OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Competition => Topic started by: John Orchard on April 11, 2013, 02:34:27 pm
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In light of the problem of lack of entries for the 2013 Post Classic MX Champs I thought I'd start this thread, that way nothing can be perceived as having a go at the Lakes Motorcycle Club.
I think we need to break this issue down into the following categories (feel free to add what you think I have missed).
This is all stuff quickly off the top of my head, I know you all will have some great ideas, if anyone wants to bitch, start your own thread ;-)
Cost
Effort
Support
Advertising
MA
Races
Classes
Age
Prize money / awards
COST
* Number of days racing.
* Entry fees.
* Accommodation at event.
* Distance travelled to the event.
EFFORT
* Getting bike scrutineered.
* Washing bikes at event.
* Size of paddock.
* Closed paddock?
SUPPORT
* Need for assistance by a pit crew.
* Pit boarding area.
* Entry closing date, a period is needed to structure classes.
ADVERTISING
* Sending out printable & emailable promo posters & entry-forms.
* National club register for mail-outs.
* Bike shop (VMX friendly) register for poster & entry-form mail-outs.
MA
Now this could get me in some grief, maybe vmx'ers could look at running outside of MA, could it save the costs of permits & complying with class categories, all this would it make the event more rider friendly and lower the costs greatly?
RACES
* Length of races.
* Minimum entries or no-go.
CLASSES
* combining classes.
* Adding new classes (eg: Super Evo Pre 95?)
* Running non-comp classes, allowing recreation licence holders to ride.
AGE
* Set the eligable machine for age racing by numbers, eg: Keep upping the accepted year models until the field is substantial? If you have to allow modern bikes to get a good field of 60 - 70 year olds so be it.
PRIZE MONEY / AWARDS
* Certificates that can be scanned, laminated, board mounted.
* Not many riders have ever raced for prize money.
* Do not let presentation eat into riding time.
I think it is time to think outside the square and make events as easy, low cost & fun to do, what worked in the past will not work in the future. Maybe this thread will give some constructive ideas to clubs thinking about running events?
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* Sending out printable & emailable promo posters & entry-forms.
* National club register for mail-outs.
Riders know when National and Club Calenders are out.
If they are going to ride they are going to ride.
How hard can it be.
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You need to get off the pian killers , have never read so much B#&% S#!@ in all my life.
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You need to get off the pian killers , have never read so much B#&% S#!@ in all my life.
I told you start your own thread
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Is there really a problem Australia wide? National titles, Classic Dirt, State titles and club days in Qld have always attracted large numbers.. I might be biased but that's the facts.
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* Sending out printable & emailable promo posters & entry-forms.
* National club register for mail-outs.
Riders know when National and Club Calenders are out.
If they are going to ride they are going to ride.
How hard can it be.
Obviously not, I haven't looked at a calendar yet, I know other riders that haven't but even so, with the memories like we have it does not hurt to promote an event closer to the date when everyone has a better idea of where they are at.
It appears that there are a few people that are not prepared to think outside the square and move with the times.
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You might want to stick to your non competive club .As far as compatition goes ,you seem to have no idea .
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Is there really a problem Australia wide? National titles, Classic Dirt, State titles and club days in Qld have always attracted large numbers.. I might be biased but that's the facts.
Yeh it seems like you have good turn-outs in Qld. I think events like Classic Dirt have a wider appeal and will always attract more riders, just like the Broadford Bonanza.
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The club scene in NSW is healthy enough - Heaven typically gets 50+ riders, Northern gets 20+, Vinduros are well supported.
There's plenty of reasons why the post-Classic Nats aren't bursting at the seams - I don't believe that this is a particular sign of ill-health in the post-classic era of the sport.
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I haven't looked at a calendar yet,
Can I ask why ?? so I can perhaps have more of an understanding of why 100 odd riders havent entered a National Comp yet.
cheers
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You might want to stick to your non competive club .As far as compatition goes ,you seem to have no idea .
Me supporting a non competitive club is just me trying to move with the times, non-comp motocross & roadracing is already larger than competition classes, I think lessons can be learned.
Just because I am the President of a recreation riding club doesn't really mean I can't contribute in racing circles, I have a National competition licence, have had since 1974, I am on the Board at Motorcycling Victoria, I am an A grade roadracer and I also ride modern MX, I would think I am eligable as anyone here to try and offer contructive idea's?
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Is there really a problem Australia wide? National titles, Classic Dirt, State titles and club days in Qld have always attracted large numbers.. I might be biased but that's the facts.
Yeh it seems like you have good turn-outs in Qld. I think events like Classic Dirt have a wider appeal and will always attract more riders, just like the Broadford Bonanza.
For sure mate, Victoria used to be a very healthy VMX state..
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I haven't looked at a calendar yet,
Can I ask why ?? so I can perhaps have more of an understanding of why 100 odd riders havent entered a National Comp yet.
cheers
I don't know why riders haven't entered the National event yet, I guess that is my reason to starting this thread?
My case in not studying the calendar is a bit different to some, having 5 major operations this year has not had me thinking about what events I can race at. But even with all those ops I have still run our clubs monthly ride days, so I know the hard work that goes on behind the scenes.
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You say you are on the Board Of MV , but you suggest that VMX runs outside of MA . As for the other dribble A grade road racer,modern mx who realy gives a s%$( .
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You say you are on the Board Of MV , but you suggest that VMX runs outside of MA . As for the other dribble A grade road racer,modern mx who realy gives a s%$( .
Yeh whatever.
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Oh come on now, you may not agree with Johns ideas but only a fool would argue his right or depth of experience in the professional and recreational motorcycling world to have them.
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The only thing that comes to mind is has been ,no sorry never been .
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Thanks guy's, just trying to put it out there so riders with more experience than I can offer input.
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John i reckon a bloke like you should have a go at running a few VMX club days or practice days. Seems you're willing to have a go and listen to others input..
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VMX designed to enjoy past era's in a pleasant, controlled enviroment, that leads into club, state (in some states) and national championships. but the main reason a majority of riders take part is simply fun. I've never seen anybody knocked for being the slowest rider at a meet, maybe a bit of fun over a few beers but that is it. Everybody just wants people to come along and have fun in a controlled environment. i myself am introducing my step son (25yrs) to VMX and he can't wait and he's alreasdy been lined up as a sack of potatoes on a sidecar.
VMX doesn't need changing it need to be remembered for what it is to a majority of people, just damn good fun, I am the worlds worst rider and mechanic, with a wife who takes a damn good photo. I am the most popular person in the pits when she is there, and nobody talks to me when she isn't!!!lol
Over here in the west, you still get the bickering and politics, but we still all turn up and enjoy it. There will probably 20 plus bikes will head over to the Classic championships in Nov from both clubs (VMXWA and Pre85MXWA), we are already working out ways to raise some cash thelp those who decide to attend. How many of those will be competitive, just a handful, but the rest of us will damn enjoy every minute of mud, blood and beer and have a great laugh, build comaradery and great memories. Thats why we ride
enjoy people, remember enjoy!!!!
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John i reckon a bloke like you should have a go at running a few VMX club days or practice days. Seems you're willing to have a go and listen to others input..
YES!!! I am trying to work it out how I can, whether it's at my own property or at Broadford. I hand-built a VMX track at Broadford only to have the local council close the area down for us. I am on the verge of getting out of the Mitchell Recreation Club and joining the Veterans Association and starting to promote Veterans racing (eg: 40-50, 50-60 60-70 & over 70), I'm a little over everything for the Juniors of this sport.
And for Grant, a little of my history, and I'm still trying to squeeze more in ;-) http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=19591.0
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Don't worry John there is always some knockers, and they are free to add their opinion as equally as you can add you opinion. i know you have raced for many years so yes you do know what you are talking about.
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Did you just change the question;
Does VMX in Australia need a refresh?
Not at Club level NO !!
We could take out SA and NT to make it all a bit closer :-X :D ;)
Yeh I did change the heading, sorry, I thought it sounded like there was a problem with VMX in Australia but a few forumer's made me realize that VMX is strong.
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Thanks John good read but seems you spent more time on your arse than on the bike . ;D
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Thanks John good read but seems you spent more time on your arse than on the bike . ;D
Ha ha, things never change ;-)
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What year was it when you last sat your arse on a bike and raced it Grant?
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About 6 years ago
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Is there really a problem Australia wide? National titles, Classic Dirt, State titles and club days in Qld have always attracted large numbers.. I might be biased but that's the facts.
Yeh it seems like you have good turn-outs in Qld. I think events like Classic Dirt have a wider appeal and will always attract more riders, just like the Broadford Bonanza.
For sure mate, Victoria used to be a very healthy VMX state..
Used to be! What is it now?
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Thanks John good read but seems you spent more time on your arse than on the bike . ;D
Thats a laugh coming from a bloke who lets his son do the riding for him.
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I would only get in the way these days Brent , bit like you .
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Is there really a problem Australia wide? National titles, Classic Dirt, State titles and club days in Qld have always attracted large numbers.. I might be biased but that's the facts.
Yeh it seems like you have good turn-outs in Qld. I think events like Classic Dirt have a wider appeal and will always attract more riders, just like the Broadford Bonanza.
For sure mate, Victoria used to be a very healthy VMX state..
Used to be! What is it now?
Going by this and other threads I thought vmx in Vic was suffering, is that not the case?
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There was a decent turn-out at the last round of the VCM champs last year, and I think Viper is firing on all cyl's. Maybe each class could do with a bit of a boost?
I think Viper in Vic will only get stronger now that Pete Gruber is steering things, he's added a non-comp class which I think will bring the boys to the yard (so to speak lol)
Seems racing is ok at State level, wonder why no one wants to travel to the nat's?
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Maybe combining the National Champs with a CD or Bonanza? Plenty of racers and a huge crowd of spectators?
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Now that sounds like a great idea John but how many days would you need .Maybe over easter 4 days ?.
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The only thing that comes to mind is has been ,no sorry never been .
You must be looking in the mirror with that reply.
Reading your replies has me thinking you must have all the answers, pretty negative if you ask me.
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Well I dont remember asking you Grubber.
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We have established Victoria,WA and
vmx friendly tracks with QVMX, BMCC and the Conondale
are healthy states in the mostly dominated pre78 era's..
So John Orchard another question you could ask "is pre90 strong enough all OVER Australia yet" ??
Reasons being its two very different aged family orientated riders/owner,as this has been established before on the forum.
food for thought :)
ps: STOP squabbling you kids >:(
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Vintage Motocross has dropped in numbers over the years, The victoria title 7 rounds series should have never been spilt, and should go back as its original Status. and riders that I have spoken too about this all agree, older & young riders don't bother anymore, they would like to come back if it was a Victorian championship series like it was 15- 20 years ago when the numbers at each meeting where over 100 competitors. Track distances are too far away, there are no juniors and Junior classes to keep this vintage movement going.
