OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: JohnnyO on August 17, 2013, 07:03:15 pm
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Looking at a Euro bike for pre 78 open, wondering if the 370 Bully is up to scratch or are the choices between 440 Maico, 390 Husky and 400 KTM.
How many here raced that era?
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I race pre 78 but I know nothing of Bultaco's. If your interested I have a nice 77 Husky. I guess if you plan on being in the top five you do it easier on the bikes you mentioned or also Montesa VB 360.
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I race pre 78 but I know nothing of Bultaco's. If your interested I have a nice 77 Husky. I guess if you plan on being in the top five you do it easier on the bikes you mentioned or also Montesa VB 360.
I'm already in the top 5 on a RM370 but like the Euro stuff..
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The flood brothers Mr McHanic lives here in Bendigo, can he tune a Bultaco?....Amazing!
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I suspect that you have already answered your own question,
Maico and KTM are great bikes for someone else to own,
You either like the Husky or you don,t
The Bully needs Japanese wheels to get brakes,
And a correctly set up clutch,
The Monty would be my choice it ticks all the boxes,
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he taught me how to set up the clutches.
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John,
I'm sure the 370 Bully could be made into a pretty competitive pre 78. I love Bully's but can never remember anyone winning at national level on a Mk10. For my choice it would be a 77 400 Maico or a 77 360 Monty. I had a new MC400 in 77 (still got it somewhere ;D) and thought it was an easy bike to race fast. Great handling/steering and a really nice tractable engine. Brakes weren't great but were easily fixed. It was a bit on the heavy side but you could never have guessed while riding it. The VB is a sweet bike as well and Ronnie Dinsdale did very well on them in 77. I had a 78 250 VB with a 360 head, barrel, pipe and carb that combined with the 5 speed 250 box made it a real weapon. I assume you could also do that with a 77 VB. (just a thought)
If I remember correctly in the 77 Grand National at Christmas Hills there were about 7 400/440 Maico's in the top 10 placing's including Jack Pengelly who won it.
Stan.
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I've ridden the Maico and Husky and was very impressed but never ridden any of the others. I'd forgotten about the Monty and didn't think they were as good but I remember Dinsdale going real good at the 77 Vic round of MR MX. I guess I need a ride on a Monty to compare..
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2011 Crystal Brook Classic Nationals
Two thirds on a Bultaco~pre75 solo 250,pre75 40-49 age,4th in pre75 250 solo (?)
Best lap time 2.16.8
Honda and Maico placed in front
Not sure what make the Bultaco was,someone else from WA maybe able to confirm bike.
Whatever Jody Smith was on, peddled well :)
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Check-out guy coopers (team bull)results and footage at unadilla mx rewind over the last couple of years,pretty sure hes on a mk 10 370 in black/white el bandido colour's -blitzed the class aparently :D there a bit in the "competition section" of forum
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Sorry but I'm not going by vintage race results, thats more rider than anything. Guy Cooper would win on a postie bike!
It's the stuff from back in the day that interests me when the bikes were new and everyone was looking for that edge..
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go the Husky, they are a simple bike to work on and perform well, the 390's were a nice easy motor to ride and there is a wealth of stuff for them. check café husky for lots of info and data.
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go the Husky, they are a simple bike to work on and perform well, the 390's were a nice easy motor to ride and there is a wealth of stuff for them. check café husky for lots of info and data.
