OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: oldfart on November 07, 2013, 06:21:20 pm
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Shelf wear my arse ....... water damage would be more appropriate.
This sort of stuff gets under my skin, when they blatantly wrongly describe an item.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NOS-Suzuki-OEM-Piston-0-25mm-PE250-RM250-RS250-12110-40601-/121185110962?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c37320bb2
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That is useless, OK if it was some Works thing then maybe could be salvaged somehow.
I think i have one for sale... maybe kit...
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I have a shelf in my workshop that I've managed to headbutt more often than I really should've.
Unless it's an item like a tank or side panel that has been moved around over the years, yes, it's a crap description.
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Walter .... put your glasses on old mate and look at pic 4. ::)
There is no way I would put that piece of crud in any of my bikes.
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Don'r bid - easy!
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This piston looked the same. This is how it looks after Greg gave it the hydroblast treatment.
Would you put it in a motor? I would like to know because these are rare.
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/IMG_0665.jpg)
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/IMG_0669.jpg)
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Whats it for NSR
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You make your choice and you try your luck.
I spent a lot of my youth and early adulthood putting together motors with highly questionable parts - sometimes it worked well, sometimes it just worked, sometimes it didn't work at all... But it did give me a pretty solid understanding of what really matters, compared to what makes people feel good.
If I owned NSR's piston, I'd prefer not to use it - but if it is hard to get a better one, then I'd fit it and wouldn't have a moment's worry about it causing me any problems.
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Who replaces small end bearing every top end rebuild?
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Whats it for NSR
It's a 175 SWM Rotax piston. So a it is pretty tough piece, with a thick single ring. The 175 pistons are becoming harder to get.
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Noel .... ring landings look sus along with skirt area . I would say no don't use it.
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I'm a self confessed tin arse but even still I would not use either piston pictured above. Small end bearings and pin I replace whenever I replace the rings. Probably not necessary but it's cheap insurance and peace of mind. In 35 odd years have 'never' had a top end detonate ;)
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This is it with the ring on it. The ring grove is my concern. Although with the ring on it does not look to bad. I will still be trying to buy a better one.
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/IMG_0673.jpg)
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/IMG_0671.jpg)
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The ring is still properly supported over the vast majority of its circumference.
What do you expect to be the problem?
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If it fails it could make the whole thing FUBAR...
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Noel I've run with worse pistons and not had a problem in bikes ranging from RS125 that scream their heads off up to big bore 2T singles.
Of course, none of those were a high performance thoroughbred like your SWM :)
Honestly if I couldn't find another one, I'd run that for sure.
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The ring is still properly supported over the vast majority of its circumference.
What do you expect to be the problem?
Just saying, I don't see the groves in the top and sides a problem, only if the ring is supported.
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I have seen a lot of pistons that have suffered the scourge of detonation, most a hell of a lot worse than that before terminal failure.
Despite their fugliness, most of them would have kept going except that the parting alloys had jammed ring lands or
deposited down the sides to produce seizure.
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This is it with the ring on it. The ring grove is my concern. Although with the ring on it does not look to bad. I will still be trying to buy a better one.
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/IMG_0673.jpg)
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/IMG_0671.jpg)
Is it a Elko or Asso Werke piston? It looks like a second. Have you tried Tony Murphy in the US for pistons?
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Why risk destroying a barrel and what ever else it may take in it's way, it's OK for Simo to say he's used worse than that but he's talking about engines you can GET parts for, if I was you, take the motor out (if it's not already) and take it to George McKenzie, there will be a piston that fits it, he's a genius when it comes to oddball engines....quite a few of his engines won at the Nats on the weekend (same as my fuel tanks ;D....speaking of which I have an ugly SWM one to do ATM). PM me or give me a ring. Shit, he might even give it some power so you stop looking at my arse!! ;D....there will be a cost though...at a certain event. ;)
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This is it with the ring on it. The ring grove is my concern. Although with the ring on it does not look to bad. I will still be trying to buy a better one.
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/IMG_0673.jpg)
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/IMG_0671.jpg)
Lozza I think some were hoping you might consult your crystal ball or use your X-ray vision on that piston.
If your driving past call in I have dug a few treasures out
Is it a Elko or Asso Werke piston? It looks like a second. Have you tried Tony Murphy in the US for pistons?
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Why risk destroying a barrel and what ever else it may take in it's way, it's OK for Simo to say he's used worse than that but he's talking about engines you can GET parts for, .. blah blah blah :)
Did you miss the bit where I said "Honestly if I couldn't find another one, I'd run that for sure." ?? Of course if you can find a better one then you would run that .. that's a no brainer John ;) ;D
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If you still have your original piston, there are people around that can make pistons. They more than likely won't be forged but when in need......
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I've probably told this story before, but:
When we were kids, a mate "scored" two and a half late 70s YZ80s that were literally basket cases - the engines were stripped down to the last nut and bolt, and came in a couple of old wicker laundry baskets.
While messing around with his dad's engraver one day, he picked out the crappiest looking piston, and engraved "Rodney" on the crown and both front & rear skirts.
