OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Paul552 on June 25, 2013, 07:33:31 pm
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http://www.fullnoise.com.au/
2t alive and kicking in Europe
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(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b525/TFR555/b2d2f85bdadf74ecc4369df5536e8b7e_zps9b656a7b.jpg)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b525/TFR555/e8f4d098e12a7b9ccb70648a8f5e440b_zps32b6c238.jpg)
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Cool, that'll be worth watching. Even on the mostly standardised gp tracks.
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"Most manufacturers wishing to compete in the series will need to develop a bike"... Huh? Everyone is close to having something viable in their line-up already.
Beta, Fantic, GasGas, Husqvarna, KTM/Husaberg, Ossa, Sherco and TM all offer (or are about to offer) a 300cc 2T enduro bike. Yamaha still makes the YZ250.
Even Kawi, Honda and Suzuki aren't miles away from offering a worthwhile 2T MX bike - rehash their last 250 MX motor into their current 4T MX roller and they're three-quarters of the way there already.
It's kind of ironic that their departure has slowed 2T engine development, so their last offerings aren't hopelessly outclassed ten years later...
The best thing about this is what it could mean for the MXdN. ;)
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2 strokes wooohooooo ...
It's all happening
Ching Ching Mr Giussepe Luongo
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=29425.0
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This will make the guys at forward motion happy, all those old 250 2T's will be wanting 295 kits. Better get that 250 2T now before the prices start going up.
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Let's hope that this is the beginning of the end of Dr Evils (Luongo) reign. It had to happen with so many good two strokes available from the Euro manufacturers.
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I am not sure why we need this though. Can those bogus MX1/2/3 designations and bring back what the fans want.
125cc
250cc
500cc
Set the classes correctly and the manufacturers will build appropriate bikes.
I have no problem if the 250cc class takes the premier class designation, but the traditionalist in me says that the 500cc class should be the main one. Personally I believe the switch from the 500 to the 250 class was when things started the big downhill spiral.
On a sideways rant - the last thing we need is increasing capacity sizes. Suspension technology combined with other improvements has the speeds at a level that they need to build SX style jumping tracks to reduce the overall speed. I am not sure that is the correct way to go - things like big drop-offs, off-camber corners etc are much better at that.
SX classes ...
125cc
250cc
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Good idea but I'm suspicious because of Luongos involvement
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What about a conspiracy theory:
The motorcycle companies wanted a new way to make $$, so they develop these highly strung 4 bangers which makes everyone go out and buy new bikes and into the bargain the repair costs are sometimes so inhibitive that at times the bikes become a throw away item...
Did man really land on the moon 1969?
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What about a conspiracy theory:
The motorcycle companies wanted a new way to make $$, so they develop these highly strung 4 bangers which makes everyone go out and buy new bikes and into the bargain the repair costs are sometimes so inhibitive that at times the bikes become a throw away item...
http://articles.superhunky.com/4/106 (http://articles.superhunky.com/4/106)
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I dont understand why we still dont have air/fuel injection two stroke bikes even the likes of KTM who's top selling model is the 300 two stroke seem reluctant to build one. We know it can be done but why isn't it? I cant see selling them as a problem.
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The head KTM technition told us that KTM have built and tested fuel injected 2 strokes.. They say they'll release it when the market is ready
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Willing told me years ago when he designed the new linkage suspension for them that they had Fuel injection prototypes and more or less injection on the 250 GP bikes. Why dont they think we are ready for them? Surely a well mapped 300 two stroke with extra torque that can get 200km from a 12 litre tank would sell?
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I dont understand why we still dont have air/fuel injection two stroke bikes
(http://www.ossamotorcycles.com.au/images/modern/Large/ossa_001.jpg)
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Willing told me years ago when he designed the new linkage suspension for them that they had Fuel injection prototypes and more or less injection on the 250 GP bikes. Why dont they think we are ready for them? Surely a well mapped 300 two stroke with extra torque that can get 200km from a 12 litre tank would sell?
I guess lots of people are still buying new four strokes.
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I dont understand why we still dont have air/fuel injection two stroke bikes
(http://www.ossamotorcycles.com.au/images/modern/Large/ossa_001.jpg)
Yes I have also seen the enduro model that came out 2 years ago but I cant go and buy one. And if people are buying fourstokes why is the biggest selling off road bike the KTM 300?
