OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Yamaha => Topic started by: Tahitian_Red on July 08, 2013, 08:29:04 am
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I've been slowly accumulating YZ parts here and there for an RT-2MX/YZ360A Hybrid project (Firko would be proud ;-). I picked this up the other day.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/T2eC16dHJGIFFozoShDBRzdmR7tg60_57_zps276fa9d9.jpg)
My black DT-2MX tank will be on eBay soon.
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Wow ! great original patina ! hard to find like that these days ;)
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(Firko would be proud ;-).
Old Firko is indeed proud, for more reasons than the just hybrid. It's great to see the health speedhump hasn't dampened your enthusiasm mate. How are you feeling Jay?
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Bill,
You're tempting me to spend some of my RT hybrid money! That would look nice on my MX100. ;-)
Firko,
I'm feeling great! I've past every test so far, but still have a stress test coming up in the next two weeks. The blood thinner is what will really hold me back for a year or so. Building new ones and selling old ones is all I have right now.
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These are the forks I have for the project:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/311_zpsc5f3b0ca.jpg)
The cases are unstamped and already have the YZ clutch actuator:
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/312_zpsd6b6772c.jpg)
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Bill, That aluminium YZ125A tank is great value! Not a dent to be seen.
Brett
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Got YZ360 front and rear wheels today. Still need to put the finishing touches on the RT-1, but the excitement of the chase (RT2MX/YZ360 Hybrid) is getting me fired up!
Would love to find a Boyd and Stellings swingarm next. ;D
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those forks always worried me when new as didn't appear very thick in the alloy sliders. [must be made off good stuff]Think i measured them back then compared to say any old trail yam or RT2mx & psyched me out even more. In saying that--never saw any break. Probably easily dented by stones fired by [50hp SC500's] if not protected. Good luck with the project. Takes me back to a BSA B50mx if that's what it was called, that a mate rode at our annual Woodville mx back in the day. By the end of the day the forks were bent forward but the worst problem was the alloy sliders were curved forward as well to the point that they stuck down on landing from a jump--just soft alloy i suppose but just shouldn't happen & in hind sight maybe should have turned them half a turn after every race that day. Thanks.
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I'm starting to re-think this project, maybe the MX250a/360a frame is a better starting point? They seem to be more similar to the YZa frames (with the pipe passing through the split frame rails). Will an RT2MX motor bolt into an MX frame?
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Morning all, new forum seems to work ok. RT2MX [or YZA/B type] won't bolt straight into an MX frame sorry. MX is the start of the later shape [stronger in my opinion] type motor which probably carried right through in various guises till [i dunno] "77ish. In saying that it could be 'made to fit', new motor appears a bit longer & might find the S/arm is shorter to keep a similar wheel base. Never liked my MX250A after it spat me off & jumped on me haha--DT2mx never did that!! Not sure now but the MX might be missing the underneath mount but has two in the front instead of one. Anyway--good luck.
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Thanks OTH!
Will the MX cylinders fit the older RTMX/YZ lower ends?
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Will the MX cylinders fit the older RTMX/YZ lower ends?
Will an RT2MX motor bolt into an MX frame?
A big no to both. I think the DT2MX frame is closer to the YZ than the later MX frame, but it's still comparing oranges to lemons. The same family but different enough to know the difference. Everything that Over the Hill Morley says. I reckon using the best suspension on the DT2MX frame would be a better option and without the engine mount welding dramas. I just picked up a great deal.....YZ125-A and YZ360-B TANKS in immaculate, original condition from a mate in Pennsylvania as a swap for a bed to sleep on when he comes here late in the year. How could I argue with that ;D ?
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Wow two great YZ tanks! Is Casa de Firko a four star resort?
;D
OK, looks like it's back to plan A (cheaper that way besides). If you get any leads on a B&S RTMX swingarm, here in the US please let me know.