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Maybe I'm speaking out of school, but is it possible that a Nats event isn't getting the support needed because state vmx ARE going so well? :-\ in vic Viper has Peter and BigK, the right people now at the helm to make it brilliant, against some peoples thoughts Frank seems to have the members support at VCM, John
Orchard welcomes mod and vintage at all of his Mitchell club practice days, and the CSC still gets reasonable numbers considering its primarily made up of over 45's.
VMX in Victoria at the moment seems to heading in great directions on every front. Maybe....just maybe people feel they're on a pretty good thing at home and don't feel the need to complete at a national level to get their big fix.... :-\ Althogh they're just my humble thoughts.
I do though ask of anyone that wishes to sling shit in the direction of any of the names I've mentioned.......what have you done to improve and/or benefit your sport lately????? Cause these blokes have done PLENTY!!
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Maybe combining the National Champs with a CD or Bonanza? Plenty of racers and a huge crowd of spectators?
John The Bonanza is only 2 days.the format is Pre 75 15 minutes
Pre 80 15 minutes
Pre 85 15 minutes
Side cars 15 minute
Then it all starts again so they get 3 runs AM 3 runs PM both days.
So i don't think 150 plus riders would be too happy if you tried to Join
in that weekend when as for some of them it's there Ones a year Ride..
But your idea of running it at Broadford make sense good track good
Camping...Queens Birthday perhaps...Nearly in the midle of all states
to get two..
The Stig
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I cannot see that being the reason as go back a few years ago and Viper and Vmx was huge , you could not compere numbers to what is out their now .I still think it has something to do with the split .Most have a classic and post classic bike and choose witch event to do. To expensive to do both .
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Yeah and fools like you did nothing to help
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Back to gobing off Andy ,Well like i once said we will catch up ,you shouldn"t be to hard to find just need to lock for the little four eyed F$&@ .
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You need to get off the pian killers , have never read so much B#&% S#!@ in all my life.
John requested that "if anyone wants to bitch, start your own thread" so why have you gone out of your way to stir up shit? The point being was made to solicit thought's on where things are at in the sport at a National level and all we get is you attacking people with a mass of diatribe.
As a once great moto-crosser said "dude, you've got some serious issues you need to sort out with yourself"
Back to gobing off Andy ,Well like i once said we will catch up ,you shouldn"t be to hard to find just need to lock for the little four eyed F$&@ .
The last time a thread like this escalated, someone's mum had to come to the rescue of the recalcitrant child, albeit a little to late for the family's standing in the motocross fraternity.
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Was i the one who started gobbing off was i. Grant as per usual you jump in cause shit and then make threats to people.Instead of slinging shit offer some constructive thoughts and stop threatening ppl.
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O thats no threat
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What upsets me is when you have a person on the MV board suggesting to pull away from MA . That is going to help isint it .
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Why not just say that in the first place instead of giving John grief. You get your point across then without getting ppl backs up
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Started out well... as I might have mentioned on another thread.. degenerates to picking on the person ..rather than the subject...all too easy on many forums.. I think I can hear the dumbgeon door opening... :o
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I would only get in the way these days Brent , bit like you .
That must be a poor attempt at a stir. Im older than you yet I have been competing against your son. ::)
I dont pretend to be A 53 year old MrMX but I have trophied at every event except for 2 with bike breakdowns for the last 2 years. Whats your record?
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John judging by your Post it is clear you have plenty race experience , it has lots of merit . like you, I have held a full national and international licence for many years . Like a few other people with the love for old bikes , we get together and ride now on private properties . No hassles , no trophies, no politics , just camping , riding and fun for all .
That's exactly what Classic Dirt is..
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I think thats the way its going
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John judging by your Post it is clear you have plenty race experience , it has lots of merit . like you, I have held a full national and international licence for many years . Like a few other people with the love for old bikes , we get together and ride now on private properties . No hassles , no trophies, no politics , just camping , riding and fun for all .
That's exactly what Classic Dirt is..
and maybe thats the answer..
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Maybe its getting to serious
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You need to get off the pian killers , have never read so much B#&% S#!@ in all my life.
I told you start your own thread
in other words forkoff you are getting in the way
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John when you talk about healthy. Do mean that in terms of number followers , restorers , collectors or does that only include licensed Racers ?
Sorry for the delay in answering; had to take the Missus shopping :-) I mean numbers in the way of competitors.
When I suggested moving away from MA, I wasn't condoning it, it was probably more for MA's benefit to smarten their act up and help & support national Championships rather than making it harder for them. But roadracing has had to have a break-away controlling body in the AASA, if MA doesn't watch themselves I can see AASA taking a slice from motocross, especially with a motocross track at Winton ( a track that supports the AASA).
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Well no more from me but someone from MA is going to be explaining to me what a MV board member is doing suggesting that VMX pulls out of MA.
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There's still plenty of people that like to race but like i said in another thread with QVMX, Brisbane MCC and Conondale club days we can get our fix with so many local races on good tracks within a couple of hours from home. A lot of guys are content with that instead of travelling interstate for the Nationals..
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I wouldn't read into anything too much about where VMX is ATM . The lack of entries for the PC nats is obviously dissapointing for all concerned .
I think it all comes down to $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ money is tight ATM for most people so recreation and sport are usually the first to slow down.
I used to be able to get across 2 or 3 times a year to race inc the nats and CD but over the last couple of years things have become tight. Our regular visitors from Aus to our events are also feeling the pinch, as Johnny O said VMX is still strong in QLD and Tossa said its all good in WA . Not so much has been said about the other states but you guys would know if there has been a general decline in numbers at local events but i suspect not.
People will have to cut back travelling to the bigger events , its no reflection on the events but just a case of only so may $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to go round.
We have been experiencing a downturn in numbers for the last couple of years (we have been in recession a bit longer than you ) and when you talk to people they are still passionate about VMX but its those $$$ again.
Everything goes in cycles and the economies must come right again sooner or later and when they do i think we will see an upsurge in VMX again .
What you have in Australia is IMHO a bloody good template for all VMX events .
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Ok , now we are talking again . That brings me to the next question . To be classed as a VMX brother , do you have to race ?
Or are you still classed a VMX enthusiast if you just like to put around for the sake of memories ?
Surely there isn't a defined line that separates the racers from the put-around chaps, I probably fit in about half way, I try to ride as fast as I can but it is also important to me to match the period for memories sake.
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Really I don't see why there can't be two tracks utilised at the Bonanza, one for the non-comp rider and one for the races, I think it could bring in even more paying spectators?
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So do i John great idea
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It aint broke and niether is VDT, as TM Bill said its more economic issues today.
Involvement is and should always be open to anyone at any level even if you don't race yourself.
To suggest anything else is ludicrous.
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Really I don't see why there can't be two tracks utilised at the Bonanza, one for the non-comp rider and one for the races, I think it could bring in even more paying spectators?
I don't think it would work John the cost for Insurance / Permit fees
between the 2 is a fair bit going on what has been said early in this
tread..
Plus the weekend is Pre 85 Exibition events..
I don't think the MX boys would be too keen to give up there track...
The Stig.
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These threat start off with good thoughts and suggestion to help the sport prosper and then it turns to shit, and I can see why people walk away and don't come back, John you are onto something
There are members in our club CSC that don`t want to race anymore, all they would like to do is go to a place like a paddock or broadford and just have a ride on their bikes without the fuss, and the high cost.
Stick to guns John and don`t listen to a lot of these wankers on this forum, and some of us are also looking into that, we also have a few land option in the making.
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Very difficult to compare state to state. Really vmx in Qld is a brisbane based population. (Spent a decade in the Whitsunday's and really there are only a handful dotted in Gladstone, Mackay, Prossy, Townsville. Would imagine WA is the same being Perth based. NSW is a different story with many riders all over the place. While Vic looks small on a map but travel from Frankston to Mortlake isn't just round the corner. Each state has its own geographical unique situations that mimic many other sport problems. Look at the National Basketball League 14 teams a decade ago, 7 next year as Townsville Crocs went belly up last week. Times are lean, ride when and where you can afford and enjoy. My interest based in pre78 mx and dirt track/speedway, feel the post classic situation is a shame and perhaps we need to via our clubs lobby MA to make all fees easier for Classics as it is a recreation based sport not one where riders are trying to escalate to the international stage.
Rosco86
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Ok , now we are talking again . That brings me to the next question . To be classed as a VMX brother , do you have to race ?
Or are you still classed a VMX enthusiast if you just like to put around for the sake of memories ?
If you aren't then there is something real wrong with the communities mindset .
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I think broadford is in a very good position, rider can meet every month if they wish toot at the dirt track or speedway, or motocross track or road race track just to have a ride, no racing just a fun day out. It has a lot to offer, 2 hour drive for me, Avalon is also another venue that could be used for speedway, 30 min from melbourne. Rallycross at Calder could be another venue (Just a thought)
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Whether you like to race or not it should make any difference, I have been racing motocross from 1972, just because I have not race for a long time doesn't make me any different, racing is not on my high priority list,
and all we would like to do is meet a natural terrain paddock, with a small or large group of same minded people and have some fun with out the bullshit and cost, But in saying all that, Boardford complex could easily hold a race meeting of any description at a HBBB easter weekend. They just need the volunteers to support.
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I was going to start another thread but will take the time to use this one to put forward what are my comments.
After reading the thread on the Post Vintage nats I think most people need to rethink things and the way events are run and put forward. In business we would look at the product we have and taylor it to suit the times and what the guidelines are as set by the governing body.
So I looked at the MA GCR'S re Australian championships and less I am missing something do not see a set guideline to running the event (outside of the MA flag and logos??)
Now NSW is not the bigest supporter of the post vintage movement, please don't get up in arms that is fact (I have backround to this so PM me if you want to gripe), so to put on an event over three days with a below average number of base supporters is always going to be hard. Add to that the format of approx 17 minute heat races spread over three days and you have lost another fair percentage of riders that may have travelled.
I see on the thread for Post vintage the numbers are at 71 so in my mind that is still not a bad turn out. well yes for a three day event but not for a one day event. (I can here the shouting now ONE DAY EVENT FOR AN AUSSIE TITLE), well why not? run races concurrent for the age groups (or just dont run at all) as say over / under 50 and 3 x 10 minute races. you can arrive Saturday PM set up, race Sunday (including practice) and drive home Sunday night / Monday morning. Cost is down for everyone, action is up as all is in one day and the best of the best will still win. Seems to work for the American AMA? Remember it is a national title and not a get together we already have two events like that on the calender so a title should be a get on with the show approach.
I think we also need to look at the state sub-commitees to put forward guidelines as to the running of VMX events and this will take some of the problems out of the event, a national standard for the event. also maybe a expressions of interest on the MA website (could be done as an email alert) so clubs like the Lakes are better informed as to a preceived number that WILL attend and not the hey Shit I will enter response of the Forum people.
