OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vintage Track => Topic started by: Curly3 on March 13, 2013, 05:55:35 pm
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Now that we have a split I feel there is a need for a whole new Slider class.
Classic Slider class is basically for early 2 Valve engines so my thinking is for an early upright 4 Valve class that would fit into the Post Classic program.
Yes I know the split was only just last year and there is still a grey area on whether our title meetings are run as stand alone or together.
Thoughts?
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More sliders the better .
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Totally agree, how'd Jnr go?
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At last nights Penrith Club's meeting we gained another new member rider from way back who has just got hold of a Godden dirt track slider and is keen to get back amongst the action!
WAHOO!
cheers
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No name Punchy?
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slides i think you have missed the boat on rule changes this year but it will give you 12months to nut it out. as punchy know`s the slider class in the moms is a mess doesn`t reflect what is out there.
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Yeah Mick, I should've pointed out that we are discussing rule changes for 2014 at the moment.
Can anyone put a date on when Leading Link Forks came in as a standard component on Slider frames, pre or post 1990?
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i reckon its post 1990 as i was still riding post 90 and cannot remember seeing any in early 90's
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Two of the new Penrith members this year are ex Villawood riders, My friend Hal Pickering (rebuilding a '72 Ossa), and his friend John Testory (not sure of the spelling).
John has just aquired a Godden slider in need of work.
Cheers, PANCHO
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probally no reason given DT tends to run all eras you cant add an evo class ( 4 valve upright - non link) to the current rules and little or no impact to the event timetable, but there would be a lot of short circuit bikes out there to fill that period 76-90 potentially
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Have a 77 centre port Godden with a mk1 wessie nearly ready to roll. Just a clutch and ignition system to complete. Unfortunately unable to do HBB or Nats this year but that will allow me some time to get it fully sorted. Next is a big gun Hagon Jap. Ex Bergmier 600cc side ad jap motor in a Hagon frame if I can workout how to stop the valve covers touching the tank!
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rosco
use a short laydown tank they are cut off to allow air filter and carby underneath
jim
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Hey Pancho, any chance the guys name that has just got the Godden is John Testorie. If it is the bloke I am thinking of he used to and probably still does live out Rossmore way.
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Thanks Jim I'll have to trim the rear tank mount, which I hate because I like to leave things looking original. Have a couple of narrow alloy tanks and going to see if I can push them further up the headstock and then re tack the rear mount to get a bees dicks clearance. Looking forward to building it as I did one for a mate quite a while back, came up a treat, then he just upped and sold it without it firing a shot in anger. Didn't even think to offer it to me first, not much of a mate!
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Keep it as simple as possible....call it Classic Upright Slider class and make it eligible to all upright engined sliders with no leading link front ends. Simple enough for even the dumbest of the dumb to understand. Keep the 2v class as a pre 75 only class, no centre port frames and leading link front ends, basically as it's always been. If you start trying to work out year specific cutoff eras you'll open a can of worms (not pun intended Trev). There'll always be engines that will be deemed as uncompetitive but that's far better than continuous argument over when the first GM came out or whether an 892 Jawa should be in the same class as an 895. All Goddens, Weslakes, Jawas, GM's and 4V conversions on 2V Jawas all in the same mixing pot.
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firko
no c/port frames so all late weslakes are out all 4 valve jawas are out after the dohc. all gms are out, and most goddens,c/port frames came out in the 80s. they are pre85 as the rules stand.must have a cut off date as most upright motors can be converted to laydown and i thing the laydowns can be made to run upright.
pre1978 and pre 1990 would be 2 great classes.i have seen 2v beat 4v bikes it comes down to the rider.
you can ride them in the year class any way so realy why do we need a special race for sliders.
my antig is pre70 my bellini is pre78
just my 5 cents worth
jim
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Just regarding the leading link fork discussion. There is a 1985 Godden in the bathurst national motor racing museum ridden by Chris Watson with leading link forks ?
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Jim, I'm talking POST Classic Slider class up to and including pre90, centre port, upright 4 Valve Engines should all be in.
Leading Link will be in for 2014 but I'm still sceptical when they did hit the scene.
As far as I'm concerned the Classic Slider class should include engines like the early Weslakes and all of the 4 Valve conversions, along with the venerable JAP & JAWA 2 Valver's.
By the way, I still don't have a copy of the 2013 MOM's.
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i do you can come over and look at it if you want
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You should have got it by now Steve, mine came in the post last week. Is your licence still current?
Cheers
Shaun
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no c/port frames so all late weslakes are out all 4 valve jawas are out after the dohc. all gms are out, and most goddens,c/port frames came out in the 80s. they are pre85 as the rules stand.must have a cut off date as most upright motors can be converted to laydown and i thing the laydowns can be made to run upright.
pre1978 and pre 1990 would be 2 great classes.i have seen 2v beat 4v bikes it comes down to the rider.
you can ride them in the year class any way so realy why do we need a special race for sliders.
my antig is pre70 my bellini is pre78
just my 5 cents worth
I mean for the 2V class Jim.