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I dont understand why we still dont have air/fuel injection two stroke bikes
(http://www.ossamotorcycles.com.au/images/modern/Large/ossa_001.jpg)
Yes I have also seen the enduro model that came out 2 years ago but I cant go and buy one. And if people are buying fourstokes why is the biggest selling off road bike the KTM 300?
The figures I looked at have the WR450 at number 1 and the only 2 stroke in the top ten is the peewee 50 at number7.. 4 strokes still rule and that's why they get all the new technology
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Im talking world wide not Aus after all you could be the top selling bike in Aus and it would count for nothing.
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Yes I have also seen the enduro model that came out 2 years ago but I cant go and buy one. And if people are buying fourstokes why is the biggest selling off road bike the KTM 300?
Ossa are stretched financially presently and don't have the latitude to develop the enduro bike. They and Gasser are sharing resources but remain separate companies under the same roof.
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I read last night that KTM stated they won't release a injected 2stroke until 2017, real thing holding 2strokes back is that the FIM has/had a rule banning direct injection from racing which is what is needed to really clean up emissions & economy
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Bit of a catch 22 now ! with a whole generation of riders being railroaded into the 250-2T up against 450-4T thing , and all brainwashed into thinking they need the 4 banger to win -just like the pro's ::) Its gunna take a while , but forward thinkers like KTM etc will be biding their time, 2017 will come around and simple,fast, easy to work on machines will rule once again ;D as long as they dont come up with more bullshit rules to hobble them :-\
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fork Honda and there hate of two strokes, they are responsible for the FIM banning direct injection. KTM should do it regardless of the rules and then let buyers decide.
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Bit of a catch 22 now ! with a whole generation of riders being railroaded into the 250-2T up against 450-4T thing , and all brainwashed into thinking they need the 4 banger to win -just like the pro's ::) Its gunna take a while , but forward thinkers like KTM etc will be biding their time, 2017 will come around and simple,fast, easy to work on machines will rule once again ;D as long as they dont come up with more bullshit rules to hobble them :-\
The average motocross rider just like you and me is better off on a 4 stroke, they are easier to ride fast.. That's why we buy them.
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Yeah no not me ! i've ridden a few 450s yzf/rmz/ktm and enjoy the strong midrange on the 250 & 300 2 strokes more . But everyones has their own opinion - hence the free discussion ! i see MXA's test riders actually clock better lap times on the 2ts in the earlier thread :-\
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I dont ride MX, but for DT and social riding i prefer 2 strokes, have ridden four many four strokes and only prefer them for mono's
Brett
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20 years ago I thought why cant they just copy the Maico 490 update it to water cooling add air/fuel injection and just polish it? This engine is smoother and nicer to ride than any current 4 stroke I have ridden. No doubt it could more powerful as well. This engine is now 30 years old and really nothing much better has come along except the KTM 300.
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I'm interested to see if the new 300 2 stroke class attracts any big name riders and if many of the factories field a team. It certainly is a good idea instead of the lacklustre mx3 class that really didn't have that much talent in the field.
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I should focus on how positive this new 300 class is and hopefully a new direction is made. Lap times should be interesting after a few months of GP's to settle in. We can wish that this racing brings new ideas and money back to 2 strokes.
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And new brands. Ossa, GAS Gas, TM etc
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And new brands. Ossa, GAS Gas, TM etc
I doubt whether Gasser will have anything to do with it. They realize their market is enduros and trials and stick with those disciplines. They have been bitten by the MX market in the past.
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Im not convinced re injection on 2/s. KTM have stated its off the books due to it causing a big hit in the price and not being worth the cash.
face it, dewatering a 350excf with injection in the bush requires extreme care with filters etc when pulling the tank off. terrific in the bucketing rain and mud up to your ass.
Oops thread hijack.... ::)
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This is worth a look, features ktm300 and the free ride gets a good look in also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LQGXl7vQt0
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And new brands. Ossa, GAS Gas, TM etc
I doubt whether Gasser will have anything to do with it. They realize their market is enduros and trials and stick with those disciplines. They have been bitten by the MX market in the past.
Yep. The 2012 air box debacle made me wonder whether they're on drugs.
I guess the other possibility is that they might figure its the easiest way to get a competitive foot in the door?
Big opening for KTM or the (soon to be?) reborn Husqvarna, really.