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and I am sure Firko you don't need the YZ B tank ;)
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Red do you honestly think anyone would pass on a B & S alloy s\arm for a early DT\RT . If you get one I'll give my first born for it . Iain
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two original DT1's for sale here [on trademe nz] under classic & vintage i think. Must say mine doesn't look like either of them bugger it--i'll just have to look at my old pics & wish i hadn't treated her so bad--poor old girl. [4500 start bid--not reserve,on one, & think was 7500 selling price on other, in the end i suppose they're only worth what someone will pay.
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Here two nice ones on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VINTAGE-1970-YAMAHA-DTM-1-250MX-250cc-DIRTBIKE-MOTORCYCLE-CONVERTED-ENDURO-/281137795721?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item41751e5289
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VINTAGE-1970-YAMAHA-RT1M-360MX-360cc-DIRTBIKE-MOTORCYCLE-CONVERTED-ENDURO-/251308952508?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item3a832e4bbc
iainyz,
Is your first born employeed? ;D
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wow they're nice examples, wish they were closer. Only thing to pick on is it worries me when i see the kick start too far forward. Better for comfort no doubt but [i will have to check] wonder if the kick start stop can stop on the down stroke against the case instead of footrest--might have to go one notch more to get that!!. Bit like when you see new or restored bikes for sale looking 'mint' & described as such & in the pick the headlights pointing upwards, grrrr. must be 'me' getting old. Anyway--go the DT's & RT's.
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They are beautiful, but neither one is a real MX. The 250 would make a perfect Big Halsy replica, if you took off the front fender.
;D
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and I am sure Firko you don't need the YZ B tank ;)
Here's my tanks. Is there any difference between the YZ250/360-A tank and the YZ250/360-B tanks other than colour and graphics?
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/yz360tank_zps4a90bfde.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/yz360tank_zps4a90bfde.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/yz125tanka_zpscfd8258d.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/yz125tanka_zpscfd8258d.jpg.html)
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Even the Japs hand formed these at the time so there is going to be a little bit from trades person to trades person ETC
But other than that they should the same.
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I notice that that beautiful RT1MX and DT1MX pair for sale in T-Red's post have 250MX and 360MX oil tank stickers. Does anyone know where to find them? All I can find is the 250/360 Enduro stickers (which I have already). I'm going to convert my DT1 to MX/GYT trim and those stickers are the proper touch.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/stickerdt1mx_zps5449d94f.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/stickerdt1mx_zps5449d94f.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/STICKERrt1mx_zps081f7b49.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/STICKERrt1mx_zps081f7b49.jpg.html)
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I notice that that beautiful RT1MX and DT1MX pair for sale in T-Red's post have 250MX and 360MX oil tank stickers. Does anyone know where to find them? All I can find is the 250/360 Enduro stickers (which I have already). I'm going to convert my DT1 to MX/GYT trim and those stickers are the proper touch.
I reckon I could make some of them Mark. :D
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Firko, A and B tanks are totally different to each other on the inside......one has a skinny top frame tube, the other has a big fat one with a monoshock up it's guts.
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Mark try YZ Decals they have a web site . I know they have the DTMX oil tank stickers . Iain
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beat me to it DC - twin shock bit different to monoshock - that is why you DON'T need the YZB tank Mr Mark ;D
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Firko, A and B tanks are totally different to each other on the inside......one has a skinny top frame tube, the other has a big fat one with a monoshock up it's guts.
beat me to it DC - twin shock bit different to monoshock - that is why you DON'T need the YZB tank Mr Mark
Thanks boyos. As long as it fits over the Hindall top rail I'm a happy camper. I'm going to paint it the Aussie/Euro white with red GT stripe ;D, I think the yellow looks dorky.
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wider in the channel and has differant detents also the top by the filler is differantg and has a different line upwards.
Firko stop before you have to fork around with the tank to make it fit, i have one here that was fitted to a cheney or hindall BSA so i was told when i bought it and they had flattened the inside channel wider and a few other mods. I'd rather give you this one to try and pay the differance than see you hand form another perfectly good tank that us guys with A/B can use.
