OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: Ktm181 on November 25, 2013, 10:21:16 am
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Hi gents, currently have another thread running re Suzuki gearbox bearing supply, has anyone bought and fitted a full set of gearbox bearings from Vintage Suzuki for '81-83 RM465/500 and what did you find as far as fully supply of ALL bearings and their fit????
The bearing i want is on the "driven shaft" at the kickstart end, this shaft has the countershaft sprocket on other end and the bearing type is "cylindrical roller" of an odd size - 20mm x 36mm x 12mm and is Suzuki part number 09264-20002. Bearing services the world over are telling me only 37mm od and 33 od in this width/type/id are available......
so Vintage Suzuki.......?
Kt.
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Maybe you can get a 20 x 36 x 10, it is a needle bearing so it wont have any end thrust on it so going 2mm thinner wont matter. You may even be able to get a roller bearing that will fit, obviously not as wide but will work.
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Hi Kt,
what (if any) identifying brand names or numbers are on the old bearing ?
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Maybe you can get a 20 x 36 x 10, it is a needle bearing so it wont have any end thrust on it so going 2mm thinner wont matter. You may even be able to get a roller bearing that will fit, obviously not as wide but will work.
hI Davey, according to about a dozen bearing guys so far nothing of any type in 36mm od, do you have a contact or part number to hand??????
Kt
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Hi Kt,
what (if any) identifying brand names or numbers are on the old bearing ?
G'day Geoff, no nothing at all to identify it! Its and odd one for sure.
Wayne.
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I cant believe that a needle or ball bearing with a 36mm OD does not exist, I will talk to my bearing guy for you.
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I cant believe that a needle or ball bearing with a 36mm OD does not exist, I will talk to my bearing guy for you.
Much appreciated Mr Crocket, i DONT either, it must be available some where,any help your guy can give is a bonus.
Wayne.
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Hi Wayne,
l spoke to Bendigo Bearings with the Suzuki part number and the dimensions of the bearing and got the same result, that its a genuine bearing only, l asked about a narrower one but its the 37mm that's the issue, its hard to imagine that if someone makes one in an aftermarket kit that its not available to the general public.
You may have to modify something.....
Cheers
Geoff
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Pretty simple , you make a mandrel to hold the 37 mm bearing and get it ground between centers to 36 mm .
Do you think you could take 20 thou (half a mm) off the outer race with no issues ?
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Do you think you could take 20 thou (half a mm) off the outer race with no issues ?
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couple of options Geoff, machine down 37mm one, do-able if i have to, or 20x333x16 make a ring for outer but only if can "find" the extra 4mm width, bit of a problem!
Hopefully a new original will pop up....OR Vintage Suzuki might shed some light on the problem....advertising they can sell you a FULL set but saying "apparently" that they cannot...emailed them again this morning, shall see if they reply....
wayne.
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Generally not an issue to grind down a bearing as they are through hardened material only problem is sealing any oil holes etc and the sealing of the end faces of an open bearing etc to stop grinding dust etc getting in
the cost is usually the mandrels and cleaning etc but not expensive
Bruce
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Paul Miller can be a bit hard and slow in the contact stakes ;) but we have always got there in the end, spoke to me mate on machineing of bearings but all ready covered here ;) MY interest here is RM500 in a sidecar :o
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6904 will be as close as you will get sorry.
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Why not look at opening up the hole for the bearing to 37mm allowing the use of the off the shelf bearing or making a sleeve for the 33mm od bearing? The cases should have enough meat to safely allow this
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Generally not an issue to grind down a bearing as they are through hardened material only problem is sealing any oil holes etc and the sealing of the end faces of an open bearing etc to stop grinding dust etc getting in
the cost is usually the mandrels and cleaning etc but not expensive
Bruce
Thanks Brucey. You seem like you might have done this, grinding or lathe? Any tips on keeping the swarf out of the bearing (I would have just given it the washing of its life after!) ANY ADVICE ?
regards,
wayne.
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6904 will be as close as you will get sorry.
thanks OldFart, as usual you seem a fount of knowledge! 6904 is closest I could find, was a bit concerned about being smaller in width and smaller ball type instead of a roller, I guess if only choice in the end it will have to do. There is another of 20 i.d 33 o.d. and 16mm width, would machining for extra width....can be done but looks a lot more complicated.
ANY THOUGHTS ON THE change to a ball and reduced width?????????????
Wayne.
