OzVMX Forum

Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: Marc.com on April 02, 2013, 06:54:52 am

Title: Another trick DR400
Post by: Marc.com on April 02, 2013, 06:54:52 am
Anyone maybe Cloggy know the pedigree of this bit of DR trickeree

Just found a couple of decent barrels in the back of my shed so almost have enough bits for a rebuild ;D pity 420cc piston is not about anymore

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/Farleigh2520001_zps42a2b29a.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: SON on April 02, 2013, 07:04:44 am
Curtis, but since it is a forum members bike he should be allowed to post its story,
Lovely bike just needs a RN/RH or TM Tank.
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 03, 2013, 09:51:37 pm
77 RM125 tank has been tested and will go on. :)

Currently working on replacing the YZ490 fork for something pre 80 era, the modern WP's (that fitted right on my Maico 490  ;D ) for a set of old Ohlins I think.

I have ordered new 70's look plastics, and will make some new sidecovers etc.

I settled on the look it currently have, with sidecovers instad of the "numberplaterearfender" many Curtis' use....

And a kickstarter that actually fits the bike! According to my knee the one on it is a piece if sh.t!
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 03, 2013, 09:59:31 pm
But, I'm having trouble making it run properly, just fires a couple of strokes and choughs out, sometimes it idles 20-30 seconds before it choughs out. Stops if I touch the throttle.
I think it's an ignition problem, the points sparks heavily while running, and the spark on the plug is weak, so I ordered a new condenser...

But, can someone tell me if the electronic ignition from a DR/SP400 will fit the SP370 engine that's in it??
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: Marc.com on April 04, 2013, 05:33:52 am
Hey Ola, you are starting to get quite a herd of 4 stroke specials  :D Seems like Curtis fitted every motor going to the HL 500 frame.

Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 04, 2013, 06:30:43 am
You know Brian Curtis made all the NVT HL frames?

He made his own version with Honda XL500, I've read about 25pcs. He made 3 with Yamaha XT, wich actually was quite different from the HL frame although about the same design.
And this one-off, wich is based on the Hondaframe, but the whole frame is shorter to fit nice and tight around the Suki engine.

Got a CheneyXT, CheneyXL, the HLreplica and this one now, so the "British specialframe wit trailbikeengine" collection is coming along nicely ;)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: Marc.com on April 04, 2013, 09:25:33 am
You know Brian Curtis made all the NVT HL frames?

Maybe they should be called Curtis replicas  ;), so is the JBR Honda based on the Curtis Honda ?
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 04, 2013, 04:26:19 pm
Nope, they're CCM's with Hondaengines.
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: firko on April 04, 2013, 05:18:55 pm
Quote
Nope, they're CCM's with Hondaengines.
I always thought that Eric Cheney built the JBR frames so I've learned something. ;D That's a nice Suzuki Martin. Really nice 8)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 04, 2013, 06:01:50 pm
Guess it's a compliment to be able to tell Firko something VMX he didn't already know... :D

In fear of making this a Hondathread in the Suki section....

Curtis Honda:
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/CURTIS1_zpsa253ea95.jpg)

JBR:
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/JBR1_zps2f0af093.jpg)

CCM:
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/CCM1-1_zps8bcd5c5d.jpg)

And finally, Simon's (Cheney) version:
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/T2eC16JQE9s3HEE8GBREW4n7U4w60_12_zpsa1736fb5.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: oldfart on April 04, 2013, 06:17:21 pm
I just don't get it ..... why they didn't go the extra distance to make an airbox ??? The pods may have work well, but the bike looks unfinished in my eyes.
 
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 04, 2013, 06:26:47 pm
But, I'm having trouble making it run properly, just fires a couple of strokes and choughs out, sometimes it idles 20-30 seconds before it choughs out. Stops if I touch the throttle.
I think it's an ignition problem, the points sparks heavily while running, and the spark on the plug is weak, so I ordered a new condenser...

But, can someone tell me if the electronic ignition from a DR/SP400 will fit the SP370 engine that's in it??