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yeah - good point Freaky - I would even offer to buy the B tank Firko?
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Firko stop before you have to fork around with the tank to make it fit, i have one here that was fitted to a cheney or hindall BSA so i was told when i bought it and they had flattened the inside channel wider and a few other mods. I'd rather give you this one to try and pay the differance than see you hand form another perfectly good tank that us guys with A/B can use.
What do you exactly mean by ''hand form'' Freaky? Trust me, I'm not going to bugger around with it at all. If it needs any modification to fit the Hindall I won't touch it. In fact, I've been thinking of passing on the B tank as I think I'll end up using the 125 tank as the 360 version is a tad large. I might take another 125 tank from him instead...so both Hindalls will look similar. Whatever I do, is this going to happen every time I use a part off another bike to build my specials? We've already been through this bullshit with the blokes crying foul on the number of YZ125 C/X models ratted of their tanks to build HL Yamahas. How much do you want for the buggered with tank Freaky?
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Here is the frame with the YZ tank and an MX seat that has extra foam for a YZ look. Got the YZ arm and a trick chain tensioner too!
;D
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/IMG_0873_zps6e2175cc.jpg)
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Firko tank not for sale but for swap plus cash your way.
RED. dont use that arm i have a better alternative for you.
maybe bothof you PM me so its hits my email
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Picked up this little NOS beauty the other day
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/IMG_1134_zpsdd16712c.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/IMG_1135_zps13784819.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/IMG_1137_zps1eb20f09.jpg)
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NOS RT2MX? Great find my friend. The RT2MX engine I got from the USA a year or two ago is still on usable original bore but NOS is cool. Back in the early 90's a fellow racer gave me a NOS RT1 GYT cylinder which now has pride of place in my Cheney.
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Slowly gathering more pieces. Just got YZ wheels and axles.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/IMG_1161_zps6dcdfdec.jpg)
Still need a '75 YZ or MX rear backing plate, but wondering if a '79 YZ one will work?
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You want a 74/75/76 YZA/B/C....250/360/400 or MX250/400B backing plate Red.....there's plenty out there in USA ebayland. The MXB ones will probably be the cheapest.....they are all magnesium. Cheers.
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The MXB ones will probably be the cheapest.....they are all magnesium
I don't like the mag front backing plate, it's bloody annoying when the fragile little cable adjuster boss invariably breaks. I stick with the sturdy aluminium version, the weight difference is bugger-all. The rears don't have any problems that I've noticed.
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I stumbled across some real treasure lately.
NOS YZA clutch cover
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/ClutchCover_zpse5e97f6d.jpg)
NOS YZA triple clamps
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/TripleLower_zps5d4d311e.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/TripleTop_zpsbdb40318.jpg)
I was going to use an MX250 lower clamp with a YZ100 upper, but now I have the real deal. I am really excited about the clutch cover! Now the RT-2MX motor will have a nice YZ360A look.
;D
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have a DT1 based motor with one of those covers on--always look at it & think, how sad,--sad i don't have the rest of it bugger it!! God i remember the days of when we got a 250 & 360 as redundant stock at work. One guy at work bought the 360A & a local bought the 250A [i'm crying now]. I'm sure 'that' 250 sold for $800. Have a second cover that's been welded 30 odd years ago but needs a fair bit taken of it to become flat. Think it's welded on the lower left 1/4 by memory.
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I've got a YZ cover too but can't figure how to pour oil into the DT1 engine when it's fitted? The oil hole is in the cover on the DT1 and in the case on the YZ....or am I having another old guy moment and missing something obvious?
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Tacho drive hole old timer.
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Tacho drive hole old timer
Yeah but the tach drive has had a bung araldited in on my DT2MX engine that I want to use for my counterfeit YZ-A. I'll figure something out. 8)
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I've got a YZ cover too but can't figure how to pour oil into the DT1 engine when it's fitted? The oil hole is in the cover on the DT1 and in the case on the YZ....or am I having another old guy moment and missing something obvious?