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I just went to alpha sports suzuki 09264-20002 is the same for the RM500E yep and you guest it NLA, but changed the bearing on the sprocket side from 09262-22010 22x56x16 on the 1981 RM465 to 09262-28004 28x58x16 on the RM465Z to RM500E and to rub salt into the wound both are available for $28.00 :'(
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Rollers take more load than balls due to more contact area.
Often ball bearings are not as wide as a roller so sometimes you can fit 2 ball bearings side by side which will increase the load.
There will be different load capacities of different bearings for various reasons, your local bearing supplier should be able to tell you what that load is for what they are selling you.
Does the roller bearing have a thick steel outer ring?
If so then you will be able to grind it down okay, as it only presses into the case it doesn't need the same accuracy of a surface that has the ball/roller running on it.
Some roller bearings (needle) come with a thin outer casing and so won't be able to be ground down.
I have a grinder attachment for my lathe that I use to grind down some outer rings from tapered roller bearings, it looks a bit primitive but it does the job
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is there anything available that is only a bit smaller on the O.D that can be shimmed/sleeved up, just a thought ;)
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Hi Shelpi and GMC, thanks for the continued liasing over this issue.
I am a bit concerned about going to ball from roller, but if nothing else....
Size wise is limited by keeping to 12mm width or a little narrower which means 9mm, these two are available in 20mm i.d. in ball only AND ONLY 37o.d. or 42mm o.d., i am currently trying to find out what the difference is in load rating, so far only info on load is a "dynamic load rating " which is around 25% for the ball versus a roller, for example a roller in a slightly bigger dia is 30nm and ball is 7nm......if this is an indication of what the bearing will tolerate we might be in trouble....
GMC, any further knowledge on the loads? My bearing guy does not know the difference......
thanks men,
Wayne.
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I just ran it past my bearing guy and the best options were…
# 1
6904 ball bearing (as oldfart mentioned) this is 20 ID 37 OD & 9 long
The outer can be ground down to 36 and a 3mm wide ring added to make up the length to stop it 'floating', I believe this would be the best option.
I had a lot of numbers bounced around when checking it out but I’m pretty sure the static load of the bearing was around 2 tonne
#2
The other option was a needle roller that has a sleeve inside, this would make it 20 ID 32 OD & 12 long
A ring could be machined up to take it up to 36 OD however the static load of this option was about half of the ball bearing
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I just ran it past my bearing guy and the best options were…
6904 ball bearing (as oldfart mentioned) this is 20 ID 37 OD & 9 long
The outer can be ground down to 36 and a 3mm wide ring added to make up the length to stop it 'floating', I believe this would be the best option.
I had a lot of numbers bounced around when checking it out but I’m pretty sure the static load of the bearing was around 2 tonne
#2The other option was a needle roller that has a sleeve inside, this would make it 20 ID 32 OD & 12 longA ring could be machined up to take it up to 36 OD however the static load of this option was about half of the ball bearing
Thanks GMC, looks like option 1 would be best and simplest, i did come up with one that is 42mm od but 12mm width, would need the case modified but would negate use of the original if it ever comes up again, 6904 it will be then.
thanks men, always appreciate teh help on here!
Wayne.
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Generally not an issue to grind down a bearing as they are through hardened material only problem is sealing any oil holes etc and the sealing of the end faces of an open bearing etc to stop grinding dust etc getting in
the cost is usually the mandrels and cleaning etc but not expensive
Bruce
Thanks Brucey. You seem like you might have done this, grinding or lathe? Any tips on keeping the swarf out of the bearing (I would have just given it the washing of its life after!) ANY ADVICE ?
regards,
wayne.
Wayne PM me off list for my contact details and i will get my Grinder mate to get here done for you. be quick please as i leave for europe for 5 weeks holiday in 10 days
Bruce
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Why not look at opening up the hole for the bearing to 37mm allowing the use of the off the shelf bearing or making a sleeve for the 33mm od bearing? The cases should have enough meat to safely allow this
Hi Tony,
you had the same thought as me, but i am going to try the modifying the bearing first, i have advice that this has been done manytimes before and bearing would cope with the load quite ok. If i was to modify the case i'd try to go 42o.d., would be same bearing on opposite side of clutch shaft then AND also standard off-the-shelf bearing.
regards,
wayne.
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Did you try this and did it work ? Wanting to do a rebuild on mine and trying to source all parts before I tear it down
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pm suzuki311...he is usually all over suzook issues
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Done , thanks ;)