Please don't forget this... ;)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: oldfart on April 04, 2013, 06:38:02 pm
 Will check it out tommorow .....I'm sure I have one that has been covered  ;) 
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: cloggy on April 04, 2013, 06:58:36 pm
 No It won't.The flywheel is totally different on the 400 and all the electronics are attached to the outer cover, save the CDI. There's not a lot the same on the 400, it's a beefed up engine. I don't know if the timing side shaft is identical. If it were you might be able to fit the flywheel and side cover, but I doubt it. The 370 was supposed to be the peppier motor, just not as tough.
 You sure it isn't running super rich or lean straight off idle? I'd change the points too.
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 04, 2013, 07:12:27 pm
Thanks, I've ordered the points too.

It feels rich, won't go with choke or startgas-spray at all, but I just feel the spark is weak. have tried to file and adjust the points, and changed to some condenser I had lying around (new, but I don't know condition), and it helped for about 30 seconds...
 
Mabe I should go through the carb, mikuni 36, to see if somethings wrong/clogged, but I'm told it was running and starting ok so I think the jetting should be ok.
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: firko on April 04, 2013, 09:57:50 pm
Quote
Guess it's a compliment to be able to tell Firko something VMX he didn't already know...
Thanks for the nice words Martin but the older I get, the less I know. I should have figured the John Banks/CCM connection but it never occured to me.....or if it had I'd forgotten ::).
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: Marc.com on April 05, 2013, 05:45:45 am
I just don't get it ..... why they didn't go the extra distance to make an airbox ??? The pods may have work well, but the bike looks unfinished in my eyes.

Fully agree most specials fall down in the carb, airbox and side cover department. Is it the point where people start to lose interest?. Even the attempt on my Cheney is woeful, just flat bit of foam on alloy plate.

Anyways GMC does a good one to fit the HL frame.

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/KR5005.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: Marc.com on April 05, 2013, 05:51:25 am
this is the Cheney JBR effort, guess you have to stuff a battery in there some place. But you have to love my coil bracket  ;D

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/IMG_3482.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 05, 2013, 06:58:10 am
The Curtis have a special airbox originally, a bit like the GMC HL one only bigger, but no sidecovers.
I think the Ccm/jbr have fiberglass boxes also.

I swapped the whole points/condenser plate on mine for a XT500 one, wich is the same, and it worked perfect  ;D
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 05, 2013, 07:00:15 am
Your coilbracket is great, I'm gonna copy it on my Cheney XT ;)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: firko on April 05, 2013, 11:11:19 am
Quote
so is the JBR Honda based on the Curtis Honda  
Quote
this is the Cheney JBR effort,
Now I'm confused, am I now correct in thinking that there are two distinctly different JBR frames? The Cheney BSA powered product and the CCM built Honda jobby? I think I get it now ::). Maybe, sort of. ;D
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: steve234 on April 05, 2013, 11:21:52 am
I just don't get it ..... why they didn't go the extra distance to make an airbox ??? The pods may have work well, but the bike looks unfinished in my eyes.

Fully agree most specials fall down in the carb, airbox and side cover department. Is it the point where people start to lose interest?. Even the attempt on my Cheney is woeful, just flat bit of foam on alloy plate.

Anyways GMC does a good one to fit the HL frame.

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/KR5005.jpg)

I had the opportunity to buy one of these frames a few years ago....wish I did now!
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: firko on April 05, 2013, 11:31:54 am
                                                               (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/KR5005_zps8f297b32.jpg)

The above photo is of the Kenny Roberts KR framed TT that I covered for VMX in issue #44.
                                                              (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/KR20500_zps0c377b5a.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: firko on April 05, 2013, 11:40:03 am
I realise that we've moved a little from DR400 Suzukis but I couldn't let this framefest go by without posting an example of one of my beloved Hindalls, this one the late Bob Neilson's bike that had been Harry Hindalls personal ride. Sure the suspension and geometry might be tad primitive compared to C&J, JBR et al but remember that it was built in 1975.
                                                        (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/hindallTT2-1_zps6cc7087c.jpg)
                                                        (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/hindallttYamaha-1_zps05c537d7.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: steve234 on April 05, 2013, 02:28:22 pm
                                                              (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/KR5005_zps8f297b32.jpg)

