OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Husqvarna => Topic started by: kenny5000 on December 14, 2013, 06:46:14 pm
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After getting the idea in my head that I need to get the fork performance of my Husky (in the build up stage but should be complete within the month) matching the rear Works Performances shocks that it has, Im now thinking about some emulators. I am just wondering what peoples opinions are, pro/cons etc and ease of fitting and adjustment. Also any info on the YSS version.
Cheers
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Sorry to hijack the thread but does anyone know the difference between Yss and the racetech emulators?
Are they the same?
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im still trying to find out wtf a emulators is
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Emulators provide a sort of shim stack valving to damper-rod forks. Short version is that they significantly improve the performance of old style (pre-cartridge) forks by eliminating the spike on fast hits.
They don't make the old forks as good as a set of properly set-up cartridge forks, but they go a long way toward it.
Personally, I've been very happy with the service I've had from RaceTech. They've given me no reason to avoid giving them my money.
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Nathan have you fitted them yourself?
Is there much to it?
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I had racetech fitted to my yz125d and it cost me like 900 bucks and they where harsh as.
I emailed racetech and they told me to change the emulator spring and they were heaps better.
I would like to fit some to the cr125re I am building but not sure what machining is needed.
I will stear clear of the Yss so thanks for the tip.
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I had racetech fitted to my yz125d and it cost me like 900 bucks and they where harsh as.
I emailed racetech and they told me to change the emulator spring and they were heaps better.
I would like to fit some to the cr125re I am building but not sure what machining is needed.
I will stear clear of the Yss so thanks for the tip.
$900 bucks shit he seen you coming , They sit on top of the damper rods , then you have to drill bigger holes in the damper rods or more holes , shorten the springs or top spacers to make up for the emulator.
I had to cut and change the top of my damper rod to take the emulator. but $900 seems alot :o
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I had racetech fitted to my yz125d and it cost me like 900 bucks and they where harsh as.
I emailed racetech and they told me to change the emulator spring and they were heaps better.
I would like to fit some to the cr125re I am building but not sure what machining is needed.
I will stear clear of the Yss so thanks for the tip.
Was that just for the emulators? Most of their late 70's yz125 kits are listed for under 200
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I have emulators on all my vintage bikes, big improvement. Proper spring rate for your weight and riding style is equally important. Very easy to tune, but you have to willing to play with them. If you look around, they can be bought for around 130-140.
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I had a set of YSS in my Yz 125 G and it made a huge differance especially on sharp edge bumps took the sudden shock out of them so you hit them faster without the bike moving. A+ idea highly reccomended
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To fit eliminators correctly you also have to change the springs. Heavier or lighter main springs. There is also a company in the UK that makes and fits cartridges to forks. So they can turn old vintage forks into modern cartridge forks. The catch is you have to give them your forks to do it, because they machine and hone the inside of the forks so the cartridge seals.
Also the dampening of the eliminators is adjustable.
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You don't have to go that far ;D
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I leaning towards the Race Tech emulators but will wait until I ridden the completed bike before taking the plunge. After looking at the Race Tech website I states that I need adaptors that sit between the damping rod and emulator. This appears to add about 40 mm+/- on top of the damping rod (combined height of emulator and adaptor). Those that have fitted them did you have to alter the length of the fork springs? I also looked at the Race Tech springs and unless Im reading the info wrong it states that they are 375mm long where the originals are 575mm. At any rate I have the part numbers for the emulators and adaptors so will buy locally and they can then supply springs so if I get wrong ones they are easily returned!!
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Be careful with easily returned. If you order them ( not in stock, most likely with vintage stuff ) you will not be able to return them. Check suppliers terms first.
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I'll be sure to check there returns policy beforehand!!
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I had racetech fitted to my yz125d and it cost me like 900 bucks and they where harsh as.
I emailed racetech and they told me to change the emulator spring and they were heaps better.
I would like to fit some to the cr125re I am building but not sure what machining is needed.
I will stear clear of the Yss so thanks for the tip.
Was that just for the emulators? Most of their late 70's yz125 kits are listed for under 200
Yep and the machining!
I will do them myself this time .
Does anyone know if you need to machine the top of the rod on a 84 cr???
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I leaning towards the Race Tech emulators but will wait until I ridden the completed bike before taking the plunge. After looking at the Race Tech website I states that I need adaptors that sit between the damping rod and emulator. This appears to add about 40 mm+/- on top of the damping rod (combined height of emulator and adaptor). Those that have fitted them did you have to alter the length of the fork springs? I also looked at the Race Tech springs and unless Im reading the info wrong it states that they are 375mm long where the originals are 575mm. At any rate I have the part numbers for the emulators and adaptors so will buy locally and they can then supply springs so if I get wrong ones they are easily returned!!
