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Marque Remarks => Yamaha => Topic started by: OverTheHill on June 05, 2013, 05:51:06 pm

Title: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: OverTheHill on June 05, 2013, 05:51:06 pm
Were sent this by Yamaha to try but never did, wonder if anyone else ever tried one or have i got the only one ever made!!. By the time it arrived we'd worn ours out to oversize. Has super skinny rings but not sure what happened to those if i ever got them, or possibly they're just standard ring thickness for that year but think 'not'.(http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y476/gasgirlings/PIC_0473_zps86172a5f.jpg) (http://s1276.photobucket.com/user/gasgirlings/media/PIC_0473_zps86172a5f.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: OverTheHill on June 14, 2013, 09:04:41 am
pics not 'that' good but can just make out that the transfers are advanced by a 2 or 3mm, obviously weren't too worried about squish etc. Bit more of that & she'd look like a 'real old' villiers deflector top piston [or not].
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: Slakewell on June 14, 2013, 09:12:27 am
I guess it allows a bit more port timing. I did something similar back in the 90,s to try and get more power from my WR 200
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: evo550 on June 15, 2013, 08:43:56 am
I did something similar back in the 90,s to try and get more power from my WR 200

Me too, but I gave up and went looking for a stone I could get some blood from instead  ;)
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: OverTheHill on June 15, 2013, 04:13:48 pm
yes, just thought it a bit unusual for the factory to be trying something like that with a genuine piston. maybe we had the only one in existance, [i smell money now, must be worth lots--or not] they'd be pushing shit uphill trying to get extra torque out of an 80 anyway [me thinks], in saying that i don't recall our 80J being particularly bad in any respect apart from having the radiator sticking out like [heavy] dogs balls. Did a few sets of sea;s at work on the J's [& was it from the H model on 125's!!]. Sir my steering head's leaking water?, keep the head bearings tight too so there's no play to pull on the seals i used to think. Yamaha had a bad problem with [mainly little road bikes] where the top cone used to bare on the threaded portion of the stem & the threads would get flattened & leave movement in the 'stem to bearing fit'. --Yes dear i know my tea's getting cold--mmmm gotta go. Haven't proof read--YES DEAR.
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: Lozza on June 15, 2013, 11:50:55 pm
Has anybody worked out why this is a crap idea?
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: head on June 15, 2013, 11:55:41 pm
squish band
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: oldyzman on June 16, 2013, 08:45:10 am
If it was a great idea then every small bore two stroke would use it, if it were half reasonable then some would use it. Still an interesting way to modify port timimg without messing with the barrel.
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: OverTheHill on June 16, 2013, 08:47:36 am
just remembered yamaha sending us 'thinner reeds' back in the 125E days, don't recall them being 'better' in fact back in the bucket days with wild port timing i had to double up on standard reeds to stop a crazy blubbering just as it tried to 'come on the pipe' [so to speak], worked too--but wasn't me that thought of it & i was trying to carburate it out, mind you i'd welded a big yamaha reed block into the back of a mudbug 100 cylinder [don't ask]. Gosh i remember the early bucket days at our 'local airforce base' running no flywheel cover on the mudbug to let the heat out & the end broke off the crank complete with flywheel & disappeared into the fuel storage area [never did find it]. Next time out the crank pin broke right through the middle while at 10 grand+ [big vibes all of a sudden], had a new [old stock, free] cranckpin with the oil hole in the middle [for slinger oil feed] where as mudbug is solid, mind you they're not meant to be ported & piped to 13000 [well, that was the theory--not sure if got there but sure revved hard].
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: mitch75 on June 16, 2013, 09:02:44 am
I am new to two stroke tunning so I am interested in why it is a crap idea.
The raised section is on the exhaust side making it's timing earlier unless you raised the exhaust port this would be a crap idea  ???
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: Lozza on June 16, 2013, 12:20:46 pm
Nothing to do with reeds or the squish band
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: OverTheHill on June 16, 2013, 06:05:18 pm
Please Sir, can i have a guess?, ummm, speak up boy, does the 'step up' bit tend to hinder the transfers from helping to excavate the spent exhaust gases. [No boy, back in the corner] Ok. How many guesses do we get!!. Cheers.
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: Lozza on June 16, 2013, 07:34:23 pm
Back to remedial class .Transfers don't evacuate spent gases . NO guesses, educated guestimates are unlimited
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: OverTheHill on June 16, 2013, 08:13:10 pm
did think the charge coming up from the bottom helped the last of the exhaust gas out the door & got to port just in time to stop any exhaust getting back in. Willing to learn but just have trouble retaining it long term haha. Have to admit i started googling the answer [bloody cheat] but just couldn't make myself push 'search', feel much better after 'not' doing that.
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: OverTheHill on June 16, 2013, 08:38:46 pm
Re-thinking what i said--does the chamber draw the exhaust out after the initial opening plus helps draw the next charge up from the crancase then the shock wave coming back [if all chamber calculations are correct] arrives just in time to stop the fresh charge from escaping out the door?. Sorry this isn't getting to the answer as to 'why advancing the transfers is a crap idea'!!. Or did you mean doing it by modding the piston is a bad idea?. I'll just watch for a bit as run out of ideas. Cheers.
Title: Re: Found an old unused genuine yamaha yz80J experimental "Torque Piston"
Post by: Lozza on June 16, 2013, 11:14:23 pm
Part A
No the chamber doesnt draw anything out at the very beginning on export open. At BDC is where the chamber pulls hard on the transfers. There is no 'shock' wave in a pipe there is 3 waves pressure, particle and sound. We can't pick the difference but pressure moves the fastest, followed by particle and the sound. Yes you want the reflection of pressure to arrive back at the exhaust port as it is closing. By the time the transfers are fully open exhaust gases should be long gone.
Moding the piston or rasing the transfers does the same thing just 2 different ways of doing it.
 Read the ESE tuner thread on Kiwibiker from about pg 450 onwards and you get some valuable info it's always there to refer back to. A good tip to find something on a 800pg thread is google " ESE Tuner transfers Wobbly Frits Overmars"

Yuou get this

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/86554-ESE-s-works-engine-tuner/page657