OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: bigk on December 14, 2013, 07:51:08 pm
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Dear diary,
After many years of riding my beloved Husqvarna's, I'm contemplating riding an oriental next season, albeit a '79 Honda CR250R. I feel like I'm being unfaithful. Have I lost my mind? Please help.
K
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Be a devil and ride the Honda, CR. they are a great bike, I race mine for a full season in pre 80. :)
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Just a change BigK Try it if it does work be happy :), if it doesn't back to the Huskies and hey ya still happy ;) Cheers
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Be strong Mich. , that bad feeling for the orient will pass
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Honda, the only way to churn the soil ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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About time your brain clicked into gear Hughes, I reckon that's a smart move and as you know im not a Honda man.
At least from now on you can actually get some track time when you go riding instead of practicing your spark plug changing skills and wearing out the kickstarter on those sewing machines. Sorry mate just my point of view.
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Boring. They're like arseholes. Everyone has them ;D
Ride something left of centre. Euro is the only way to go.
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Put a bare Honda CR250 frame next to a bare Husky 250CR frame and you will see you are not straying to far from the fold. Heck put an aluminum Husky CR tank on it if you want to ease yourself into the change.
;)
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problem with Asian food is the same with the bikes, once you've eaten an hour later you have to have something else!!
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Boring. They're like arseholes. Everyone has them ;D
Ride something left of centre. Euro is the only way to go.
If everybody had one, no one would lose..... ::)
And I'd rather have a bike that works and starts than be left swearing at the start line flaggie to wait for to start my bike again.
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BigK,keep the Husky and buy a Honda.
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Boring. They're like arseholes. Everyone has them ;D
Ride something left of centre. Euro is the only way to go.
If everybody had one, no one would lose..... ::)
And I'd rather have a bike that works and starts than be left swearing at the start line flaggie to wait for to start my bike again.
No that's a fallacy . That's just poor bike prep from the owner...
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Don't fancy having my arsehole left of center, could be messy.... :o
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I'm conflicted. It's all the ME360's fault (see Honda thread under Christmas present). Damn pretty bikes.
K
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Dont Be Girly Man (to be said in a Arny voice):o Ride them both (at the same time) set them up in tandem then you can doa true comparison Hey you might even start a new trend ???
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I have never even ridden the Evo Honda's I would have thought the pick of the Jap evo's would have been the N/T RM?
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I have never even ridden the Evo Honda's I would have thought the pick of the Jap evo's would have been the N/T RM?
[/quoteTrue ;)
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I have never even ridden the Evo Honda's I would have thought the pick of the Jap evo's would have been the N/T RM?
Maybe for the big bore class.....BUT only because Honda didn't have an open class crosser back then ;D
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I have never even ridden the Evo Honda's I would have thought the pick of the Jap evo's would have been the N/T RM?
Maybe for the big bore class.....BUT only because Honda didn't have an open class crosser back then ;D
Comparing the Jap 250's The RM250N/T is not as good a bike as the YZ250H, CR & KX. And the YZ465 is the better of the Jap big bores.. But obviously Maico and Husky are better again :)
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I have never even ridden the Evo Honda's I would have thought the pick of the Jap evo's would have been the N/T RM?
Maybe for the big bore class.....BUT only because Honda didn't have an open class crosser back then ;D
Comparing the Jap 250's The RM250N/T is not as good a bike as the YZ250H, CR & KX. And the YZ465 is the better of the Jap big bores.. But obviously Maico and Husky are better again :)
Forget the rest Maicos are the best. Although clearly the 81 Maico 490 is the best Evo 500, the 250 is a very good bike also. Just ask BVD.
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Going from Husky to Honda I think that you will notice how good the Husky frame and suspension is , you can up grade the Honda forks and shock but you still got a few suprises coming with the frame flex.
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Going from Husky to Honda I think that you will notice how good the Husky frame and suspension is , you can up grade the Honda forks and shock but you still got a few suprises coming with the frame flex.
Too True.. The Honda needs shocks, forks and a swingarm to make it decent but it does have the engine!