Times are tuff people I can atest to that as my business sales are down 30% and my work hours are up 30% to try and keep afloat, so like it or not numbers will be down and people will choose to stay more local in their approach to racing.
We need to taylor thinks for the times and not just have events fall on their arse year after year. If the event was a one day event I for one would reconsider running, who else??
Regards
Shane Wilson
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Agreed Shane, thanks.
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agree..
Classic titles are a whole different ball game to mx titles and this needs to be recognized with all those MA persons/scb and hosting clubs organising one.
Three days in three years time for sure,but not yet.
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I agree - my stance has always been, and risking pissing off the racers again, VMX is different (to state the obvious) with a SIGNIFICANT number of people in for the "lifestyle/atmosphere" as opposed to sheepstations - isn't that why CD and HBBB are so successful. Maybe a Titles even for us is not needed - will be for tHE 5% of us that are at the pointy end but many others of us (maybe) feel it is geting too serious and expensive so will do as I so regularly get told to do and go to a social event rather than a race event - but leaves the race event to be economical/successful/up there with a very smallr acer base? VMXWA is an extremely successful club - don't race for points, don't have annual titles just get out and enjoy whever you are.
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I was going to start another thread but will take the time to use this one to put forward what are my comments.
After reading the thread on the Post Vintage nats I think most people need to rethink things and the way events are run and put forward. In business we would look at the product we have and taylor it to suit the times and what the guidelines are as set by the governing body.
So I looked at the MA GCR'S re Australian championships and less I am missing something do not see a set guideline to running the event (outside of the MA flag and logos??)
Now NSW is not the bigest supporter of the post vintage movement, please don't get up in arms that is fact (I have backround to this so PM me if you want to gripe), so to put on an event over three days with a below average number of base supporters is always going to be hard. Add to that the format of approx 17 minute heat races spread over three days and you have lost another fair percentage of riders that may have travelled.
I see on the thread for Post vintage the numbers are at 71 so in my mind that is still not a bad turn out. well yes for a three day event but not for a one day event. (I can here the shouting now ONE DAY EVENT FOR AN AUSSIE TITLE), well why not? run races concurrent for the age groups (or just dont run at all) as say over / under 50 and 3 x 10 minute races. you can arrive Saturday PM set up, race Sunday (including practice) and drive home Sunday night / Monday morning. Cost is down for everyone, action is up as all is in one day and the best of the best will still win. Seems to work for the American AMA? Remember it is a national title and not a get together we already have two events like that on the calender so a title should be a get on with the show approach.
I think we also need to look at the state sub-commitees to put forward guidelines as to the running of VMX events and this will take some of the problems out of the event, a national standard for the event. also maybe a expressions of interest on the MA website (could be done as an email alert) so clubs like the Lakes are better informed as to a preceived number that WILL attend and not the hey Shit I will enter response of the Forum people.
Times are tuff people I can atest to that as my business sales are down 30% and my work hours are up 30% to try and keep afloat, so like it or not numbers will be down and people will choose to stay more local in their approach to racing.
We need to taylor thinks for the times and not just have events fall on their arse year after year. If the event was a one day event I for one would reconsider running, who else??
Regards
Shane Wilson
Valid points but three months too late. Lakes club TAILORED the event to our wishes at the time with exception of a three day event and lack of camping. I will add that maybe race length should be reflected in age. Younger age class more, older less.
I agree - my stance has always been, and risking pissing off the racers again, VMX is different (to state the obvious) with a SIGNIFICANT number of people in for the "lifestyle/atmosphere" as opposed to sheepstations - isn't that why CD and HBBB are so successful. Maybe a Titles even for us is not needed - will be for tHE 5% of us that are at the pointy end but many others of us (maybe) feel it is geting too serious and expensive so will do as I so regularly get told to do and go to a social event rather than a race event - but leaves the race event to be economical/successful/up there with a very smallr acer base? VMXWA is an extremely successful club - don't race for points, don't have annual titles just get out and enjoy whever you are.
the last two nationals entries say that there is a want for title events. Socials do social events, racers do racer events and some cross over both ways. To say only 5% want to race is more your perspective. Thing is that even at a race event there is still a social vibe which makes it appealing as well.
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geting too serious and expensive
So is Christmas but we still do it :P
Its a National Title...the best of the best 8)
Its tradition and if we all though we'd be mid pack no one would even enter..
I loved seeing you all dressed up ready to kill ;D
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Brad - the last 2 Nats had a very different perspective and a lot more "consideration" for catering the "overall" majority than the current prospect. And of course it is my perspective - I said that - and of course as a racer I thought you might disagree - also said that. You are a dedicated racer that will even to overseas to race - the vast majority - and that is a fact - are not in the same boat. It appears the social meet numberss are good/increasing - Titles maybe not so?
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Ali - ta - always knew you were a perve ;D mate - when the choice comes, maybe because of distance, availability of requried meetings at home, cost or type of event people will, and obviously are, making decisions as to what to attend. From WA - if you could only do one meet - would you choose CD/HBBB or Nats? I loved going to the Nats - but the format changed, didn't suit me so helped with my decision as to which one to drop - thats all I am getting at - if a format becomes too much for the smaller minority the impact on the majority can be excessive?
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Brad, I must have missed the mail out or email, they may have tailored it to what you like but with a lack of numbers you are not speaking for the majority. it is not a dig at anyone but fact, how about you stick you hand up for a state committee role (this is not a dig) you have good genuine ideas and a focus on VMX racing.
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Brad, I must have missed the mail out or email, they may have tailored it to what you like but with a lack of numbers you are not speaking for the majority. it is not a dig at anyone but fact, how about you stick you hand up for a state committee role (this is not a dig) you have good genuine ideas and a focus on VMX racing.
Why do I have to stick my hand up? You need to go through the 40 pages of the classic nationals thread again as the questions were asked by the people putting on the meeting and plenty of people put up their opinions. So they put on an event with forum members input only to not be supported. Then after the fact they should have done this and that. You didn't need a mail out to be part of that process. It was unfolding right in front of you.
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Brad, the forum? if they put on an event based on comments made on here then it was doomed to start with.
So lets look forward and not back. that is what my post was all about.
who are the current state committee members for vintage??
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Instead of listening to all the Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda's on here all you have to do is look back at the format used for last years Classic Nats in Qld with a record number of entries.
2 days, 10 min moto's and camping at the track= 160+ entries. And the Classic side of vmx has LESS competitiors week in and week out compared to Post Classic.
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YES
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Brad, the forum? if they put on an event based on comments made on here then it was doomed to start with.
So lets look forward and not back. that is what my post was all about.
How are the current state committee members for vintage??
Instead of listening to all the Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda's on here all you have to do is look back at the format used for last years Classic Nats in Qld with a record number of entries.
2 days, 10 min moto's and camping at the track= 160+ entries. And the Classic side of vmx has LESS competitiors week in and week out compared to Post Classic.
True and true.
In theory a forum can be a great place to share ideas etc but reality is that too many only race here...
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"2 days"
not to dim rose coloured glasses, but last year scrutineering was on the friday before so for those travelling, it still ment three day event.
and Conondale we ended up having 2 lap races on the sunday due to time constrants
And yes it is interesting that pre 78 and earlier, while not so active at club level seems to come alive at the nationals.
and I think . as has been mentioned earlier that state or club racing is doing quite well and people do not feel the need to travel to get their VMX fix.
Noel
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I'm in strong agreement with STW's comments.
Is it fair to say that - as a general rule - the Nationals run by clubs without a strong background in VMX have been those that have struggled, while those run by clubs with experience in VMX have been popular and well supported by the VMX community? Based on what I've seen in the last seven years, the unsuccessful 2012 PCMX Nats is the only exception...
I'm thinking out loud here, but maybe there's some unstated expectations and/or marketing nuances that are missed by the clubs without VMX experience?
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I would not have said Crystal Brook was a club with a strong background in VMX but had strong support from Freaky
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"2 days"
not to dim rose coloured glasses, but last year scrutineering was on the friday before so for those travelling, it still ment three day event.
and Conondale we ended up having 2 lap races on the sunday due to time constrants
And yes it is interesting that pre 78 and earlier, while not so active at club level seems to come alive at the nationals.
and I think . as has been mentioned earlier that state or club racing is doing quite well and people do not feel the need to travel to get their VMX fix.
Noel
Noel I turned up at last years qld nats on the Saturday morning and had my bikes scrutineered along with many other riders. Scrutineering was available Friday but you didn't have to be there.
Conondale was before the split, that's why there has been a split.
No rose coloured glasses needed...
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yes and you could have done that at lakes
but how would it have gone if 164 riders with multiple bikes turned up for scrutineering sat morning
yes I know conondale was before the split and last year was Classic not post classic so we are not really comparing like events
Noel
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Noel practice at Lakes was on the Friday, you had to be there Friday. Practice at Classic nats last year was Saturday. It is possible to run the titles over 2 days, we did it last year.
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I still say valid points but why after the fact? This should have been thrashed out ages ago. But then again nothing on this forum can be taken seriously? So even this thread? By the likes of guys like Noel, Nathan, John and Shane ? All are very active in the racing community....
It's a bloody shame when a title event falls over and I'm still frustrated about it all. And Im embarrassed for Vmx as a sport.
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I would not have said Crystal Brook was a club with a strong background in VMX but had strong support from Freaky
That's sort of what I was getting at - what did Freaky, and Donny T at Coffs do differently to Lakes and the Broadford club (sorry, club name forgotten)?
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I still say valid points but why after the fact? This should have been thrashed out ages ago. But then again nothing on this forum can be taken seriously? So even this thread? By the likes of guys like Noel, Nathan, John and Shane ? All are very active in the racing community....
It's a bloody shame when a title event falls over and I'm still frustrated about it all. And Im embarrassed for Vmx as a sport.
I had my say months ago in the lead up to this event but my comments were buried by people with big mouths, little experience and probably no intention of competing.
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I was going to start another thread but will take the time to use this one to put forward what are my comments.
After reading the thread on the Post Vintage nats I think most people need to rethink things and the way events are run and put forward. In business we would look at the product we have and taylor it to suit the times and what the guidelines are as set by the governing body.
So I looked at the MA GCR'S re Australian championships and less I am missing something do not see a set guideline to running the event (outside of the MA flag and logos??)
Now NSW is not the bigest supporter of the post vintage movement, please don't get up in arms that is fact (I have backround to this so PM me if you want to gripe), so to put on an event over three days with a below average number of base supporters is always going to be hard. Add to that the format of approx 17 minute heat races spread over three days and you have lost another fair percentage of riders that may have travelled.