Cool thanks
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BITD results - 78/79 250 & 500 champion Pelle Granquist on huskies ,their great to ride ride similar to the bully and just as easy to live with - ps 77' basically the same bike
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I could be convinced to sell this one
(http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q747/Slakewell1/husky01_zps4ed396c6.jpg)
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The AW Maico 400 for my pick John. I've owned both 400 and 440 reckon the 400 is a better bike overall in as delivered trim but if the 440's crank was balanced and the balance factor changed, the 440's legendary and annoying vibration would be minimalized and there wouldn't be an open class pre 78 bike that'd come near it. However, you've been around long enough to know that already haven't you John? ;)
below: my old AW 400 sold to another forum member but sadly destroyed in a fire a few years ago.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/firkoAW_zpsd4b84276.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/firkoAW_zpsd4b84276.jpg.html)
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Hey John, I've had all the Huskies & by far the 390 engine is my personal favorite. They run a big heavy external flywheel which makes them super smooth & strong but damn fast as well. Many say Husqvarna's don't turn but they must suit my style as I haven't found that to be the case. I do fit upright bar mounts rather than the standard layback items which give more room & help them turn. There's nothing on them that shouldn't be, my mechanic says they are "agricultural" which is part of the appeal for me. The black/gold 390 colors always turn heads as well. Maico 400 engine is a nice thing too, although I don't find Maico's quite as easy to live with as Huskies.
K
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Yes I've been around a while now Firko but I really only ride pre 78 once a year so I haven't spent much time with these era bikes, Evo is my class of choice. I do like the AW Maicos but also have a soft spot for Husky's and something about the Spanish bikes appeals to me..
Bloody nice Husky there Slake, is that one that Horwood rode at Wyaralong nats last year?
I'm hearing you bigk, it's a tough choice..
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something about the Spanish bikes appeals to me..
Perhaps a Montesa 414 like my dear old chum Ross Nimmo used to spruik would be a good thing. A VB360 might do the job too.
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Recently rode a 78' 390 cr husky with mossbarger intake and asch pipe (aka pro-circuit-set-up ?) great mid-topend ;)
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Bloody nice Husky there Slake, is that one that Horwood rode at Wyaralong nats last year
Yes that's the bike, Bike has been setup a little better now but still needs a little bit more love to get it perfect. It's the one in the fleet I have less attachment too so I would sell her. Not many real 77 CR's around in Aus. I know where there is a KTM 400 and that is my preferred pre 78 open mount so the sale would fund that. If I dont sell her I will fix a few small things that bug me and fit the bigger reed block and maybe a bit more flywheel as right now she is more pro power.
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something about the Spanish bikes appeals to me..
Perhaps a Montesa 414 like my dear old chum Ross Nimmo used to spruik would be a good thing. A VB360 might do the job too.
Unfortunately the VE414 is a '79 model and an EVO bike. The '77 or '78 VB360 are both Pre78 legal and are very competitive in the class.
Any of the bikes listed are competitive in the right hands. As far as how they performed in 1977. I would say that the Maico would be top of the tree but they always seemed to have reliability problems back then unless very well set up and they were expensive in Australia. I think the Bully was past their best by then but a beautiful bike that could be made to be competitive. The VB360 was one of the best Montesa Cappra models built when compared to its peers of the day but it was difficult to get shocks that could stand up to the extreme mounting position (this is not a problem now) in 1977. The Husky was also a great bike but 1977 was not a stand out model from memory. The KTM would also be an excellent choice but cannot ever remember seeing one in 1977 but that was more to do with price and actually finding one to buy on the east coast.
The problem with the 1977 Maico, Husky and Montesa is that they are nobbled by the Pre78 rules, all three require >25mm of suspension travel taken out of their suspension travel front and back which was one of their biggest advantages in 1977.
I have a VB360 now and also had one in ‘77 but would love a Maico. I would think that Maico has the best support of parts these days.
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Any of the bikes listed are competitive in the right hands.
That's the key statement in these 'tell me which bike to buy' threads, I reckon. ;)
Especially with vintage stuff, if you're good enough, you can win on any of those bikes.
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johnny wants something different and a bulty is just that. I don't think he is going for an outright win, just enjoying a different make.
otherwise if you are being competitive, you get the bestest winningist bike at the time ;D then its your riding that's up for questions :o
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Looking at a Euro bike for pre 78 open, wondering if the 370 Bully is up to scratch or are the choices between 440 Maico, 390 Husky and 400 KTM.
How many here raced that era?