You have to make an adaptor for the emulator to sit in. It's basically like a socket that gets welded (bronzed) to the end of the dampening rod. To fit it properly, you need to make sure that the top of the socket the emulator valve sits in is the same original total length of the dampening rod. Spring length should remain the same unless you are after more/less preload. Not sure about the '84 CR's, but I'd imagine you need to do the same thing as above.
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Race Tech have adaptors to suit my application (75 250GP) listed on their website thankfully!
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It takes away why you ride old bikes if you put things that were not available in the day.
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It takes away why you ride old bikes if you put things that were not available in the day.
I disagree completely. The charm of the old bikes is still there with better suspension, the only thing missing is the pain the next day. Don't get me wrong, I love period correct vintage bikes but they are best for display not regular riding. Just my opinion....
Wow, did I really just open that can of worms?
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It doesn't matter what you do to 7 and 4 suspension. All it does is hold the bike up ;D Seriously, I wouldn't race a stock 7 and 4 travel bike. The original suspension components are usually stuffed for a start and will cost a small fortune to rebuild them or replace if you can find the parts, which might be worthwhile if you are doing a 100% correct resto. There are better options for racing so why not use them?
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It takes away why you ride old bikes if you put things that were not available in the day.
If you're trying to compete with people who have considerably better suspension, then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.
Maybe the rules could be changed to mandate old spec stuff only, but the hassle of checking and enforcing compliance would outweigh any possible benefit.
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I have been installing Racetech emulators(176.00) new seals , oil etc...for 250.00 that includes my time...900 bucks is a total rip off unless your not telling us something big ! The emulators are simple to install...
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They are similar, one is a copy of the other, must take care how they are fitted and like anything away from standard, then need to be set up to get the best from them.
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So if I fitted the emulators (with race tech adaptors) myself what would i need to look out for. From all the info I can see online they basically sit on top of the damping rods and are held in place by fork spring. Tuning aside which will take time after riding what else needs to be done. Race Tech say to resurface the head of the damping rod, how extreme is the resurface?? Any other issues in fitting?
Cheers
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So if I fitted the emulators (with race tech adaptors) myself what would i need to look out for.
Cheers
First would be someone who wants to charge $900. Next would be anyone who said how hard it is to fit them. My experience was
Measure damper rod piston ID(not tube)
Measure PD valve OD
No machining required.
Set damper rods in V block
Drilled new holes at 90 deg to the existing holes
Debured and radiused new and existing holes
Reassembled forks
Set air gap to 190mm (spring out fully compressed) with 10wt oil
Installed spring, top cap and put back on bike
Not touched since.
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Cheers Lozza,
What bike was the above for?
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So if I fitted the emulators (with race tech adaptors) myself what would i need to look out for.
Cheers
Set air gap to 190mm (spring out fully compressed) with 10wt
190 air gap? that's huge. Is that what they recommend with the PD valves?
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My TS400 forks, 190mm air gap was a generic figure I remembered/read on the net/was told/plucked out of my arse, end up withe good high and low speed damping, progreesive damping with stroke and no more blown seals. Mind this was 5 or 6 yrs ago I did that might have been 90mm
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Can anyone suggest a supplier in OZ??? Shock treatment have them in stock and ready to ship. Who else is gooD for pricing??
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I got a set of the PD ones - installed in my YZB - whilst I found out later (much later) the installation was very ordinary they worked very well - noticeable difference.
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Is it technically legal or not for VMX?
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Legal.
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Is it technically legal or not for VMX?
Fork internals are free Ken ( According to the secretary )
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Love to see gear made here in OZ.
Cheers Mick
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Whatever you do don't get Teknik valves, mine torn apart in my forks in the first 1/2 hour on the bike, and not doing moto either, and they were fitted by teknik...... >:( >:(
Racetech ones that replaced them were at least twice as thick material in the body!!!! 8) 8)
Thats my 2 cents... ;) ;)
Cheers
Kim
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Is it technically legal or not for VMX?
Good question.
There is nothing in the GCRs saying you can fit emulators. There also isn't anything saying you can change ignitions or use modern shocks etc. It appears to be one of the unwritten rules.
