OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: firko on June 05, 2008, 11:16:36 am
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Here's are rare bike at a very good price. Beamish frames were the go back in the day to sort out the supposedly overweight and poor handling RL. As a collector of aftermarket framed bikes I'd be bidding on this if I didn't have too many projects already (and a cash flow deficit!) eBay # 220240367552
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The Beamish RL's are still pretty popular in Europe and not expensive as this bike shows Firko. About $1500au for a pretty decent normal RL is near top dollar here but I doubt a Beamish would go for much more in the UK. You may see them advertised for more but they don't have the following of trail or MX bikes and rarely would one fetch $2000. If you look around most older trials bikes are reasonably cheap unless it is something super duper rare or from the 50' and 60's. The Beamish RL's a rare thing here alright but not so rare over yonder motherland. Plenty of parts available and anything not available genuine is available via reproduction parts. I can probably get more reproduction and improvement parts for an RL than I could for the TM or TS. As much as the RL325's are supposedly the ducks guts I reckon they look absolutely pox in the styling dept. compared to the very appealing Jap versions. A stock RL weighs sweet fa too..about 89kgs..less than a TM125 and they actually handle pretty well if your not overly trials fanatical and just play around like moi. I've got 2 RL's now and even stock standard they are nothing short of bulk fun to ride. They have decent ratios with a good top end unlike most trials bike and this makes them a great playbike and not so serious trials mount. I love em' in case you hadn't noticed ;D this sounds stupid but for mine I'd begrudgingly take a Beamish RL over a stocker of the same condition only because of peer pressure( and a little common sense), they really do nothing for me unlike the 74 and 75 models ;)
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I bow to your knowledge on RLs Doc. I've got no doubt they're not too bad a trials bike but I they're uglier than shit, the Suzuki styling department must have been on strike that week. I wouldn't know a decent trials bike from a good one but must wonder why it was deemed they needed an aftermarket frame, you don't see too many aftermarket frames for other 70s issue trials bikes. In fact, you see more Beamish Suzukis than genuine RLs in the UK. There had to be a reason the stock frames were replaced so often. Maybe that's why Suzuki quickly got out of the trials business.
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There had to be a reason the stock frames were replaced so often. Maybe that's why Suzuki quickly got out of the trials business.
You can buy a frame brace kit from the U.K to suit the stock RL frame as it was prone to cracks and breakages at the rear of motor/ frame to tail section
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I remember talking to a bloke from AMCN who slammed the bike mercilessly but by the time his article came out it was the best thing since the Sammy Miller Sherpa. I wonder if the full page Suzuki ad across the page from the article had anything to do with his change of heart.
;D it wouldn't happen, not our objective 'by motorcyclists for motorcyclists' press. ;D
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I bow to your knowledge on RLs Doc. I've got no doubt they're not too bad a trials bike but I they're uglier than shit, the Suzuki styling department must have been on strike that week. I wouldn't know a decent trials bike from a good one but must wonder why it was deemed they needed an aftermarket frame, you don't see too many aftermarket frames for other 70s issue trials bikes. In fact, you see more Beamish Suzukis than genuine RLs in the UK. There had to be a reason the stock frames were replaced so often. Maybe that's why Suzuki quickly got out of the trials business.
There were also Miller Hi boy frames for Honda TLs and Whitelock frames for Yamaha TYs, these were both popular conversions in the UK in the 70s :)
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You can also add Majesty frames for the TY250 and 175 Yamaha to your list of after market frames for Jap trials bikes.
I still have my Kawasaki KT250A (my first bike bought new in 1975) in the back of the shed that I intend to rebuild one day, along with 2 Bultaco 350 Sherpas.
CJ
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Ok, Ok! ;D I knew well that there were aftermarket frames for TY and TL trials bikes but they are pretty rare when compared to the Beamish Suzuki frames. Nearly every RL on Brit eBay is a Beamish, in fact there are two at present and no genuine versions at all.