Eventually, when he got around to putting it all together, he discovered that the "Rodney piston" was the one that matched the only good crank... So in it went, with clearances measured in millimetres rather than thou...
That motor ran like a champ for many long, hard months.
It finally Went Boom a few weeks after he sold it. The new owners were suitably unimpressed to discover the previous owner's name deeply engraved all over the piston, but the failure was caused by a lack of 2T oil, and nothing to do with the 'damage' to the piston.
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I doubt if it would sieze with all those oil holding pock marks on the skirt. Ring lands would warrant close inspection, fit a wider ring??
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hey noel
why dont you investigate the possability of ceramic coating the top of the piston. i think it may be a viable proposition.
i would not be too concerned about the erossion on the side skirts.
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Noel ..... It's not worth the risk Bud. As Joan has explained there are other options with pistons that can be used surely.
If I opened up a motor and it had a piston looking like that ( even though it was running fine ) I would replace it no questions asked ...... Yes it could run fine, but there will always be that doubt factor ;)
I'm with Doc piston pin and bearing are replaced same time as rings.
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I was thinking HPC coating but how much damage is more than skin deep.
Not sure I would use it except if there was nothing else.
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yep, get it ceramic coated 1st ;)
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Corrosion works inward from the surface - the damage to this piston is on its surface.
I'm not sure what people think is going to be the problem?
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Corrosion works inward from the surface - the damage to this piston is on its surface.
I'm not sure what people think is going to be the problem?
The problem is obvious..... Apart from the piston being CRAP and having dodgey looking ring lands, You have to ask how far the corrosion has gone ::) Add Fuel, a big spark and BOOOM, there goes the answer!
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It is a nos SWM, Elko piston.
This is a 2nd OS piston I will first be trying to find replacement for the 1st OS thats in the bike now. When the time comes, If I can't find another, I will look at getting it coated.
Thanks
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You can get a piston made from forged billet for around $300. A mate of mine who modifies just about everything with a combustion chamber gets his pistons made and has never had a problem. If you need a contact number, let me know.
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You can get a piston made from forged billet for around $300. A mate of mine who modifies just about everything with a combustion chamber gets his pistons made and has never had a problem. If you need a contact number, let me know.
I would like the details if thats ok ;)
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You can get a piston made from forged billet for around $300. A mate of mine who modifies just about everything with a combustion chamber gets his pistons made and has never had a problem. If you need a contact number, let me know.
I would like the details if thats ok ;)
Try these guys Shelpi, they are right next door tomy mates factory and make pistons for just about every single combustion engine known to man:
http://www.specialpistonservices.com/
Cheers
Simo
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You can get a piston made from forged billet for around $300. A mate of mine who modifies just about everything with a combustion chamber gets his pistons made and has never had a problem. If you need a contact number, let me know.
I would like the details if thats ok ;)
Try these guys Shelpi, they are right next door tomy mates factory and make pistons for just about every single combustion engine known to man:
http://www.specialpistonservices.com/
Cheers
Simo
thanks Simo ;) do they make 1 stroke pistons :o
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thanks Simo ;) do they make 1 stroke pistons :o
Haha cunny funt ;D
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thanks Simo ;) do they make 1 stroke pistons :o
Haha cunny funt ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D cheers
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I'd get it x-rayed.
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/IMG_0665.jpg)
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Try these guys Shelpi, they are right next door tomy mates factory and make pistons for just about every single combustion engine known to man:
http://www.specialpistonservices.com/
Don't foreget to tell 'em how hard you rev it tho....... ;D :P :o
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(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f128/annaandnathan/Bikestuff/IMG_1424_zps39b4875a.jpg)
The photo doesn't show it clearly, but the piston that's front and centre has some 'lovely' marks from some vice jaws. It has also been dropped, more than once. It was in my YZ125D when I first bought it - it was rattly as hell, and the lack of compression meant that the only way to make the bike go was to rev the hell out of it. Went alright once you gave it a big rev...
Bultaco Macca's ribbing finally convinced me to give it a freshen up after a couple of meetings, but it never blew up.
The piston on the left was from my DT175 racer. The bodgy air cleaner fell off during practice at Canberra. I didn't realise that this had happened until it stopped... After removing the spark plug, I discovered a small oblong shaped rock stuck between the spark plug electrodes. Put a new plug in (thanks Den!) and it went fine. Did three more meetings like that, including one at Clarence where the thing was pinned in top gear, trying (dismally) to clear the big table-top in the middle. Then I pulled it down to discover that my little oblong rock didn't begin life as an oblong - my poor little DT175 top end had made it into one...
The piston on the right of the photo came from my MX250. The "sponsored rider" (we'll call him Marty to protect the innocent - and incriminate the guilty) forgot the golden rule of "change up when the power flattens off" and tried to find more power by revving it harder... The poor old DT piston and its poor old dykes ring didn't like 20,000rpm and the top ring exploded. This one actually stopped - but only because the bits of broken ring ended up in the main bearings... There was no piston drama.