I see on the thread for Post vintage the numbers are at 71 so in my mind that is still not a bad turn out. well yes for a three day event but not for a one day event. (I can here the shouting now ONE DAY EVENT FOR AN AUSSIE TITLE), well why not? run races concurrent for the age groups (or just dont run at all) as say over / under 50 and 3 x 10 minute races. you can arrive Saturday PM set up, race Sunday (including practice) and drive home Sunday night / Monday morning. Cost is down for everyone, action is up as all is in one day and the best of the best will still win. Seems to work for the American AMA? Remember it is a national title and not a get together we already have two events like that on the calender so a title should be a get on with the show approach.
I think we also need to look at the state sub-commitees to put forward guidelines as to the running of VMX events and this will take some of the problems out of the event, a national standard for the event. also maybe a expressions of interest on the MA website (could be done as an email alert) so clubs like the Lakes are better informed as to a preceived number that WILL attend and not the hey Shit I will enter response of the Forum people.
Times are tuff people I can atest to that as my business sales are down 30% and my work hours are up 30% to try and keep afloat, so like it or not numbers will be down and people will choose to stay more local in their approach to racing.
We need to taylor thinks for the times and not just have events fall on their arse year after year. If the event was a one day event I for one would reconsider running, who else??
Regards
Shane Wilson
Great comments Shane and very constructive.
It is so easy in hind sight to say should have, could have and not for one minute do I want my comments in this post to be seen as any criticism of TLMBC. The club and its people have to be admired to have done what they have so far.
On the other hand, rather than VMX needing a refresh, perhaps as eluded to by many, it is the mix of these events which does. There is I believe a healthy community of guys out there who love old dirt bikes and if you get the mix right for an event, they will turn up in droves.
It seems there is a checklist of requirements you have to tick off for a VMX event to be successful though. While the common interest we all have is the Vintage Dirt Bikes, how we want to enjoy that interest is quite diverse. Reading through these threads, here is my take on the ideal event mix.
Racers, Riders and Race Fans
Some of us are all 3 but there are many who these days were a racer back in the day but these days want to have a ride now and then, maybe race the occasional club day and enjoy watching the guys who still want to race hard. Putting time constraints aside, I'll address that in a minute, if the event could provide a ride for the guys who just want a ride ( as in Classic Dirt) and also have the title races on for the guys who want to race them, then you would be getting the best of both worlds.
Camping at the venue
I think it is obvious to all that this is a huge issue both for the experience and to minimize cost. The events we go to which have a nice camping area are so much more enjoyable for that experience.
The Split
While I understand why this happened, the more people I talk to, it seems with the GFC thrown in the timing might have been wrong and perhaps other options would have been a better choice.
a 3 Day event
One of the allures of VMX is it isn't as intense and cut throat as racing felt back in the day and many more decisions are based on what suits the riders, not on what the governing body dictates. It makes sense to have an extra day for scrutineering and practice but for travelers, perhaps there should be a provision made for then early on the Saturday.
So, in the constructive spirit of why I believe this thread was started, and to offer an alternative to current thinking, here is an idea to put out there. I know it would take a lot more organising, but its global appeal to all VMX enthusiasts might make the rewards worth the effort.
Taking a venue like the Complex at Canberra, reserve one of the many long weekends we have in this country and run a 3 day event which offers the best of the events we now enjoy. The reason I pick Canberra is because there are 2 tracks, but any national highway accessible venue with a good camping ground where there were 2 tracks or a VMX friendly temporary 2nd natural terrain track could be set up would work.
On one track, have it open for social riding only and perhaps some low key, 4 lap support races, maybe even some races for the kids or at least some long sessions for kids only to zip around. Doing this would add the all important family fun element into the event. You could also invite the bike manufacturers to bring test bikes for riders to try out as Suzuki does at the CD events.
On the other track, run the National Title Races.
Riders could choose to race or ride the other track and watch the title races.
On the Saturday night, have a huge CampQuet, (Camping Banquet) and some entertainment. Perhaps even a Vintage Parts auction as well where all riders could bring their parts and bikes for sale.
Called something like a National VMX Championship Carnival an event like this might offer enough to have something for VMX enthusiasts of all kinds.
I personally think something along these lines would be a natural progression for the organisors of the CD events to keep the event fresh and at the forefront of the VMX calendar, combine forces with a hosting club and put on the complete VMX experience.
One can only dream...
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As I said earlier copy a format that worked last year, there is no need to re invent the wheel.
Qld classic Nats was 2 days, 10 min motos and camping at the track. There are more classes in the classic side than post classic so will be easier to fit in over 2 days.
Blaming the split is rubbish there are less classic bikes regularly racing than post classic.
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I would not have said Crystal Brook was a club with a strong background in VMX but had strong support from Freaky
That's sort of what I was getting at - what did Freaky, and Donny T at Coffs do differently to Lakes and the Broadford club (sorry, club name forgotten)?
Nath if you remember Coffs was a pre 78 back Nats and was run over 3 days , while it was a good event there was a lot of hurry up and wait ::) and it could have easily been run over 2 days .
Also i cant speak for others but back then i had a shit load more expendible income even though i was then supporting 4 kids ( now just one at home ) and im still in the same job ???
The GFC is definetly a factor for me and has slowed down my travelling to events, i wouldn't have entered the PC nats anyway as its not my thing ,but if i was a bit more financial i would have gone to support mates.
The split was a good thing , proven by the succsess of the earlier nats. Maybe the PC nats need the classes condensing into one EVO all in open class, one Pre 85 all in open class and one Pre 90 all in open class plus sidecars until it can support capacity and age classes.
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A bit of food for thought , call my crazy . There some people calling for longer races , some for shorter races . Its impossible to please everybody . I have ridden the same(as a modern then) bike in the eighties in the actual championships and now again as a classic in pre 85 . I feel I qualify to put an idea forward .
The tracks are definitely not the same
Some of the bikes are not the same either …..
We can not win now, and think we are as good as Harry Everts , we can not turn back the clock . Any racing with a turned back clock is lacking something . The best example is period 3.4+5 in road racing . No Triumph then reved more than 7.5 K(not for long anyway ;D ) and today they go past 9K . figure that out . Honda 750 could never fitted with 1982 Boldor cranks bringing them to 1200cc . And so it goes on . My answer to all this is , don’t make it a race .Have riding sessions of 30 minutes, no confusing age classes . With todays transponders we can see who had the fastest lap time , but let that be only side product . I bet you that would bring back a few that wouldn’t race anymore . I guess it would become closer to CD , the lap times still mentioned , more show and socialising between the 30 minute motos . It would also eliminate age classes , because if you want to slow down , you slow down . And if you want to chase Dean Burt you can . The real history was written in the years of the bike and not now . We only celebrate those times. Then we only ride something we have a connection to and the” gun” riders that buy into older classes just for the win would have to re evaluate . What do you think ?
I don't know wasp, I see where you are coming from but I think most of us are racing just because we can. I am racing now purely for one reason, because I still enjoy it, I'm not trying to relive the past. Yes, I raced back in the day but that was then, this is now and I am just doing more of something I found fun. Add to that the side benefits of meeting great new people, camping, seeing this great country and keeping myself in shape. Although not enough to run a National Championship, there were 76 of us who entered so I am not alone. I do think it might be time for the event organisers to try some different ideas to appeal to the broader audience in the one event though. It is obvious looking at the CD and HBBB type events there are many out there. I would imagine that one commonality we have apart from our love of old dirt bikes is for the most part we are still race fans and if a Championship weekend had some of the key ingredients of a CD event and there was some racing to watch, those who don't want to race would enjoy watching them.
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TM Bills idea of 2 days and less classes may be on to something while we are in hard financial times,then when established and times are better make a bit bigger?
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A bit of food for thought , call my crazy . There some people calling for longer races , some for shorter races . Its impossible to please everybody . I have ridden the same(as a modern then) bike in the eighties in the actual championships and now again as a classic in pre 85 . I feel I qualify to put an idea forward .
The tracks are definitely not the same
Some of the bikes are not the same either …..
We can not win now, and think we are as good as Harry Everts , we can not turn back the clock . Any racing with a turned back clock is lacking something . The best example is period 3.4+5 in road racing . No Triumph then reved more than 7.5 K(not for long anyway ;D ) and today they go past 9K . figure that out . Honda 750 could never fitted with 1982 Boldor cranks bringing them to 1200cc . And so it goes on . My answer to all this is , don’t make it a race .Have riding sessions of 30 minutes, no confusing age classes . With todays transponders we can see who had the fastest lap time , but let that be only side product . I bet you that would bring back a few that wouldn’t race anymore . I guess it would become closer to CD , the lap times still mentioned , more show and socialising between the 30 minute motos . It would also eliminate age classes , because if you want to slow down , you slow down . And if you want to chase Dean Burt you can . The real history was written in the years of the bike and not now . We only celebrate those times. Then we only ride something we have a connection to and the” gun” riders that buy into older classes just for the win would have to re evaluate . What do you think ?
if a Championship weekend had some of the key ingredients of a CD event and there was some racing to watch, those who don't want to race would enjoy watching them.
Your describing the Pre 78 nats ;)
Good numbers ,good racing ,very social (read camping )and nobody taking themselves to seriously or believing that they need long races ( personally i like long races but its a nats for everybody ) or sky shot jumps to prove anything ;)
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TM Bills idea of 2 days and less classes may be on to something while we are in hard financial times,then when established and times are better make a bit bigger?
I've been saying 2 days for 5 months on here, and with 10 min motos you can fit all the classes in to 2 days and also have camping at the track. Sure 15 min moto's would be nice but something's gotta give to fit it into 2 days.
They are the main reasons people who normally race all the time have given me for not entering.
Times are tough, keep it simple and cheaper where possible.
There is no need to complicate it with thousands of theories on why entries didn't pour in.
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As I said earlier copy a format that worked last year, there is no need to re invent the wheel.
Qld classic Nats was 2 days, 10 min motos and camping at the track. There are more classes in the classic side than post classic so will be easier to fit in over 2 days.
Blaming the split is rubbish there are less classic bikes regularly racing than post classic.
Good post.
Problem is this will again get buried with all these 'great' ideas about reinventing the wheel. All the experts come rushing back out with lots to say. A three day event and being able to camp certainly are issues but did you or I not enter because if it? No, because in the end it really is just an excuse. I was organising accommodation and putting feelers out to others to share to keep the cost down and also would have left as late as possible and returned ASAP to lose a little work time as possible.
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Quote from: JohnnyO on Today at 10:35:48 AM
As I said earlier copy a format that worked last year, there is no need to re invent the wheel.
Qld classic Nats was 2 days, 10 min motos and camping at the track. There are more classes in the classic side than post classic so will be easier to fit in over 2 days.
Blaming the split is rubbish there are less classic bikes regularly racing than post classic.
Good post.