Leading Link will be in for 2014 but I'm still sceptical when they did hit the scene.
As far as I'm concerned the Classic Slider class should include engines like the early Weslakes and all of the 4 Valve conversions, along with the venerable JAP & JAWA 2 Valver's.
By the way, I still don't have a copy of the 2013 MOM's.
The easiest way to get rid of 2V Jawas and JAPS from the sport all together is to lump them in with the 4V bikes. The 2V class should remain in the same way as the pre 65 and pre 60 classes have been maintained in VMX. These bikes need to be encouraged to compete by having them in their own category. Imagine how long the old Brit stuff would last in the sport if their classes were merged with later classes.....it's the same with 2V sliders. More has to be done to encourage them to return. There are shitloads of them out there, their owners just have to be convinced that it's worth bringing them out again. You'll possibly find that many of the 4V Post Classic class guys own 2 Valves as well so by keeping the class they'll more than likely bring both bikes if only for the extra ride.
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POST, POST, POST, I forgot the most important word in my previous comment.
Sorry for the the confusion. I meant I couldn't see a problem with someone on a Jap or 2V Jawa having a ride at the Post Classic Titles.
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I just wonder where the 2V OHC TT and XT 500 powered sliders like mine and Wally's fit in ?? With the 4Vs I suppose??
Foss
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Foss,
I reckon the Yammy should be in with the 2v JAPS and 2v Jawas.
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I agree as well Mark, when the MOM's come up for debate again next year I'll be lobbying for them to be incuded in with the 2 Valve Jap's N Jawa's.
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The situation with the 2V Yamaha XT/TT engine was a hot topic back in the early days of classic dirt track. Remembering that all classic dirt track was pre 75 at the time, the 2Valve class being an exception to the year cutoff, the only stipulations being two valve pushrod engines and no later Godden style centre port frames. Because the XT/TT Yamaha wasn't released prior to 1975 and that the engine is OHC, the Yamaha was excluded. On behalf of racer Chris Ellis I lobbied Penrith Club and MA to allow the Yamaha engine into the 2V class using the criteria that because they were based on a street engine they wouldn't be competitive. Reluctantly Penrith officials let Chris ride in the 2V class not imagining that he'd have any chance on his Elstar Yamaha against the likes of Phil Hearne, Glen McDonald, Jonesy and many more quick guys. In those days up to 20 sliders and sometimes more raced in the 2V class and it shocked everyone when Chris wasn't only competitive on the bike, he whooped everyone and won the meeting. After that there was a huge foo foo raw over the bike being ilegal so he was never allowed to bring it back again. Ironically he was allowed to race it at the annual Condo meeting and one of the most memorable moments of the very last Condo is of Chris fighting it out with Gary O'Brien for the big trophy of the meeting. Gary won but that old trailbike engine was right up his left elbow the whole time. Both Chris and Gary retired straight after and they still both talk fondly of that meeting and especially the final.
Now that times have moved on including Chris who's retired to South Australia and building a replica HL using his motor, why not add the sentence that I lobbied for years ago to the 2V rules.....Engines must be 2V pushrod operation with the exception of trail bike originating 2V OHC engines such as Yamaha XT/TT. As I said in 1995, it's a cheap, entry level way into the slider class for those who can't afford the exotic speedway based engines.
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Yep, my Hagon Yammy got protested by Kevin Horton at Goulburn in 1994, before the meeting started, I told 'em I was gunna race anyway, and didn't give a damn about the piece of plastic, just exclude me from the results, I said !! I was right on his back wheel at times, there wasn't enough straight to go by him on the KX 450, still grinnin" !!, broke an engine plate, I was trying that hard.
On a more serious level, in a couple of years , when I'm a Super Senior, my bike isn't legal for that either ???, Pre 75 dontcha know, well, I've always been out of the square a bit anyway, so I should be used to it ::)
Foss
Oh yeah, the Hagon motor isn't a biggun, still std bore, the Gally is 540, hmmm, I wonder where I'd get another 90mm piston ?
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Hey Pancho, any chance the guys name that has just got the Godden is John Testorie. If it is the bloke I am thinking of he used to and probably still does live out Rossmore way.
I Think that's the gentleman in question C M
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I just wonder where the 2V OHC TT and XT 500 powered sliders like mine and Wally's fit in ?? With the 4Vs I suppose??
Foss
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What about some early slider specials such as the KSS Velo O.H.C bored out to 500 in a slider frame that I saw at the Nepean two-day meeting a few years ago? Should that be excluded if it turns up one day ready to race?
Velo KSS was well and truly pre 75
pancho
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Don't know if I should wade into this quagmire but ,.....here goes.
Sliders pre 1980 2v and 4v upright motors because thats what we had,... up to 500cc
Sliders 1980 to 1990 upright motors up to 500cc.
Sliders with laydown motors can go play elsewhere :D
Sliders with big bore 2 strokes welcome up to 500cc as long as they meet the date criteria
Now to sort out the 125 and 250 classes.
regards Mark
ps. I'm going to be sorry I got into this ;)
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I 've been giving this some more thought and I would hate to be a scrutinneer.
