OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Graeme M on December 13, 2013, 02:59:56 pm

Title: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Graeme M on December 13, 2013, 02:59:56 pm
OK, so here's a simple question right? But not so simple when you start reading the various thoughts and opinions, not least those expressed here in the past.

I want to race dirt track on my 1980 RM250 in 2014. But what oil to run?

After due consideration, I have the following possibilities:

Castrol Activ 2T at 20:1 (my preference)
Motul 710 at 25:1
Motul 800 at 30:1

What's the best option? or is there another? I'm not necessarily asking for an in-depth technical exposition, cos I reckon any of these will work just fine. But I thought I'd just take everyone's opinion on board before I decide.

For the record, I ran my IT175 and RM125M on Castrol Activ at 20:1 for several years with great results, and my '05 YZ125 on Motul 800 at 30:1 on dirt track for years with great results.

Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Mick D on December 13, 2013, 03:03:55 pm
Glory has a price.

Out of those three, my choice would be Motul 800.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: kdx 175 on December 13, 2013, 03:29:48 pm
I run motol 800 50/1 pluse octane boost  ring it neck to try catch them Honda 250 hasn't gone pop yet
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: mainline on December 13, 2013, 03:32:25 pm
I don't think you can go wrong with the motul 800.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Graeme M on December 13, 2013, 04:23:11 pm
Yeah, I use octane booster as well...  I run the Motul 800 at 30:1 in the YZ125 as I figure the oilier mix (than the recommended 40 or 50:1) will help the bottom end. I know 800 is a thick oil to begin with but I figure my jetting being spot on and the modern ignition will help to keep things on track with that mixture. But not so sure about the RM where the jetting is not quite as good and the ignition is not so flash even when new.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Mick D on December 13, 2013, 04:28:15 pm
Hey,,,,,,,,,,,,,,yeah,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so,,,,,,,,,,,,
Whats the name of this octane booster, and where do ya get it?
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: kdx 175 on December 13, 2013, 04:54:24 pm
from super cheap autos
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Mick D on December 13, 2013, 05:02:26 pm
Thanks, I will give it a go.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: KTM47 on December 13, 2013, 05:04:35 pm
Why not try a Castor based synthetic oil.

Shell have a good one Shell Advance Racing M 30

There is also a Maxima also have one Castor 927

They smell a lot better than the other oils.

I run the Maico on it at 30 to 1

Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Graeme M on December 13, 2013, 05:17:10 pm
I read a big comparo of octane boosters in one of the car mags a few years back. Most did nothing but the standout performer was Nulon Pro Octane Booster. Super Cheap Auto.

(http://images.getprice.com.au/uploadimg/1277/250_1152.jpg)

Mind you...
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1294795
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Tim754 on December 13, 2013, 09:41:42 pm
Mmm Octane boosters  yep Nulon super is the go for the public.
Warning  "Benzine" is the bees knees for petrol boost....BUT..... it is banned for public sale.. Something about it being readily absorbed through the skin and over 200+ times more likely to cause cancer to you than asbestos. Read the labels and follow the handling and mixing instructions.  Lead did any fool mention lead...

 Motul 800 at the recommended level on their web site for your bikes Graeme ;)

Or good old R30 and just love the scent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Lozza on December 13, 2013, 10:51:18 pm
Castor/Synthetic oil is still the best there is and there are pump fuels available that have higher octane ratings than all bar 1 additive(not Nulon either) can give.  Most GP teams used Elf 957, Motorex Kart , Agip Kart or a Repsol oil I have never seen in Australia depending on who their fuel sponsor/supplier was(only homologated fuels are allowed in GP's). 
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: JohnnyO on December 14, 2013, 12:56:13 am
I've been using Motul 800 at 40:1 for years with never a failure and long piston and bearing life.
Running it at 30:1 just costs more and makes more mess with unburned oil dripping out the pipe and silencer.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Lozza on December 14, 2013, 06:31:29 am
Unburnt oil on the tail pipe is an indication of the level of engine tuning, nothing to do with oil brand or ratios.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Graeme M on December 14, 2013, 06:48:36 am
That was my understanding too from what I've read. I used 800 at 30:1 on the 125 racing dirt track and never had a moments bother. I believe my jetting was spot on and there was never any wet oil to be seen.