Problem is this will again get buried with all these 'great' ideas about reinventing the wheel. All the experts come rushing back out with lots to say. A three day event and being able to camp certainly are issues but did you or I not enter because if it? No, because in the end it really is just an excuse. I was organising accommodation and putting feelers out to others to share to keep the cost down and also would have left as late as possible and returned ASAP to lose a little work time as possible.
Me too, don't fix what don't need fixin'. Worms and the other 15 minute moto bretheren will be sticking pins in their Johnny O dolls but it's the best way of producing an event to suit the majority without un needed drastic changes.
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pins,
I have always said longer races for national titles but i have also argued that we needed a difinition from MA what consitutes a race as well, the split was to enable clubs to run the event over a shorter time frame and give the punters more lap time, you cant expect the movement to split evenly and when you have someone like Col driving the classic side of things it's always going to have a better outcome, no-one is really matching Col from the post classic side yet, but it will happen, I hope. how we go forward is for everyone to realise it will go forward, 80 entries is not good but if it was run by a smaller club would it of gone ahead, who knows? it's needs to go back to club level and be driven from there like Col has for the older bikes, someone has to take a leaf out of his book. I think the first step would be to run the Classic and post Classic alternate years, that way we would all buget for 1 major event each year and it would appeal to wider group who might endulge in both classic and post classic machines.
I cant race 15 minutes anymore , but I sure can ride for 15 minutes. To can 15 minute motos before they get a chance at National Title level beggars belief. lets go back to 3 lap races then, that will solve everything
cheers Worms
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I dont think CMX needs a re-vamp, maybe a minor tweek here and there. Conondale was a great meeting, and illustrated the strength overall in our sport. It also showed all the classes couldnt be run at one event, paticularly as the push for Pre90 was on.
This was a major catalyst driving the "split proposal"
Chrystal Brook was also a great success, but raced over three full days with an interesting format.
By 2012 the "split" was in the rule book and we were able to cater for all Classic classes, guarantying the Pre60 and Pre65 would not be combined and age groups,ladies class etc would be catered for. The result was a record entry (without Evo, Pre85 and Pre90),every bike class had championship status, and all age classes above 40yrs likewise.
The "split has been a resounding success from a Classic viewpoint. I gave the stats in a post in the Competition thread.
Without the "split" I doubt the Pre90 class would have been adopted, you wouldnt have age grouping in Evo, and there wouldnt be scope for longer races on tracks more suitable ror the later bikes (which seemed a feature wanted by the "post classic riders)
It remains for the Post Classic riders to get behind any organiser game to take the financial risk, monumental volunteer effort etc that goes into an event like this.
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Well I think most of you are tunnel vision on racing and winning which be fine, but that not the only thing vmx is about and why it grow so quickly like it did when first started.
There are to any race meeting on over the 12 month calendar, Now, (VMX IS) about reliving the past and what we rode back then, the bike we would have like to own and couldn't, The bikes we raced and owned what money could buy. Racing vintage motocross is about the bikes, riding gear of the era, past champions and the Tracks that we all rode on, its our memories to share with new and old friends who we rode against. Vintage racing is not about winning Australian titles or a club vmx meeting, taking home trophies, EtC, EtC. You need to change the way you think about this sport, if not, it will dry up and we will have nothing.
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Geez, watch out people, Dave's gonna put VMX on ebay.....apparantley it's not a keeper ;D
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DAVEY, its nice to hear from you, where have you been, shooting up with wild bill hick hock. ;D
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Well I think most of you are tunnel vision on racing and winning which be fine, but that not the only thing vmx is about and why it grow so quickly like it did when first started.
There are to any race meeting on over the 12 month calendar, Now, (VMX IS) about reliving the past and what we rode back then, the bike we would have like to own and couldn't, The bikes we raced and owned what money could buy. Racing vintage motocross is about the bikes, riding gear of the era, past champions and the Tracks that we all rode on, its our memories to share with new and old friends who we rode against. Vintage racing is not about winning Australian titles or a club vmx meeting, taking home trophies, EtC, EtC. You need to change the way you think about this sport, if not, it will dry up and we will have nothing.
dude,yer gunna havta stop wearing your heart on your sleeve, :P
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matcho mick, see you got home safe, did you enjoy HBBB. winning & racing not everything. mick.
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Sorry,against my better judgement I just can't let that comment slide by Dave.
Can't remember last time you did a Nats, so other than this forum what qualifies you to forcast the demise of CMX?
The Bonanza and CD provide an excellent outlet for those who dont want to race and many who do.
There are also those who are racers. Its not just about winning (most of us will never win any thing other than maybe an age race) but we are racers.
We ride bikes designed and built to race, so we race them.
I started in 1962 on a rigid 350 BSA, and can honestly say I enjoy the competition, atmosphere and friendships as much now if not more.Ive been racing with Bill Watson for exactly 50 years, and still get a buzz out of lining up with him.
If you had been at any of the Nats over the last 10 years or so youd know how silly your prophesy is. Sure, the social events, Broadford and CD are gaining in popularity and that is great, but so are the Nats. I think Conondale, Chrystal Brook and Wyaralong over the past three years were the biggest on record.Ok, the Post Classic has been slow to support a stand alone Nats, but MY prophesy is 2014 will be huge.
Mate there are big numbers of racers, not many of us winners, who love to race our race bred bikes in the arena they were designed for. The pinnacle of that is the Nationals.
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Well said Col...and in one of your previous posts about "dribble".....8 pages of it so far.....I wonder if it will beat the Suzuki footpeg or alloy swingarm crap.
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My last National meeting was cannondale which I enjoyed very much, this year I plan to ride at the national if all goes well.
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Geez, watch out people, Dave's gonna put VMX on ebay.....apparantley it's not a keeper ;D
Thats bloody funny ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Well I think most of you are tunnel vision on racing and winning which be fine, but that not the only thing vmx is about and why it grow so quickly like it did when first started.
There are to any race meeting on over the 12 month calendar, Now, (VMX IS) about reliving the past and what we rode back then, the bike we would have like to own and couldn't, The bikes we raced and owned what money could buy. Racing vintage motocross is about the bikes, riding gear of the era, past champions and the Tracks that we all rode on, its our memories to share with new and old friends who we rode against. Vintage racing is not about winning Australian titles or a club vmx meeting, taking home trophies, EtC, EtC. You need to change the way you think about this sport, if not, it will dry up and we will have nothing.
what aload of horse manure,
the social side will always be fine.
i thought this post was refering to the Australian national Titles governed by Motorcycling Australia.
what a waste of time
Worms
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The Bonanza and CD provide an excellent outlet for those who dont want to race and many who do.
There are also those who are racers. Its not just about winning (most of us will never win any thing other than maybe an age race) but we are racers.
We ride bikes designed and built to race, so we race them.
I started in 1962 on a rigid 350 BSA, and can honestly say I enjoy the competition, atmosphere and friendships as much now if not more.Ive been racing with Bill Watson for exactly 50 years, and still get a buzz out of lining up with him.
If you had been at any of the Nats over the last 10 years or so youd know how silly your prophesy is. Sure, the social events, Broadford and CD are gaining in popularity and that is great, but so are the Nats. I think Conondale, Chrystal Brook and Wyaralong over the past three years were the biggest on record.Ok, the Post Classic has been slow to support a stand alone Nats, but MY prophesy is 2014 will be huge.
Mate there are big numbers of racers, not many of us winners, who love to race our race bred bikes in the arena they were designed for. The pinnacle of that is the Nationals.
Spot on!
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Well worms, your wrong too.
Does Vmx in Australia need a refresh, the heading said nothing about MA. Vmx needs a refresh, kickstart, go back to the drawing board, bring back the real people who had the vision from the start. Take your hand off it, ;D
Thats what the heading is stating.
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why does it need a refresh then, there's a plenty on non competitive events out there already, so what is your post about, what is your point then Dave, wasn't this post started in relation to the Nationals, or didn't you mean that, bugger if I know what your talking about then.
Worms
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In light of the problem of lack of entries for the 2013 Post Classic MX Champs I thought I'd start this thread, that way nothing can be perceived as having a go at the Lakes Motorcycle Club.
MA
Races
Classes
Age
ok, back to the start just for Dave, 1st line of the topic
worms
?
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I didn't start this thread at all. I am just expressing my feelings, Many years ago I formed a 10 man sub-commissions with MV Motorcycling of Victoria, and we had old clubs throughout Victoria waiting to host a round of the vintage motocross Titles. Since the split it has turned, there are 6-7 club rounds on the east side and 7 club events on the west side of melbourne. to make this sport survive with high numbers of riders turning up it should come back as a 6 round Victorian Vintage Title and cater for all, tracks will need to be long flowing circuits to suit all. There should be a meeting with VCM, CSC, Viper and solve the problem, sect the top 6 tracks in victoria at this present stage and run with them. and lets have some harmony.
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SORRY DAVE!, you called me a wanker because I expressed a view on subject. up yours big fella!
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Thats ok Worms, I didn't personally called you a wanker, is was just an overall General expression, if you know what I mean, sorry if I offended you, I do get a bit frustrated at times with vmx, maybe I need to back off.
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This is going well ::)
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I got to attend the Championships at Crystal brook with a group of other West Aussies. We had a ball, I was bloody hopeless. But had so much fun that i wanted to do it again and will still be hopeless. Did not make it last year, but am well on the way for this year along with a great group of West Aussies. We'll bring our riders with a chance and the rest of us will support, race and party as much as we can, and bloody laugh a lot. It costs a lot to get to the Nats from WA but the feeling here is that it's worth every cent and this year the obligatory container will be delivered followed by a ramshackled mob, who laugh a lot and talk a different language. But we wouldn't miss it for the world. There is nothing better than being involved a real race meet with some top guns and a lot of also rans, who enjoy it just as much as anyone!!! We will wheel bill Watson out place him on his bike, and cheer as he does battle against Col, and hope to have bragging rights, but who damn well cares!!
barry
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I look forward to finally getting to meet you at Canberra Barry. It'll also be an honour to once again see gnarly old Bill Watson and his chequerboard helmet and tricky Husky front up yet again. How old is he these days, he'd have to be mid eighties wouldn't he? Blokes like Bill, Col Metcher, Donny Newell and all of the other superseniors are an inspiration to all the wimpy girly boys (like me) that use age as an excuse not to race motocross. How many of you West Aussies have committed to coming over Tossa?
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at the moment there have been 21 bikes coming over in a container, can fit more yet and probably a few take a holiday and drive over. Even my wife is looking at throwing a sickie so she can come over and take photo's (she's a better photographer than i am rider). Cannot give a figure as per members, but i think the number of bikes already lining up to fit in a container gives you an idea, plus, wives, girlfriends, boyfriends and family that all love to turn up as well. We do not mention the God fathers age, I can call him that now as i have a Husky. But he said one thing to me and that was "Once you stop using it, you loose it" that's why he still rides. He is still the hardest person to pass on the track. If you miss the start and end up behind Bill, forget it.!!lol
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I would not have said Crystal Brook was a club with a strong background in VMX but had strong support from Freaky
That was what I was getting at - and Donny T's input making the Coffs Nats a success.