Trials bikes are becoming more and more popular with vintage fans looking for another outlet for their hobby. I've got my unique Maico trials bike and a TY250 hiding in the shed down on the farm waiting for it's turn in the resto room. A mate has imported two Mexican made GRM (Cooper)trials bikes and another has just picked up a rough but going TL125 $100 via his local rag. Yet another mate is collecting parts to build a Villiers powered Wassell. I've been looking for a bare Beamish frame for a project I have in mind for down the track.
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Sticks and stones eh :o ..RL's fat an' ugly eh! ::) ya nothin' but a pack of jealous buggers! :P :D
Just a sec, I'll put on my yellow goggles..'I' still say they are a beeeeeuuuuuutiful bike and shear bliss to ride! ;D If one was 'half serious' about trials then yep..stuff the old jap shit..buy a new Sherco or something half decent ;) Now this from a non trials but vintage trail enthusiasts view... I do agree the frame left a lot to be desired. The main reason was not geometry but simply because it was a first attempt at a 'production' chrome moly frame from Suzuki and they sadly stuffed it up. It has slow steering and a comparatively long wheelbase but this matched with wide TS250 ratios in 3rd 4th and 5th make for a bike that is more like a super super light trailbike to ride. The grunt of several angry mountain goats down low, the weight of a 125 or less and they are stable at 60mph on the open fire trails. Something that scared the piss out of me on my brothers twitchy TY was anything over 60kph. Interestingly the Japanese RL's performance seems to have been reassessed in more recent years with suggestions that it is/was more forgiving for average riders than the subsequent Beamish framed examples that followed '76 thru '79 and onto the 325's. The original Jap 250's are now commanding as much money and attention as the Beamish counterparts and they are still relatively cheap in comparison to vintage MX'ers. I dislike the Beamish RL simply on the asthetics only cause I'm like that. I'm not foolish enough to doubt the Beamish engine, handling and workmanship superiority . After they introduced the reed valved engine I lost all interest completely as it became too 'modern' in the engine department. Different strokes for different folks, oddballs included, I think they are a fun bike and I have 2 if someone wants to go for a ride sometime and see for themselves they are not as bad as everyone would have you believe ;) and just for the record..after the RL my next pick would most definately be the KT250 such as col has tucked away 8)
that original ebay Beamish only sold for about $700au but don't despair..here's another and Firko, he has other parts..maybe a frame 160245297344
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I'm with you Doc. I think the RL looks okay. It looks 'wrong' for a trials bike (long and rangy, not short stubby and business like) but it looks neat tidy and together (unlike the Spanish and brits that looked cobbled together.
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On the 'some think it's sexy and some think it's plug ugly' type of discussion I've chosen the Uma Thurman analogy.
I think Uma Thurman is sexy; she doesn't think so and many other people don't either.
Eyes too far apart, a bit gangly etc; not your classic beauty but there's something about her.
To me that's what I see in the RL - good lookin' but not in the usual way.
I'm finished now.
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I think they're a good looking bike in either standard or Beamish spec...
I also know where there's a (Suzuki) frame for sale, if anyone cares.
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RLs aren't really that ugly, it's really only the tank that spoils their looks. If you want ugly trials bikes, look no further than Brownys Husky and my Maico (below) ;D. The crap front guard on the Maico is gone already and is replaced by a Monty Cota item. Sorry to hijack the thread Suziphiles.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/cd5trials2.jpg)
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I love the tank on the RL's ....Bewdiful
but I also like the shape of the 185 tanks and the Stinger tanks ;D
I do agree after the RL i wouldnt mind a KT either just cause i can but for handling Id have to get another Ossa Explorer and it has a tank like a peanut
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Doc & Pokey,
You don't really want a KT250, You don't really want a KT250, You don't really want a KT250 ... An attempt at subliminal sugestion!
I am have enough problems chasing parts for my KT without more people wanting to do them up!