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I have never even ridden the Evo Honda's I would have thought the pick of the Jap evo's would have been the N/T RM?
Maybe for the big bore class.....BUT only because Honda didn't have an open class crosser back then ;D
Comparing the Jap 250's The RM250N/T is not as good a bike as the YZ250H, CR & KX. And the YZ465 is the better of the Jap big bores.. But obviously Maico and Husky are better again :)
Forget the rest Maicos are the best. Although clearly the 81 Maico 490 is the best Evo 500, the 250 is a very good bike also. Just ask BVD.
The Maico is clearly the best because of all the World titles it won 8)
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I have never even ridden the Evo Honda's I would have thought the pick of the Jap evo's would have been the N/T RM?
Maybe for the big bore class.....BUT only because Honda didn't have an open class crosser back then ;D
Comparing the Jap 250's The RM250N/T is not as good a bike as the YZ250H, CR & KX. And the YZ465 is the better of the Jap big bores.. But obviously Maico and Husky are better again :)
Forget the rest Maicos are the best. Although clearly the 81 Maico 490 is the best Evo 500, the 250 is a very good bike also. Just ask BVD.
The Maico is clearly the best because of all the World titles it won 8)
Maico raced production bikes.. No production Jap bike in the Maico era ever won a world title!
We race production bikes..
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Yeah you are right, Maico didn't win any World Championships. That is probably because they couldn't afford to buy the Championships like Suzuki and Yamaha did. The bikes Joel Robert, Sylvan Goebers and Roger DeCoster raced were a lot lighter than the production Maicos, but still they finished next best to those riders.
But clearly I won't convince anyone who doesn't really know Maicos of how good they are, so you might as well just remain ignorant.
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Going from Husky to Honda I think that you will notice how good the Husky frame and suspension is , you can up grade the Honda forks and shock but you still got a few suprises coming with the frame flex.
Too True.. The Honda needs shocks, forks and a swingarm to make it decent but it does have the engine!
Even with all that the frame still flex's compared to a Euro bike , hence the extra brace that some factory riders used from the swingarm pivot to the top rail. How about a CR motor in a Husky frame?That would work.
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I didn't see too many Huskies or any other euro bike competing with Heiki Mikola on the big bore YZ. Brad Lackey on the Elsinore sure did though.. Frame flex or no frame flex, the Honda was a bike the privateers could jump on and have a chance, even against the big bores...
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I didn't see too many Huskies or any other euro bike competing with Heiki Mikola on the big bore YZ. Brad Lackey on the Elsinore sure did though.. Frame flex or no frame flex, the Honda was a bike the privateers could jump on and have a chance, even against the big bores...
Are you for real? Honda didn't even make a big bore production mx bike in 77/78 when Lackey was on Honda. It was a full on works bike buddy, no comparison to what we could buy.
Mikkola won 2 world titles on Husky in 74 & 76 which is what got him the factory Yamaha ride!
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Bad Brad never even rode an "Elsinore".....he rode a works "RC" Honda......not one part was off a production bike.
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Big K just do it -Red lemons aka Hondas are like fat chicks (I am sure you know the punch line) but hey it could be worse -you could have turned into a homo like Davey Crocket
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I didn't see too many Huskies or any other euro bike competing with Heiki Mikola on the big bore YZ. Brad Lackey on the Elsinore sure did though.. Frame flex or no frame flex, the Honda was a bike the privateers could jump on and have a chance, even against the big bores...
Are you for real? Honda didn't even make a big bore production mx bike in 77/78 when Lackey was on Honda. It was a full on works bike buddy, no comparison to what we could buy.
Mikkola won 2 world titles on Husky in 74 & 76 which is what got him the factory Yamaha ride!
Yep, I am for real alright. No one said Brad Lackey was on a big bore Honda. He was on a 250...and that's a fact. Mikola was on the 465 YZ. The only thing different to Brad Lackey's bike compared to a showroom bike externally was the number plates and the fox shocks. No doubt there was a lot of trickery going on inside the cases..