But the RM250 won't be turning those revs and the bottom end is somewhat older...   ;D ;D

By the way Lozza, I sold the 125 and took the risk, bought a YZF250. It immediately shat itself big time.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Ted on December 14, 2013, 08:01:14 am
Maxima 927 Castor @30:1 for all my 125's. Never had a problem.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on December 14, 2013, 09:09:21 am
Graeme - I tried Motul 800 on my 360 at one point and "blew" so much more smoke at the same oil ratio as my normally used Silolene Comp 2 Pro SX - like what most guys are saying here  - I have not had any motor issues at all - run at 40:1
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Tim754 on December 14, 2013, 06:10:23 pm
"Unburnt oil on the tail pipe is an indication of the level of engine tuning, nothing to do with oil brand or ratios."

It's a bloody hard message to get across hey Lozza >:(  Still we got to keep trying. :) Cheers Tim754

Thanks for the kick in the pants reminder Ted :D  Maxima 927 is good gear also !
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Big Scotty on December 14, 2013, 06:23:24 pm
I use castrol 2t in all my bikes,25 to 1 in my 125/400 and at 50to1 in my ktm ,ktm hasn't had a rebuild in four and a half years,when we were kids all our bikes ran at 20to1 like the factory manual said,they used to keep on keeping on,I think as we get older we tend to analyse everything instead of just riding and having fun
Cheers scotty
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: VMX Andrew on December 14, 2013, 06:58:33 pm
I use Castrol TTS in all my bikes at around 32.1.
Bought 4 litres at Super Cheap Auto for $65 at the
start of the year which i thought was a bargain considering 1 litre
costs around $33.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: kdx 175 on December 14, 2013, 07:02:04 pm
in my younger days I used mc1 belray  at 50.1 I don't know if it you can still  get it 
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: KTM47 on December 15, 2013, 11:51:45 am
I've been using Motul 800 at 40:1 for years with never a failure and long piston and bearing life.
Running it at 30:1 just costs more and makes more mess with unburned oil dripping out the pipe and silencer.

I don't worry about the cost.  Shell is the best.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on December 15, 2013, 12:22:35 pm
is it possible for 2 stroke oil to go off?
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: JohnnyO on December 15, 2013, 12:37:39 pm

I don't worry about the cost.  Shell is the best.
Shell?? You're on your own there Kev!
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: KTM47 on December 15, 2013, 12:57:55 pm
I get it at the right price.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Davey Crocket on December 15, 2013, 01:05:38 pm
This is where Kev has to come clean and admit he is sponsored by "Shell"...like John Laws.....you know what I mean...LOL....I guess running Shell goes with those German dinosuars you ride....whats older Kev?.....your oil, Maygo or your old spice aftershave?...LOL.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: KTM47 on December 15, 2013, 03:49:44 pm
If I was sponsored by Shell Advance I would be running graphics with Shell on.  There is nothing wrong with Shell product and yes I do get some for free.  I've also got heaps of Shell caps, shirts and jackets.

I wish I got paid as much as John Laws.

Kevin 
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: popeye on December 15, 2013, 04:20:08 pm
Air cooled bike I was running Castrol R 30 for obvious reasons 30-1. And the later Water cooled bikes my 125 and CR500 @ 50-1 Motoul 800 never a problem
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: vandy010 on December 15, 2013, 05:17:12 pm

I don't worry about the cost.  Shell is the best.
Shell?? You're on your own there Kev!
Umm...
actually,
no he's not...
i picked up a heap of Shell mineral oil cheap years ago at a bike shop clean out and have always run my 2 strokes on it...
i run it pretty rich at anywhere from 20~1 to 30~1 and have never had issues...
even my little TY175 plods along nicely with my "one fuel mix for all" habit...
i use and recommend Shell... 8)
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: KTM47 on December 15, 2013, 10:51:46 pm
and it smells fantastic also
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Davey Crocket on December 15, 2013, 10:59:40 pm
Your both freaks. ;D
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Colin Jay on December 16, 2013, 08:15:00 pm
I won't try and recommend any oil, but I can show what bad oil can do;