I will admit that I wouldn't mind an RL250, I rode a couple of examples back in the '70's and didn't think they were too bad, in my opinion (mug C grade solo ride who turned to sidecars), I also still want a TL250 to go with my 1976 TL125S.
CJ
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that subliminal shit don't work on me col ::)
truth is it probably won't happen
1. I'd have to find a more or less complete bike because of the reason you stated with parts availability.
2. If I did find a bike in that condition I doubt I'd have the coin to purchase it anyway.
3. If I bought another trials bike I'd like it to be a modern with all the bells and whistles ;D
hmmm..maybe that sublim stuff did work..thanks! :D
I piss myself everytime I watch this little vid..it reminds me so much of me but I only need 1 itty log to end up with exactly the same result. This is what trials is all about! :D
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWr-VTwUGuQ (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWr-VTwUGuQ)
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ha ha ha! that's Gold! Gold! Gold! Makes me want to rush out and... laze on a beach somewhere and think of England.
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http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Classic-vintage/auction-160130543.htm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Classic-vintage/auction-159224779.htm
Please form an orderly que to the right...... ;D
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hmmm..the $650 one has less than 1000klm's on it! :o Great prices but unfortunately in the wrong state :P :D
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It has slow steering and a comparatively long wheelbase but this matched with wide TS250 ratios in 3rd 4th and 5th make for a bike that is more like a super super light trailbike to ride. The grunt of several angry mountain goats down low, the weight of a 125 or less and they are stable at 60mph on the open fire trails. Something that scared the piss out of me on my brothers twitchy TY was anything over 60kph.
Doc have you done any trail riding on your RL on soft sand tracks yet?
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Firko whaddyamean your Maico trials bike looks ugly - I reckon it looks great and I'm just about to post that photo on the trials website to stir things up a bit.
You VMX guys may already know that Rob Wager has been trying to build a KTM twinshock trials bike for a while now and this may give him a bit of motivation.
What's the story on that Maico and apart from looking horn is it any good to ride?
David Lahey (twnishock trials nut)
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Heres a photo of a Beamish for reference
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No feetup, so far it's been everything except sandy conditions. The only 'quick' work I did was on a very hard dry loose fire trail and it was ok (for a trials bike) you need to watch that front end and shift the weight forward accordingly though. I imagine with it's rakish rake it could be a right pig in sand simply wanting to plow straight :-\ seriously thinking building a dirt tracker out of the second RL..nice and light, drop it down, a bit of glasswork for the tank seat assy and run a TM engine within RL cases..different ;)
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The reason why Beamish Suzukis are more common than the standard Jap RL250s is that there was huge buyer resistance to the standard ones and the same happened in the other big potential market (the USA). Suzuki Japan ended up giving many thousands of leftover RL250s (numbers produced were many thousand more than total worldwide sales) to the UK Suzuki Importer (Beamish) after they proved that they could make use of them (and improve the Suzuki image) by selling them in a form that people wanted to ride.
While aftermarket frames were made for the Jap bikes and some Spanish bikes, standard TYs and KTs and TL125s also sold very well while the standard RL250 did not. For the same reason that the standard RL250 did not sell well, Honda wisely did not market the TL250 in the UK.
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Doc theres a story on the web somewhere about a bloke who successfully converted his RL250 for MX use and it is aparrently pretty good. I'll have a look for it.
The bit about the soft sand is because when I was a little tacker I went on a trail ride on Straddie with my trail riding trials bike buddies. John Heidemann had an RL250 and the rest were TY175s. The first soft sand John got about 3 metres before tankslapping to a standstill with him on his ear. The smart arse other riders quickly told John how you need to get back over the rear and nail the throttle in soft sand and he was such a woos for falling off. Off we go again and the next soft bit he got 4 metres in this time before falling off. Meanwhile all the TYs were just cruising through the sand and wondering if we would ever get anywhere that day. Anyway that was enough for the most impatient smartarse (me) so I swapped bikes to "show" John how to ride soft sand and of course I got about as far as John had before going on my ear on the RL. No matter what we tried, it was a disaster in soft sand.