Modern clubs generally have a good blueprint for running modern meets - tick the boxes and everything will work out.
VMX meets need different boxes to be ticked, and a club that doesn't have a good understanding of the VMX scene will always find it a hard slog.
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evo has age races you wont get away with it ma will insist you have them.classic dirt track mx same rules.
jim
Yes Jim but Nathan doesn't let the facts get in the way of his view. Next year in Yass then ::)
I was suggesting that the rule needs to be changed before the 2014 Nats.
But hey, if it gives Greg a chance to take a pointless, personal swipe, then let's ignore that... ::)
In any case, it doesn't take much forethought to figure out that to get all age races to championship status would require at least sixty riders on Evo bikes, all riding all three classes.
Basically, this would require these Nationals to have more riders to bring Evo bikes than most previous Nats have had riders in total.
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evo has age races you wont get away with it ma will insist you have them.classic dirt track mx same rules.
jim
Yes Jim but Nathan doesn't let the facts get in the way of his view. Next year in Yass then ::)
I was suggesting that the rule needs to be changed before the 2014 Nats.
But hey, if it gives Greg a chance to take a pointless, personal swipe, then let's ignore that... ::)
In any case, it doesn't take much forethought to figure out that to get all age races to championship status would require at least sixty riders on Evo bikes, all riding all three classes.
Basically, this would require these Nationals to have more riders to bring Evo bikes than most previous Nats have had riders in total.
Where do you get that shit from? The 2012 Nats had combined age races with 2 gate drops. What rule needs to be changed now?
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What shit? Re-read what I said, and then let me know how it's relevant to your comment about the 2012 Nats...
Edit in response to your edit:
The age racing should be for (any era up to) the newest era at any PC Nationals, to maximise the chances of anyone being able to participate.
Pre-70 and pre-65 bikes have always been welcome to participate in the age races among the pre-75 bikes.
It's lunacy to complain that you can't get ten bikes in any of the eighteen classes that have been created out of one third of the field...
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The 2012 nats was a roaring success. Col Metcher is the go to guy and has the runs on the board. If not him then someone that has done the same.
Age racing would encourage the older pre75 guys that see the big picture of supporting Vmx and of course the ability to ride against guys in their own age bracket with a chance to earn a title.
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I probably misread your post Nathan. I'm tired of reading everyone's fantastic ideas on how our sport should be changed.
After the success of the last 2 Nats that I've been to at Conondale and Wyaralong I can't see that anything is broken..
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I don't know why you fellows keep bringing the national bit into it, when the question is vmx in Australia, its about refreshing vmx in general, it may be working well in QLD, NSW, WA, but its not working well
in VIC, or S.A, TAS, it needs to be repaired. You fellows are so tunnel vision on your own self importance, look at the big picture., VMX in the lower states are suffering.
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I don't know why you fellows keep bringing the national bit into it, when the question is vmx in Australia, its about refreshing vmx in general, it may be working well in QLD, NSW, WA, but its not working well
in VIC, or S.A, TAS, it need to be repaired. You fellows are so tunnel vision on your own self importance, look at the big picture., VMX in the lower states are suffering.
In light of the problem of lack of entries for the 2013 Post Classic MX Champs I thought I'd start this thread, that way nothing can be perceived as having a go at the Lakes Motorcycle Club.
I think we need to break this issue down into the following categories (feel free to add what you think I have missed).
This is all stuff quickly off the top of my head, I know you all will have some great ideas, if anyone wants to bitch, start your own thread ;-)
Cost
Effort
Support
Advertising
MA
Races
Classes
Age
Prize money / awards
COST
* Number of days racing.
* Entry fees.
* Accommodation at event.
* Distance travelled to the event.
EFFORT
* Getting bike scrutineered.
* Washing bikes at event.
* Size of paddock.
* Closed paddock?
SUPPORT
* Need for assistance by a pit crew.
* Pit boarding area.
* Entry closing date, a period is needed to structure classes.
ADVERTISING
* Sending out printable & emailable promo posters & entry-forms.
* National club register for mail-outs.
* Bike shop (VMX friendly) register for poster & entry-form mail-outs.
MA
Now this could get me in some grief, maybe vmx'ers could look at running outside of MA, could it save the costs of permits & complying with class categories, all this would it make the event more rider friendly and lower the costs greatly?
RACES
* Length of races.
* Minimum entries or no-go.
CLASSES
* combining classes.
* Adding new classes (eg: Super Evo Pre 95?)
* Running non-comp classes, allowing recreation licence holders to ride.
AGE
* Set the eligable machine for age racing by numbers, eg: Keep upping the accepted year models until the field is substantial? If you have to allow modern bikes to get a good field of 60 - 70 year olds so be it.
PRIZE MONEY / AWARDS
* Certificates that can be scanned, laminated, board mounted.
* Not many riders have ever raced for prize money.
* Do not let presentation eat into riding time.
I think it is time to think outside the square and make events as easy, low cost & fun to do, what worked in the past will not work in the future. Maybe this thread will give some constructive ideas to clubs thinking about running events?
You have been shown this once already. This time read the farking thing. This is the first post by the person that started the thread. John speaks about the competition side of vmx. Who's got tunnel vision?
And once again, there are plenty of non competition events to go too. As you are leaning towards the non competition side, when was the last time you attended a Classic Dirt?
Viper members have stated many times that things are all good with their club so who is right, you or them?
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I see viper is advertising on ebay now, thats a good idea selling yourself in that way. thumbs up for them
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I see viper is advertising on ebay now, thats a good idea selling yourself in that way. thumbs up for them
You picked that up quick Dave, good to know the ad gets spotted. Peter.
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I see viper is advertising on ebay now, thats a good idea selling yourself in that way. thumbs up for them
you picked that up quick Dave, good to know the ad gets spotted. Peter.
Spotted pre85mxwa Collie Combined on Gumtree the other day.These days vmx isnt hard to find globaly, no reason to miss an internet search 8)
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Thats a great initiative :) Kens editorial in the lastest VMX mag talks about us not promoting vmx enough to the masses and hes right .
We all need to be proactive in promoting what we love to do and the Viper initative is a bloody good idea .
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The Heaven meeting at Lake Glenbawn 6/7 April. This meeting was an inter-club with Northern District MCC (Pre90 in NSW) we had 90 riders turn up with >97 riders entries. Only 6 of those were juniors.
Pre70 & Pre75 entry was down. This is somewhat normal for this circuit but also a few regulars for those classes were unable to make it for a variety of reasons.
EVO and Pre85 all powers races were over grid with 33 & 31 entries respectively fortunately only 28 & 25 riders fronted for the first races.
So NSW VMX is healthy at club level yet that has not transferred to the PC Nationals? Heaven has ran 15+1lap races at Lakes in the heat last November with good grids (it was an all powers race) and the attrition rate was not massive.
I agree that we need to get the sport more into the main stream MC media just from the point of view of making contact with non VMX riders followers.
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Can i ask what the cost is to ride at a club day for say 2 classes
At our series here we pay $55.00 for one class and $75 for 2 or more classes , that include lunch and as we are not affiliated to anybody there are no licence fees or levies .
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Can i ask what the cost is to ride at a club day for say 2 classes
At our series here we pay $55.00 for one class and $75 for 2 or more classes , that include lunch and as we are not affiliated to anybody there are no licence fees or levies .
$60A ;D for as many classes/bikes as you want, two classes per bike maximum (this is to ensure flaggies) You can only ride in three of the four ERA session and you flag the other.
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At QVMX we charge $55 for a club day, practice days are $30 I think....and you can ride as many bikes as you bring. We had half a dozen big signs made up last year to put out on the roads leading to the track saying "Vintage Motocross Today"....with arrows pointing>.....how many times have you struggled to find a new track?...might be easier now with GPS but it can be a pain in the arse. The bonus with the signs is it pulls in spectators....this is the more positive stuff we should be talking about.
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Forgot to mention the $60 covers a 2 day meeting. Some meetings (3 a year have racing Saturday PM plus Sunday) the other 4-5 meetings each year have free practice Saturday PM but some riders just show up Sunday for the races.
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#1
Observations of a Cyber Racer
Cyber Racers are people too (as opposed to Cyberdyne Racers)
Who entered the 2013 Post Classic titles and who didn’t is irrelevant, looking for someone to blame is a pointless exercise, it will only help to see the whole scene implode further.
Those that didn’t enter don’t need to justify themselves, we only need to know the reasons why they didn’t enter so we can move forward with better ideas.
Looking to blame the forum because its 2000 odd members didn’t want to race is also a pointless exercise.
I still believe the forum is a good place to bounce ideas from, what you do with those ideas though comes back to you.
If a forum member recommends you jump off a cliff and you find yourself waking up at the bottom of a cliff with multiple internal injuries then the problem is how you interpreted and acted on the recommendation, not the recommendation itself.
When someone recommends a brand of spoke kit that fitted up fine and look good then I like to look deeper as to whether or not the spokes have ever been used on a track and for how long.
I’ve seen guys say they like to see bikes raced with original shocks but I note that these guys usually don’t ride.
So you thought the Post Classic Title thread was a big one and because it was a popular thread there would be lots of entries.
Well I went through the thread the other night looking for statistics.
By page 17 in April when it was announced that not many had entered there was only responses from 51 individuals and straight away I can pick 8 of those that never intended to enter, they were just offering input.
This isn’t a swipe at anyone as I am one of the 8
Another 2 have since said they never intended to enter as they were going to work the event.
It’s not like there were hundreds saying they were going to ride this event.
Just because someone makes 10 comments doesn't mean 10 people are going to show up.
The forum is a good place to get exposure and gauge opinions but you must analyze what you read
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I agree Geoff.... only the naive would truly 100% guage the interest in the PC Nats from this forum.
I will say this - my thoughts are that the actual cost of the entry fee would have prevented a few from entering.
I know sending a money order off for almost $300 was a fair slog in the hip pocket. ($150 bike1, $20 2nd bike, $50 for 2x transponders, $77 for licence upgrade...= $297.00 )
On top of this there's the travel and accom costs to boot.
Not sure what can be done there as I only presume MA take a large portion of that.
I'm not going to blame the economy etc - as I believe $300 is a lot in any language.
Hardo.
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just did our state titles (tar) eastern creek,was $450 entry for 1st bike,the promoting club took a fair hit in the hip pocket,but rationale was "we" havn't had state titles for over 5 yrs,i inclined to agree with them :P
you wanna race,you pay the money
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just did our state titles (tar) eastern creek,was $450 entry for 1st bike,the promoting club took a fair hit in the hip pocket,but rationale was "we" havn't had state titles for over 5 yrs,i inclined to agree with them :P
you wanna race,you pay the money
$450!!!! :o :o WOW ... and the promoting club didn't cover their costs? No surprise to be honest as I suspect at that price people stayed away in droves and only the very serious entered.