Does the Jones Mag cover have the oil filler hole?
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Oil--Fk, did i?, don't recall turning it upside down & filling it through the drain plug [would i do that!!], must've done through tacho hole, got me worried now.
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You still after a backing plate, front or back?
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Does the Jones Mag cover have the oil filler hole?
I always thought that they did but it doesn't look like it in these photos although that could be a filler directly below the oil feed bolt on the barrel on the bottom shot.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/jonesclutch_zps4a5b8a75.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/jonesclutch_zps4a5b8a75.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Hindall2-003.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/Hindall2-003.jpg.html)
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I always thought it was through the tacho blind plug on the YZ . Iain
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Looks like the YZ cases just had the tach drive hole tapped for a threaded plug.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/canvas2_zpsbada7bdb.png)
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100% correct Red.
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I have the opportunity to buy an RT2 Works cylinder, but it has a chrome bore and not sure where I could find a cast iron ring to fit a 360 piston?
Anybody know if one (iron ring) exists?
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There are plenty on Ebay over here in the US.It is part # 365-11611-70.It is available for buy it now of 24.95 USD and 8.99 shipping to Australia.
The 70 designates it is a cast iron ring for a chrome bore.
Bill Davis Texas Vintage Racing Club
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Thanks Bill !
Which 360 models came with the chrome bore?
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YZ360A....all GYT cylinders...the 70 on the end of the part number means it a cast iron ring.....Bill, Reds one of your countrymen.
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I'd love to see [& have] a chrome 360 cylinder. Only ever seen chrome on the 250A & B cylinders, 360A & B down here had a thin liner allowing two oversizes. I have a 360B cylinder [& i have a plan--just not happening], mine is on .25 over so one bore left to go if necessary. Does the GYT kit 360 cylinder mean it's a chrome job!! as opposed to the original cylinder on A & B? Cheers.
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I recently bought a YZ-A cylinder from an Irishman living in Canada that's got an iron liner on 2nd oversize. He sold it because he wanted his bike to be 100% standard right down to a chrome cylinder so when he found one in usable condition the iron version got the flick. His quest for perfection is my gain ;). I'm using it with an ACK head on my DT2MX bottom end with YZ clutch cover and YZ clutch basket and 'Crockett Racing Conglomerate' YZ style sprocket cover/clutch actuator. It'll be my counterfeit YZ250-A ;D
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All of the YZ 360's (A & B) that I have seen over here in the US had the thin steel liners that could only be bored a couple of times.The only 360 cylinders I've seen over here were RT1MX.There must have been some MX360A cylinders too as their prefix is 364 like the ring but I've never seen one.
I do have a couple of chrome bore PDV cylinders.I just recently ported one of them to YZ 360 specs and had it Nikisiled but haven't fired it up yet.
I have a NOS YZ 360 liner and a couple of YZ 360 cylinders if anyone needs one.
Hey Firko,I have a Jones Cover on one of my PDV's and it has no oil filler.
I tapped out the Tach Drive hole to 3/8 pipe as I recall and have a brass plug in it.
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Just read my last post.It should have said the only chrome bore 360 cylinders I've seen were non reed Rt1MX.
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There must have been different specifications for different models Bill.....Aussie YZ-A & B were chrome bore (I'm presuming all of them) and my new besty in Canada told me that the YZ-As they got were "Euro spec", whatever that entails. My GYT RT1 cylinder has a cast iron bore so that backs my hunch that DT1/RT1 MX and GYT cylinders are different, going against popular belief that they're the same. I've been searching libraries and the internet for years trying to find some definitive information on both GYT and MX piston port Yamahas but I've found nothing of any substance so far. My friend had a lot to do with the Yamaha factory race effort during the DT1 era and he's still got the 'factory' RT1 porting specs that he got from Don Jones back in the day. In them there are separate porting instructions for the iron barrel and the chrome version which adds to the mystery :-\.