(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/coljay/bad-oil_zpsdac2eb83.jpg)

I pulled this engine down yesterday. Not the flashest of VMX super exotica, just a lowly mid 1970's Yamaha AG100. I suspect it got the oil that was universally used on all out back properties through the 70's and 80's: Shell rimula X diesel oil. Over the years I have seen so many bikes, both 2 and 4 strokes that have come to an inglorious halt due to being feed a diet of oil meant for diesel engines.

Some time it just makes you wonder how the poor things actually kept running. Obviously, when the engine doesn't produce much power you don't know when it is starting to lose it.

CJ
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: yungy on December 16, 2013, 08:23:21 pm
Being in the industry over many years I have seen all types & tried a few myself. & the best I have found by far is bel ray h1r run at 40 to 1 in most modern stuff or can be run at 32 to 1 & always found power valves in good condition as apposed to shell & motul & maxima isn't to bad either
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Tim754 on December 16, 2013, 09:25:45 pm
Col remember the universal  engine/transmission/hydraulic Agri oils were/are the default back up to Rimula X ;) :D :D :D
Seen clogged agi bike bores like that so often! How the hell they still run is beyond me too!
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Sorelegs11 on December 17, 2013, 09:34:37 am
I was running octane booster with no problems-Lucas.
A while back Lucas puut out a memo saying not to use it in 2 strokes.
They did not offer an explanation and the Rep can't tell me anything either.  ???
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: pancho on December 17, 2013, 12:26:21 pm
Col remember the universal  engine/transmission/hydraulic Agri oils were/are the default back up to Rimula X ;) :D :D :D
Seen clogged agi bike bores like that so often! How the hell they still run is beyond me too!
Yeah but they were nice and quite out the exhaust!
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Viper666 on December 19, 2013, 10:05:37 am

Motul 800 30-35:1 in all mt (2T) bikes 1978 - 2006.

As you said Graeme, jet it right & no problems.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: firko on December 19, 2013, 03:04:11 pm
Quote
your old spice aftershave?...LOL
That's it Crockett, you've stepped over the chalk line. I'll put up with your underhanded Maico Breako jibes, I'll persevere with your incessant pro Queensland/New Zealand* waffle and I'll even tolerate your right wing facist political rants. I will not however take your blatantly cruel and cheap jibes at my Eau de Cologne of choice, Old Spice without a fight. Along with Brut and Grey Flannel, Old Spice is the odeur de choix of a generation of Australian baby boomer, old fart, fuddy duddy, bully boy 'dudes' and I'm not going to let a Snidely Whiplash wannabe like you belittle the esteemed potion, nosiree Bob. You're on notice Crockett.   

* Whatever nationality you happen to be that day.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: pancho on December 19, 2013, 03:22:49 pm
 Hey you lot, I prefer "oil Of R" anyday, what do you reckon Foss?, Slides?
 cheers pancho.
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: JAP 454 on December 19, 2013, 04:31:08 pm
That's the one, Wal, preferably pepped up  just a tad with Nitro !!!
Foss
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: Davey Crocket on December 19, 2013, 06:08:59 pm
That's OK dude....I'm a brut man myself. ;D
Title: Re: Oils aint oils Sol
Post by: firko on December 19, 2013, 09:30:08 pm
Quote
That's OK dude....I'm a brut man myself.
Why doesn't that surprise me?........Who remembers an aftershave called Menage? The ads used to claim "Menage, for men who don't have to try" 8). Karen, my girlfriend at the time  used to break out in sneezing fits whenever anyone wore it anywhere near her. If someone had it on in our house she'd go through the place spraying Mortein, the only stuff she reckoned that neutralised it. ;D
You had to love those sixties and seventies.