I'm a slow learner though and crashed John's RL once more a few months later doing trials stuff. From then on though I've been sworn off RL250s and have lived happily with every other trials bike I have ridden in the last 35 years. I have nothing but amazed admiration for people who ride them successfully in trials.
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Bloody UNZUD . hmmmI wonder if the girl is thinking about my next 3 years of birthdays. ::)
Was just checking the specs out for the RL on suzukicycles.org and noted it uses a Keihin PWK28 carb and not the regular Mik like on all the other 2T Suzis . I wonder why they chose that option
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Heres one especially for Doc
This was taken on day 1 of the Queensland Trials titles held last weekend up in the mountains near Toowoomba
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mmm..orange eh..different ;) thanks feetup :)
I'm by no means saying I can ride trials or the RL is a good trials bike. I kinda agree that it is not a good trials bike and I also think the RL185 project I had on the go a few years back or a '69 Peter Gaunt 118cc replica would be a better option. I have a good basis for a 'Gaunt Suzuki' but I just don't have time to piece it together yet :-\
I'd probably look something like this ::) and yes it is as fugly as a hat full of arseholes but it's non production and something I probably could replicate for little cost ;D
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6662/docgauntjc8.jpg)
Doc Gaunt
I think DT for the RL , the frame breaking would always worry the hell outa me if it were ridden MX :o
Pokey, the std Jap RL has a 28mm 'kuni, rumor has it, apparently the gun setup is a Mikuni 26mm or sleeve the original back, fit a flywheel weight, add a reed setup, sort the pushrod clutch, fix the frame then it may become rideable. Sounds like a lot of trouble just to go slower. :D
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I love the look of the RL and they were a great all round fun bike. Haven't ridden one since 1975, but as 15 year old kids we could pull seemingless endless wheelies on one of these things. Bought a TY a few years down the track but it just didnt have the fun factor of the RL.
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I really should read the entire page . the Keihin is fitted to the 350 RL.
thought it od being as the RL engine is pretty close to the savage not to have a Mikuni.
That 185 project aint as silly as it first may sound , pretty torquey lil engine the 185.
yeah i know its a sickness but i love em
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That home-made looking Suzuki by Peter Gaunt always reminds me of one of the bikes that gets ridden in pre-65 trials class in Brisbane by Robert Legatt. Its a pre-65 four stroke honda single road bike also with no front frame section and stripped down for competition. Someone who saw it for the first time thought it was a postie bike. Robert also built up a pre-65 Honda four stroke twin cylinder trials bike I think it was 175cc or thereabouts but was aparrently terrible to ride so he went back to the 125 single. I reckon a Jap two banger (pre-65 and preferably Suzuki cos I like Suzukis too) like you are talking about would leave Roberts Honda for dead in pre-65.
I don't think I have a photo of it to share (I'm not much of a Honda fan).
Doc have you thought about coming for a look at the goings-on at Brooweena this year. It's on 5/6 July and is an event for Classic and Twinshock trials bikes only. Run by Maryborough MCC. It's good camping and a very social atmosphere. Good spot to ride your RL around too without entering the event. Last year lots of people from the Historical MCC came along on their old road bilkes for a look too.
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Feetup, no I haven't been to any twinshock trials meetings though I would like to. The pre '65 Gaunt replica is a possibility as the bike I have is '65 (same as '64) but it'll have to wait till I have spare time before I can go any further with the idea ;)
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Hey feetup, here's a couple of shots from June 07; a Trials meet near Beaudesert Q.
Can you identify the bikes and Riders?
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This is an interesting thread considering I originally only put up an eBay Beamish and thought it'd die after one ot two hits. I love it when these things take on a life of their own. Speaking of Peter Gaunt (somwhere back there), Brian O' Connor, the Massachusetts Ducati guru I bought my Hindall Ducati motocrosser from has a rare Peter Gaunt framed 250 Ducati. It's a pretty slick thing I reckon
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/DucatiSebringTrials.jpg)
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Nice one Firko, I love Ducatis and I particularly like this one you've posted.