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I didn't see too many Huskies or any other euro bike competing with Heiki Mikola on the big bore YZ. Brad Lackey on the Elsinore sure did though.. Frame flex or no frame flex, the Honda was a bike the privateers could jump on and have a chance, even against the big bores...
Are you for real? Honda didn't even make a big bore production mx bike in 77/78 when Lackey was on Honda. It was a full on works bike buddy, no comparison to what we could buy.
Mikkola won 2 world titles on Husky in 74 & 76 which is what got him the factory Yamaha ride!
Yep, I am for real alright. No one said Brad Lackey was on a big bore Honda. He was on a 250...and that's a fact. Mikola was on the 465 YZ. The only thing different to Brad Lackey's bike compared to a showroom bike externally was the number plates and the fox shocks. No doubt there was a lot of trickery going on inside the cases..
Hahaha you are a class clown! Lackey on a 250 in the 500 class and Mikkola on a YZ465 in 1977... Put the bong down matey!
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No bong involved Johnny... Unfortunately, I gave that up years ago. Ok, I should of said Mikkola on the 400. Big deal, sue me. Give me the sack. Reduce my pay..... The point is, the Honda was a 250 competing against bigger bore bikes in the world MX GP. If you can't relate to that, maybe you need to start smoking some ganga mon...
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Lackeys 77 RC500 GP bike lived in Brisbane until a few months ago and I've seen it up close, the engine is about 50mm taller than a 78 CR250 because it's a 500!!
And that my friend is fact!
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500cc of pure horn ;) http://www.vintageworksbikes.com/1978HondaRC500.html
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By the way Conan, Honda didn't even make a CR250 in 77, one of the years Lackey raced Honda!
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Besides the fact you wouldn't be allowed to ride a 250 in the world GP's in the 500 class.....an open classer in those days would smoke a two fifty, they wouldn't see which way it went. The crown to have was the 500 class....250's and 125's are the learner classes so to speak.
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By the way Conan, Honda didn't even make a CR250 in 77, one of the years Lackey raced Honda!
Who was talking about 1977? Not me. I have seen the entire footage of the 1978 GP season and Brad Lackey was on a Honda. And there were 1977 CR250's. Not a very wanted or competitive bike, but I have seen one in the flesh in Wagga Wagga NSW. It had a 1977 tag on it and looked exactly the same as the '76 CR but with a bit more angle on the rear shocks.
Then again, maybe all the class A pharmaceuticals I was on at the time made me dyslexic ::)
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By the way Conan, Honda didn't even make a CR250 in 77, one of the years Lackey raced Honda!
Who was talking about 1977? Not me. I have seen the entire footage of the 1978 GP season and Brad Lackey was on a Honda. And there were 1977 CR250's. Not a very wanted or competitive bike, but I have seen one in the flesh in Wagga Wagga NSW. It had a 1977 tag on it and looked exactly the same as the '76 CR but with a bit more angle on the rear shocks.
Then again, maybe all the class A pharmaceuticals I was on at the time made me dyslexic ::)
Sorry dude but there definitely wasn't a CR250 in 77. Lackey rode Honda in 77 & 78 and you said he rode a CR250 in the 500 GPs.
And there is not even a slight chance a 250 would pass tech inspection for the 500 class!
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Yeah you are right, Maico didn't win any World Championships. That is probably because they couldn't afford to buy the Championships like Suzuki and Yamaha did. The bikes Joel Robert, Sylvan Goebers and Roger DeCoster raced were a lot lighter than the production Maicos, but still they finished next best to those riders.
But clearly I won't convince anyone who doesn't really know Maicos of how good they are, so you might as well just remain ignorant.
The riders you speak of were long gone before your greatest bike was ever built.
So tell me why a company that supposedly sold more 490's than the entire Honda Offroad fleet in 1981 could not entice one rider good enough to win a world title. Money is one thing but a world title is something else.