Bill, I'm still desperately looking for a Jones clutch cover if you ever come across another one ;).
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was going to use an MX250 lower clamp with a YZ100 upper, but now I have the real deal.
What are the difference between MX and YZ triple clamps?
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The YZ-A clamps have an aluminum stem that is welded to the lower clamp while the DT2MX/MX/YZ-B models have a steel stem that bolts to the lower clamp.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/MX360Triple_zps9aa0bae5.jpg)
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YZB went back to steel pins and have seen some A with the steel too but most are the ally.
I have a GYT piston port barrell and from what i can tell the hole thing is cast around a steel insert which includes all the ports, transfers and so on, so you cant just sleeve it, unless it was bore to take a steel inside steel simple liner.
ITS basically a complete barrell but with ally fins cast over it..... its only yammy can i have seen like it ( but then i dont get out much )
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My RT1MX is a iron cylinder 2mm over . Its the only RT\DT 1 mx part I own . Iain
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YZB went back to steel pins and have seen some A with the steel too but most are the ally.
What do you mean by steel pins Freaky?
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He means the stem.
That thingy that the steering head bearings go on. ;D
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The steering stems on the YZA's here in the US were aluminum and bent fairly easily by most fast pro's.They were usually replaced by steel ones from DT/RT2MX's or MX250/360's or SC500's.They were press fit.
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What do you mean by steel pins Freaky?
Yeah, it makes sense now.. from time to time I have a bit of trouble with Freak Speak ;D
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NO probs.
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Yeah, steering stems--God i remember my Elsinore CR250M ended up bending the steering stem from landing hard on jumps. Put a dogs leg in it after a lot of use so turned it half a turn & it slowly did it again so made a stem out of an old Yamy Landscout fork leg. Practiced my thread cutting till i got it right [didn't really know what i was doing but]. Think that was the one that i was trying suspension tricks on & moved the shocks forward plus had shorter ordinary oil girlings forward of that again to assist the piss poor damping of the main ones--did work ok as a stop gap measure till gas girlings came along. They lasted ok in the vertical position but didn't like being cantered forward too far or gave up pretty quick. Where i worked we were the NZ agent for Girlings & had truck loads of them. Got a pair on one of my relics that i put yamy gas valves in so i could change the oil & experiment & just gassed up with the compressor via a needle to 120psi [not ideal i know but nothing exploded--yet]. Anyway, where was i--lost.
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Here are some pics of the YZ-A stem for comparison
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/IMG_1243_zps98447d06.jpg)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/IMG_1242_zpsb7248cd5.jpg)
The top clamp is different also (smaller hole)
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/Tahtitian_Red/IMG_1244_zps5ef13057.jpg)
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I weighed the triple clamps I was going to use vs. the YZ-A set and there is over a 1 pound savings. Adding up the weight savings with the items I have, my RT2MX Hybrid should be in the 210-212lb range.
Not sub-200 like Barry Watkins' effort, but pretty good for starting with a 238lb pig. I'm foregoing the Ti axles and engine internals lightening to hold costs down.
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I'm aiming at the magic 200lb make with my RT2MX Jay but I'm at an advantage with the Chro-mo Hindall frame. I'm using mag Profab triple clamps, Can-Am back wheel, alloy YZ125-A tank, alloy seat base and little things like 'some' ti bolts, titanium Jones handlebars and hollow Chro-mo axles and swingarm pivot that came with the frame. I've changed the plans for my other almost identical Hindall and it'll get the hybrid DT2MX engine with YZ-A top end.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/HindallDT1030.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/HindallDT1030.jpg.html)
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Firko,
It should be a very cool bike! I'll post a Harry Hindall article I have. He looks like he could step out of the pages and be some cool dude walking down the street today. Is he still alive?
On a side note what ever happened with the McCook Racing website?