I'd love to ride that one to the shops on a regular basis - very sexy!
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Hey feetup, here's a couple of shots from June 07; a Trials meet near Beaudesert Q.
Can you identify the bikes and Riders?
Hey Wombat yes easy to do that - they are Classic class regulars Robert Eyres (Triumph) and Peter Sampson (James) and both of them are also sometime Twinshock class riders.
If you want to see lots more old trials bikes in action, come along to Brooweena. For the Kawasaki people, there will be at least two KT250s there.
Regards
David Lahey
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Sounds good - where's Brooweena in relation to Brisbane?
Here's some more shots from same meet.
On a personal note this was the first Trials meet I'd ever attended as a spectator.
I was dead set keen to find an old bike (it had to be old, something I could recognise as a Trials bike...) and scoured the 'for sale' ads for quite some time.
But then I went to a VMX and fell in love all over again...
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Jeez that is one nice deadcat Firko!
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Doc...Brians got a collection of "Ducks" (as he calls them) that are amazing. He's literally got a Ducati for nearly every AHRMA class from motocross to trials, dirt track and road racing. I'll sway from the thread just for a moment to show just a couple including this 450 powered Elsinore.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/ducati450Du-Da.jpg)
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wow that red one looks great what a collection he must have
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To look that good AND sound like a Ducati...Mmmmm, sensory overload.
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Sounds good - where's Brooweena in relation to Brisbane?
The big guy (Darryl Martin) on the yellow bike (SWM) from Toowoomba is a top class rider - many titles in twinshock trials including Aussie Champ.
Sidecar trials is sick and my favourite to watch.
Brooweena is about one stubby west of Maryborough (consequently some of the riders coming are also flat track racers).
It's an old sawmilling town and is on most road maps. The trial is just outside town -about 3 minutes North?
There are usually signs from the town centre. If you're serious I'll draw you a mudmap from town to the property.
David
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Not vintage sorry but check these out!
I maybe a little behind the latest greatest around (old) but I've just discovered another Yamaha I'd have grace the garage space at Suzuki Central..I'd not seen one before tonight and I'm quite taken with them after having a good looky ;)
(http://www.mcnews.com.au/NewBikeCatalogue/2005/yamaha/interest/tricker_pro_1024.jpg)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=99fDZdjYTpg (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=99fDZdjYTpg)
this little vid I just had to throw in for the shear fact this guy has unbelievable balance :o
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh3DhRQu70A&feature=related (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh3DhRQu70A&feature=related)
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Thats a nice little bike to ride to work Doc. prolly wouldnt hold many mowers though.
It does seem like a nice bike to ride with Very soft suspension and the specs say its a lot heavier than i would have figured and underpowered more than id thought fpr a modern ..94kg for the pro and only 19bhp and all down low as expected.
i do like the styling of the pro cept that orange ring on the engine case and those knobs on the axles look like used plastic cups . Last bike i remember yamaha made that was black and orange was the first TT and they were and still are a damn Nice looking bike
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yeah, would be nice little commuter scooter eh Pokey. I agree those orange bits have to go, looks like BMX crap and yes somewhat underpowered but no less power than I am used to playing with on the old beasts so there has to be some fun in there somewhere :D
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This is the first 'modern' trials bike I've actually liked!
My first impression was that it looked like a dirt version of the Ducati Monster.
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Bargain!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974-SUZUKI-RL-250-TRIALS-AHRMA-KT-SHERPA-TL-GAS-TDC-T_W0QQitemZ280239710088QQihZ018QQcategoryZ35576QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974-SUZUKI-RL-250-TRIALS-AHRMA-KT-SHERPA-TL-GAS-TDC-T_W0QQitemZ280239710088QQihZ018QQcategoryZ35576QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)