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It's the rules that say what you can't do that you need to pay heed to! If it is not banned then it is OK...until it's banned later ::)
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It's the rules that say what you can't do that you need to pay heed to! If it is not banned then it is OK...until it's banned later ::)
nice way of putting it ;) the old external stock appearing
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The PD valves are designed and made in Australia . Depends where you live , you support your local product . http://store.suspensionshop.org/bultaco/mx/1980-1989/70-80-matador-pd-fork-valve.html
If you want to live in a country that build things .... you have to buy things your country builds ...
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Are using all this modern stuff which was not around then taking away from what and how these old bikes were so changing the whole idea of riding old bikes instead of new bikes in old clothing. To me your cheating yourselves of what riding old bikes are about. Just my idea I know, it's not everyone else's.
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Are using all this modern stuff which was not around then taking away from what and how these old bikes were so changing the whole idea of riding old bikes instead of new bikes in old clothing. To me your cheating yourselves of what riding old bikes are about. Just my idea I know, it's not everyone else's.
I couldn't afford "Simmons" (factory yellow) forks back in the day (described as "anti cavitation" from memory). Pretty sure the factory's all had better fork internals. Any of them like the the emulators being discussed?
My suspension guy, who has revalved all my modern forks said (of my old RM forks) "if they go up and down, without leaking, they are as good as they get".
They actually seem ok to me, although after all the fun on the "drunks hill" jump at CD, they are leaking....
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To me I don't really care what sort of internals you have got inside your forks, motor or whatever. The first and most important thing with a build for me is if it looks externally correct/period and meets the rules if used for competition if those are requirements/desires. Is the finish correct, is the colour correct? I will admit I am pretty pedantic with that stuff. I go to great lengths to research correct colours, finishes and decals. I do not expect others, especially ones building bikes specifically for chasing trophies or on a budget to have the same outlook. Those details do not matter to some. Some are just concerned with meeting the bare min requirements of the rules. That is fine. That’s not to say i will only use NOS decals with 1970’s adhesive on them but I will go to great lengths and do a lot of research to find out if what I want to use or correctly reproduce or claim reproduced as an exact reproduction will look correct and be correct. I am quite obsessed with attention to details . For me I like the vintage and period bikes that I like because of what they look like. Unless I was racing and desperately wanted another (there becomes a point where they are a pain in the arse to store/display and are dust collectors) plastic trophy then I would fit emulators and use the best modern shocks and modifications I could afford that met the rules, after I was sure my riding ability and fitness was the best it could be as well. I actually have got a set of emulators for some 36mm KYB forks sitting doing nothing, new in packet and I would actually rather spend double the price on reproducing period correct internal parts or modifications than fit them. But like I said I am totally obsessed with being as period correct as realistically possible. I would much rather fit a vintage ‘fork kit’ or use restored period correct shocks or engine internals (eg not modern V-force reed blocks) that were available when the bike was current, even if the rules allowed me to fit more modern stuff.
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Race Tech fork Gold Valve Emulators are the only ones I've tried that haven't tore themselves apart in the forks.
You'll also get two different rates of preload spring with the Race Tech emulators and they are extremely solid units.
Take the time to set them up properly (with the right rate spring) and you'll have a very enjoyable ride.
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Thanks for the plug . R%oss Nimmo Carpet cleaning . Yes easy to install and very effective. Sturdy and robust at $149 per set . http://store.suspensionshop.org/maico/mx/1960-1969/68-70-mc-250-pd-fork-valve.html
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We've only done suspension the past few years Walter but nice try.
If you need shocks for that Maico, I can get you Race Tech or YSS (these at a really cheap price) for you.
I had no idea Thailand was part of Australia!?
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We've only done suspension the past few years Walter but nice try.
If you need shocks for that Maico, I can get you Race Tech or YSS (these at a really cheap price) for you.
I had no idea Thailand was part of Australia!?
what shock do yo want what to fit what year ?
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I have the compression valves on a few of my bikes. Even without extensive testing adjusting they make a positive diference. The 2 sets of Racetech units, in a 84 CR500 and a RM 370 are from brass, strong and well finished - chamfered and deburred and with alternate springs. I also have YSS set. These are made fom anodised aluminium and are thin section and look to be a bit short on mecanical strength. Service was a bit ordinairy. I was sent the wrong items but refused a return. I ended up using them on forks they were intended for and if installed according to instructions would have reduced the fork travel, hammered the valves as the spring coil bound and very likely with the damper rod mods required, pulled off on full extension.
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You must have used the black ones Momus . I know of the downfalls on them , thats why they got replaced with the brass ones in 2009 . I am doing a new series right now with a couple of improvements .