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Firko,
It should be a very cool bike! I'll post a Harry Hindall article I have. He looks like he could step out of the pages and be some cool dude walking down the street today. Is he still alive?
On a side note what ever happened with the McCook Racing website?
McCook only recently pulled the website after a year or two of inactivity. He's dropped out of the sport because of business taking up much of his time...he runs a big multi national electrical components company...and most of all, a racing back injury prevernting him from riding any more. He and I are still good mates, in fact he's going to stay at Casa del Firko over Christmas/New Year while down here for the holidays. He's selling up a lot of his stuff but is keeping his street trackers and café racers. The YZ125-A tank for my Hindall is from his stash.
Harry Hindall was indeed a cool dude with his beatnik goatee and polo neck sweaters. I'm a bit of a student of aftermarket frame maker welding and I reckon Harry's bronze welding to be the best I've seen except for Mark Jannink from Mojo frames in England http://www.mojomotorbikes.co.uk/home.html (http://www.mojomotorbikes.co.uk/home.html) who's in a class of his own. Harry Hindall took his own life at a shooting range in New Mexico back in '02 or so.
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Hey Marcos you should chase up old mate Ji for some up to the minute Titanium info. J
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I'm aiming at the magic 200lb make with my RT2MX Jay but I'm at an advantage with the Chro-mo Hindall frame. I'm using mag Profab triple clamps, Can-Am back wheel, alloy YZ125-A tank, alloy seat base and little things like 'some' ti bolts, titanium Jones handlebars and hollow Chro-mo axles and swingarm pivot that came with the frame. I've changed the plans for my other almost identical Hindall and it'll get the hybrid DT2MX engine with YZ-A top end.
Hey Mark,
Where those YZA tanks alloy? I always thought they were steel for some reason,
Pete.
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125/250/360 A/B YZeds all had alloy tanks.
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Its not a YZ80 tank is it Mark .
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Its not a YZ80 tank is it Mark .
The tank in the photo is a YZ80 (steel) but the photo was taken a year ago. I've got a YZ125 tank (alloy) for it now. The photo shows the engine as a piston port DT1 but it's getting a reed RT2MX motor now. This is my tank before dispatch to Oz.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/photo49_zps0f7b419b.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/photo49_zps0f7b419b.jpg.html)
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While we are talking about engine swops I wonder if you guy's can help . Ive put a GYT head on my piston port motor , set the timing to dt1mx spec's but she it running so hot Im worried that I'll melt a piston . Any ideas gents . Iain
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Sounds like it is running lean Iain, did you change the jetting at all?....the only difference would be the higher compression making the motor more efficient.....are GYT carby specs much different?
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Add another base gasket and add a size or 2 on the pilot.
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No I had not changed any jetting I'll look at the jets specs for the DT1MX . thanks freaky I'll start with your way first . Iain
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Wow what a difference DT1 main jet 160 , DT1mx 200 . DT1 pilot 35 , DT1mx 80 . Valve seat 2.0 DT1 , DT1mx 2.5 . slide cut away DT1 2.5 , DT1mx 3.5 . DT1 needle is 5d1-3 and the DT1MX is 5DP7-3 . A fair bit of difference there . Time to have a look in the box of jets . Iain
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Not sure if i read it rite, but, if you put a GYT kit head on a standard ported DT1 cylinder i don't think you'd have to change the [std carb] much [if at all]. I did try that once on a fairly worn piston port DT1 but just made the rattly piston rattle worse. In saying that, i probably never knocked the timing back a bit [40 odd years ago!!], in those days i used to think more was better [advance]--slow learner 'me'. Standard DT1 pipe might be strangling it so far as making use of more power [high com] which might be just creating more 'heat' [as i think you said]. I'll stop there thanks just in-case i have my wires crossed & heading off track [good at that]. Cheers. ps, higher com needs higher octane fuel too of course.
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No its got a down pipe built to the Yamaha tuning book specs stage 2 . Ported to stage 2 from the same book , 34 mm carbie .Iain