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Are you trying to tell me that the bike I saw with my own eyes wasn't actually there? Phew, maybe I did have too much ganga in my youth.... The 1977 model ID tag was in place on the headstem. The swingarm was different and the top shock mount location was different. The sidecovers were more like the same year 125.
And I did say that there was no doubt there was trickery going on inside the cases on Lackeys bike. But to the average Joe, the bike was a CR250.
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Back to K-Man, get off that euro crap and build the CR, reliable and easy to get parts.
No bing carby's, motaplat ignitions, shit bringing up bad memories.
Sure Honda's have some flaws, just fit a solid swingarm and be happy.
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Are you trying to tell me that the bike I saw with my own eyes wasn't actually there? Phew, maybe I did have too much ganga in my youth.... The 1977 model ID tag was in place on the headstem. The swingarm was different and the top shock mount location was different. The sidecovers were more like the same year 125.
And I did say that there was no doubt there was trickery going on inside the cases on Lackeys bike. But to the average Joe, the bike was a CR250.
Yes I am telling you there was no CR250 in 77, I'll show you genuine Honda brochures of the 76 and 78 CR250 and 76, 77 and 78 CR125, you show me a genuine Honda pic of a 77 CR250 and that'll settle it.
Lackey only ever raced a RC500 in 500 grand prix in his 2 years on Honda.. It was not possible or competitive to race a 250 in 500 gp's, hence the whole reason for the 360 Mugen kit!
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Back to K-Man, get off that euro crap and build the CR, reliable and easy to get parts.
No bing carby's, motaplat ignitions, shit bringing up bad memories.
Sure Honda's have some flaws, just fit a solid swingarm and be happy.
Frank maybe you could sell him a really nice genuine 360 Mugen?!
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Are you trying to tell me that the bike I saw with my own eyes wasn't actually there? Phew, maybe I did have too much ganga in my youth.... The 1977 model ID tag was in place on the headstem. The swingarm was different and the top shock mount location was different. The sidecovers were more like the same year 125.
And I did say that there was no doubt there was trickery going on inside the cases on Lackeys bike. But to the average Joe, the bike was a CR250.
Yes I am telling you there was no CR250 in 77, I'll show you genuine Honda brochures of the 76 and 78 CR250 and 76, 77 and 78 CR125, you show me a genuine Honda pic of a 77 CR250 and that'll settle it.
Lackey only ever raced a RC500 in 500 grand prix in his 2 years on Honda.. It was not possible or competitive to race a 250 in 500 gp's, hence the whole reason for the 360 Mugen kit!
I didn't take any photos of the bike. I had no idea it was a rare beasty. All I knew was that it was a CR that I din't have and I wanted to buy it so that i'd have '74, '75, '76, and a '77 to slot in between my '79. The answer was a big fat no.
So saying there was indeed an RC500, it must be possible to build such a beastie and race it in Evo?
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Only joking about euro bikes being crap, love euro bikes and have raced them for many years.
John preparing the Mugen for 2014 season as we speak, fitting Ohlins and hope to improve fork action.
K-Man can ride whatever he likes, why not try a Honda
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Yes and no TBM, it has to have been available to the general public in the Evo era and fit within the rules. Yes you can race a 360 Mugen but not a CR480/500 engined 79 CR250. It would be very expensive and difficult to turn the 250 engine into a 500 but not impossible.
Bigk has a real nice RC500 Lackey replica but not legal in the Evo class..
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Yeah I've seen Micheal's RC replica. Nice bike. Built from RZ bottom end and married to CR480 top end. I'll stick with my 250 RC replica. I spent enough money on it already without spending a few grand more on a bigger slug....
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Put the Honda engine into your favoured choice of a Euro frame.....Then at worst/best any way you think of it, you only have 50% of the current dilemma Biggie ;)
Spacial logic....
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Yeah you are right, Maico didn't win any World Championships. That is probably because they couldn't afford to buy the Championships like Suzuki and Yamaha did. The bikes Joel Robert, Sylvan Goebers and Roger DeCoster raced were a lot lighter than the production Maicos, but still they finished next best to those riders.