Unless you have an intimate knowledge of these machines you are up shit creek.
Example 1:-A 1984 Mk 4 Godden has the same frame as a 1974 model. Put the
'84 motor in '74 frame then what? Or a JAP in in the '84 frame!!
Example 2:- Does anybody know the differance between a mk 1,mk2,mk3 Hagon frame?
They cover about 20 yrs. Mid '60's and on. Does anybody know the differance between
the Godden frames? Again mid '60' and on.
Example 3:-You can still buy a brand new 2 v pushrod Weslake motor , put it in a new
Antig Sandracer (Hagon) circa 2013 and race ,......what class??? The list goes on and on.
Maybe just 2v or 4v or just chuck em all in together ;)
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That's why I reckon chuck 2V in together and 4V in together for two distinct classes. Thinking about what fits what and when it was made does your head in. They're all based on the geometry of a late 20's Harley Pea Shooter anyway ::)
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Yup, Thats the one , Firko and Mark,
2 valvers, pushrod and OHC plus over 250 air-cooled 2T motors in one class,
Upright 4 Valvers, along with apropriate size, age ???, chookie motors in another class,
Plus an air-cooled up to 250 class
Bugger the years, specification based a'la Evo.
And, Mark, I think the new Antig Sandracer being a copy of the Hagon would be acceptable as it's an exact replica of the Mk 2 Hagon. I'd love to get me hands on one with a new Antig Wessie motor!!
Like you Mate , I wouldn't be a Scrutineer for quids !!
Foss
Just had a thought, what about the OHC 4V XL 250 Motorsport honda motors ? remember Glenn McDonald's one ? where would they fit in ?? those motors may be a bit thin on the ground.
Mate of mine has a 4V XT 550 in a Hagon Grasstracker, goes like shit off a chrome shovel !!, I must see what he's done with it !!, blown up when I last spoke to him.
Foss
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Just had a thought, what about the OHC 4V XL 250 Motorsport honda motors ? remember Glenn McDonald's one ? where would they fit in ?? those motors may be a bit thin on the ground
Because they're legal for pre 75 they fit into the 250 class or with the 350 the 500 class with the chooks. Glenn had a fast one but it wasn't as quick as Lloyd Richards little Elstar Honda from Wagga.
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Just had a thought, what about the OHC 4V XL 250 Motorsport honda motors ? remember Glenn McDonald's one ? where would they fit in ?? those motors may be a bit thin on the ground
Because they're legal for pre 75 they fit into the 250 class or with the 350 the 500 class with the chooks. Glenn had a fast one but it wasn't as quick as Lloyd Richards little Elstar Honda from Wagga.
Yeah, Firko I was just wondering where, in 2V / 4V Slider classes, would they fit ??, I know the obvious answer, but ???.
Mine is legal for it's year class, pre 78, but not legal for the Classic Slider class at the same meeting ::)
I WAS gunna give Cody a run in the Pre 90 Slider class on me Hagon TT at Temora as he was gunna ride the Glenn Gall XT in Pre 78.
Foss
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For the simple reason that they have four valves puts them in the 4V class. Unfortunatly if you make one exception you'll find that everyone would be on the scrutineers arse. Sometimes things fit, other times they don't, just like buying a pair of jocks.
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You're right Firko, as I said, the obvious, just thinking out loud as t'were and there wasn't that many around, even back then !!.
Foss
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Hopefully the split in classes will make it easier to change a few things but unfortunately we'll have to wait until submissions for changes are called again next year, being for the 2015 season.
Classic Sliders : Any 2 Valve 4 Stroke, or all 2 Stroke engine made before 1978.
Post Classic Sliders : All upright 4 Valve 4 Stroke engines, or any 2 Stroke engine made before 1990.
Obviuosly a bit more to it than that re frames but this is how I see it and will be pushing for.
There should be no problem with someone on a JAP rolling up to the Post Classic titles, they were still kicking arse on OZ DT well after 78, especially TH's 750.
Had the privilidge of meeting Chris Holder today for the first time and what a humble and shining example he is for the sport.
Go get em next week in UNZUD Chris.
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Yep Australia can be very proud of our World Champ.
Here he is getting down and dirty helping out a mate.
(http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu202/STG_23/CHatNepean_zps329f354e.jpg)
With TH and CH as mechanics Pitty's bike was soon running a whole lot better.
Only 4 more sleeps till we get on the plane to NZ can't F'n wait!!!
Go Chris and Go Darcy ;D ;D ;D
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Shame on you Shaun, you're forgetting the person who has more knowledge than the other 2 combined. :o :o :o
Bucket. ;)
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No mate he was there purely in a supervisory capacity ;D
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Oh yeah, he's good at that.
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Hey Steve, not good but brilliant
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You're the best " supervisor " I've ever seen, good luck with the op Ian, I'll give you a call later in the week.
Don't forget if the nurse asks for a speciman tell her she'll have to syphon it out, unless it's a male nurse of course. ;D