John the question seems to be if the Bully is 'up to scatch' compared to other bikes not was it different. If something different is the criteria then The KTM wins hands down. Rare, exoctic and hardly ever seen in the day with an excellent reputation.
I love the Bully 370 as it just looks great although I think it was behind the other bikes JohnnyO listed and in '77 it was outpaced by most of it's peers. You are absolutely right in that in Classic racing the rider makes all the difference and as he said he is top 5 on an RM370.
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Well there is always the CCM ;) Maybe one of Firko's odd frame deals as a few rareish 9 inch travel ones come up now and then and stay green with 76 KX 400 engine and tank?
IMO I be happy to see the later model bullys in pre 78 along with the A4 KX ;D And no Nathan stay out.
I like to have age classes next Nats for pre 78
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Can't beat the mean ass look of the cr 390 husky I considered buying one for a pre78 ride but couldn't go past the ultimate pre 78 weapon yz400 d I bought the other day ;D
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If it helps I rode a friends 77 370 Bul about 06. Know it had a ported reed cylinder, aftermarket ignition, pipe, triple. Clamps, Ohlins, etc. It was fantastic, I was racing my 77 440 aw then with balanced crank and the only difference was the Bul felt lighter and the deceptive speed of the Maico was less deceptive.
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Thanks James it's all helpfull info.. Maybe you should be known as maicobuljames?
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Husky for sale
(http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/blnc/130626/798r1/5065dgm_20.jpeg)
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/ashmore/motorcycles/husqvana-cr390-1977-model-goes-great/1022450856#
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Bring them to the 2013 Classic titles in Qld (see main thread) and test them in the real world.
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John,
The MK10 Buls are a sweet bike. A few tho'ts:
Pomeroy was still doing well internationally on a MK10 in 76
(Yes I know Mk10s came out in 77 but what he was riding in 76 was more or less a Mk10)
Got a feeling Vic Allen was still on one in UK too in 77 & doing fairly well
Floody left Bul for KTM in 76 (IIRC) but never went as well on KTMs, for various reasons.
Parts supply for Buls is excellent - probably best of all VMXers - & usually reasonably cost
The Bultaco blood in my veins would love to say, Go Bultaco, but...
The 250 Mk10 went back to 35mm forks (from 38mm on Mk9) & 125mm front brake (from 140mm on Mk9) to save weight.
Not sure if the 370 did too, but its likely. Moto (on here) would know.
Rear suspension travel is somewhat limited on the pre78 Pursangs due to distance between swingarm pivot & c/s sprocket. Pivot is fairly hi in the frame too so the chain drags badly on top of swingarm if you just run longer shocks for more stroke.
MK11 swingarm is about 30mm longer & is useful mod (if its legal) for more travel.
Notably, Floods were lengthening the swingarm 30mm in 74 I believe. Took the factory another 4yrs to do it.
Bul gearchange is considerably longer than Jap if thats what yr used to, but easy enough to get used to. Somewhat similar to a Maico.
Nice handling & nice power but realistically they were a bit off the pace by 77 I would think.
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(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m605/Husky500evo/IMG_0331_zpsf69264b0.jpg)
John, you are welcome to have a skid on my '77 Montesa VB 360 anytime that I have it down your way. I hope to be taking it to CD10, if you are going there. I have fitted it with a YZ400D front end and a set of WP piggyback shocks, which seems to work pretty well. I had no intention of ever entering it in a national title event, while ever the 9 inch travel rule is in place, but I might reconsider it with this Monty, because I can drop the YZ forks down in the triple clamps and avoid changing the geometry of the bike with internal travel limiting spacers in the forks. The WP shocks have a shorter shaft stroke than the original Betors (but the same overall length) and give a touch under 9 inches travel in the rear. It is a bit harder with my '77 CR390 Husky because to do it properly , if you reduce the length of the forks, you have to reduce the length of the shocks either by internal spacers or shorter shocks. I don't have enough time to work on my bikes as it is, without having to do stupid stuff to modify them backwards from the way they left the factory.