But clearly I won't convince anyone who doesn't really know Maicos of how good they are, so you might as well just remain ignorant.
The riders you speak of were long gone before your greatest bike was ever built.
So tell me why a company that supposedly sold more 490's than the entire Honda Offroad fleet in 1981 could not entice one rider good enough to win a world title. Money is one thing but a world title is something else.
The Maicos from 1974 up to probably 1980/81 were always competitive in the World Championships. I don't know why they didn't win a Championships, but I do know that if it was limited to production bikes there is every chance they could have.
Also it didn't matter how many dirt bikes Maico sold in 1981 do you really think they could match the money the Japanese could spend.
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So tell me why a company that supposedly sold more 490's than the entire Honda Offroad fleet in 1981 could not entice one rider good enough to win a world title. Money is one thing but a world title is something else.
Maico, even during their peak years were only a small maker, much smaller than Bultaco, Montesa Husqvarna and most of the other Euros. Despite that they fielded one of the strongest teams on the GP scene in the 1969-1975 era with three close runner up spots in the title by Ake Jonnson, Willi Bauer and Adolph Weil. By the mid seventies the factory was having trouble keeping up with the squillions of yen the Japs were throwing at R&D and they lost their solid place on the market. The 1974 model big bores were arguably the best bikes of the year but problems with the gearbox and hub castings on the early '75 models set them back a lot on the fickle US market. Despite great models like '77 AW400 and 78-79 Magnum models and then the great 1980 490, the company was in the shit financially preventing them from offering the huge amounts of money the Japs were paying to get the top riders. By 1982 the Maico company was even deeper in the shit and was totally gone by 1986. If they could have afforded a rider like Wolsink or DeCoster I've no doubt they'd have won a 500 title in 1981.
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Wasn't Dave Thorpe the first "million dollar" man when Honda poached him from Kawasaki in the early eighties?...Honda had that many top riders on there books they couldn't have lost a world tittle in the eighties. If you looked like you could ride a bike they gave you a contract!!! ;D
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Thanks Mark
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By the way Conan, Honda didn't even make a CR250 in 77, one of the years Lackey raced Honda!
Who was talking about 1977? Not me. I have seen the entire footage of the 1978 GP season and Brad Lackey was on a Honda. And there were 1977 CR250's. Not a very wanted or competitive bike, but I have seen one in the flesh in Wagga Wagga NSW. It had a 1977 tag on it and looked exactly the same as the '76 CR but with a bit more angle on the rear shocks.
Then again, maybe all the class A pharmaceuticals I was on at the time made me dyslexic ::)
John is right. There wasn't a production CR250 in 1977. The first of the red devils was 1978. I was given one to race by Frasers Honda in Brisbane at the start of 1978. The brand new model. I didn't like it and couldn't really live with it. I had raced a Maico 400 in 1977 so when comparing them the Maico was head and shoulders above the Honda. The Honda had a light switch as a powerband and crappy forks and shocks. I ended up going back to my Maico.
Kevin
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Wasn't Dave Thorpe the first "million dollar" man when Honda poached him from Kawasaki in the early eighties?...Honda had that many top riders on there books they couldn't have lost a world tittle in the eighties. If you looked like you could ride a bike they gave you a contract!!! ;D
but they did loose in 82 and 83 didn't they ?
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K keep Husqvarna and get the Honda too. Even i have one, albeit a 1980. Very mean 250, the way i like 250s. My Husqvarna makes smoother power but ill race both next year
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I thought I had found the best Evo 250 in a cr250 ra. Put a set of Simons up front. I just didn't like it.
I found the best all round Evo bike. An mc250. Goes as good as it looks!
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Dear diary,
It seems opinions vary greatly to the point of "a storm in a tea cup scenario" so I will indeed build one of each and make an informed choice. The euro is leading the race (pardon the pun) at this point. Will the full circle turbo crankshaft make the oriental too aggressive in it's power delivery for an average bear?