The above photo is of the Kenny Roberts KR framed TT that I covered for VMX in issue #44.
                                                              (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/KR20500_zps0c377b5a.jpg)

I know! What was I thinking  >:(
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: Marc.com on April 05, 2013, 02:53:09 pm
Now I'm confused, am I now correct in thinking that there are two distinctly different JBR frames? The Cheney BSA powered product and the CCM built Honda jobby? I think I get it now ::). Maybe, sort of. ;D

Not the least bit confusing, Cheney built a BSA frame for John Banks and called it the John Banks Replica, so my bike is stamped JBR 75, then John Banks had CCM supply frames for the Honda powered John Banks Replicas and we are a bit like the HL situation, will the real JBR please stand up.

I think the Kenny Roberts TT500 is totally cool for those with a trick framed TT500 fetish..... looks kinda cool and has KR name value, but engineering looks a bit of train wreck with the large diameter front down tube and carb hanging like the nose of the Concorde

Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: bazza on April 05, 2013, 02:59:26 pm
Marc the KR one looks like it was built in dunedin at the railway yards.
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: John Orchard on April 05, 2013, 03:17:03 pm
Sorry to get even further off-track, were there any trick frame combo's for the 4-valve TT600 engine?  Now that would excite me a little more  :-)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 05, 2013, 06:09:57 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but,

First John rode for BSA.

Then early 70's he rode for Cheney, with BSA engines, wich in 1973 resulted in this: Cheney John Banks Replica (JBR)
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/JBR_zpsb9385a6d.jpg)

Then went to CCM in 1974.

Then made his own bike, with help from racecarbuilders Merlin, with XL350 based engine, the Merlin John Banks Motorcycles (JBM)
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/john20banks20honda201980_zpsfc9ebefd.jpg)

Then got the XL500 (600cc) factory Honda engine, and put it in a late 70's (mabe-80?) CCM, the JBR.
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/JBR1_zps2f0af093.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 05, 2013, 06:22:40 pm
this is the Cheney JBR effort, guess you have to stuff a battery in there some place. But you have to love my coil bracket  ;D

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/IMG_3482.jpg)

Marc, I have a different opinion on your bike..... :)

The Cheney John Banks Replica wich came in 1973 had the swingarmpivot behind the frametube, as the blue and orange bike in the picture above...

The Cheney Bengt Aaberg replica wich came in 1974 had the swingarmpivot in center of the frametubes, but the swing formed as a fork, going on both sides of the frametube.
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/407342_353540508003845_100000436975855_1245668_1961857051_n_zpsdbbe9eb5.jpg)

Your frame is very different to those bikes.

Yours is like my 75/76 Cheney Yamaha, wich is the very first version.
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/IMG_0510_zps82a72760.jpg)

So yours must be one of the very last BSA's, with earlyest possible model beeing 1975.

My opinion anyway..
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on April 05, 2013, 06:34:07 pm
Just like this:
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/THIS_zps400ca2de.jpg)

And my airfilterholder is just like yours, but it originally should have a round paperfilter screwed on, like a early Husqvarna. 
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: firko on April 07, 2013, 02:54:55 pm
So.....I was one third right with my Eric built JBR ;D. I'd forgotten all about those Merlin JBM's. I remember thinking that they were the coolest looking things on the planet but my tastes seem to have done a 180 deg turn.......they look a bit garish to my older and more conservative eyes today. 8)
Sorry, another thread hijack :-[

The below listing appeared on Marks Swapmeet this morning. The frame looks familiar but I can't quite bring it forward into my frontal lobes. The geometry looks as primitive as the Hindall but like the Hindall we have to remember that they were built in the early days of the suspension revolution.It looks a bit RM Suzuki A/B ish, especially the rear subframe area.