Wow with all due respect I would never pay that much to race.
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I was told once that the hire fee the ARDC charge for Eastern Creek is $20K per day on a weekend. Non refundable so you race rain, hail or shine.
Go and ride a track day. Same sort of money to ride at a non-competitive event.
Can't really be compared to VMX,MX, DT et al.
Cheers
Shaun
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That GMC bloke is making a lot of sense.
Hardo, the Supp Regs contradicted the entry form regarding transponders for multiple bikes. ;)
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Nathan - please don't compliment or agree with him - geeez!
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#1
Observations of a Cyber Racer
Cyber Racers are people too
So you thought the Post Classic Title thread was a big one and because it was a popular thread there would be lots of entries.
Well I went through the thread the other night looking for statistics.
By page 17 in April when it was announced that not many had entered there was only responses from 51 individuals and straight away I can pick 8 of those that never intended to enter, they were just offering input.
This isn’t a swipe at anyone as I am one of the 8
Another 2 have since said they never intended to enter as they were going to work the event.
It’s not like there were hundreds saying they were going to ride this event.
Just because someone makes 10 comments doesn't mean 10 people are going to show up.
Carefull Geoff I can feel some brains starting hurt already.
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Sorry but I don't agree with some aspects. I'm happy to point the finger and bear the brunt. The nsw guys are letting their own team down. With one week to go there were only thirty entries. None of this is rocket science. It seems that I'm the only one that wants to be the bad guy and say what needs to be said.
Fact: the majority has to come from the local pool of riders as obviously the greater the distance, the less likely one will travel.
Fact: 60 to 70 riders had to come from NSW.
Fact: Both mr Vmx events also had poor numbers.
So you guys don't support your own big events.
From where I'm sitting you guys want to be 'lord of the flies' and race in a club day. I say this as I was talking to someone that was walking through the spectators at mr Vmx looking at all the guys that were heaven members just watching. Saying they didn't want to ride against all the "fast guys".
I really think this should be a wake up call for the nsw Vmx community to get behind these events. They should be bigger than Ben Hur.
Obviously good on the guys that did enter.
I also cannot believe how people talk about the cost of entering and how expensive this and that are in Vmx. Wake up guys! This is a Motorsport. Relate it to ANY OTHER FORM OF MOTOR SPORT. It is the cheapest by far. Go road racing, motarding, enduro, modern mx etc etc. This shit is dirt cheap. Not to mention as cheap or as dear as you want by way of bike you own/purchase.
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Sorry but I don't agree with some aspects. I'm happy to point the finger and bear the brunt. The nsw guys are letting their own team down. With one week to go there were only thirty entries. None of this is rocket science. It seems that I'm the only one that wants to be the bad guy and say what needs to be said.
Fact: the majority has to come from the local pool of riders as obviously the greater the distance, the less likely one will travel.
Fact: 60 to 70 riders had to come from NSW.
Fact: Both mr Vmx events also had poor numbers.
So you guys don't support your own big events.
From where I'm sitting you guys want to be 'lord of the flies' and race in a club day. I say this as I was talking to someone that was walking through the spectators at mr Vmx looking at all the guys that were heaven members just watching. Saying they didn't want to ride against all the "fast guys".
I really think this should be a wake up call for the nsw Vmx community to get behind these events. They should be bigger than Ben Hur.
Obviously good on the guys that did enter.
I also cannot believe how people talk about the cost of entering and how expensive this and that are in Vmx. Wake up guys! This is a Motorsport. Relate it to ANY OTHER FORM OF MOTOR SPORT. It is the cheapest by far. Go road racing, motarding, enduro, modern mx etc etc. This shit is dirt cheap. Not to mention as cheap or as dear as you want by way of bike you own/purchase.
So you're happy to be the bad guy and say what needs to be said, me too ;) Not everyone thinks the way do, not everyone who doesn't do what you do is wrong. Blaming an entire state riding fraternity (again) for something is prob not the greatest way to attempt to make your argument. People have a right to do, think, feel, participate, not participate as they wish, thats just kinda how this life thing works. (well in this great country anyway) ;)
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So you're happy to be the bad guy and say what needs to be said, me too ;) Not everyone thinks the way do, not everyone who doesn't do what you do is wrong. Blaming an entire state riding fraternity (again) for something is prob not the greatest way to attempt to make your argument. People have a right to do, think, feel, participate, not participate as they wish, thats just kinda how this life thing works. (well in this great country anyway) ;)
Yeah for sure. It's obvious I'm fond of what I like and I'm very passionate about Vmx. It goes without saying we can all do what we want. I'm looking at it as a big picture. As a movement. To keep it alive and breathing FFS support these events so as Vmx stays viable.
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Sorry but I don't agree with some aspects. I'm happy to point the finger and bear the brunt. The nsw guys are letting their own team down. With one week to go there were only thirty entries. None of this is rocket science. It seems that I'm the only one that wants to be the bad guy and say what needs to be said.
Fact: the majority has to come from the local pool of riders as obviously the greater the distance, the less likely one will travel.
Fact: 60 to 70 riders had to come from NSW.
Fact: Both mr Vmx events also had poor numbers.
So you guys don't support your own big events.
From where I'm sitting you guys want to be 'lord of the flies' and race in a club day. I say this as I was talking to someone that was walking through the spectators at mr Vmx looking at all the guys that were heaven members just watching. Saying they didn't want to ride against all the "fast guys".
I really think this should be a wake up call for the nsw Vmx community to get behind these events. They should be bigger than Ben Hur.
Obviously good on the guys that did enter.
I also cannot believe how people talk about the cost of entering and how expensive this and that are in Vmx. Wake up guys! This is a Motorsport. Relate it to ANY OTHER FORM OF MOTOR SPORT. It is the cheapest by far. Go road racing, motarding, enduro, modern mx etc etc. This shit is dirt cheap. Not to mention as cheap or as dear as you want by way of bike you own/purchase.
I agree with this statement
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Lakes MBC / Montynut - Just an idea but has anyone at the club thought about notifying all the PC entrants by email about the cancelation? It has been brought to light here that not all the entrants may be forum dwellers and I'd hate to think that someone may travel some distance and turn up to the locked gates on 3rd May. (posted here as the PC thread is locked ;))
Woody
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Lakes MBC / Montynut - Just an idea but has anyone at the club thought about notifying all the PC entrants by email about the cancelation? It has been brought to light here that not all the entrants may be forum dwellers and I'd hate to think that someone may travel some distance and turn up to the locked gates on 3rd May. (posted here as the PC thread is locked ;))
Woody
Pretty sure the level 4 Race Secretary has this under control. :)
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Nathan - please don't compliment or agree with him - geeez!
Careful Rossco lest I start looking for more Collingwood jokes. ;D
One thing about the classics is that the tracks are usually tamer and guys are more comfortable to come out of the woodwork to ride that one big event.
Post classic tends to be a bit more serious in regards to the track so some guys may be thinking “I’m out of my depth here so I will just watch all the fast guys ride”
This may be more the case when longer races and past champions are talked about.
As to the cost of entering, it’s more about the dollar V fun ratio for me.
If I had actually managed to reassemble one of my KX’s then I would have to decide if the $grand to ride would be worth it or would I just ride local events, of which we are spoilt for choice.
Not everyone has that spare grand to enter one event.
Fact: 60 to 70 riders had to come from NSW.
Agreed.
I thought with Heaven and guys like Montynut being involved that the event would have run fine and the fact that Heaven have used this track before was a good sign.
So did the locals know something that the rest of us didn’t?
Question #1
Is the $2200.00 dollar MA fee the same for all Championship events?
If the minibikers have 700 riders turn up that works out to be around $3 a head whereas if the club had got there 120 riders then the MA fee would have been around $18 a head.
Vintage is never going to draw in massive numbers so I think MA has to come to the party and make it more reasonable for clubs to run these events.
Question #2
Does the club have to run every single class that is written in the book?
Surely the clubs can decide which classes they choose to run?
I’ve said it before that I don’t see the reasoning behind having an under 30 age class, these guys have the ‘all in age’ class to ride. Younger guys don’t need segregating from the older guys to give them a chance.
Also running the age class only in Evo I believe was a massive mistake, it should have been pre 90 or at the very least pre 85.
Making the age class’s to suit the least number of entrants makes it very unviable.
This could be another reason why older riders didn’t want to run in pre85 or pre90 if they thought they would be racing younger guys.
It can often be more psychological
What’s the closing date to make submissions on this to MA?
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Also running the age class only in Evo I believe was a massive mistake, it should have been pre 90 or at the very least pre 85.
Making the age class’s to suit the least number of entrants makes it very unviable.
This could be another reason why older riders didn’t want to run in pre85 or pre90 if they thought they would be racing younger guys.
It can often be more psychological
Are you saying that Evo would have the least amount of entrants? If so, it's the opposite.
Evo should have been the biggest class.
All of the 125 classes would have to be combined as they don't get the numbers.
Age group racing should be split into two gate drops. 30-39 and 40-49, then the older guys in the second drop.
I agree that there shouldn't be an under 30's class.
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Question #1
Is the $2200.00 dollar MA fee the same for all Championship events?
If the minibikers have 700 riders turn up that works out to be around $3 a head whereas if the club had got there 120 riders then the MA fee would have been around $18 a head.
Vintage is never going to draw in massive numbers so I think MA has to come to the party and make it more reasonable for clubs to run these events.
The fee for all other forms of National title permit is I believe $4200. VMX has the fee halved due to the hard work of the MA sub-committee. This recognises the split of VMX
Question #2
Does the club have to run every single class that is written in the book?
Surely the clubs can decide which classes they choose to run?
I’ve said it before that I don’t see the reasoning behind having an under 30 age class, these guys have the ‘all in age’ class to ride. Younger guys don’t need segregating from the older guys to give them a chance.
YES They must offer all the classes as writen in the MOMS.
Also running the age class only in Evo I believe was a massive mistake, it should have been pre 90 or at the very least pre 85.
Making the age class’s to suit the least number of entrants makes it very unviable.
Unfortunately the MOMS states EVO and that could not be changed for 2013. It was realised that this was not ideal but there was no alternative
This could be another reason why older riders didn’t want to run in pre85 or pre90 if they thought they would be racing younger guys.
It can often be more psychological
What’s the closing date to make submissions on this to MA?
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Are you saying that Evo would have the least amount of entrants? If so, it's the opposite.
No, I’m saying that there would be a lot of guys having to stand around and watch the Age races because they don’t have a bike with 2 shocks.
The age racing should be available for everyone at the event.
