OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Matador107 on November 11, 2013, 01:09:43 am
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Three classes, therefore 9 top three placings .Seven out of the nine won by Spanish riders, 77.777 per cent saturation . It's going to be a while before any one knocks these blokes over.
Lorenzo , a tough tenacious rider never gives in and Marquez beginning his reign.
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Spainish Federation deserves a big pat on the back for showing how to put a domestic series as a high a level as GP's. Whats easy to overlook is how many Spainish engineers work behind the scenes as well. Any young rider that wants a crack at GP's is racing in the Buckler CEV championship, which just makes it even stronger.
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i recall speaking to matty kuhne
multiple junior aus dirt track champ
at north bris circa 2008
he did the 125 spanish cup
and said unless your spanish/italian
your chances are very slim
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It helps to be rich or have rich backers
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Would also help to be an ex Honda DUDE, But at the end of the day the kid has to be able to ride!
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i recall speaking to matty kuhne
multiple junior aus dirt track champ
at north bris circa 2008
he did the 125 spanish cup
and said unless your spanish/italian
your chances are very slim
Nonsense plenty have kicked goals like Jack Miller, I've said it a 100 times but when do you hear a Spanish or Italian rider that cannot give a interview in English? Have not heard many Aussies give interviews in Spanish and Italian one after the other. Takagami-san is Japanese but speaks English with a Spanish accent. So it can be done.
An old rule of business in Europe is "If your selling you need to speak the language if your buying you can just nod and point"
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i think for 20 years the Spanish controlled Dorna got tired of watching a never ending line of smart arsed American and Australian riders with no money dominate ' their ' 500cc class, so they came up with a new class with a new set of rules that any rider could win, provided he was on the right bike. Then it didn't matter how good the Yank or Aussie was, there would always be half a dozen cashed up Spainish and Italians buying the now limited supply of factory rides.... unless the riders can bring millions of EURO's they wouldn't get a chance to ride the factory bikes.
As for the fans, well the Spanish and Italian fans will love it and as for the rest, they might never notice how dull and boring GP's have become so long as the Dorna paid TV comentators said it was the greatest racing ever.
Sorry but give me uncontrollable 2 strokes which only GODS can ride, all these motogp classes are shitzen-houzen.... reminds me of F1 about 5years ago
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Sorry but give me uncontrollable 2 strokes which only GODS can ride, all these motogp classes are shitzen-houzen.... reminds me of F1 about 5years ago
Exactly what Zakk said. MotoGP is a Yawnfest to me.....and Lozza's right about the language barrier. I bet Wayne Gardner's lads speak fluent Spanish and Italian.
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Forget the language barrier,forget the money side of it,it takes talent.If you've got that,the rest falls into place.Maybe the "tall poppy syndrome"or a bit of veiled racism coming out.
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True teams will are always on the lookout for lightning in a bottle. Spain always has had talented riders it's only recently have we seen that emerge then dominate the premier class. In the good old days of 80cc class it was a Italian/Spanish fest in both riders and manufacturers.
I doubt Wayne's kids speak fluent Spainish but half a dozen cliches you can confidently say to camera after good performance makes a big difference.
Spain is stumping up the cash as well, there have only been 2 companies tha have sponsored Aussies at GP level, Yellow Pages with Mark Webber and Bondy's Swan Larger dishwater with Wayne Gardner, compared to say the $10million a year Repsol has tipped in over the last 20 years. Much smaller companies are happy to sponsor motocycle racing as well. A contact ran a team that was sponsored by a Spanish "cake company' as he described it, so a product like Wagon Wheels were willing to be naming rights sponsor a 125GP team.
MotoGP gets about 5mins of coverage on Spanish national TV each monday, just behind the soccer which seems to get about 15-20mins. Probably a large slice of the print media as well.
With the tap of unlimited cash from gasper money gone, which forces teams to be very conservative on their rider choices, Aussies will have to arrive in Europe with a truckload of talent AND money rather then just talent.
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Geez there's some hard markers on here, I won't mention how good the Spanish are in trials riding then. They are here next year as well in Victoria,early April and I'll be there.
As far as Moto Gp, well next year 6 of us are off to the IOM and follow up with a dose of Moto Gp in Barcelona for good measure.
Some may say boring so I've got that covered too with a scheduled visit to the Sammy Miller museum in the UK and ROMEROS BROTHERS BULTACO shop in Barcelona.
In my view there are motorcycles and there are Bully's, youvé got to have a passion for something.
VIVA
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Geez there's some hard markers on here, I won't mention how good the Spanish are in trials riding then. They are here next year as well in Victoria,early April and I'll be there.
I'll ignore the rest of your clearly biased post ( :) Ilove Spanish bikes and if you doubt me check in the Spanish forum), but lets talk about trials for bit shall we?
The Spanish federation has become, over the last 30 years or so, recipient to some very "comfortable" deals and they have used this to very good effect and all the better for 'em. In trials, as manufacturers, they have dominated the sport for nigh on 50 years. In the last ten they have bought their influence to bear so that every EVERY round of the WTC resembles a Spanish domestic championship round. Big steps, loads of grip. It's all become so effing predictable and if you don't conform to the formula you don't get a round. Well done the Spanish. What happened to snotty muddy sections?