Also, if you wanted to consider another pre '78 model Euro big bore that is completely outside the square, a '77 Husky 390 AMX might be worth looking at, (if you could find one). I have one in bits, that I am eagerly waiting to find the time to put it back together. I love Husky Autos and I think that it could be a real weapon compared to other '77 model bikes, especially with a Mossbarger reed block and a Paul Rooney ported cylinder ;).
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I can remember a '77 Husky AUTO out dragging the field to the first corner at Dargle all day long you could not touch it. It dropped about a wheel length in the initial 2m off the gate then the front wheel stayed about 300mm off the ground for the entire start straight 8) 8). It was just unbelievable to see it from another riders perspective. The guy riding it was no ‘A’ grader just an average rider like me but he pulled holeshot after holeshot that day ;)
That is a very tidy VB you have there :) :)
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The guy riding it was no ‘A’ grader just an average rider like me but he pulled holeshot after holeshot that day ;)
I hope I don't live until I am really old, cause I don't think I am going to have any Super left by the way I am spending it. So where can I get one of these Super auto weapons ;D
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So where can I get one of these Super auto weapons ;D
I think that a '77 390 AMX is a pretty rare bike in Australia. If you look at Husqvarna model ID listings, it shows the '77 model auto as a 360. But there was definitely a 390 AMX made in '77 and I somewhere have a copy of a Motocross Action magazine from mid '77, which incidently had a Bultaco MK10 370 Pursang on the front cover, that has a test on a '77 390 AMX. I think that the differences between the '77 and '78 390 AMX is the same as the CR390, with the '78 models having a larger tube size that the swingarm is made from and tapered roller steering head bearings (the '77 models had ball bearings in the steering head).
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Mark I'd love to have a ride on the Monty some day, not sure about CD10 yet.
JC thanks for that info, I tend to agree that Bully was a bit off the pace by 77 but I've yet to ride one and I'm sure they can be made a little better..
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So where can I get one of these Super auto weapons ;D
I think that a '77 390 AMX is a pretty rare bike in Australia. If you look at Husqvarna model ID listings, it shows the '77 model auto as a 360. But there was definitely a 390 AMX made in '77 and I somewhere have a copy of a Motocross Action magazine from mid '77, which incidently had a Bultaco MK10 370 Pursang on the front cover, that has a test on a '77 390 AMX. I think that the differences between the '77 and '78 390 AMX is the same as the CR390, with the '78 models having a larger tube size that the swingarm is made from and tapered roller steering head bearings (the '77 models had ball bearings in the steering head).
I've got that mag stored away, better get it out and have a read. It's got Rich Eirstedt on the cover on the 250 bully..
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I have a '78 390AMX (it is for sale) & it does not have tapered headset bearings. I've not heard of a '77 390AMX & if you check the Husky id lists, no such animal exists. It's damn fast when you get your head around no clutch or gear levers. I can't see any reason a '78 390 could not be classed as a carry over model with very minimal changes to '77.
K
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So where can I get one of these Super auto weapons ;D
I think that a '77 390 AMX is a pretty rare bike in Australia. If you look at Husqvarna model ID listings, it shows the '77 model auto as a 360. But there was definitely a 390 AMX made in '77 and I somewhere have a copy of a Motocross Action magazine from mid '77, which incidently had a Bultaco MK10 370 Pursang on the front cover, that has a test on a '77 390 AMX. I think that the differences between the '77 and '78 390 AMX is the same as the CR390, with the '78 models having a larger tube size that the swingarm is made from and tapered roller steering head bearings (the '77 models had ball bearings in the steering head).
I've got that mag stored away, better get it out and have a read. It's got Rich Eirstedt on the cover on the 250 bully..