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f128/annaandnathan/Bikestuff/IMG_1423_zpsfb265590.jpg)
I managed to not get a decent photo of it, but the 4th piston is a DT175 piston with the holes very roughly enlarged to something like IT175 spec. It came in an IT175 I bought - I can't vouch for how many hours its done, but it clearly isn't new. Again, no sign of dramas because of the shitty piston.
Maybe the moral of this story is that Yamahas are built better than Rotaxes, but I doubt it. I think the real moral is that I shouldn't let Marty ride my bike... The secondary moral is that some corrosion on the surface of a piston isn't going to worry it.
A good mate had a motor built for his rally car (Datto 180B). Proper motor it is too - it makes about 20kW at the wheels more than anyone thought was possible a few years ago. The engine builder is a talented dude who has a reputation for being a bit rough - this roughness resulted in my mate's new motor killing a head gasket before it had been run in.
My mate pulled the head off, to discover that one piston had multiple (incorrect) valve reliefs cut in it. He was almost hysterical, but was eventually convinced to put the bloody thing back together with the 'bodgy' piston. It made the power it was supposed to, and has given absolutely no grief to date.
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Nathan ....you are a cruel cruel man ..... with regards to LHS side piston, you didn't pull the head off to see what was going after the ride ::)
The combustion area would have looked similar.... also you should of noticed it lacking way in power at the least.
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2nd ring was happily holding compression - power loss was minimal.
Yes, the head was just as awful. I knew it wasn't right, but I had about 400 DT175 motors at the time (and no time to f$%k with bikes) so it made more sense to keep running it.
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Hey Nathan, I used my Monaro the other night to take a friends daughter to her graduation in the city, it was a long que to drop them off at the door and there was a lot of cool old cars...the mum and dad cars where suppose to park up and let the by now all overheating dinosours drop the kids at the door...low and behold what goes past the other way after dropping some poor embarrassed kid off...a farken Volvo.....I thought of you straight away and thought...gee that's a long way to come....Yass to Brisbane.....you wouldn't do that to your daughter would you?....in amonst GT Falcons, Mustangs, Camaro's, all sorts of convertables....even James Bond was there with a Aston Martin. ;D
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Peter Brock and Jim Richards disagree with you.
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I don't think they would take there (have taken) there kids to a formal in a ice Vovo....your a cruel man just like oldfart said. ;D
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Brock is one record saying that his Volvo 850 was the car that really impressed him.
Richards is on record saying that the Volvo S40 was the best race car he'd ever driven.
My five year old son is on record saying that my shitbox Mazda RX-2 rally car is "so cool" after I spun it twice in the back yard.
My three year old daughter is on record saying that she wants to get out of the exact same RX-2...
Both children are on record saying "stop driving like mummy" when I've given my S40 T4 a bootful.
Volvo for life.
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I've had three distinctly different Volvos a fifties PV444 given to me by my cocaine dealing land lady, a 122 wagon with a 142 motor given to me by a friend when nobody would accept it as a trade in and a 144 wagon we bought almost new. I enjoyed them for the honest, reliable and very basic transport that they were but I've moved on to cars with a tad more soul.
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I've moved on to cars with a tad more soul.
No soul?
(http://www.p1800specialist.com/resources/aa_1962_volvo_p1800_the_saint.jpg)
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LOL .. I'm astounded by exactly how far you knuckle heads will go to:
A) Get as far off topic as you can; and
B) Sledge the shit out of each other
;D ;D
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We aim to please ;)
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Do you/have you owned a Volvo Simo?..... ;D
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Do you/have you owned a Volvo Simo?..... ;D
No, never had the pleasure :) Now so get back on the original topic will ya :)
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Now so get back on the original topic will ya :)
I'd have thought we were on topic ;D.
Tim, as nice as the P1800 looks and even considering its Simon Templar connection, it'd have to be one of the more disappointing cars I've driven....Britt Ekland looks with 115 hp engine doesn't make a sports car. Sports cars need sports engines.
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Context changes, Firko... I can see why a new 140 in the early 70s could have been considered to be lacking in soul, but drive one now and you'll probably reassess.
They also have a strong sporting character and surprising chassis balance, which is initially hidden by the soft springs and bicycle tyres - it's sort of like the conservative aunty who turns into a party animal after a couple of drinks...
Now that I think about it, Davey, I went to my formal in a Camira... ;D
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Coulda been worse....coulda been at Camira!!
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I started the thread ...... if they want to " take the piss" let it happen hear and save the other threads from this banter blah blah
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I started the thread ...... if they want to " take the piss" let it happen hear and save the other threads from this banter blah blah
;D ;D
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You can get a piston made from forged billet for around $300. A mate of mine who modifies just about everything with a combustion chamber gets his pistons made and has never had a problem. If you need a contact number, let me know.
I would like the details if thats ok ;)
I'll get onto my mate who has the details and put them up.I don't think they would take there (have taken) there kids to a formal in a ice Vovo....your a cruel man just like oldfart said. ;D