In the indoor championship a few years ago 3 of the six rounds were held in Spain and Andorra. They have bought the sport. They killed the championship for the rest of the world. Nobody outside Spain (and not many inside Spain) gives a rats arse for that kind of trial. Most of us aspire to conquering a nice snotty stream. But whats happening at WTC level has become a sport that few of us recognise. A part of the sport certainly. But not THE sport. Then the Spanish have the temerity to complain that they're not selling enough bikes? Well the gall of it all!
I'm not the only person in trials that thinks this way. A certain ex World Champ shares my POV and, why, pray why is modern trials dying in Spain? A country where twinshock entries exceed modern? Why can't a top Spanish WTC rider make it into the top 5 of the SSDT and gets thrashed by UK guys who can't even score points in WTC round?
So do you still think they're so good at trials then? I reckon F.X. would be renting his clothes.
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I agree, my way or the highway.
Now what about Japan ?
How have they become subservient to the Spanish ?
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I agree, my way or the highway.
Now what about Japan ?
How have they become subservient to the Spanish ?
Spanish company runs the championship so the Japanese have to play by their rules or not play at all, now that superbikes is run by the same outfit there is no alternate for them
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They killed the championship for the rest of the world. Nobody outside Spain (and not many inside Spain) gives a rats arse for that kind of trial. Most of us aspire to conquering a nice snotty stream. But whats happening at WTC level has become a sport that few of us recognise. A part of the sport certainly. But not THE sport
That's pretty much what's happened to motocross over the last couple of decades, the Americans changed the way tracks were designed with the gradual 'supercrossing" of motocross and the virtual disappearance of true natural terrain tracks and Giuseppe Luongo and Youthstream have dumbed down the World Motocross Championships so thoroughly that nobody outside of Spain/Portugal/Italy really gives a shit any more. Whenever old blokes like me blab on about how great Grand Prix road racing and motocross (and trials) once were, we get the old "living in the past" eyes rolling brush off from Gen X'ers that weren't even born during the sports boom periods. All three divisions might now look colourful with their energy drink logos everywhere but the sport(s) have faded to a low I never thought I'd see. When the American indoor and outdoor motocross series' have more importance on the world stage than the world championship something is very, very wrong.
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Just wondering when the last Japanese trials bike was on the showroom besides the HRC/Montesa that is? Scorpa, Gas Gas, Beta and probably a few other Spanish brands contined to make trials bikes and shock horror the division of motorcycle sport became popular with local riders as world champions. Spanish riders on Spanish bikes popular and well supported in Spain where is the logic ;)
AMA championship indoor and outdoor continues to be the place to be for mx riders, probably due to the USA being the major market for dirt bikes, Japanese manufacturers place winning those as No1 priority
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Just wondering when the last Japanese trials bike was on the showroom besides the HRC/Montesa that is?
Lozza, that would have been the Yamaha TYZ. So about 10/15 years ago.
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Reports surfacing that Husqvarna will be rebadging KTM 250's in Moto3
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When the American indoor and outdoor motocross series' have more importance on the world stage than the world championship something is very, very wrong.
That my friend is it in a nutshell. A simple answer is $$$$$$$$$$$$. When the current World Champions started to head Stateside there were numerous comments about how they wanted to race the best and to do that they had to go to America. That was total BS - at least 2 of them have admitted to me when interviewing them that it was all about the Benjamins. When Dorna took over the MX GPs they totally destroyed the prestige of the GPs and made most of the riders paupers. Loungo has helped improve some of the things around the GPs and possibly stopped them from dying completely, but the riders as a whole are even worse off.
There is a lot more to it than just that though and some of it goes right back to the origins of Supercross. Originally it was a 2 moto format and was changed to a Single Final format at the request of TV executives. I argued discussed this quite a bit with Mike Goodwin and several others using a very basic "You Have Got To Be Shitting Me?" trend - if the ignoramuses can follow Ice Hockey or Basketball that have quarters and full of Time-Outs, or god forbid American Football which is basically TV advertisements interspersed with stoppages on the footy field they sure as hell should be able to understand Moto .... especially when the winner is handed a trophy. :o Of course, the real reason was to fit the racing around adverts - but hey, what do the real fans wishes need to be taken into account when the ad execs are on a roll.
The other thing about the scene Stateside is that the Shamateur scene has sucked the lifeblood out of the system. FFS, there are 6 year olds on 'Factory' contracts and shite like that. Anyone that qualifies for Lorettas seems to expect full backing from anyone and everyone. Shit, they haven't even started paying their dues yet and want everything on a silver platter.
Fixes?
Some say it is already past fixing, but I am of the feeling that things can be turned around.
Start with classes. Kick to touch all this MX1/2/3 SX1/2/3 crap and go back to capacity classes.
125cc / 250cc / 500cc - no advantage for 4 strokes ... the class is the class. All the 450s will be in the 500cc class so that will become the Premiere class. Start off on the 125 smokers, move to the 250 chokers and then to the big bangers. If you have big enough nuts you might ride a 500cc smoker if you can find a manufacturer to build one, but I am thinking it will be a 300-360 or something similar.
That is a start - will allow the small Euro guys to build limited run bikes and race the GPs. Should see a lot of exotic and very reliable smokers come out of the woodwork.
Next the way the GPs are promoted and administered needs to be scrapped and new management put in place. Luongo and company are basically feathering their own nests at the expense of the sport. Then the tracks and the race formats need sorting out. After that we might have a good chance of having our sport prosper once again.