                                                            (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/15497344-16200-large_zps024a9989.jpg)
                                                                      http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=S3peVWEvTjs59tdS&w=3 (http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=S3peVWEvTjs59tdS&w=3)
PARTS IDENTIFICATION
Ad # 3214265 April 6, 2013
 
Just got this tt500 in a custom frame has CT 06 76 frame # on headstock any ideas on the frame maker?
Thanks
     Paul Gaskin
San jose, CA
Phone: 916-220-4908 | Email

 
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: Marc.com on April 08, 2013, 07:07:03 am
Just like this:

I agree Ola it is one of the alst of the BSA engined Cheney's with more in common with the Yamaha one than the 73 BSA, I just put it down to evolution. It is factory stamped JBR 75, so who knows, maybe Eric was going to build a Banks rep before John ended up doing the CCM thing.

I have a plastic tank I use on it as looks cool, looks a bit like the later CCMs.

B50MX tank looks good with color match to the original anodising for that traditional look.


(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/IMG_3485.jpg)
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/IMAG0095.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: firko on April 08, 2013, 01:25:43 pm
Jonesy's C&J CCM580 during its dummy build. The frame's now a more tasteful silver.
                                                   (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/P1010015_zps4417c151.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: Marc.com on April 08, 2013, 02:23:54 pm
[quote author=John Orchard link=topic=28521.msg278974#msg278974
Sorry to get even further off-track, were there any trick frame combo's for the 4-valve TT600 engine?  Now that would excite me a little more  :-)
[/quote]

Yeah the 4 valve TT motor is a real shit kicker, but I guess the TT600 had a good rolling chassis and suspension already and there was not that much to be gained with tricky frame given the weight of the donk.
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on January 31, 2014, 02:10:13 am
One for you Marc

(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/4V_zps2446450a.jpg)

I know nothing more...
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: SON on January 31, 2014, 03:04:50 am
I have always thought if CCM had used Japanese engines in the 70's they would have sold so many bikes
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on January 31, 2014, 04:27:31 am
They did, the JBR Honda, but I guess it was way to expencive to be a big seller...
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: flower pot racing on January 31, 2014, 11:16:54 am
Bike 515 isn't a Cheney JBR (MKV on the frame), but looks like it with the colour scheme.  I am pretty sure  Cheney JBR has the foot pegs mounted on the case, not on the frame.  With the pegs on the frame it may be  a MKIV.  Beautiful all the same.

A friend has two Merlins and the plan is to have them ready for Farleigh this summer..... 
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on January 31, 2014, 06:50:57 pm
Ok, thanks Ben, I didn't know there was a model between the JBR and Aaberg... :)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: SON on January 31, 2014, 09:12:02 pm
They did, the JBR Honda, but I guess it was way to expencive to be a big seller...
I was thinking a range like XL125/185 XL250 XL350/440.
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on February 03, 2014, 09:29:29 pm
And one more for you Marc.
Cheney Yamaha 600 4V

(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/IMG_0359_zps3d5966cc.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: Davey Crocket on February 03, 2014, 11:12:23 pm
That's fugly.....why would you make a Yamaha look like a Honda?
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: 80-85 husky on February 05, 2014, 05:23:29 pm
did you fix the bike?????
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: ola_martin on February 05, 2014, 06:48:50 pm
My Curtis??

If so, yes, it was a faulty condensator with the points, and the new one I had had lying around for ages didn't work either, so it had me fooled for a while.
I bought new original parts and everything worked perfect. :)

Looks like this now

(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/CurtisSuzuki1_zps7704bc0f.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: Mick D on February 05, 2014, 06:54:21 pm
That is out standing Ola-Martin  8)
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/CurtisSuzuki1_zps7704bc0f.jpg)
Title: Re: Another trick DR400
Post by: 80-85 husky on February 07, 2014, 02:10:44 pm
Exelent beast of whirdom....