Ok, after looking through my old magazine stash, it appears that Alzheimers is kicking in. The June '77 edition of Motocross Action magazine has Rich Eierstedt on the cover riding a 250 MK10 Pursang (not a 370) and the Husky 390 test is on a CR, not an AMX. The article on the 390 AMX that I was thinking of, was in the October '77 issue of Dirt Bike magazine and they definitely state that it is an official '77 model. I have scanned the AMX test and will post it in the Husqvarna section, if anyone is interested.
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Ok, after looking through my old magazine stash, it appears that Alzheimers is kicking in. The June '77 edition of Motocross Action magazine has Rich Eierstedt on the cover riding a 250 MK10 Pursang (not a 370) and the Husky 390 test is on a CR, not an AMX. The article on the 390 AMX that I was thinking of, was in the October '77 issue of Dirt Bike magazine and they definitely state that it is an official '77 model. I have scanned the AMX test and will post it in the Husqvarna section, if anyone is interested.
Hi mate, I would love to read that article 8) if you can spare the time and are equipped to scan it for us.
By the time I was 23, I had owned 128 different motorcycles, and still to this day the only one I still miss and regret losing is my MK10250. A freind had a 370 Frontera, Beautiful rideable power, but I was young and fit and loved the way the 250 boiled on to the pipe with enthusiasm. Rebored it once. The only failure was a the red coil thing under the tank. Never touched the bottom end, including the clutch. Hardly used that bit actually. Flogged it, but looked after it. I just loved the way it handled under push. I reworked the mechanical advantage on the front brake. Most reliable dirt bike I ever owned. loved it, still do. Could have made it even better these days. And is still one of the sexiest bikes ever. Pure Beautiful.
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(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/marktenpursang_zps9539f236.jpg~original)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/bultaco-192-pursang-1-2338_zps10207c16.jpg~original)
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I have had a few requests to scan and post the 250 Pursang Mk10 test, so I will post it in the Spanish section . Unfortunately, I noticed that the centre page of my magazine is missing and this has the last page or two of the test. Hopefully, someone else can scan and post the missing bits.
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Why no four strokes guys?
I've got a centre port XL350 (412) in what I think is a champion frame. I built it to look like a 4 stroke 76 CR Honda, but with real suspension. KYB factory forks @ spot on 9" and ohlins rear @ 8 1/2" wheel travel with a white brothers alloy swing arm. The thing is a blast to ride as it does everything extremely well, apart from the front brake which is a 76 CR unit. I'd like to try a different front brake set up but I want to keep it all Honda. So far it has been surprisingly competitive at club meets against the big bore YZ's and RM's, even with an unfit 120kg's of beer pig on board.
A mate has built another centre port 350 (450) and shoe horned it into a 77 AW Maico frame. He's still in the process of sorting it but going by all the praise the AW's get for their handling, it should be a good thing as well.
I enjoy having something different and thoroughly enjoyed building the beast, even if it did go "slightly over budget"!
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TBM no doubt there are hybrid 4 strokes that would be competitive in pre 78 and also the CCM, unfortunately they are not readily available and as affordable as the 2 strokes in this country..
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John, how about an MX4 Canam 370?
(if legal for pre78)
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John, how about an MX4 Canam 370?
(if legal for pre78)
They don't really excite me JC, I'm thinking Maico or Husky or if I win the lotto.. CCM
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Hey John,
Beautiful AW400 of my mates here for sale. See the for sale section.
K
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A CCM would be nice in a world where dollars are easy to come by. It would have a good home here beside my B50!
Part of the reason for building the hybrid XL John was the facts that I doubt an affordable CCM will ever come my way any time soon and I just love the "plonkability" of a well tuned four stroke. A big factor was that I had most of the parts already and only needed the donor XL, which I probably paid too much for in my excitement of finding a low kilometer example. All I used off of it was the rear hub and the motor, so there is the chance I can recoup some coin when/if I get around to selling the bits.
It'd be great to get some more four strokes in pre78. I was thinking an SP370 donk in an early RM frame would be an interesting project for something different again. Or even a Hallam framed SP. STOP DREAMING MARK.... it only costs money!