Personally if I was going to race other 50 year olds I wouldn’t care which Era bike they were riding.
Good to hear they are doing double gate drops, I saw this in the USA in 85 and it got through classes a lot quicker
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Brad I think GMC is suggesting that the age races should be based on a later ERA in the Post Classic similiar to the Classic Nationals. Age races at the Classics is Pre75 and Pre75, Pre70, Pre65 and even Pre60 bikes can be entered so that the field draws on a much larger field of entrants. In the PC Nationals using EVO for ages rtaces means that even if 15 EVO 125 enter those 15 need to spit up into possibly 6 age races. If there were 15 EVO 125s, 12 Pre85 125s and 8 Pre90 125s then the 125 age races could draw on an entrant pool of 35 bikes. This is a thing for 2014 possibly
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Yes Monty, that’s my thinking.
I know it couldn’t be done this year but it was something I tried to suggest when the split was first proposed.
How do we submit this to MA?
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Already submitted ;)
I believe submissions closed last month for 2014 MOMS but could be wrong
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I believe submissions closed last month for 2014 MOMS but could be wrong
Correct.
1st March for submissions/changes and 8th March for 2014 Nationals.
Cheers
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Brad, so you're passionate about VMX.... that's great. Pretty sure most of us if not all in here are.
To fob off the cost of entry is to throw your head deep in the sand mate. Whilst you might be walking tall and feeling like it is 'cheap', I'll bet a lot aren't. Myself included.
Comparing to other Motorsports isn't anywhere near the point I was making. I am not that Naive. I was simply pointing out a possible REASON why many may not have entered.
eg: I can enter 5 of the 6 rounds with HEAVEN this year for the price of a one-off entry in the PC Nats.
As has been said we need to canvass all these thoughts to ensure we get the product right in the future.
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Lakes MBC / Montynut - Just an idea but has anyone at the club thought about notifying all the PC entrants by email about the cancelation? It has been brought to light here that not all the entrants may be forum dwellers and I'd hate to think that someone may travel some distance and turn up to the locked gates on 3rd May. (posted here as the PC thread is locked ;))
Woody
I agree, but considering the event was invisible outside of this forum, it's probably not an issue...
VMX247, I've heard nothing official regarding the cancellaton.
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VMX247, I've heard nothing official regarding the cancellaton.
There was a post from Lakes MCC in the original thread saying it was officially over Nathan but I can't seem to find it to provide the link. The thread seems to have disappeared ???
That's all I have seen saying it's over but I would expect the club to be in contact with those that did enter to confirm it.
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The cancellation of the titles has also been posted on Facebook by the Lakes club.
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Maybe it's just me, but I would think that the cancellation of a National Title meeting would warrant some sort of direct contact with the entrants?
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True, an email would be nice..
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so is this the second year in a row for PC national to Cancel.
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I am here to tell you, and any of the other naysayers that this is just growing pains.2014 Post Classics will be big.
Watch this space.
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I like to see Long fast sweeping natural terrain tracks based on the Thumber National meetings back in the 90`s , commendate pre90 classes to pre 80 classes, the riders would love it.
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F----- what is that all about?
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Yes the 78 record was playing but stopped, its on the flip side now, the sounds of music will start playing soon.
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The thread seems to have disappeared ???
look down the competition page :)
:-[ Yep I only looked in the bold text sticky section at the top of the page .... should have looked further :)
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In light of the problem of lack of entries for the 2013 Post Classic MX Champs I thought I'd start this thread
I think we need to break this issue down into the following categories (feel free to add what you think I have missed).
This is all stuff quickly off the top of my head, I know you all will have some great ideas, if anyone wants to bitch, start your own thread ;-)
Cost
Effort
Support
Advertising
MA
Races
Classes
Age
Prize money / awards
COST
* Number of days racing.
* Entry fees.
* Accommodation at event.
* Distance travelled to the event.
EFFORT
* Getting bike scrutineered.
* Washing bikes at event.
* Size of paddock.
* Closed paddock?
SUPPORT
* Need for assistance by a pit crew.
* Pit boarding area.
* Entry closing date, a period is needed to structure classes.
ADVERTISING
* Sending out printable & emailable promo posters & entry-forms.
* National club register for mail-outs.
* Bike shop (VMX friendly) register for poster & entry-form mail-outs.
MA
Now this could get me in some grief, maybe vmx'ers could look at running outside of MA, could it save the costs of permits & complying with class categories, all this would it make the event more rider friendly and lower the costs greatly?
RACES
* Length of races.
* Minimum entries or no-go.
CLASSES
* combining classes.
* Adding new classes (eg: Super Evo Pre 95?)
* Running non-comp classes, allowing recreation licence holders to ride.
AGE
* Set the eligable machine for age racing by numbers, eg: Keep upping the accepted year models until the field is substantial? If you have to allow modern bikes to get a good field of 60 - 70 year olds so be it.
PRIZE MONEY / AWARDS
* Certificates that can be scanned, laminated, board mounted.
* Not many riders have ever raced for prize money.
* Do not let presentation eat into riding time.
I think it is time to think outside the square and make events as easy, low cost & fun to do, what worked in the past will not work in the future. Maybe this thread will give some constructive ideas to clubs thinking about running events?
Having a dam good commitee,that works well together and has a fair delegator within its executive postions.
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works outside the forum ;)
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Three months on and they sky hasn't fallen.
Great event for the show and shine outside Suttos shop in NSW and this weekend Freaky is down in Port Augusta SA along with many VMX bikes for a big promotion and introduction for the 2014 Classic Championships.
keep the wheels turning people 8)
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IMO one of the biggest problems for people new to VMX is getting them past the MA bullshit. MA continue to raise fee's and what may seem cheap to some is expensive for others. One day license and other costs can see a newbie up for $150.00 plus just for fun club day.
Heaven's great Saturday arvo ride has now been raised up to $70.00 thanks to MA and can seem allot to just ride a few laps in a paddock to a newbie.
The sooner MA gets some competition the better.
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With 170+ riders entered for the Conondale Classic the only problem I can see with VMX is too many punters from the southern states spending all their time on here reinventing the wheel instead of turning up to race and supporting VMX in their state!
Qld and WA couldn't be healthier.
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Come on Slakey lets not dig at MA, its Sunday ;D
Some would spend that at the pub on a Friday night easy :D
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From what I saw at Buladelah I believe that there's some good work being done in NSW and that the sport is undergoing a HEAVEN led resurgence. There's still a long way to go until we can get back to the days in the 90's when NSW VMX set the standards but it's all positive. This state needs for the Kumagutza Classic Nats to be a rousing success, if only to inject some much needed confidence back into the sport.
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Does VMX need a refresh? Seems ok to me. 2012 Classic Nats a record entry with championship status for every bike class, Connondale Classic next weekend with 180 entries, 2014 Post Classic Nats in Qld in the first half of the year and Classic Nats in SA in the latter half.
Just need to get behind this years DT at Temora and Classic MX at Canberra and it's all good.
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are the classic Nats back at Crystal Brook next year.....................................................please?
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No but I understand not far from there. Talk to Freaky.
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Does VMX need a refresh? Seems ok to me. 2012 Classic Nats a record entry with championship status for every bike class, Connondale Classic next weekend with 180 entries, 2014 Post Classic Nats in Qld in the first half of the year and Classic Nats in SA in the latter half.
Just need to get behind this years DT at Temora and Classic MX at Canberra and it's all good.
We need to ask the riders why the Post Classics failed this year. I considered entering but didn't for several reasons.
1. The track:- I don't want to ride modern tracks.
2. Cost:- With the meeting being over three days Friday to Saturday the lost income (I work Thursday to Sunday) and accommondation costs just didn't make viable.
How many other riders were the same.
With QVMX running a Club Championship round at Echo Valley this year I hope the track is changed enough. Echo Valley isn't the track it was. Even Conondale is going down that track too.
I also think we need to ensure VMX (Vintage Motocross) is a family sport. What is wrong with having a Pre 90 class for Juniors on 80/85cc machines.
Kevin
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Opportunity knocks for Aussie East Coast VMX
Troy Bayliss Events launch
July 31, 2013
Three-time World Superbike Champion Troy Bayliss today revealed plans to stage two of Australia's largest motorcycle exhibitions in Brisbane and Melbourne in 2014.
MOTO EXPO Brisbane will be held at Brisbane’s RNA Showgrounds on March 21-23 followed by MOTO EXPO Melbourne, which will be held at Melbourne Showgrounds on November 28-30, 2014.
MOTO EXPO Brisbane will feature over 100 exhibitors showcasing the largest range of motorcycles, scooters, ATV’s and UTV's as well as custom, vintage and classic bike displays. Visitors can see product launches, meet special guests and watch live demonstrations across the three days of the event.
"MOTO EXPO is a new and fresh approach to motorcycle exhibitions,” Bayliss said. “We have been working hard to create the perfect blend to showcase the motorcycle industry products and services, to enthusiasts and the wider community.
"Both the Brisbane and Melbourne Showgrounds offer newly renovated exhibition buildings and allow the exhibition to expand outdoors.
“The shows will come to life with test rides, safety demonstrations and racing. It is all there to create a great day out for the whole family," Bayliss explained.
The Brisbane event will also stage a superstars of motorcycling feature event – The 'Baylisstic Scramble' Dirt Track Teams challenge.
The Baylisstic Scramble feature event will take place on Saturday evening and entry into the show will grant access to the 20,000 seat stadium. Five teams of four riders will compete for points across many races to determine the team champions.
A full list of riders will be announced in coming months but visitors can expect to see some of Australia's most successful motorcycle athletes past and present competing along with support races that include, classic and vintage bikes, ATV, side by sides (UTV), mini moto, Freestyle Moto X, Trials and more.
“To compliment MOTO EXPO Brisbane we are bringing such a special competitive motorcycle event to the heart of Brisbane city which is going to be phenomenal,” Bayliss continued.
"The list of special guest riders competing are world class and I always look forward to dirt flat track racing, it's where it all began for me and many other riders, its bar to bar action.”
With the floor plan recently released, motorcycle manufacturers have thrown their support behind the innovative new event. KTM, Yamaha, BMW, Triumph, Ducati, Hyosung, Vespa/Piaggio and Arctic Cat are all confirmed with many more expected to sanction their attendance in the coming weeks.
Visitors to MOTO EXPO on Friday and Sunday won’t miss out on the Baylisstic Scramble action with special guest riders to participate in Friday practice sessions and demonstration races on the Sunday.
A huge entertainment program featuring freestyle motocross, freestyle trials and streetbike stunts will run over the three days of the event and for the kids, a special come and try zone will be created giving them the chance to get their first taste of motorcycle riding in a safe environment.
For further information visit troybaylissevents.com or follow us on Facebook
For exhibitor information please contact Mark Petersen [email protected]