little wonder the poor thing has been bent.

This is extremely poor engineering isn't it? You would mount the shock so all the loading went straight up the shaft as best you could. This poor shock would have had loads and forces trying to bent it in two different direction other than follow the movement of the swinger. I could only imagine this doing dreadful things to the life of the shock and the effectiveness of it 'road holding' qualities.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: cappra on June 27, 2008, 12:20:28 am: But then you wouldn't have that big beautiful unbreakable rear hub!
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on July 06, 2008, 10:22:30 pm: pulled clutch cover off cant see any dramas
spring looks ok
motor is locked in gearbox big time will pull her out and split
keep you posted ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on July 24, 2008, 09:17:03 pm: update on the frame mods
spoke to a guy down geelong who used to do the mods
he said they were doing them in 1973 and 74 to the vrs
all of lyalls bikes were done and he said ryans in sydney did it as well
i described frame to him and he said that is exactly what they did
they were raced like that here and the factory ended up
going that way with the va montesa
apparantly they tried to race them in pre 75 with these mods and were knocked
back as they were not original
very interesting fellow to talk to ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: mx250 on July 24, 2008, 09:51:37 pm: Quote from: holeshot buddy on July 24, 2008, 09:17:03 pm
update on the frame mods
spoke to a guy down geelong who used to do the mods
he said they were doing them in 1973 and 74 to the vrs
all of lyalls bikes were done and he said ryans in sydney did it as well
i described frame to him and he said that is exactly what they did
they were raced like that here and the factory ended up
going that way with the va montesa
apparantly they tried to race them in pre 75 with these mods and were knocked
back as they were not original
very interesting fellow to talk to ;D

Well done Watson ;D, - and the GCR nazis won't let us run with them hey :'(.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: holeshot buddy on July 24, 2008, 10:53:03 pm: hey jared do you do side number plates for VR 250s ???
one covers air box ;D
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: cappra on July 25, 2008, 12:03:27 am: I have the left side,(repro) which is the airbox cover. Right side is just
a tilted green oval number plate.
Title: Re: i am back on the team
Post by: JC on July 30, 2008, 11:52:21 am: Guys,

I'm a bit late following this thread. My guess was that it was a local dealer mod too, which Holeshot has confirmed w his contact in Geelong. No doubt it had a 'factory look'. Lyall O'Brien did things very well. (Not long before he died he sent me copies of dyno curves of 360 (46M) engines that he was getting 50hp from, modifed for road-racing w 6-port engines etc). He was a wiz.

The way the factory did the V75 (& 54M enduro) was much different as Jared pointed out. Very different top shock mount, different frame loop over rear guard, & no diagonal bracing up towards the front of the seat.

The original VR had noticeably inward canted shocks from the factory (ie bottom mounts considerably wider than top mounts). Magazine tests of the day pointed out that strange feature. The V75 (& 54M) did not have that.

To my mind, the VR engine is the killer engine of the class (pre75). DirtBike mag certainly rated it so; better than a 'snore, YZ, Penton etc. MAG Husky was fairly mild by comparison too. The only thing they reckon came close to the 74VR was the 73VR. The 74VR used an unbridged exhaust port with considerably more radical timing than the bridged port of the 73. Diff pipe too. I have compared the porting specs of numerous pre75 250 engines & the VR barrell (esp 74) is much more radical on exh & transfer timing, but very mild on intake duration. (Its one reason they still got a broad powerband) So if you want more power... start w the inlet, which just happens to be the easiest to modify too.

Pretty bikes too, as mentioned above. So is the VA125. I had a VB 125, but they're not as pretty as the VA125. Bigends are weak in both. Just like in the original 18M 125 Cappra of 71-73. I seem to recall Lyall O'brien telling me you can replace the bigend w a standard size ING brg & even keeping the std rod the reliabilty problems vanish. Probably applies to both 4sp & 6sp 125 cappra engines.

My V75 has an ING brg in it now & those brgs have more rollers in them than the std Mon brg. ING brg rated to 21,000 rpm too! Pity I haven't completed the rebuild yet.

Somebody above was asking about shock length for VR. Koni shocks listed in an Old Bike Journal I have indicate 13" for VR & V75.. Personally I'd run 13.5" tho.

Great bikes. Enjoy!