K
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Hi K ,have you heard of a cotton EMX !! Late 70's bike built in the uk by a chap called Mike Eatough who used to build frames for CCM.something a bit different if you can find one!!!!
There is a video on u tube of the bikes being built, I remember seeing them at local and british championship races, seem to go ok.
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Hi K ,have you heard of a cotton EMX !! Late 70's bike built in the uk by a chap called Mike Eatough who used to build frames for CCM.something a bit different if you can find one!!!!
There is a video on u tube of the bikes being built, I remember seeing them at local and british championship races, seem to go ok.
Cool, looks very much like a Villa/Can-am from that era, But, good strong donk the Rotax, all Marzocchi Suspension the thing would be a weapon in the right hands:)
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K ,have you heard of a cotton EMX !! Late 70's bike built in the uk by a chap called Mike Eatough who used to build frames for CCM.something a bit different if you can find one!!!!
There is a video on u tube of the bikes being built, I remember seeing them at local and british championship races, seem to go ok.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQbZiiGGTi4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQbZiiGGTi4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAXnv29lxJw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAXnv29lxJw)
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Cool.
K
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The first Red devil single down tube has a fast engine but is not a very nice bike to ride, it has a husky copy frame without the strength or rigidity!.
The 1980 twin down tube bike is a much better deal to ride once you get it moving around, and it will steer better than your Husky!
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but the 80 RA had a fairly mellow motor without work.
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I have a special build centre port '79 CR250 Honda. Wonder what it will be like? Only time will tell.
K
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but the 80 RA had a fairly mellow motor without work.
Mainly due to the std pipe, put another pipe on and they come alive!
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and piston, and cylinder - aka ME 250 kit ;D
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Have you ridden one ,I can remember T boning one in a corner in 79 a nice new one because it wouldn't turn in the corners.
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and piston, and cylinder - aka ME 250 kit ;D
Yeah Ross a Mugen kit would be the go but they seem pretty rare for 250 RZ & RA these days.. I see more 360 kits for sale.
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I agree JO - so just had a spare cylinder and piston modified as close as I can get to Mugen specs - will be interesting to see how it goes compared to standard.
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That Cotton looks like a good thing Firko. I've never put my eyes onto that late a model Cotton. I thought they closed in the early 70's. Obviously not
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Yes I have ridden them both, and many Husqvarnas,
I stated the 79 was not so nice to ride, and that the 80 will steer better than the Husqvarna,
Have you ridden a Husqvarna?
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Everyone says Huskies don't steer, but I have never found that to be true, I do use upright bar mounts rather than the laybacks though. Maybe they just suit my style. A Honda will be interesting and may only last a lap or two until my brain gets "right" and sticks with what I know. I'll look at it as trying a brunette over my favored blonde.
K
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I did a lap on the cr 1944 125 Honda at Echuca Vinduro ... a real steering track. I found the husky 400 steered as good as the Honda, was much smoother in the suspension dept (MX) and was a heap better to ride ( im old!) but that little light switch motor....waaaaaaa, waaaaaaaa great fun!
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John, 1944 Honda 125??? Do you mean 1974 cr125M?
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"1944 Honda 125" Were ya screaming Tora Tora Tora lining up the next destroyer ??
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The first Red devil single down tube has a fast engine but is not a very nice bike to ride, it has a husky copy frame without the strength or rigidity!.
The 1980 twin down tube bike is a much better deal to ride once you get it moving around, and it will steer better than your Husky!
Exactly !
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but the 80 RA had a fairly mellow motor without work.
depending on the track the more torquey motor of the RA works very well .Smithton 1981 I beat Kelleher on his new 420KX to take C grade and beat everyone on their newer prolinks etc except for Grant Cramer and 3 others in the last feature race.
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MM - what was your race number then - I was in B grade on my Mugen RA at that time.
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MM - what was your race number then - I was in B grade on my Mugen RA at that time.
96 from memory , maybe with a V. I got a pic somewhere .
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John, 1944 Honda 125??? Do you mean 1974 cr125M?
1984 was meant to appear in that sentence >:(dislexic